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Justin has a massive one on his chest and there's a locker room scene where a couple other dudes have them.
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Apr 10, 2017 02:48
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I went to High School with a "Bryce". I don't know where he is or what he is doing. He wasn't at the 10 year reunion. He was a scumbag and I hope he's changed.
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Apr 10, 2017 22:28
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SalTheBard posted:I went to High School with a "Bryce". I don't know where he is or what he is doing. He wasn't at the 10 year reunion. He was a scumbag and I hope he's changed. I've known two Bryces in my life - one was a year older than me in high school and was in the top 5 bullies, and the other was a sleazy scumbag that I worked with for a bit after college.
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Apr 10, 2017 22:38
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I feel like Bryce seems to be the most 2 dimensional/stereotypical of the characters because he's the only one of the group that didn't get to hear the tapes. All of the characters seemed a little shallow at the beginning of the show, but as each of them got the tapes and had a chance to reflect on their actions, and we, as viewers, got a more in-depth look into their lives, they started to come across as more multidimensional, deeper characters. Bryce never gets that treatment, so his character stays flat and distant to the central story.
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Apr 11, 2017 02:09
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Medullah posted:Hahaha yep I was on about episode 3 when I posted on the Couch Chat thread "Maybe this is old man Medullah speaking here, but do high school kids get all tattooed up including full tribal bands these days??? They weren't even seniors they were sophmores.
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Apr 11, 2017 02:43
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I'm pretty sure Justin was a Junior, maybe even a Senior. And I think the other jock dudes were supposed to be too.
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Apr 11, 2017 05:00
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Everybody was at the very least a junior by the end of the show. Clay, Hannah, Alex, Jess were I think all Sophomores-Juniors over the course of the show.
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Apr 11, 2017 05:08
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socialsecurity posted:They weren't even seniors they were sophmores. I don't recall where exactly the series was set (was it left vague?) but I grew up near the Canadian border and pre-9/11, you could breeze on over and get a tattoo, since 16 is legal age for tattoos/piercings there. I got my first one as a sophomore; some people went hog wild. Then again there's always fake ID, the occasional unethical tattoo place, or so-and-so's older brother/friend/weed dealer was a somewhat competent unlicensed kitchen wizard. Barista with neck tattoos was really the only one that seemed really out of place to me.
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Apr 11, 2017 05:19
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The location was never stated outright, but it was filmed in the North Bay of California and had enough establishing shots of the geography and bridges and poo poo so that's where it takes place in my mind.
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Apr 11, 2017 06:34
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Kevyn posted:The location was never stated outright, but it was filmed in the North Bay of California and had enough establishing shots of the geography and bridges and poo poo so that's where it takes place in my mind. E: Er, I don't mean "Evergreen Terrace = Simpsons" or anything. Didn't see that at first. I just mean that it's a really generic name, and given that the show kinda goes out of its way not to date itself too much either, I don't think they had a very specific location in mind. AtraMorS fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2017 07:05
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i'm normally pretty okay watching uncomfortable or messed up stuff but man there were so many moments in this show that were just absolutely crushing to me. so much of it just seemed super real i guess.
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Apr 11, 2017 14:18
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Lovechop posted:i'm normally pretty okay watching uncomfortable or messed up stuff but man there were so many moments in this show that were just absolutely crushing to me. so much of it just seemed super real i guess. I thought the show was pretty stupid (the scripting and voice on the tapes etc) but I'm not American so the teen speak might have not rung true because of that. The last 5 episodes (or whenever it was that they showed Zach being 3d as gently caress) really sucked me in and made me think about all the content up to that point. Went from not thinking much of the show to thinking the world of it. The realism of things like the parents coming in broke me up.
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Apr 12, 2017 01:08
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How long are these tapes that the main dude can't just listen to them all in one night or over a weekend and has to go around asking everyone about them when they're even constantly telling him to just listen and shut the gently caress up
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Apr 12, 2017 07:37
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I think it's pretty obvious. He says several times that it is hard for him to keep listening to them because he loved her and had no idea the bullshit she was going through
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Apr 12, 2017 07:49
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He hasn't said that once in the first almost two episodes  also dialogue is fine overall but man the narration is sooooo bad oh ok he just said it
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Apr 12, 2017 07:58
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Escobarbarian posted:How long are these tapes that the main dude can't just listen to them all in one night or over a weekend and has to go around asking everyone about them when they're even constantly telling him to just listen and shut the gently caress up He does in the book. I think it's overall a stronger concept that way, and like 90% of the present day bullshit they add doesn't really enhance the narrative that much.
