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Cubone posted:social democrats generally point to the Nordic model Is it possible to have a "Nordic Model" w/o outsourcing your military defense to a large country like the US?
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Mar 26, 2017 14:53
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maskenfreiheit posted:Is it possible to have a "Nordic Model" w/o outsourcing your military defense to a large country like the US? The U.S. itself doesn't need half the military budget we have. So yes
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Mar 26, 2017 14:54
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maskenfreiheit posted:Is it possible to have a "Nordic Model" w/o outsourcing your military defense to a large country like the US? yes, but it requires that literally every citizen be in the military. like ancient Sparta 
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Mar 26, 2017 14:54
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The cute lady's reaction to her first bite of brisket is pretty much perfect. In fact, I think a reaction to brisket of that sincerity should automatically makes you an honorary Texan because I don't think I've ever seen anybody react to brisket with that much genuine delight.
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Mar 26, 2017 15:02
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Yeah except texas is trash, hope this helps
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Mar 26, 2017 15:11
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i like that the north korean word for "fork" is "tool used for shoveling cow poo poo". nice try at the 1984 stuff lol
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Mar 26, 2017 15:11
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9L9EeCb8is&t=1756s
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Mar 26, 2017 15:16
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Wikkheiser posted:I'm posting in two different NK threads but have this video: This is just 1080p, not 4k. Truly the worse of all North Korean lies.
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Mar 26, 2017 15:17
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 oh poo poo north korea has Neo!
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Mar 26, 2017 15:18
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That training is going to come in mighty handy when one of the following happens... Gets shot in total darkness by 19 year old PFC Jimmy Seabrook from Kansas without ever having fired a single round. Gets obliterated in his bunker by a B-52-dropped JDAM courtesy of 26 year old Cpt Amy Novak from Spokane. Starves to death guarding the border south of Kosong, never having seen action since nobody cares about Kosong and the invasion drove straight to Pyongyang. Has a Hellfire land 3 feet behind him and tear him to shreds the exact instant Drone pilot 2nd LT. Davis lets a massive fart rip in an air conditioned trailer in Nebraska. Steps on a Land Mine in the DMZ, loses a leg outright, and bleeds out in 3 minutes. The mine (ironically enough) was planted there 47 years earlier by his great uncle Kim Young-chul during his mandatory military service. Kim Young-chul is now a retired salaryman and visiting Guam so his granddaughter can have a US anchor baby.
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Mar 26, 2017 16:00
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Oh cool there's a sequel to the classic Kim Jong Il film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmoLLMmQNZI It hilarious how many of those boards are breaking nowhere near where they actually make contact with the guy. The_Franz fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 16:30
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Benny Harvey posted:How was Hoxha worse than Stalin? I don't know that anyone is saying that he was worse than Stalin. But he remained a Stalinist until his death in 1985, so when the USSR and the rest of the satellite states were liberalizing, Albania remained a little pocket of severe repression. A bit similar to the difference between modern day China and NK.
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Mar 26, 2017 16:49
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maskenfreiheit posted:Is it possible to have a "Nordic Model" w/o outsourcing your military defense to a large country like the US? Don't worry, I'm sure if we try it in the US it will work out just like it does in a country populated only by 9 million rich white people.
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Mar 26, 2017 16:59
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Blazing Ownager posted:You saw the last round of executions were carried out by anti-aircraft gun right? The scene in Stalingrad where the guy is cut in half by a direct hit from a T-34 (3:10): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVvoo1qFPDo
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Mar 26, 2017 17:15
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Don't worry, I'm sure if we try it in the US it will work out just like it does in a country populated only by 9 million rich white people. so do you think it wouldn't work in the US because we have more people, have less GDP per capita, or because of brown people?
