Is DPRK good or bad?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > Is DPRK good or bad?

Ace of Baes: Jul 7, 1977

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The US occupiers certainly figured the Nazis were good while they tried to set up our West German puppet government.

Complain about the North Korean government starving its own citizens all you like, but the United States is literally strangling the flow of food to them.

From the first page of the thread.

Ace of Baes posted:

Pro-DPRK ppl are dumbasses, is there anti-DPRK propaganda spread by the US and SK gov constantly? Yes. Is NK so hosed because of US scorched Earth policy during the Korean and trade isolation afterwards? Yes.

But NK is still a horrible fascist state with starving citizens and totalitarianism, if you go to SK you can find tons of ppl that have visited or formerly lived there and they'll tell you themselves lol

# ? Mar 25, 2017 02:01

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# ? Apr 20, 2024 08:13

gobbagool: Feb 5, 2016; by R. Guyovich; Doctor Rope

resar posted:

Conservative sausage man is mad at commies because his dad was a hippy beatnik.

Yes, I don't like totalitarians starving children because my dad was a hippy.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 02:08

Ace of Baes: Jul 7, 1977

The only thing DPRK apologists are good at is being a caricature of leftists that libs and conservatives can point to when they argue against Socialism/Marxism/Communism.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 02:14

Ace of Baes: Jul 7, 1977

Ace of Baes posted:

The only thing DPRK apologists are good at is being a caricature of leftists that libs and conservatives can point to when they argue against Socialism/Marxism/Communism.

Also see: L-M's and a large chunk of Anarchists.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 02:15

gobbagool: Feb 5, 2016; by R. Guyovich; Doctor Rope

Ace of Baes posted:

The only thing DPRK apologists are good at is being a caricature of leftists that libs and conservatives can point to when they argue against Socialism/Marxism/Communism.

And Borneo Jimmy is their spirit animal

# ? Mar 25, 2017 02:23

The_Politics_Man: Aug 25, 2015

gobbagool posted:

And Borneo Jimmy is their spirit animal

Pretty good song imo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Wy6beOqSM

Also what is with your oddly specific daddy issues?

The_Politics_Man has issued a correction as of 03:15 on Mar 25, 2017

# ? Mar 25, 2017 03:11

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Ace of Baes posted:

From the first page of the thread.

Nobody is disputing any of that, lmao.

gobbagool posted:

Yes, I don't like totalitarians starving children because my dad was a hippy.

Is that why you think it's ok for the US to starve children?

It's honestly infuriating to see people claim that criticism of US policy for worsening the situation in Korea is some form of apologia. The point is that we're Americans and not Koreans. It's our government that's doing everything it can to make it worse, but the general response is to say it's ok to starve their whole country because they shouldn't have nuclear weapons.

Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 03:23 on Mar 25, 2017

# ? Mar 25, 2017 03:20

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Is that why you think it's ok for the US to starve children?

We send north korear food all the time as tribute.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 03:22

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

spacetoaster posted:

We send north korear food all the time as tribute.

quote:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/report-sanctions-disrupt-humanitarian-aid-north-korea-46340596

The report issued this week by the U.N.'s senior resident official in Pyongyang said sanctions are inadvertently hindering legitimate operations on the ground and have indirectly contributed to a "radical decline" in donations it said are badly needed by millions of North Korean women and children.

It said "chronic food insecurity, early childhood malnutrition and nutrition insecurity" continue to be widespread in the North, which it noted ranked 98th out of 118 countries in the 2016 Global Hunger Index.

More than 10 million people � or about 41 percent of the North Korean population � are undernourished, it said.

To meet the "urgent needs of the most vulnerable," it called for $114 million in donations.

That could be a hard sell, no matter how dire the need.

Critics have long argued that aid to the North in effect serves to prop up the government by allowing it to focus more of its limited resources on building nuclear weapons, funding the country' million-man army or enriching the ruling elite, rather than spending on the segments of its population that are in the most need.

The report acknowledged such concerns have made getting donations increasingly difficult.

"The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is in the midst of a protracted, entrenched humanitarian situation largely forgotten or overlooked by the rest of the world," Tapan Mishra, who as resident coordinator in Pyongyang is responsible for U.N. development and other activities in the North, wrote in the report's introduction. "I appeal to donors not to let political considerations get in the way of providing continued support for humanitarian assistance and relief."

The report also noted sanctions are making it harder to conduct aid activities.

"While international sanctions imposed on DPRK clearly exempt humanitarian activities, they have unintentionally caused disruptions to humanitarian operations," it said.

In particular, it said the "regular disruption" of banking channels since 2013 has made it difficult or impossible to transfer funds into the country. It also cited the additional requirements for licenses and the time it takes to determine what is or is not a potential sanctions' violation as the cause of considerable delays that have forced agencies to "reprioritize" their aid activities.

The notion that a militarized garrison state like North Korea will somehow collapse if we cut off the flow of food to it is insane. They're just going to keep rationing subsistence calories to the masses, and those masses are never going to rise up and overthrow their government or do anything of the sort because they're probably too malnourished to even lift a rifle. It's punishing a whole people for the actions of a government which we claim is tyrannical, which is by definition a collective punishment. Doing this only reinforces their siege mentality and gives the North Korean government a claim to legitimacy in resisting the American imperialists. That's part of why they call the 90s famine the "arduous march." Their entire culture is militarized.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 03:29

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The notion that a militarized garrison state like North Korea will somehow collapse if we cut off the flow of food to it is insane. They're just going to keep rationing subsistence calories to the masses, and those masses are never going to rise up and overthrow their government or do anything of the sort because they're probably too malnourished to even lift a rifle. It's punishing a whole people for the actions of a government which we claim is tyrannical, which is by definition a collective punishment. Doing this only reinforces their siege mentality and gives the North Korean government a claim to legitimacy in resisting the American imperialists. That's part of why they call the 90s famine the "arduous march." Their entire culture is militarized.