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Apr 12, 2017 08:03
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NOT SURE WHAT TO SPOIL HERE at this point... Read at your own discretion. I watched this over two days because I started watching at about 8pm and didn't realize they were an hour long and I just passed the hell out. i'm still processing, in a way, because I can't necessarily recommend it to anyone because I don't want to tell someone to watch "this show about a girl who kills herself and it loving sucks at times and it's depressing as all hell, but it's really GOOD?" I could not believe how much they made some characters turn from good to evil and vice-versa and NONE of it was cartoonish or even a Jamie Lanister version of "what a DICK!.. now I kind of get it". (book version) It was even more subtle. I particularly liked the actually hot, nice cheerleader and her story, not Jessica who was obviously cast for her ability to look really screwed up. I'm a catty bitch, but honestly, I kept thinking "why are these guys so hot for this trashy girl". The counselor was one of the weirder ones, because it came out of nowhere really far along, but still understandable a LITTLE bit in a funky way. It wasn't the best characterization, how they did that one, but it was still not out of the realm of possibility, the way they had set up the show from different points of view. I thought it was a really interesting take how Alex both looked and spoke a little gay and then wasn't? I agree with everyone that Tony was a pretty silly Magical Friend and it never really explained to a reasonable degree why he was SUPER AWESOME MAGIC DUDE that was friends with Clay from way back but was older but still in highschool and friends with everyone and a DJ with a rad car LOL. I also got a bit randomly irritated that he asked if Clay had ever seen a dead body or a crime scene and it's a big plot point, and it comes out later that he certainly loving has seen a crime scene. A really bad one. But it never comes up at the time. Honestly the moment that hit me the hardest was when in a really early episode, the principal had just randomly mentioned that they'd lost TWO KIDS in two months, and then when it happens, it's so weirdly off-screen for awhile and it was super sad.. but it didn't really concern Hannah herself, so I guess that's why it didn't get the major major screentime. Hannah's freakout about something you would totally just do exactly what the girl did, at the time it was happening was silly and abnormal. I just really liked the way they did the ultimate conclusion of that act, because it hit me in a way that most things don't? Maybe just because of who it was because I was trying to think the entire time of who was missing in the "current episodes" and it hadn't occurred to me. I thought that the last BIG thing that happened to her was kind of ruining the plot of a bunch of tiny things adding up to the spiral, but after thinking about it for a day or so, I don't hate it so much anymore. One big thing finally led to her actions but it requires the understanding of all the little things beforehand that were building and building, and she's never portrayed as a rational actor.. She's called a drama queen and someone that's just "hard to deal with" multiple times by reasonable people. I have a lot of other thoughts, but it's so late, they aren't going to come out well, and that's probably one of the big IMPORTANT aspects of this show was that it's so nuanced and actually really hard to describe. I'm tired. I think this show actually made me TIRED. I don't recall if that's ever happened before and it's different and exciting a little bit, but also exhausting. *edit* the HOTTEST guy that I ever met, sort of my first almost boyfriend that I never really got as my boyfriend, just a little kiss before he officially went out with another hotter girl in 11th grade. The most charming, every-single-person-that-ever-met-him was either in LOVE with him or friend-crushed him guy, he shot himself in the head about 3 years after highschool and we all sort of still knew him but nobody had any clue why he did it at ALL. I feel like the "we all sort-of still knew him" really resonates with the theme of the show.. just a little older and slightly different? That one still bothers me at random times. Even the most physically attractive PLUS charming person that everyone loves can still be completely broken or sad somehow.. Like it would have really only taken one person MAYBE, but are we all at fault in total? DoggPickle fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 09:20
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Oh and the criticisms about the main guy being one-dimensional compared to the other people, the more I thought about it.. he's not exactly one-dimensional.. he's not good with girls to a really awkward point, and he has almost visible hallucinations and a history of real panic attacks, which are the reason for his initially VERY SLOOOW listening to the tapes. He also does some very questionable things during his rage-period. SO maybe he's a white knight in the end, but some people actually are really nice people. Is there room in modern TV/Cinema/literature for good people? There are 15+ people who do terrible-to-bad-to-slightly crappy things and have clearly visible struggles throughout the show. Is it wrong now to include one person who generally does good? Last point. I could have done without Hannah's mom. Her final scene was fantastic, but also the most understated thing she did for the entire series. She's sad. I get it. She's sad again and her eyes are really red. I get it. She's a little awkwardly over-sad and her eyes are red. I get it. She's incredibly over-sad in front of people. Now she's sad and being totally unreasonable in court and to another mom and her eyes are red. Okay I'm sick of it, but I get it. Now she's SAD again and she looks even crazier. Ugggh it's not good writing anymore - it's just boring and awkward and she's chewing scenery now while I could be finding out what is happening with the actually interesting people. I also thought it dragged a bit from ep. 5? to 8? A++ though. Minor problems.