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Mar 26, 2017 17:17
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the United States is the richest nation in the history of the world ever and all the socialized programs work better with more participants so really that whole argument is a giant crock of poo poo which is extra funny esp considering it was the USA that pushed for all those socialized systems in Europe post-WW2 in the first place. Good enough for them but not good enough for us I guess (it was bc they wanted to make capitalism appealing to the Eastern bloc countries). this new age american exceptionalism of "we can't do it for some reason bc we're us even though everyone else is already doing it" is such loving bullshit
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Mar 26, 2017 17:20
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Moridin920 posted:the United States is the richest nation in the history of the world ever and all the socialized programs work better with more participants so really that whole argument is a giant crock of poo poo Counterpoint: the U.S. government is a massive, bloated and complex network of incompetence attempting to sustain a population no system could calculate for, with population, climate, economic and geological diversity greater than just about any single nation in history. For decades and decades the federal government has taken on more and more responsibilities once left up to local municipalities and state governments. Now state governments have to wait for the glacial pace of federal agencies to get around to approving their local ordinances and provisions, which slows things down to an inordinate amount. This isn't just like, passing laws and stuff, it's developing economically. The nation's largest wind power project has taken over a decade just to get approval to begin construction because of how long environmental impact analysis takes and how many different agencies have to approve on any single project. Wind power, one of the vanguards of renewable energy and something the previous Presidential administration wanted to prioritize, is being crippled by the very same entity that encouraged its growth.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:27
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Counterpoint: the U.S. government is a massive, bloated and complex network of incompetence attempting to sustain a population no system could calculate for, with population, climate, economic and geological diversity greater than just about any single nation in history. For decades and decades the federal government has taken on more and more responsibilities once left up to local municipalities and state governments. Now state governments have to wait for the glacial pace of federal agencies to get around to approving their local ordinances and provisions, which slows things down to an inordinate amount. This isn't just like, passing laws and stuff, it's developing economically. The nation's largest wind power project has taken over a decade just to get approval to begin construction because of how long environmental impact analysis takes and how many different agencies have to approve on any single project. Wind power, one of the vanguards of renewable energy and something the previous Presidential administration wanted to prioritize, is being crippled by the very same entity that encouraged its growth. That's not a counterpoint to anything. Are you seriously trying to say that because bureaucracy has inertia we shouldn't... what?
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Mar 26, 2017 17:28
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Counterpoint to that though: almost all of that is caused by obstructionist retard free marketers like this one who intentionally make government agencies work like poo poo so they can later make the same argument you are making and advocate for privatization:Grover Fuckboy Norquist posted:I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub. The government isn't inherently incapable of doing something well and there are a lot of things it does do well and there's no reason to just give up because the current situation is hosed up. quote:The nation's largest wind power project has taken over a decade just to get approval to begin construction because of how long environmental impact analysis takes and how many different agencies have to approve on any single project. Wind power, one of the vanguards of renewable energy and something the previous Presidential administration wanted to prioritize, is being crippled by the very same entity that encouraged its growth. Like, do you really think this is because "goverment" or is it more likely because the POTUS isn't the king and there are all kinds of people (such as oil lobbyists) throwing wrenches into every single environmental related thing they can resulting in an EPA that is a piece of poo poo?
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Mar 26, 2017 17:31
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Psycho Society posted:That's not a counterpoint to anything. Are you seriously trying to say that because bureaucracy has inertia we shouldn't... what? I'm arguing that socialized systems may not work in America because the people who support them seem to want to establish them at the federal level, which is the worst possible way to do so. If America is going to adopt effective social welfare, education and medical programs, they need to be established from the local level, from the state level, because entrusting them entirely to the monolithic federal entity is dooming them to failure based on...well, the past 40 years of U.S. history really.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:31
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You need federal subsidies at the least though because otherwise like CA and NY will be fine and everyone else will be hosed still.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:32
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8-Bit Scholar posted:I'm arguing that socialized systems may not work in America because the people who support them seem to want to establish them at the federal level, which is the worst possible way to do so. If America is going to adopt effective social welfare, education and medical programs, they need to be established from the local level, from the state level, because entrusting them entirely to the monolithic federal entity is dooming them to failure based on...well, the past 40 years of U.S. history really. You couldn't be more wrong. A patchwork system of resource-starved counties or states trying to implement a safety net for basic needs is a terrible loving idea. Jesus christ
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Mar 26, 2017 17:33
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Psycho Society posted:You couldn't be more wrong. A patchwork system of resource-starved counties or states trying to implement a safety net for basic needs is a terrible loving idea. Jesus christ Who exactly are resource-starved, here? I mean, if you look at the energy market, more states than ever are entering the natural gas market thanks to the advent of fracking, adding hitherto unavailable economic options. There are poor states and there are rich states, but as such it's precisely why those states need to determine a system that works within their means, and can be supported, sustained and hopefully expanded over the years, just like any other good system. If you had inadequacies that were so dire that they could not be alleviated by simple good governance, that might be the opportunity for the federal government to offer support to ensure that not state flagrantly lags behind.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:36
