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Epicurius posted:If Germany doesn't attack Belgium, will Britain even get involved? Realistically, the answer is probably. The violation of Belgian neutrality gave Britain a mighty fine justification to get involved that they could sell to their people, but Britain likely would have entered the war against Germany either way as she had no desire to see Germany dominate Europe (staving off European hegemony was always a cornerstone of British diplomacy) and in the case of an Entente victory Britain would want to stay on the good side of Russia and France since the security of the Empire depended on atleast cordial relations with the two. There's a lot more going into it than just that, Britain had a whole host of reasons to ally with France and Russia against Germany that did not include Germany violating Belgium's neutrality.
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Mar 29, 2017 23:11
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Yeah realistically the only way Britain ends up NOT eventually joining on the Entente side is if France does something truly idiotic like reverse-Schlieffening Belgium.
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Mar 29, 2017 23:14
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Epicurius posted:If Germany doesn't attack Belgium, will Britain even get involved? they still have an entente drift, and is one of two nations (the other being the US) that can never be convinced to join the CP.
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Mar 29, 2017 23:18
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HannibalBarca posted:they still have an entente drift, and is one of two nations (the other being the US) that can never be convinced to join the CP. HAHA Zimmerman!
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Mar 29, 2017 23:26
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HannibalBarca posted:they still have an entente drift, and is one of two nations (the other being the US) that can never be convinced to join the CP. Of course, they can still end up favoring the CP if you don't use submarine warfare (among other things), which has some benefits: mostly, it gives the Entente a harder time pressuring the US into war. On the bright side, the CP can get Italy on their side by doing stupid poo poo like giving Italy some of Austria's best defensive terrain, on top of getting stupid lucky with diplomat visits! Italy might seem worthless...which it mostly is, on top of the opportunity cost being stupid high...but Italy guys!  Also, the Western Entente sadly can't declare war on the US as a method either, so it's impossible to make history go completely batshit bananas for no good reason.
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Mar 30, 2017 03:19
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  Things shift towards war. I will not show all the messages, as most of them are small shifts in alignment.  The Serbians have rejected the ultimatum given to them this is unsurprising, as it had been carefully crafted to be unacceptable.  Our spies tell us the French are gearing up for a major offensive.  We will have to hope that the units of the 4,5,6 and 7 Armee's can hold them off. They are static at this time, but they are still getting men and materials.  The Russians are also about to go on the offensive.  Here the Germans have the bulk of their forces.  The Austrians have also mobilized here.  The Serbian Front is less powerfully manned.  It should be stated the the numbers seen at the top of the stack do not relate to those in an area I have not merged to many units, as I want to strike deeply into Russia along a wide front.  So while Rennenkamp's force may look more powerful with a combat power of 1,000....  Bulow in fact has near 3,000 combat power in Gumbinnen! I could overwhelm the Russians with all of this force, but I shall spread them out and attack quickly. Bulow is also a better General at 4-1-6 (Strategic, Offensive, Defensive) than Rennenkamp's 2-3-1. That said, the Russian General is much better on the defensive, so I will need a good number of troops to ensure the battle is a victory.  Here is a stack, this is the 2 Armee. It is made up of a commanding general, and attached corps and some units not in a smaller container.  Each of the reserve divisions is made up of two infantry brigades and some artillery support, and numbers 12,300 men and 36 artillery pieces.  Likewise, the Garde Reserve Korps is made up of two divisions and some heavy artillery and numbers just under 25,000 men and 108 artillery pieces. Here the red bar shows unit strength and the blue bar cohesion. You want both to be high. On the main screen a green bar can be seen, this represent supply levels.  I order our offensives We also have 1 Armee, commanded by the much more aggressive Von Kluck. They will attack the Russian forces with support.  The other forces will begin to move on Objective towns.  3 Armee will march on Mlawa supported by XII Korps.  8 Armee has not yet finished forming up.  The only active Austrian Army (I'm going to drop the Hungarian for the most part to save on typing.) is 5 Armee, they will move forwards to engage the Russians at Kaminiets.  A few Korps are going to make sneaky attempts to overrun Russian forts and towns before they can be properly manned. We will see how this goes.  On the Serbian front, 6 Armee is formed, but inactive, so I send some Corps forwards to occupy defensive positions.  Moves on the Western front are limited to using the two movable units to fill gaps in the line.  I order some more units for the Western and Serbian fronts, but most of my money goes on stocking up on replacements for the incoming losses.  Although not of much use at this stage, I should show you the diplomacy and research board rather than being a separate screen, these are off at the top of the map! Time to see how these orders play out. I have to say I'm nervous about this.  The first battle is fought on the 7th of August, as Von Kluck overwhelms Rannenkamph and his armies.  One of our Austrian Korps commanders sees off some Serbian cavalry with heavy losses.  The other Korps commander has to call in support from the main army to defeat the Serbian attack.  Ferdinand Von is slow to move, and finds an entire Russian army waiting in the Dubno forts.   The Eastern front is ablaze. The Russians are advancing where they can.  This means that Hindenburg has taken up control of 8 Armee!  That's the expression of a man who expects to kill a lot of Russians.  The French mass, but as yet don't attack. Our men begin to dig in.  It also looks like the Serbians are not willing to just sit back.  This map shows the dispositions of units. Poorly, but its the best I have.  That is enough for now, I've done a lot of organising to get this moving. But I will take suggestions on how to proceed from here. Also, Do we wish to commit resources to getting the Ottoman Empire into the war quickly?  Two weeks into the war, 70,000 casualties. This is going to be a bloody one and the French have done nothing so far!