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Apr 12, 2017 09:58
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By the way, didn't Tony say he was the first on Hannah's death scene and called the cops? Cause later the parents are indeed the ones who find her
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Apr 12, 2017 12:38
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DoggPickle posted:Oh and the criticisms about the main guy being one-dimensional compared to the other people, the more I thought about it.. he's not exactly one-dimensional.. he's not good with girls to a really awkward point, and he has almost visible hallucinations and a history of real panic attacks, which are the reason for his initially VERY SLOOOW listening to the tapes. He also does some very questionable things during his rage-period. I think he was hallucinating because he was getting no sleep. It's no Machinist but I think that's what they're going for, I've been without sleep for only two days and it's crazy what your brain does to you. Add to that the usual teenager paranoia of fitting in and an extraordinary paranoia caused by "everyone has listened to these tapes and I'm in them wtf did I do" and you have a cocktail for panic attacks and general depression and apathy. That's my take on his behaviour at least. As for the mother, it's a pretty textbook pathological grief. She has no reason for what's happened, she was gonna be like that for a lifetime if she never got the tapes.
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Apr 12, 2017 12:41
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orange sky posted:By the way, didn't Tony say he was the first on Hannah's death scene and called the cops? Cause later the parents are indeed the ones who find her No, he arrived when the ambulance was already there. You may be mixing him up with Clay, who was the first person to get to the car accident scene and call the cops there.
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Apr 12, 2017 14:57
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As stupid as the idea of Tony is, I still loved him. He's a retro greaser gay Latino who loves Joy Division. oh... I just realized I like him because he's basically what I was in high school... except I was bisexual but Tony might be too for all we know
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Apr 12, 2017 15:29
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The hallucination stuff was a little beyond for me. I could get behind him mishearing people from time to time but Clay straight up has full on visual hallucinations that go on for 5-10 seconds at a time. Homeboy really needs to see someone about that.
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Apr 12, 2017 16:16
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precision posted:As stupid as the idea of Tony is, I still loved him. He's a retro greaser gay Latino who loves Joy Division. I didn't think Tony fit into the show super well but I did appreciate him as a throwback to the Grease/Hairspray era of teeny bopper media.
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Apr 12, 2017 16:17
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Ep 3 down and I feel like at least the main tragic thing is ultra predictable she's gonna get raped. almost definitely by that Bryce dude. What I don't know is why Clay is on the list, which is probably the biggest mystery for me.
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Apr 12, 2017 17:08
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Escobarbarian posted:Ep 3 down and I feel like at least the main tragic thing is ultra predictable she's gonna get raped. almost definitely by that Bryce dude. What I don't know is why Clay is on the list, which is probably the biggest mystery for me. At the same place as you, and largely thinking the same thing. Also, Alex is super gay right? Is that even meant to be ambiguous? My god the peer pressure stuff was being layered on with a trowel. (In Episode Three specifically, I mean.) Television really, really needs to dump that cliche where the teacher explains the theme of the episode as part of a lesson, only for the rest of the episode to demonstrate it. Just because Mean Girls did it well (EVERYONE SHOULD TOTALLY STAB CAESAR!!!) doesn't mean it was ever a particularly good idea.
