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gobbagool posted:You know, i can almost see the sneer on your stupid face when you type things like this. What economic system actually works on it's merits, or for that matter, what system of human interaction works on merits versus "a nepotistic ring of interlocking elite network, access to specialized.... blah blah blah loving blah"? Certainly not any kind of communist government, or whatever fringe retarded marxist philosophy splinter group you angrily cling to. Socialists don't pretend that society isn't organized according to its social relations, dipshit.
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Mar 22, 2017 16:05
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Socialists don't pretend that society isn't organized according to its social relations, dipshit. So socialists are comfortable with nepotism and so on, thanks
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Mar 22, 2017 16:07
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gobbagool posted:So socialists are comfortable with nepotism and so on, thanks The difference being that socialists choose their own leaders, instead of having a leadership imposed upon them by alien groups. In capitalism you cannot choose your foreman, your manager, or even your boss.
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Mar 22, 2017 16:13
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The difference being that socialists choose their own leaders, instead of having a leadership imposed upon them by alien groups. In capitalism you cannot choose your foreman, your manager, or even your boss. Oh, my sweet summer child.
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Mar 22, 2017 16:17
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gobbagool posted:Oh, my sweet summer child. Don't talk about what you don't know.
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Mar 22, 2017 16:17
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gobbagool posted:You know, i can almost see the sneer on your stupid face when you type things like this. What economic system actually works on it's merits, or for that matter, what system of human interaction works on merits versus "a nepotistic ring of interlocking elite network, access to specialized.... blah blah blah loving blah"? Certainly not any kind of communist government, or whatever fringe retarded marxist philosophy splinter group you angrily cling to. That would be projection. Capitalism barely pretends to be a meritocracy in practice. Attend any job search program and they hammer in the point that most positions aren't advertised and require networking to access. That's the polite way of saying that success is based in nepotism.
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Mar 22, 2017 16:32
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gobbagool posted:You know, i can almost see the sneer on your stupid face when you type things like this. What economic system actually works on it's merits, or for that matter, what system of human interaction works on merits versus "a nepotistic ring of interlocking elite network, access to specialized.... blah blah blah loving blah"? Certainly not any kind of communist government, or whatever fringe retarded marxist philosophy splinter group you angrily cling to. lol you're right, voting, economics, and political discourse are horseshit. No political party has anything to offer and society is going no where fast. Get paid get laid. Oops I mean vote D because I like how their bullshit and happy talk tastes.
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Mar 22, 2017 16:37
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"Democrats: They'll at least give you a reacharound"
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Mar 22, 2017 16:42
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Don't talk about what you don't know. Or, you know, observe the world as it actually works versus what this super rad marxist comic book said it would be like once capitalism was vanquished once and for all. I mean it said it was going to happen any day now, I think the word they used was 'inevitable'. Since you're the resident super historian though, perhaps you can show an actual example of 'socialism' where it works like you imagine it to. Something bigger than your tree fort club, if you please.
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Mar 22, 2017 16:44
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Control Volume posted:"Democrats: They'll at least give you a reacharound" they'll promise you one, but instead give it to wall st and tell you that they had no choice
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Mar 22, 2017 16:44
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gobbagool posted:they'll promise you one, but instead give it to wall st and tell you that they had no choice lmao
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Mar 22, 2017 16:47
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gobbagool posted:I mean it said it was going to happen any day now, I think the word they used was 'inevitable'. Liberals sure are arrogant! Only death is inevitable! Greatness must be earned.
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Mar 22, 2017 16:50
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Mc Do Well posted:Liberals sure are arrogant! i cant remember now are you eripsa or the other one
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Mar 22, 2017 16:55
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I still can't comprehend people earnestly responding to gobbagool in multiple threads at this point it's usually the same people too! cut it out!
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Mar 22, 2017 17:03
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gobbagool posted:Or, you know, observe the world as it actually works versus what this super rad marxist comic book said it would be like once capitalism was vanquished once and for all. I mean it said it was going to happen any day now, I think the word they used was 'inevitable'. Since you're the resident super historian though, perhaps you can show an actual example of 'socialism' where it works like you imagine it to. Something bigger than your tree fort club, if you please. You've shopped at socialist enterprises before, my dude. Have you ever wondered what the "co-op" part of a co-op grocery store means?