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Who exactly are resource-starved, here? I mean, if you look at the energy market, more states than ever are entering the natural gas market thanks to the advent of fracking, adding hitherto unavailable economic options. There are poor states and there are rich states, but as such it's precisely why those states need to determine a system that works within their means, and can be supported, sustained and hopefully expanded over the years, just like any other good system. Access to food and medical care are basic rights for every country that wants to call itself civilized. A functional system to ensure this needs to be established on the national level to utilize our resources effectively and to help the greatest amount of people.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:40
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tbh we need to drag those Southern red states kicking and screaming into the future because they are poo poo and continue to be poo poo and elect poo poo politicians that turn it into even more poo poo Brownbackistan lmao
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Mar 26, 2017 17:41
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https://twitter.com/AquaMarching/status/829194161152786432 e: i was going to post about how the thread got off of twitter defending north korea, but then i actually tried to comb through some of those twitter feeds 
china bot fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 17:41
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Psycho Society posted:You couldn't be more wrong. A patchwork system of resource-starved counties or states trying to implement a safety net for basic needs is a terrible loving idea. Jesus christ I agree. Take the issue of homelessness - if one city in a state institutes a very generous set of policies (relative to the other cities in the same state), offering low income housing, drug rehab, jobs programs, word will get out and they will be overwhelmed as people travel there to take advantage. The same is true of states that have generous welfare benefits versus ones that have, err, more "objectivist" standards. The policies are better instituted on a state or federal level to level the playing field and ensure consistency.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:43
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Psycho Society posted:Access to food and medical care are basic rights for every country that wants to call itself civilized. A functional system to ensure this needs to be established on the national level to utilize our resources effectively and to help the greatest amount of people. Access is great and all, but the ACA was all about "access" and this translated to handing everybody off to some dumb health insurance marketplace system that gave people insurance, but did nothing to address the disgustingly high cost of medical care in the first place. I think the U.S.'s needs are too varied and too broad in scope to be benefit by single system to address that. Moridin920 posted:tbh we need to drag those Southern red states kicking and screaming into the future because they are poo poo and continue to be poo poo and elect poo poo politicians that turn it into even more poo poo First of all, Kansas is not the South, and second of all, terrible governance is just one of a shitload of problems Kansas faces, none of which are being adequately addressed on either the federal or state level. But poo poo trickles downhill at that. I'd be all for maintaining our current way of doing things, but it doesn't seem to be working, and we've had decades now to either work out the problems or reform the systems in place and after all that time, what's the return on investment? Neither Democratic nor Republican leaders have manage to address any of the holistic problems facing our nation. Something needs to give, and I think the most logical solution is to empower the states and local communities to create their own plans of action.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:47
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Access is great and all, but the ACA was all about "access" and this translated to handing everybody off to some dumb health insurance marketplace system that gave people insurance, but did nothing to address the disgustingly high cost of medical care in the first place. I think the U.S.'s needs are too varied and too broad in scope to be benefit by single system to address that. We're not arguing for the ACA, although it did do alot of good. We're arguing for universal healthcare through a single payer system. The US doesn't have varied needs. Our people don't. Here are our needs: affordable healthcare. That's it, and wringing your hands about how many people we have, how slow government can be, or "fracking" (wtf?) isn't going to change that.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:51
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8-Bit Scholar posted:First of all, Kansas is not the South, and second of all, terrible governance is just one of a shitload of problems Kansas faces, none of which are being adequately addressed on either the federal or state level. But poo poo trickles downhill at that. Kansas is not the South but it is pretty representative of what is happening there in general https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-03-23/inside-alabama-s-auto-jobs-boom-cheap-wages-little-training-crushed-limbs and trickle downhill? PLEASE lol the reason it is called BROWNBACKistan is because the state legislature and the governor together have turned it into a poo poo land not because Obama or the federal gov't did anything to them quote:I think the U.S.'s needs are too varied and too broad in scope to be benefit by single system to address that. wrt to healthcare specifically, not really. people are people and some are poor and some are rich and some need more care and some don't but this doesn't change the fact that 1 big risk pool is the most efficient way to operate an insurance scheme. quote:I'd be all for maintaining our current way of doing things, but it doesn't seem to be working, and we've had decades now to either work out the problems or reform the systems in place and after all that time, what's the return on investment? Neither Democratic nor Republican leaders have manage to address any of the holistic problems facing our nation. Something needs to give, and I think the most logical solution is to empower the states and local communities to create their own plans of action. I see what you are saying here but imo the state and local poo poo is all D or R as well and honestly both those parties threw Americans that aren't the top 10% overboard years ago and gently caress them both we just need new leadership that actually gives a gently caress about something other than managing the affairs of the bourgie class whether that starts with local elections or not idk. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 17:52
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Psycho Society posted:We're not arguing for the ACA, although it did do alot of good. We're arguing for universal healthcare through a single payer system. The US doesn't have varied needs. Our people don't. Here are our needs: affordable healthcare. That's it, and wringing your hands about how many people we have, how slow government can be, or "fracking" (wtf?) isn't going to change that. I agree we need affordable healthcare, but is a single payer system going to provide that? Will it provide it without the pretty serious problems that impact other systems? What if the system works well in some states and not others? I'm saying that it doesn't seem like the federal government of the U.S. has demonstrated that it's very good at running the systems it already attempts to, I fail to see why it wouldn't be much more efficient for states to maintain and design their own systems, with the feds providing a vague set of guidelines to ensure a reasonable base quality of care. EDIT: Consider that the people who run Washington, and thus the Federal government, are a literal aristocracy that previous propped up Hillary Clinton as their front woman. These are the people, the interests, who would be in charge of any universal health care system. Do you see how that might be a grave concern?