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Apr 12, 2017 17:20
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Open Source Idiom posted:Also, Alex is super gay right? Is that even meant to be ambiguous? Nope! His sexuality is never explicitly stated (thank god for some restraint) but he definitely is straight/bi)
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Apr 12, 2017 17:22
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ep 4 hahaha even Clay jacked off to the picture
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Apr 12, 2017 18:21
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PantsBandit posted:Nope! His sexuality is never explicitly stated (thank god for some restraint) but he definitely is straight/bi) Oh, woah. I've completely been misreading his scenes up until now. (Still episode three) I assumed his bizarre, halting relationship with Jessica was out of a need to pass as straight rather than typical teenage neurosis. And his whole "want to hang out with the cool guys" was more of a sex / need to be straight thing rather than just wanting to be part of the cool crowd -- he has that line about really wanting to be around Justin in Episode Three. That and the hair, the clothes (which is totally profiling, natch) and that bit where Jess seems to suggest that he might be into bad boys during one of their first scenes. I guess she was talking exclusively about herself, though.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:47
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Open Source Idiom posted:Oh, woah. I've completely been misreading his scenes up until now. (Still episode three) I mean, you might not be wrong. Who knows with high school kids still trying to figure themselves out. At the very least, he seems to think he's in love with Jess anyways. Part of me thinks that they were trying to make a point though, that assuming someone's sexuality because they have "gay voice" or whatever and dress nice is kind of lovely and something that can lead to a lot of pain. Alex is a cool character.
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Apr 12, 2017 18:57
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Could be the reason he wanted to sleep with Jess so badly, to try and prove something to himself. I like that it's kept ambiguous. I honestly do like this show and will finish out the season but I keep noticing so much that bugs me lol. The dialogue can be really poor, the characters can be total idiots in that "if they spent 10 more seconds explaining themselves there would be less conflict but manufactured TV drama needs them to not do that" way, and the whole mystique behind Tony is super irritating. Also at this point I'm really hoping the reason Clay is on the tape is for being a useless stammering coward who doesn't act on his obvious feelings.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:02
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PantsBandit posted:The hallucination stuff was a little beyond for me. I could get behind him mishearing people from time to time but Clay straight up has full on visual hallucinations that go on for 5-10 seconds at a time. Homeboy really needs to see someone about that. I hate that whole "main character does a crazy plot advancing thing oh wait no he's just thinking about it and actually does nothing" fakeout trope and this show used it like ten times.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:04
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Yeah Alex is by far my favorite outside of Tony. He's super realistic and was able to pull off sounding like a teenager without sounding like "somebody wrote lines a teenager would say" which is VERY HARD TO DO. The show definitely wants to trick you into thinking he's gay, just like it kinda tricks you into making assumptions about his dad.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:10
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DoggPickle posted:I thought it was a really interesting take how Alex both looked and spoke a little gay and then wasn't? Alex is my favorite character. The actor (Miles Heizer, also good in Parenthood) really hit the right angle on it imo. The concept of trying to fit in, and kind of doing it, but also kind of being uncomfortable is enhanced by picking an actor with his voice/presence. And then having the character be straight adds to the sense of realness, because it adds to the justification of trying extra hard to be in with the popular crowd. He has to prove himself, maybe even to himself. It's interesting to contrast Alex with Courtney, who WAS gay but nobody knew, and the pressure drove her character. I also really liked Sherri. Cheerleader, popular, but totally outside of the "evil cabal" while she tries to make amends. Doesn't always do the right thing, but ultimately owns her mistakes. One thing that I enjoyed about this show, problems nonwithstanding, is the "everybody kind of knows everybody" sense. Like, there is "popular" vs "not popular", but the division isn't as strict as shown in other shows. Sherri and Clay make out, and it's not even that terribly surprising even though they're not in the same social strata. Factor Mystic fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 19:15
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Oh yeah, DoggPickle, what constitutes "looking and speaking gay"?
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Apr 12, 2017 19:17
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Escobarbarian posted:Oh yeah, DoggPickle, what constitutes "looking and speaking gay"? Ryan.
