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Ignoring the history of it all is a mistake. The Clinton's centrism was a direct response to the Republican sweeps from Nixon to Bush Sr. Leftism was a losing prospect in the eyes of the public. They tried centrism, and it worked. They tried to pass left leaning legislation, and Gingrich destroyed it. Getting anything at all done, was only allowed at the behest of the Republicans. So Democrats compromised every which way to keep the country running. When Gore "lost," the tables turned. Suddenly you were a traitor if you stood against the President. Fox and the major networks would crucify you for even daring to not wear a flag pin. Eight years of non-stop "Decorum", "Respect the office!" and "Wartime unity!" Didn't take a single day for that to evaporate when Obama was sworn in. Suddenly, you can scream at the president and call him a liar, so long as he's a Democrat. Two years of filibusters for every piece of legislation, promises to compromise on Healthcare, and given every bit of consession on it, and still tried to block the goddamn thing. Six years of holding the economy hostage, demanding horrible cuts that the Leftists in this here thread blame the Democrats for taking instead of letting it all burn. All of this while Republicans are repeatedly outed as child molesters, sexual assaulters and crooks. And what ill political effect do they receive? Nothing. Not a god drat thing. A Republican leader could rape a child on live TV and the party proper would never suffer electorally for it. But a bunch of terrorists shoot up an underfunded and underdefended embassy? Four year investigation costing millions. Use the wrong email server? Investigation, universal condemnation and the public ire. The Liberal's greatest sin, is his inability to remember that the average American will forgive a Republican anything, and expect perfection from Democrats. The second greatest is pretending that the left will ever be there when they're needed.
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Apr 7, 2017 17:32
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Lindsey O. Graham posted:i like it, and i'm following your reasoning Same. Related; What's with the idea that anyone who isn't a flag waving Red being a Liberal? A lot of ya'll are taking positions from Goldwater Republicans to Moderate Dems, and tarring the poo poo out of liberals with them. Democrats didn't magic Full Communism Now into existance? Clearly they must be just Republicans in disguise, out to kill the poor.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:17
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Surely the American Socialist (or Green, or Whomever) party will make mass gains in the coming elections, as The People suddenly realize that they don't need any funding whatsoever to campaign with and sweep elections solely by being right about the problems of the world. The People will definitely reward them for their correctness with votes and loyalty.Hodgepodge posted:It's necessary to accurately identify liberalism as an ideology distinct from socialism, communism, etc. What you are objecting to is simply a return to the classical use of the term to indicate utopian capitalism. This is good, because using it as a synonym for "progressive" has stifled diversity within the Left while enabling the efforts of the Right to tar all progressives with the same brush. This is actually a much more understandable viewpoint, even if I don't agree with it. A lot of folks want to keep capitalism, and use aspects of socialism to alleviate the worst excesses of it, while still benefitting from the innovations and choices that come with it. I'd posit that most "liberals" are this way, even if they wouldn't call the policies they want Socialist. Talmonis fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Apr 28, 2017 |
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Apr 28, 2017 18:46
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Jesus Christ just shut the gently caress up. You don't get to bitch about purity tests or whatever after losing the easiest election in history. Purity tests are the exact reason it was lost. Clinton wasn't a communist? Better not vote at all then. Fuckin' accelerationists.
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Apr 28, 2017 18:51
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Hodgepodge posted:Or maybe people will simply be able to identify and organize around actual variations in ideals and preferences within the Democratic Party instead of watching the party wither and die as fewer and fewer actual people are represented by its leadership and an larger portion of its rrmaining votes are motivated by horror at the Republicans rather than any desire to see its candidates in power. I agree with you. This isn't what seems to be the consensus here though. Fullhouse posted:how would you identify the ideology of Hillary Clinton without linking to her website lovely neo-liberal politician whose name is not Donald loving Trump. Really, there shouldn't need to be more reasons than to stop a lunatic from gaining power.
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Apr 28, 2017 19:01
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Fullhouse posted:why on Earth would I, an American citizen who does not wear a lanyard for his job, want to vote for one of these To ensure the Supreme Court doesn't fall into a generation of darkness. To keep needed funding for those few programs we have left that help folks survive. To staff vital agencies with the right people for the job, who actually believe in the mission statements of said job. Environmental protection in any way, shape or form. Maintaining global stability, such as it is. Plenty more.
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Apr 28, 2017 19:26
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comedyblissoption posted:i'm sure hillary did nothing like that to confirm their worst stereotypes of out of touch coastal elites What about her statement is false? It was stupid to say out loud, but spot on for his screaming hordes at the rallies.
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Apr 30, 2017 22:36
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comedyblissoption posted:just because you may support some trump policies doesnt make you a bigot. there are legitimate economic grievances when someone is against globalism or illegal immigration and would prefer protectionist policies. The second part of the quote addressed those folks who agreed with that messaging, what little of it there was. The same people, who ignored blatant race baiting, promises of a Muslim registry and other swaggering idiocy that won him his primary. They're people who should have known better, and are more culpable than the morons screaming for Clinton's arrest. comedyblissoption posted:also if you want to believe what she is saying is factual, please provide any statistical evidence absurdly attempting to objectively define bigotry that also doesn't ironically show her own supporters are similarly bigoted Sorry, statistical evidence is no longer a means of determining the truthiness of a subject, according to our new regime. I mean, I'm sure some are good people, but they're not the ones we need to worry about. And come off it. It's blatantly obvious to anyone watching that his are the people demanding a wall to keep "Mexicans" out.
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May 1, 2017 14:52
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SimonCat posted:It might be racism, it's also fueled by the fact that companies have exploited Mexican workers to the detriment of American workers. "They took our jobs!" is a cliche thrown around D&D, but it is something that has happened. The most stark example I know of is the IBP meat packing planting in Sioux City, Iowa. Circa 1980, IBP locked out the unionized work force, built a shanty town on company property, and imported Mexican workers to do the jobs a a greatly reduced rate of pay. Eventually the union was broken and even if the American workers were hired back, it wasn't for the same wages and benefits they had enjoyed before. Agreed. It just astounds me that anyone would trust the idea of protectionism or worker protections coming from the Republican Party. The party who killed their unions, pushed NAFTA, cuts their benefits, openly calls them lazy for being poor and gives the world to the Trumps in the country. Why would you trust a man known for not paying his workers, cheating his clients and being a general shitheel with bringing you prosperity instead of lining his own pockets as he always does? You wouldn't if you were paying the slightest bit of attention. But you might if he "knocks down them uppity scientists a peg or two" and talks poo poo about all the people that sub-rural bumfucks hate. Spite and hate for the educated and progressivism in general were big factors.
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May 1, 2017 18:09
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