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Mar 30, 2017 05:49
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That map screen should be using the 48-star flag for the US and the Beiyang flag for China.  Pull the Turks in ASAP, we need
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Mar 30, 2017 06:01
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Do we really need the Ottomans in quick? It might antagonize the British, and the only benefit is them maybe harassing the Serbs we already have under control. I guess technically they can threaten the Russians through the Caucuses too but ehhhh I'd still rather keep the money/ships.
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Mar 30, 2017 06:08
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I mean the ships aren't really going to swing the war, if we get turkey on our side we can throw more bodies at Russia and Serbia and try to finish them off quickly, sure the Ottomans will get hosed up by the british, but those are still troops that aren't going to be doing useful things like attacking Germany. Also we should totally start bribing Italy and get them into the war too except on the side they are actually supposed to be on (loving cowards) They have abysmal leadership, but might as well have them die in droves in the French Alps instead of the Austrian Alps. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 06:10
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Would it antagonize the English? If not, then we should do it as fast as possible because this is the great war and the only land taken is that which is taken off guard.
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Mar 30, 2017 06:10
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Is 500 funds a lot? The ships may as well not exist for all the good they'll do. Should be worth it as a honeypot for the British.
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Mar 30, 2017 06:13
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IF it antagonizes the English I'm still a "no" vote, because every extra day we can stay unblockaded is a little treasure. If it doesn't I guess we can go for it. Is it possible to take advantage of the window we still have of open seas to build up a stockpile of important things? E: that's a good point, what's 500 funds worth?
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Mar 30, 2017 06:14
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Added Space posted:Is 500 funds a lot? The ships may as well not exist for all the good they'll do. Should be worth it as a honeypot for the British. I'm making 600 a turn at the moment
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Mar 30, 2017 06:40
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Honestly getting the Turks in early gets the English aggressive more than likely and the only place that the Turks could really move towards would be Russia (through the mountains of the Causcus, which won't help much) and possibly Serbia, where we're on defensive anyways. Early on their help would likely be just peripheral, risk drawing in an enemy we wanted to try and avoid doing so and they only have narrow regions they can go for otherwise. Unless callig them in early lets us buildup thier army a bit more or get them better equipment via earlier commitment they only would seem to be able to commit to ancilliary fronts and not significantl. OTOH, 500 is not exactly a lot and if we get bonus from having them commit early or act as a strategic reserve, there's that. Is that likely to otherwise irritate the British diplomatically? But, otherwise, keep digging in France, digging deep! And get fortified along defensive terrain along the Serbian border and let the Serbs bleed white attacking.
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Mar 30, 2017 07:06
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Okay let's leave the Turks out until Britain is basically committed.
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Mar 30, 2017 07:15
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Do the British have any chance of drawing in the Turks while we wait?
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Mar 30, 2017 07:32
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"We have Serbs contained" *every Serb attack inflicts higher casualties than it receives* Way to go, A-H! What's the different between the upper and lower replacement windows? Also, what are the grey folding steel and GBA circles for?
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Mar 30, 2017 07:51
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In fairness the casualty ratios of the opening battles seem to have gone way more beneficially towards A-H than their first hsitorical invasion of Serbia went. OTOH, that was infantry fighting against cavalry probing rather than a straight up infantry on the attack. Hopefully as A-H mans a defensive line and digs in the Serbs can bleed themselves out - the Astrians have a much bigger pool of replacements than the Serbs do, so even that ratio is advantageous in the long term.
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Mar 30, 2017 08:27
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JcDent posted:"We have Serbs contained" Thats not true. The Serbians received over two thousands more casualties than A-H in festung peterwardein. After they had to call for backup of course.
