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Main Paineframe posted:the people who voted in Trump weren't drug addicts making $20k, they were well-off white tradesmen with pensions worried that their kids might have to go off to the godless cities to find well-paying work instead of walking into a $70k factory job right out of high school. middle-income whites went for Trump at a significantly higher rate than low-income whites Correct, and furthermore, because the solutions to rural poverty arent trite slogans that fit on a bumper sticker
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Mar 22, 2017 15:52
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Everybody else already covered the stereotyping of the poor, in spite of the polls clearly showing that Trump was favored by middle class voters. So I'll just add that liberals think capitalism works as a meritocracy rather than as a nepotistic ring of interlocking elite networks. Therefore if you're rich it must mean that you deserved it by working hard & right, instead of acquiring wealth through your relationships and access to specialized knowledge, whereas the poor are still poor because they just haven't applied themselves enough. This is why the liberal "compassion" for poor people is expressed through pity rather than solidarity, and quickly transforms into contempt when they think poor people aren't voting sufficiently Democratic enough. You know, i can almost see the sneer on your stupid face when you type things like this. What economic system actually works on it's merits, or for that matter, what system of human interaction works on merits versus "a nepotistic ring of interlocking elite network, access to specialized.... blah blah blah loving blah"? Certainly not any kind of communist government, or whatever fringe retarded marxist philosophy splinter group you angrily cling to.
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Mar 22, 2017 16:04
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Socialists don't pretend that society isn't organized according to its social relations, dipshit. So socialists are comfortable with nepotism and so on, thanks
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Mar 22, 2017 16:07
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The difference being that socialists choose their own leaders, instead of having a leadership imposed upon them by alien groups. In capitalism you cannot choose your foreman, your manager, or even your boss. Oh, my sweet summer child.
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Mar 22, 2017 16:17
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Don't talk about what you don't know. Or, you know, observe the world as it actually works versus what this super rad marxist comic book said it would be like once capitalism was vanquished once and for all. I mean it said it was going to happen any day now, I think the word they used was 'inevitable'. Since you're the resident super historian though, perhaps you can show an actual example of 'socialism' where it works like you imagine it to. Something bigger than your tree fort club, if you please.
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Mar 22, 2017 16:44
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Control Volume posted:"Democrats: They'll at least give you a reacharound" they'll promise you one, but instead give it to wall st and tell you that they had no choice
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Mar 22, 2017 16:44
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Mc Do Well posted:Liberals sure are arrogant! i cant remember now are you eripsa or the other one
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Mar 22, 2017 16:55
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Fullhouse posted:I still can't comprehend people earnestly responding to gobbagool in multiple threads at this point Yes, I have much work to do to achieve the lofty posting status of forums poster "fullhouse"
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Mar 22, 2017 17:20
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:You've shopped at socialist enterprises before, my dude. Have you ever wondered what the "co-op" part of a co-op grocery store means? Yeah, I shop at one on occassion, or used to before we moved. What's your point? that's a more wholesome or natural way of selling groceries?
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Mar 22, 2017 17:21
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Fallen Hamprince posted:if the co-op businesses i've been to are representative of 'socialist enterprise' then it's no wonder the USSR collapsed lmao no, you see, pener is here to tell us that we're in late stage capitalism and that the only way for us to be saved is by socialist grocery stores because they are spiritually pure, and that because it's good to make decisions through social networks rather than merit, or maybe not, he seems to be getting confused
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Mar 22, 2017 17:25
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Crowsbeak posted:Oh good the humans are all sociopaths argument. Really its just you. huh? where did I say that? my point is that no system of human interaction is immune from interhuman relationships and influence. any system or philosophy that states otherwise is the most idiotic sort of contrarianism. For example: "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need" which is a swell idea but has never happened anywhere ever outside of pener's anime
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Mar 22, 2017 17:35
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:This whole tangent got started because you were offended by the claim that liberals believe in meritocracy.. Um, no, you said: Pener Kropoopkin posted:So I'll just add that liberals think capitalism works as a meritocracy rather than as a nepotistic ring of interlocking elite networks. to which I replied that every single system of human interaction is prone to nepotism and 'interlocking elite networks' I get that you're dumb but this isnt that complex.