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Mar 22, 2017 17:12
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Fullhouse posted:I still can't comprehend people earnestly responding to gobbagool in multiple threads at this point Yes, I have much work to do to achieve the lofty posting status of forums poster "fullhouse"
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Mar 22, 2017 17:20
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:You've shopped at socialist enterprises before, my dude. Have you ever wondered what the "co-op" part of a co-op grocery store means? if the co-op businesses i've been to are representative of 'socialist enterprise' then it's no wonder the USSR collapsed lmao
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Mar 22, 2017 17:21
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:You've shopped at socialist enterprises before, my dude. Have you ever wondered what the "co-op" part of a co-op grocery store means? Yeah, I shop at one on occassion, or used to before we moved. What's your point? that's a more wholesome or natural way of selling groceries?
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Mar 22, 2017 17:21
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Fallen Hamprince posted:if the co-op businesses i've been to are representative of 'socialist enterprise' then it's no wonder the USSR collapsed lmao no, you see, pener is here to tell us that we're in late stage capitalism and that the only way for us to be saved is by socialist grocery stores because they are spiritually pure, and that because it's good to make decisions through social networks rather than merit, or maybe not, he seems to be getting confused
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Mar 22, 2017 17:25
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gobbagool posted:Or, you know, observe the world as it actually works versus what this super rad marxist comic book said it would be like once capitalism was vanquished once and for all. I mean it said it was going to happen any day now, I think the word they used was 'inevitable'. Since you're the resident super historian though, perhaps you can show an actual example of 'socialism' where it works like you imagine it to. Something bigger than your tree fort club, if you please. Oh good the humans are all sociopaths argument. Really its just you.
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Mar 22, 2017 17:31
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So are Gobbagool and Painframe just dropping by to be avatars of exactly what the thread is about, or...
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Mar 22, 2017 17:32
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gobbagool posted:Yeah, I shop at one on occassion, or used to before we moved. What's your point? that's a more wholesome or natural way of selling groceries? Worker co-operatives are enterprises that are owned by its workers, who also engage in its management decisions. It's a completely different form of production compared to a capitalist firm, and there are co-operative enterprises in almost any industry. In a socialist economy, all businesses are run by their workers.
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Mar 22, 2017 17:33
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Crowsbeak posted:Oh good the humans are all sociopaths argument. Really its just you. huh? where did I say that? my point is that no system of human interaction is immune from interhuman relationships and influence. any system or philosophy that states otherwise is the most idiotic sort of contrarianism. For example: "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need" which is a swell idea but has never happened anywhere ever outside of pener's anime
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Mar 22, 2017 17:35
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gobbagool posted:huh? where did I say that? my point is that no system of human interaction is immune from interhuman relationships and influence. any system or philosophy that states otherwise is the most idiotic sort of contrarianism. For example: "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need" which is a swell idea but has never happened anywhere ever outside of pener's anime This whole tangent got started because you were offended by the claim that liberals believe in meritocracy..
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Mar 22, 2017 17:39
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gobbagool posted:huh? where did I say that? my point is that no system of human interaction is immune from interhuman relationships and influence. any system or philosophy that states otherwise is the most idiotic sort of contrarianism. For example: "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need" which is a swell idea but has never happened anywhere ever outside of pener's anime So wait now its dont try to fight bad poo poo because we'll always have bad poo poo.
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Mar 22, 2017 17:40
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gobbagool posted:huh? where did I say that? my point is that no system of human interaction is immune from interhuman relationships and influence. any system or philosophy that states otherwise is the most idiotic sort of contrarianism. For example: "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need" which is a swell idea but has never happened anywhere ever outside of pener's anime D&D is that way, duder.
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Mar 22, 2017 17:44
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:This whole tangent got started because you were offended by the claim that liberals believe in meritocracy.. Um, no, you said: Pener Kropoopkin posted:So I'll just add that liberals think capitalism works as a meritocracy rather than as a nepotistic ring of interlocking elite networks. to which I replied that every single system of human interaction is prone to nepotism and 'interlocking elite networks' I get that you're dumb but this isnt that complex.
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Mar 22, 2017 17:46
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Thoguh posted:D&D is that way, duder. yeah i think pener got lost looking for the tankie fanboy thread and ended up here
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Mar 22, 2017 17:47
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kill the poor. kill the rich. kill them all.