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Apr 12, 2017 19:39
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rock climbing thing in ep 8 is some dumb-rear end bullshit
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Apr 13, 2017 11:28
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Escobarbarian posted:rock climbing thing in ep 8 is some dumb-rear end bullshit Oh super
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Apr 13, 2017 12:26
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Lampsacus posted:Talking to this show with my psychology friends (clinical, etc) and they had some criticisms. Mainly that it should never be ok to show self harm/suicide/sexual assault etc on camera. I disagree. I also feel in this terrain you could criticize any attempt in any manner so in order for this stuff to be brought into culture we really need to just suck up the criticisms/messiness and just do it. Which is what this show does (well). I watched this the other week and I still can't decide how I feel about it. On one hand, it's a chillingly accurate portrayal of how many people come to commit suicide. On the other hand, purely as a tv show, it has a lot of issues. I guess I don't really know how to view this show. My criticisms are different if I view it as a sort of "documentary" than as if I view it purely as a work of fiction. From a realism standpoint: I was never bullied in school, but my brain really didn't like me from around the ages of 11-19. I had a lot of the same thoughts as Hannah. In my case, I was overly self-conscious and tended to overthink every little thing. That led to a lot of overblown things and I'd mentally place the blame on others (if that person hadn't done xyz, I wouldn't feel this way). I won't go into E/N detail, but my point is that I did kind of have a running list in my head and at one point did start writing down names and reasons on paper. I never went through with anything, obviously, but I fully feel where Hannah was coming from. I guess the main problem I have is how the show could be interpreted by viewers going through similar things. The show was sort of eerie at times because I'd find myself processing it as that 17 year old I used to be. Watching it as that person, it made me feel that I wasn't alone and that there are other people who have the exact same thoughts, feelings, and struggles as me. It also made me feel justified in my thought process. I wanted that ultimate "gently caress you" to those who made me feel the way I did; this girl actually did it, and it sent all of those people into disarray, just like I had wanted to do. I honestly think, had I watched this during my bad years, that it might have given me that last push. (Also if that worried anyone, that was purely me imagining how I would have felt at that age. That was a long time ago and I'm perfectly healthy now). From an entertainment perspective: I was visibly annoyed by every single character for the first 2-3 episodes. They were all being overly irrational, bitchy, and idiots in general. I mean, I get that people don't act normally after something like that happens, but it could have been written better. The writing in general had a lot of rough moments. I think the worst was when someone (Hannah?) literally said, "It's not you, it's me". Come the gently caress on. I did warm up to the characters by the end, though there was still too much teen angst for my tastes. While the inner-thought is realistic, the constant repetition of "If YOU hadn't done xyz, I wouldn't have killed myself" is annoying. You really wouldn't have killed yourself if your poem wasn't anonymously published and two people had been able to read your mind? That just breaks down into too many hypotheticals. Clay was always a good friend and was super nice to her, other than (e11 spoilers I guess)the bedroom scene, and even then he literally did nothing wrong other than not being able to read her mind. If Clay had done something super hosed up, then the narrative would have been "If you had been there for me through everything, I'd still be alive". Except, he was, and she's not. Again, I understand the irrationality from her perspective, but in reality, if someone is looking to blame others, they'll always be able to find someone to blame for something. With that said, the cinematography and overall direction was staggeringly good. Katherine Langford really deserves an Emmy for that performance too. I know Hannah annoys a lot of people, but the actress loving carried what was the most important part of the show. A bad performance would have completely changed the show. I liked the score a lot, too. The producers of this show have definitely played Life is Strange. Between the intro, the fluttery synth sounds and acoustic guitars, and the fact that "chaos theory" and "butterfly effect" are literally said out loud in the same sentence, they got a lot of inspiration from the game. Funnily enough, I think the writing and execution in Life is Strange is better. As much as I'm ragging on it, I did like the show. There's just so much going on that it's just hard for me to give a concise rating. Do I view it from a realism perspective? (in which case, 10/10) Do I judge it as a stand alone entity? (7/10) Do I judge it based on its depiction of the book? I definitely don't regret watching it, but it's not something I'm going to insist people go binge ASAP (especially given that a lot of my friends still haven't even seen The Wire or Twin Peaks. loving idiots). I'll give it another viewing later down the line. This might be one of those shows that takes multiple viewings to get a solid grasp on.
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Apr 13, 2017 15:10
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I'm not saying they definitively weren't inspired by LiS but your reasoning is like the people who thought Bioshock's battle of wounded knee was a Skyrim reference. I can't remember if I posted the anecdote in this thread yet, apologies if I did. My SIL recommended this show to us and when we got to the end we sent her a joke about needing to call a suicide hotline and it turned out she hadn't seen past episode 6. I had a moment where I thought about recommending this to someone but didn't because it's so full on. I feel like this show may end up being held back a bit in reach by that hesitation to endorse it to people.
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Apr 13, 2017 15:28
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