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Mar 22, 2017 17:46
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Thoguh posted:D&D is that way, duder. yeah i think pener got lost looking for the tankie fanboy thread and ended up here
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Mar 22, 2017 17:47
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Crowsbeak posted:When did be defend the destruction of Hungary in 1956? repeatedly and passionately until the guy working the drivethrough window at mcdonalds told him to stop
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Mar 22, 2017 17:59
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:That's not even germane to the point. It is because every time one of you 101 level marxists grabs the mic all we hear about is corruption in the capitalist system and it's inevitable downfall, while failing to provide even a single example of a human economic system or other arrangement that's free of the sorts of things that happen whenever 2 humans talk to eachother. It's like you're gaming human interaction by a dungeons and dragons ruleset, except assuming you can roll a 20 every single time.
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Mar 22, 2017 18:48
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jarofpiss posted:what yeah sorry kind of a wordy way of saying...communists, especially of the anime internet variety, seem overly fond of pointing out the flaws in capitalism while refusing to acknowledge their system sucks even worse, but for the exact same reason, which is the human beings will almost always do the wrong thing if it means helping out a friend or otherwise connected associate, be it done under the banner of Adam Smith or Vladimir Illyich Lenin. Pener, as someone who claims to have a history degree, should be able to acknowledge this, or alternatively, provide an example to the contrary from the vast number of successful communist societies.
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Mar 22, 2017 19:00
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Marxism is self-critiquing, and so for that matter are almost all other schools of socialism. It's not like everybody just ignores the problems of Actually Existing Socialisms, the point is that they were still preferable to capitalism, and that there are better alternatives to past models. Yes cuba and north korea are surely preferable to living in Germany or the US and if you think otherwise I suggest you read das kapital again until you understand
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Mar 22, 2017 19:23
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Dreddout posted:This_is_what_liberals_actually_believe.txt they also believe woody allen movies are good
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Mar 22, 2017 19:23
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Why wouldn't you want to live in Cuba? so this is where you tell me Cuba is actually a really kickin rad country and way more free than the US, right?
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Mar 22, 2017 20:12
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call to action posted:I wouldn't want to live in Cuba but that's mainly because everyone there is so much healthier that I'd be embarrassed I guess if your sole concern is where your country ranks on a health survey, and nothing else matters, then yeah, you should break your way into cuba. I imagine there's plenty of rafts in south florida from people (obviously employing double plus wrongthink) who came the other way
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Mar 22, 2017 20:14
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call to action posted:As a human being, yes, my physical health is a primary concern of mine. There's no need to take rafts as Frontier flys cheap from Miami to Havana. Lots of people go to Cuba for cheaper, better medical care though, to your point. So when are you leaving for Cuba? I can't imagine a reason why you wouldn't go, as you've stated, your physical health is a primary concern for you, and you don't seem the type to be able to figure out the American healthcare system. Do you have a patreon where I can donate for your airfare?
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Mar 22, 2017 20:26
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Life seems pretty great when you're the privileged middle class of countries that extract imperialist super profits. OK, yeah, i'm a white male with a mid 6 figures job living well, so you have a point. What makes you and your fellow travellers think that life in Cuba is so great though? I mean, people arent sneaking into cuba, they're putting their lives on the line to escape, on primitive rafts in dangerous waters. Why are they doing that? Because healthcare is so great in cuba that they just cant stand all the winning? Seriously, why is it that people are always fleeing communist paradises, to go to capitalist horrorshows like western europe and the US?
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Mar 22, 2017 20:28
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call to action posted:I have a job with a good healthcare plan, so I'm good even if I can see how hosed things are for others. I agree that it's pretty silly we have a healthcare system we have to "figure out" so when are you leaving for Cuba? Is your health your primary concern or not? If i didnt know better, I'd say you're just a contrarian marxist dipshit, but I mean that in the nicest possible way. If you think people are too stupid to make their own decisions, no wonder you're a totalitarian fanboy.