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Mar 30, 2017 09:26
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If Grey thinks sending the two cruisers to Turkey is useful early on, same with the Funds go for it, we just tend not to get much from them coming to our side early - they share almost no borders I'm aware of with French colonies, we don't want to have them attack through the mounains into Russia, they have a very limited border they share with Serbia that we can use to put troops into if any and it will take them time to get there even if they commit. And it's likely to drive other nations to the Entente. The Turkish Army also is heavily infantry based and ot particularly well equipped so they don't bring a lot of firepower in historically. Also Britain can maybe mobilize a Corps in 1914 - a highly elite and experienced COrps but still just a Corps. They're dangerous by their Navy and the fact they can blockade the North Sea pretty much in perpetuity (well that and guarantee lots and lots of war loans and production). The longer they're not direclty supporting the Entente, the better. That means the longer (if modeled in the game, at least) that overseas markets are accessible to the Central Powers as they're not under blockade and can buy up war materials, the lower diplomatic support for the Entente (Britain has lots of diplomatic influence via controlling like a quarter of the planet they can call in) and the less brutalized the German Navy is gonna be. We want to try and keep them from diretly committing for as lon gas possible - we're not goin to keep them out, but they offer very little directly military early in the war so we have little to gain otherwise from pushing them.
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Mar 30, 2017 09:48
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JcDent posted:"We have Serbs contained" The upper white is the Austro-Hungaria pool. (is that even a correct plural, I'm never sure.) the second is the German. The other are for minor units.
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Mar 30, 2017 09:51
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We must convince Turkey to join the war so that the Caliph can rouse the Muslims of the world to Jihad against Britain and France!  Grey Hunter posted:
[extremely Hoffman voice] more like the expression of a man who's confused and tired and needs a nap
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Mar 30, 2017 13:32
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If we do not get the Turks in, how ever are we to slaughter infinity Australians!?
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Mar 30, 2017 14:06
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Am I reading this right? Serbia has the option to actually accept the Austrian demands? What happen if they do? Hundreds of turns of nothing happening?
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Mar 30, 2017 18:06
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Night10194 posted:If we do not get the Turks in, how ever are we to slaughter infinity Never forget.
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Mar 30, 2017 18:15
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Kodos666 posted:Am I reading this right? Serbia has the option to actually accept the Austrian demands? What happen if they do? Hundreds of turns of nothing happening? Russia feels threatened and unilaterally declares war on Austria I suspect.
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Mar 30, 2017 18:56
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Give the Ottomans the ships, but not the gold: we want the Turks to join us eventually, but we also need Bulgaria (who should join eventually themselves) to actually make good use of the Ottoman soldiers. Without Bulgaria, the Ottomans don't have a whole lot of options for moving about, but bringing Bulgaria in too fast means being forced to step on toes (especially Romania's). If we time things right, the Ottomans should have a path to both the eastern and western front just as they join up, which should be a nasty surprise to for the Serb's and the Frogs. The big question is where to send the diplomats to: Bulgaria and Romania are obvious choices, but there are good arguments for both Italy and Britain. On the one hand, Italy might be kept out of the war entirely, freeing up troops to deal with Russia and France, but trying to delay Britain's entry into the war give GH some early breathing room, if he's lucky. Of course, if the Entente moves to keep the Ottomans out the war, things might change; doesn't seem likely though.
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Mar 30, 2017 20:22
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Definitely do whatever we can to keep the Brits out for a few more months or whatever we can manage
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Mar 30, 2017 20:26
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Grey Hunter posted:
Jesus, so that corps is basically history. That's close to 50% casualties in men and about 25%-30% of guns lost. e: How are the Turks in regards to troop quality and commanders? Historically the Turkish army only really managed to put up a good fight in defensive operations in its own territory, they seem to have simply lacked the infrastructure necessary to carry through and support large scale offensives. Basically, are the Turks capable of carrying out offensives and moving large numbers of troops? Or can they only contribute as a distraction for the British Empire as they have to defend themselves against attacks in the Middle East and against a possible amphibious assault? Randarkman fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 21:14
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Randarkman posted:Jesus, so that corps is basically history. That's close to 50% casualties in men and about 25%-30% of guns lost. I wonder how 26K troop can wander into an army 7 times their number.
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Mar 31, 2017 07:54
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They had attack orders, for the unmanned fort. The AI is not bright enough to know that those were the orders, not to engage and entire Russian Army.... It should also be remembered that their troops at this point were still using mostly closed formation, and were criticized by the Germans for their lack of scouting. Grey Hunter fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Mar 31, 2017 |
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Mar 31, 2017 09:36
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Well, this was a form of scouting, wasn't it? We know where the Russians are now.
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Mar 31, 2017 10:36
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I mean, much smaller formations accidentally blundering into and engaging entire enemy armies wasn't exactly unheard of in the first few weeks of WWI.