So you're saying it's time for a "regime change"? :yeah:

I was in the invasion of Iraq in 03 and it was pretty boss.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 03:40

The_Politics_Man: Aug 25, 2015

spacetoaster posted:

So you're saying it's time for a "regime change"?

I was in the invasion of Iraq in 03 and it was pretty boss.

How did regime change in Iraq turn out?

# ? Mar 25, 2017 03:48

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

spacetoaster posted:

So you're saying it's time for a "regime change"?

I was in the invasion of Iraq in 03 and it was pretty boss.

If there's ever going to be a regime change it needs to be a domestic process, because illegitimate means will either reinforce the power of the Juche state, or you invade the country and get over a million people killed, which ultimately defeats the purpose.

When the people are no longer hungry, then they can start thinking about a life beyond Juche. The global community should be sending as much food as it can, not allow the United States to continue tightening the noose.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 03:50

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

resar posted:

How did regime change in Iraq turn out?

Looks like it sucks. Not my problem though. Got a medal. :thumbsup:

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

If there's ever going to be a regime change it needs to be a domestic process, because illegitimate means will either reinforce the power of the Juche state, or you invade the country and get over a million people killed, which ultimately defeats the purpose.

When the people are no longer hungry, then they can start thinking about a life beyond Juche. The global community should be sending as much food as it can, not allow the United States to continue tightening the noose.

You act as though an invasion would be about the people of north korea and not because they're doubling the number of nukes they have and are increasing the range of their missile capability yearly.

Heck, an invasion might not even involve the U.S. if they piss off/scare China/Russia/Japan enough.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 03:55

The_Politics_Man: Aug 25, 2015

spacetoaster posted:

You act as though an invasion would be about the people of north korea and not because they're doubling the number of nukes they have and are increasing the range of their missile capability yearly.

Heck, an invasion might not even involve the U.S. if they piss off/scare China/Russia/Japan enough.

Why would Russia and China care about NK having nukes? China uses NK as a buffer because they don't want an American ally on their border and Russia loves that NK periodically riles up the US drawing their focus from whatever Russia is doing that week.

ed: I forgot to add that absolutly no one wants to deal with the insane amount of ballistic missiles, chemical weapons and conventional artillery NK has pointed SK or the hordes of refugees in both NK and SK a war would cause.

The_Politics_Man has issued a correction as of 04:10 on Mar 25, 2017

# ? Mar 25, 2017 04:00

Man Musk: Jan 13, 2010

DPRK withdrew from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty so totes legal imo

# ? Mar 25, 2017 04:01

spacetoaster: Feb 10, 2014

resar posted:

Why would Russia and China care about NK having nukes? China uses NK as a buffer because they don't want an American ally on their border and Russia loves that NK periodically riles up the US drawing their focus from whatever Russia is doing that week.

I don't think it's all roses between north korea and china. China got right on board with U.N. sanctions and I'm pretty sure they don't like the north koreans kidnapping their people and ransoming them back.

Russia also supported those sanctions against north korea.

So I wouldn't be going as far as saying russia and china don't care about north korea's nukes.

Man Musk posted:

DPRK withdrew from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty so totes legal imo

Good point.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 04:09

R. Guyovich: Dec 25, 1991

dprk isn't starving and hasn't been since the 90s

http://apjjf.org/2014/12/18/Henri-Feron/4113/article.html

# ? Mar 25, 2017 04:54

Bro Dad: Mar 26, 2010

Its wrong to place sanctions on a fascist dictatorship who routinely threatens unleash a nuclear holocaust on all its neighbors

# ? Mar 25, 2017 05:45

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Setting aside all the other reasons we've gone over, sanctions just don't work.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 05:47

Jewel Repetition: Dec 24, 2012; Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.

I hate to be someone who says the truth is in the middle, but the truth probably is in the middle since the endpoints are "the US can do no wrong" and "anyone opposing the US can do no wrong."

# ? Mar 25, 2017 06:00

Bro Dad: Mar 26, 2010

Jeb! Repetition posted:

I hate to be someone who says the truth is in the middle, but the truth probably is in the middle since the endpoints are "the US can do no wrong" and "anyone opposing the US can do no wrong."

Nobody is arguing the former. This is just a honeypot thread for tankies who support death camps

# ? Mar 25, 2017 06:04

Jewel Repetition: Dec 24, 2012; Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.

Bro Dad posted:

Nobody is arguing the former. This is just a honeypot thread for tankies who support death camps

No one in this thread, but people who believe that definitely exist.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 06:14

Fiction: Apr 28, 2011

Bro Dad posted:

Its wrong to place sanctions on a fascist dictatorship who routinely threatens unleash a nuclear holocaust on all its neighbors

it is wrong to starve the people of a country because of the way their totalitarian government responds to our intense military provocation of them that we still do after slaughtering like a third of their population during the war.

# ? Mar 25, 2017 06:52

Fiction: Apr 28, 2011

Wow in this relationship between the most powerful country in the world and a pariah state these people are criticizing the country with all the power??? Crazy poo poo

# ? Mar 25, 2017 06:53

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 07:14 on Mar 25, 2017

# ? Mar 25, 2017 07:11

The_Politics_Man: Aug 25, 2015

has anyone said gin and juche yet?

# ? Mar 25, 2017 07:16

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

Fiction posted:

it is wrong to starve the people of a country because of the way their totalitarian government responds to our intense military provocation of them that we still do after slaughtering like a third of their population during the war.

*in a nasally insufferable dork voice* "actually"