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Mar 26, 2017 17:55
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id like to visit north korea before it completely implodes
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Mar 26, 2017 17:57
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8-Bit Scholar posted:I agree we need affordable healthcare, but is a single payer system going to provide that? Will it provide it without the pretty serious problems that impact other systems? What if the system works well in some states and not others? Yeah but again it would have been fine if the GOP didn't obstruct single payer and have it removed. 8-Bit Scholar posted:I agree we need affordable healthcare, but is a single payer system going to provide that? Will it provide it without the pretty serious problems that impact other systems? What if the system works well in some states and not others? yes to the first two by virtue of the single big risk pool how would it work well in state A but not state B?
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Mar 26, 2017 17:57
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I mean dude it's just medicare. We've had medicare for decades and it has operated just fine (except for when congress "borrows" money from the fund and then doesn't pay it back like they do with SS lol) just expand medicare to everyone and instead of premiums we pay taxes which into the single big risk pool (which results in more money in your pocket at the end of the day) quote:In the United States, Medicare is a single-payer, national social insurance program administered by the US federal government since 1966
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Mar 26, 2017 17:58
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8-Bit Scholar posted:I agree we need affordable healthcare, but is a single payer system going to provide that? Will it provide it without the pretty serious problems that impact other systems? What if the system works well in some states and not others? More systems means more overhead. If you think a single player system is magically too complex for the federal government to handle (a loving ridiculous idea since there are plenty of examples of what works and what doesn't given northern europe has been doing this a while), that's only going to be compounded over 50 states. A federal system would help the greatest amount of people the quickest. Once again, no amount of wringing your hands will make it any less immoral to deny even a single person the access to basic rights that would certainly come with such a patchwork system.
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Mar 26, 2017 17:59
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Did they ever release that weird aspergery kid who upon arrival tore up his US passport and announced that he wanted to defect but ended up being arrested on some kind of espionage charges instead?
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Mar 26, 2017 17:58
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Blue Raider posted:id like to visit north korea after it completely implodes
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Mar 26, 2017 18:00
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could somebody post some north korean tankie tears instead of this gay us healthcare bullshit all over again tia
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Mar 26, 2017 18:00
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Moridin920 posted:how would it work well in state A but not state B? Certain populations have certain medical needs. The Deep South, for instance, has a lot of heart disease, obesity and the like. Places like New Mexico and Arizona have sunstroke, dehydration, water shortages. Wyoming and Montana have huuuuge distances between hospitals and medical centers, and low populations spread out across these vast spaces. Those all require different resources with different costs: medicine and surgery for the South, clean water access for the arid desert, and gas for the transportation of patients in the larger, less populated states. Obtaining these resources reliably and at a responsible level of cost is a major challenge, and one I think that local governments could address easier, since they could attempt to stimulate their own economies by obtaining as much of these resources from agencies close at hand. Now, a very well-crafted system could address this, but it'd take a long long time to possibly add in as much flexible language as to provide for all the states' individual needs while not being so worded that the system is prone to abuse or mismanagement; again, developed on the state level I think many programs would be assembled much more quickly and be much more effective sooner to those states' individual needs.
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Mar 26, 2017 18:02
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Those all require different resources with different costs: medicine and surgery for the South, clean water access for the arid desert, and gas for the transportation of patients in the larger, less populated states. Obtaining these resources reliably and at a responsible level of cost is a major challenge, and one I think that local governments could address easier, since they could attempt to stimulate their own economies by obtaining as much of these resources from agencies close at hand. Why would a healthcare system need to worry about water access or gas? That's something totally separate isn't it? Just pay for ambulances surely that's not some onerous burden. You might have a point wrt to socialized programs in general but with regard to socialized medicine nah man it's really not all that complex. Some areas need more, some areas need less. The point remains that with one single big giant risk pool the areas and people that need more can be more easily taken care of and no one gets left out in the cold. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Mar 26, 2017 |
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Mar 26, 2017 18:06
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