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Mar 22, 2017 17:48
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gobbagool posted:Or, you know, observe the world as it actually works versus what this super rad marxist comic book said it would be like once capitalism was vanquished once and for all. I mean it said it was going to happen any day now, I think the word they used was 'inevitable'. Since you're the resident super historian though, perhaps you can show an actual example of 'socialism' where it works like you imagine it to. Something bigger than your tree fort club, if you please. here, the USA, after you are sent to the gulag for posting crimes
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Mar 22, 2017 17:56
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gobbagool posted:yeah i think pener got lost looking for the tankie fanboy thread and ended up here When did be defend the destruction of Hungary in 1956?
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Mar 22, 2017 17:57
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Crowsbeak posted:When did be defend the destruction of Hungary in 1956? repeatedly and passionately until the guy working the drivethrough window at mcdonalds told him to stop
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Mar 22, 2017 17:59
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That DICK! posted:kill the poor. kill the rich. kill them all.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:09
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Universal health care works everywhere it's tried but for some reason it can't work in America because of some dumb bullshit that some D&D idiot explained to me
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Mar 22, 2017 18:17
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TrixRabbi posted:I think it's also important to look at the other side and recognize that part of the reason these rural communities flock to the Republicans is that, not only have the Democrats given them barely anything in the last 50 years to get excited about and that Dems can point to as proof of their benevolence, but the right-wing media are drat masters at manipulation, spin, and scapegoating. With their own complete lack of morals, outlets like Fox, Breitbart, Limbaugh, Infowars, they're not afraid to lie and scheme and carefully brainwash through an influx of dopamine and outrage to get what they want. Yeah, why couldn't Obama have made a simple change that solely benefited the poor, like massively expanding Medicaid eligibility? Or infrastructure spending as economic stimulus? The joke, of course, is that he did attempt both those things, among many other policies that would have helped poor whites, but both were blocked by both state and national Republicans in the name of their ideological opposition to government programs that help poor people. It's true that those groups' support for Dems dropped off about fifty years ago, particularly in the South...but that happens during the very height of LBJ's Great Society and his War on Poverty, when American poverty rates were dropping at unprecedented speeds (at least until Nixon dismantled key anti-poverty programs). The narrative of liberal elitists laughing at poor rural whites from afar while doing nothing to help them is certainly a common one, but it's hard to square that with the actual facts. On the other hand, it sure bears an uncanny resemblance to cultural resentment of Northeastern elites that the South has held since before the Civil War!
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Mar 22, 2017 18:20
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TrixRabbi posted:Another piece of it is that liberal trends, both culturally and politically, are driven from the media and personalities coming out of the major cities (mostly New York), meaning you have a group of influencers who have likely grown up upper or upper-middle class and urban, and who have been trained to look down on poor rural communities as hicks through decades of classism, media stereotypes, and insider Democrat groupthink. They themselves are a dangerously small group with immense power to alter the narrative, which is how you end up with insanity like Hamilton being the most important cultural moment of the year (that almost nobody has been able to actually see) and Lena Dunham being thought of as a valuable surrogate with a wide fanbase -- poo poo that could only come from the most insulated people with no sense for the outside world at all. I think this is a pretty good summary.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:21
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Main Paineframe posted:Yeah, why couldn't Obama have made a simple change that solely benefited the poor, like massively expanding Medicaid eligibility? Or infrastructure spending as economic stimulus? The joke, of course, is that he did attempt both those things, among many other policies that would have helped poor whites, but both were blocked by both state and national Republicans in the name of their ideological opposition to government programs that help poor people. Yeah, Obama was a decent dude overall for that. Liberals in general, though, like the ones that post in the Rural Poverty thread in D&D? They absolutely loving loathe poor rural whites.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:21
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gobbagool posted:Um, no, you said: That's not even germane to the point.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:24
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liberals hate poor people because they love capitalism. jesus said you cant serve two masters but liberals don't know this because they are all atheists.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:26
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the love of capitalism is why liberals feel the need to defend the ACA (a reform that strengthens capital) rather than putting energy toward what i brilliantly like to call "non-reformist reforms" such as medicare for all with death panels for capitalists.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:28
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