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Mar 31, 2017 13:02
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  As council was against giving money to the Turks, I decide to only give them the ships there is little else they can do to survive in the Med. I also send a Diplomat their way.  I'm worried by the strength of French forces, so five more divisions are raised in the area. Boosted by three field artillery batteries.  In Serbia, O. Armee is active, and moves to support the 16 Armee-Korps. 15 Armee Korps is well set to deal with their enemies.  1 and 2 Armees are ordered to advance north and threaten Warsaw from the south.  The shattered 14 Armee-Korps is ordered to retreat while 3 Armee is to advance south of Dubno and meet up with 4 Armee. Together they will engage Ruzki and his army. 5 Armee in the south of the image will hold the Chotin forts and see if they can get the Russians to attack fortified positions. 9 Armee corps in the north east of the image will try and cut Russian supply lines/run into the next army coming south.  The German army is much more concentrated. Hindenburg will lead 8 Armee against Samsonov in Leotzen, and 3 Armee will engage the Russians at Tannenburg. (that sounds like a good place to have a battle!)  To make sure, I play the Hoffman card this will pin the Russians in place and allow me to smash them!  1 and 2 Armees will continue to smash into Rennenkamp and push deeper into Russia. With grand designs I shall strike at Minsk and Bielostok.  The overall plan is to take Brest Litovsk and cut off two Russian armies and a large swath of land. That is the planning over. Time to see what the attacks bring again.  Bruslov defeats Von Frank on the easternmost part of our front.  An entire army Korps sends wave after wave of men at a Serbian cavalry division and loses thousands for no avail! This is a disaster and the German observers begin to worry about the fighting prowess of their allies. The men advance as if this was the Napoleonic wars all over again, and are cut to shreds by artillery and machine gun fire!  They are also defeated at Kremenetz, but they give a much better showing and the Russians brought in a second army.  The Germans continue to advance.  The Russians push south from Dubnow, but the Austrian force they meet use massed fire to meet them and are able to turn them back!  600,000 men go into action as the French assault Metz. We kill the enemy at a three to one rate and a hundred thousand French casualties seen.  We win at Tannenburg.  The Austrians win at Zloczow.  Hindenburg all but massacres Samsonof.  He continues to keep up the pressure.   The boys on the French border continue to hold all they need do is bloody France a few more times as they have done, and the French government will crumble.  O. Armee is to cross the Sava and come at Belgrade from the south.  The main Austrian force is to continue operations.  5 Armee will hold position and try and bait the Russians into more fruitless attacks, while General FML (known to the troops as gently caress My Life) and 9 Korps will try and ruin the supply lines.  German efforts are to push south and continue the encirclement, with 2 Armee continuing to have Minsk as an objective once they take Kowno.  Kluck advances with losses.  The Russians counter attack in the north. We lose, but I see this only as a diversion to take their minds off the Warsaw encirclement.  Here I order our troops to do a long bombardment before advancing, and it seems to make up for the Austrian 's poor martial skill but I'm not sure how long we can do such attacks without using up all of our ammunition.  Lublin is quickly reduced and taken.  XII Korps gets ahead of everyone else, and is bloodied for it.  Hindenburg destroys Rennenkamp's army. Only the faster cavalry are able to flee the battlefield.  Von Kluck continues to push the Russians, back, but he is losing a lot of men!  In an unmitigated disaster, most of our U-boat fleet is destroyed by the British Battlecrusiers! I have no idea how this happened!  The forts outside Lublin are also cleared of Russians.  O Armee continues to hold.  We get the news that Britain is entering the war. We have taken a lot of casualties in the last month, but at least the enemy have taken many more Russian morale is starting to crumble.
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Apr 1, 2017 17:56
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 Yeah, you get the news that the British are entering the war when they rock up and sink the entire loving U-boat fleet! Grey, for god's sake, shoot your Admirals!
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Apr 1, 2017 20:16
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did you just have your U-Boats hanging around in the Channel for no reason? 
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Apr 1, 2017 20:28
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drat Russian spelling for Lithuanian city names!  Also, hot drat, Radomir Putnik. Outnumbered 10:1? That mean your K:D ratio will be 10:1! Should have gone with Eastern Enetente, they have some bad rear end Grandpa Coot generals.
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Apr 1, 2017 20:32
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I guess all our hemming and hawing about the ottomans was for nothing, good luck with the English!
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Apr 1, 2017 20:50
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Well, gently caress. That was pretty much all our u-boats, then?
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Apr 1, 2017 21:22
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Serpentis posted:
The Royal Navy is taking no chances with Grey this time.
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Apr 1, 2017 21:27
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