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Mar 22, 2017 20:35
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call to action posted:
Sure, so why don't cubans just fly out? Oh yeah that's right, they need permission, and most cubans are far too poor to contemplate a plane flight, ever, but yeah they do get those super sweet che tshirts and 'free' medical care so I guess that makes up for the grinding poverty and lack of freedom
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Mar 22, 2017 20:36
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:
cuba - noted 'other capitalist country' has provided over 1.1m refugees to the United States. my god you're as bad as borneo jimmy
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Mar 22, 2017 20:45
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call to action posted:Also Cuban women are loving gorgeous blends of like every race, sorry no objectify. Hybrid vigor indeed. Hey great point, not like there's been any ethnic mixing in the US at all, a shame there's not been some kind of...pot...in which different ethnicities could....i dont know, melt together? crazy idea, it would never work
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Mar 22, 2017 21:06
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I can't even afford to move to the next county, let alone another country. so the heart of your anger at capitalism is that you're bad at it, noted
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Mar 22, 2017 21:06
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the answer to the question is because liberals aligned themselves fully behind the Democratic party, which cares not at all about poor people, quite the opposite really. Wouldn't you love to know what Hillary said to the wall st bankers she met with? Poor people can't afford to make Hillary worth $300m so why on earth would she not hate them? I mean Pener's a great guy and all, but beyond his ballwashing of totalitarian regimes im not sure what use he could be to her or any other dem/lib politician
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Mar 22, 2017 21:18
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Does gobbagool claim to be a liberal? I thought he was a Republican. Yes, thank you Jeb. Sort of like your namesake in fact
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Mar 22, 2017 21:20
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:gobbagool is a liberal who votes Republican No, i would never claim to be a liberal, even in jest. some things are beyond the pale and should not even be joked about
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Mar 22, 2017 21:26
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Scent of Worf posted:Lol when was the last time Barry made 30,000 a year? He doesn't have a loving clue how much that is after taxes, rent and essential bills does he You're right of course, but there is a difference. The republicans don't use the full force and weight of their cultural hegemony (because they dont have it lol) to tell the working class that they are literal garbage and that everything that they believe is garbage. Working class people aren't as dumb as a lot of people think - they know that Debbie Wasserman Shultz and probably every single democrat you could name are much much much more concerned with forcing bakeries to bake cakes for gay weddings and certainly the trans bathroom issue than they are about the working class. When faced with 2 political parties that aren't going to protect you economically, but one of them says the words you want to hear "radical islamic terrorism" and so on, and the other party sternly lectures you about your privilege and how you're a bigot for disagreeing with the Lena Dunham wing of the party, it isn't all that hard to figure out whats going to happen
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Mar 23, 2017 15:41
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call to action posted:Goddamn that is so badass, just loving taking US corporation's poo poo like that. Why should people in poor areas just watch their resources be extracted away? So economic interaction with the US is bad, and should be discouraged. But cuba's terrible standard of living is the fault of the US for refusing to interact economically with cuba, and the embargo is evil. It's almost like you're going to reflexively complain no matter what the US does!
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Mar 23, 2017 20:14
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Top City Homo posted:u have a lot of dumb ideas my dude So what's stopping people from moving to socialist paradises like Cuba? I mean, besides the horrifically oppressive government and abject poverty for the vast majority of people there that aren't communist party officials. Everyone is equal, just some are more equal than others, comrade. None of you can ever explain why people put their lives on the line to escape Cuba, the rafts never went the other way. I'm sure the eternal science of marxism has the answer though
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Mar 23, 2017 20:22
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call to action posted:quote where I said that you spent like 5 posts earlier extolling the virtues of cuba and how much better it is than the US. i mean, if you're trolling, fine, but i have you pegged more for garden variety che tshirt wearing idiot than troll
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Mar 23, 2017 20:25
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Having corporations siphon the profits out of their operations in your country to their country is technically "economic interaction" but it is literally extracting resources from your own country to profit a foreign capitalist class. so then it was good when the US stopped doing that to cuba, right?
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Mar 23, 2017 20:40
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Fiction posted:the US didn't "stop doing that to cuba" lol they tried to embargo cuba on food and supplies to try and kill Cubans because we were mad they overthrew the brutal dictator we installed So it was good when the mighty castro kicked out the evil US. Good to know you're a fan of the things he did.
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Mar 23, 2017 21:03
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Fiction posted:i am a critical fan of castro for liberating his people from US imperialism even if he did some hosed up poo poo, yeah. do you agree with village idiot calltoaction that Cuba is a superior place to the US for the average person to live?
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Mar 23, 2017 21:26
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Fiction posted:well no because they don't have superprofits extracted from the exploitation of weaker countries but they managed to have a better health care system than us despite that lol who needs other human freedoms when you can live your soul crushing existence out in good health
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Mar 23, 2017 21:43
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jarofpiss posted:cuba owNS I'll donate to your patreon if you promise to go there and not come back. I'm serious. How much do you need to raise to 
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Mar 25, 2017 19:29
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FuzzySkinner posted:facist scum =/= Poor Midwesterner who lost their job because of poo poo trade deals, and has no economic opportunities. it would, in fact, be helpful if there was some differentiation between the republicans and the democrats, recognizing that democrats havent been liberals in this country in a couple generations. choosing between 2 flavors of republican, one that's all in an trans bathroom rights, and the other that is angry about mexicans is a really lovely choice for the vast majority of people that don't care about either of those things but are concerned about how to pay the mortgage and their kids college.
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Mar 29, 2017 20:51
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