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Lima
Jun 17, 2012

So my father and his siblings have a saying regarding the long-closed family company - "Granddad was great at earning money - dad was great at spending them!".

How do you see the future of China being when the elite apparently is educating their kids to be incompetents and/or idiots? Or have this always been the case in some way?

Also my cousin is married to a lovely chinese woman who insists on putting their kids in a chinese school during their summer vacation in China (they live in London) so they can learn some DISCIPLINE and how to WORK HARD and SUCCEED (reading this topic have made me go :mmmhmm: a lot!). Do you have any experience with kids of expats coming back for summer schools/reeducation camps?

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Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Lima posted:

How do you see the future of China being when the elite apparently is educating their kids to be incompetents and/or idiots? Or have this always been the case in some way?

I expect a lot of the nouveau riche here are going to lose their money. There is no old money in China because of the revolution, so every fortune began with the privatization of property in the late 90s. People got lucky and managed to get control of their work unit housing, then when the market happened suddenly they had a bunch of property worth a bunch of money and hey, I'm rich now. In China, owning property is still considered the only real investment/form of wealth by most people. There have since been web entrepreneurs and stuff but the money all started with real estate. China has a gigantic real estate bubble which will trash an obscene amount of wealth when it goes.

My observation of the wealthy here is they spend like the money is poison and they need to get rid of all of it. I don't want to get too off topic but I don't see a lot of hope for the little emperor generation.

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005

DEATH TO AMERICA
:xickos:

Grand Fromage posted:

I expect a lot of the nouveau riche here are going to lose their money. There is no old money in China because of the revolution, so every fortune began with the privatization of property in the late 90s. People got lucky and managed to get control of their work unit housing, then when the market happened suddenly they had a bunch of property worth a bunch of money and hey, I'm rich now. In China, owning property is still considered the only real investment/form of wealth by most people. There have since been web entrepreneurs and stuff but the money all started with real estate. China has a gigantic real estate bubble which will trash an obscene amount of wealth when it goes.

My observation of the wealthy here is they spend like the money is poison and they need to get rid of all of it. I don't want to get too off topic but I don't see a lot of hope for the little emperor generation.

I don't see hope for you.

The Great Autismo!
Mar 3, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Grand Fromage posted:

I expect a lot of the nouveau riche here are going to lose their money. There is no old money in China because of the revolution, so every fortune began with the privatization of property in the late 90s. People got lucky and managed to get control of their work unit housing, then when the market happened suddenly they had a bunch of property worth a bunch of money and hey, I'm rich now. In China, owning property is still considered the only real investment/form of wealth by most people. There have since been web entrepreneurs and stuff but the money all started with real estate. China has a gigantic real estate bubble which will trash an obscene amount of wealth when it goes.

My observation of the wealthy here is they spend like the money is poison and they need to get rid of all of it. I don't want to get too off topic but I don't see a lot of hope for the little emperor generation.

The next generation will be alright. It's their kids that are properly hosed

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.
Each generation has to get properly hosed don't you know, in order for there to be another generation.

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005

DEATH TO AMERICA
:xickos:

The Great Autismo! posted:

The next generation will be alright. It's their kids that are properly hosed

What about your kids?

Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty
So, all these stories about kids that just come in and trash the place and don't pay attention to the teachers or anything, and how they have pretty much zero parental presence or supervision at home...I have to wonder, why do they even show up to school in the first place? Are there like, serious truancy laws there? Are the kids just too dumb to realize they could get away with not coming to school? I mean, I realize that in a good number of cases it's a boarding school and they're kinda locked in mostly, but I'm hearing stories from ones where the kids don't live on campus too...

The Great Autismo!
Mar 3, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Choco1980 posted:

So, all these stories about kids that just come in and trash the place and don't pay attention to the teachers or anything, and how they have pretty much zero parental presence or supervision at home...I have to wonder, why do they even show up to school in the first place? Are there like, serious truancy laws there? Are the kids just too dumb to realize they could get away with not coming to school? I mean, I realize that in a good number of cases it's a boarding school and they're kinda locked in mostly, but I'm hearing stories from ones where the kids don't live on campus too...

the classrooms have wifi and their friends, where else would they go

Fleta Mcgurn
Oct 5, 2003

Porpoise noise continues.

Lima posted:

So my father and his siblings have a saying regarding the long-closed family company - "Granddad was great at earning money - dad was great at spending them!".

How do you see the future of China being when the elite apparently is educating their kids to be incompetents and/or idiots? Or have this always been the case in some way?

Also my cousin is married to a lovely chinese woman who insists on putting their kids in a chinese school during their summer vacation in China (they live in London) so they can learn some DISCIPLINE and how to WORK HARD and SUCCEED (reading this topic have made me go :mmmhmm: a lot!). Do you have any experience with kids of expats coming back for summer schools/reeducation camps?

In regards to your first question, the real elites are having their kids honed to perfection. Our students are "elite" only because of how much money their parents have. The overall level of education in each family is usually fairly low. Their parents don't really care what the kids do because they know that enough money will buy them anything they want.

I have no personal experience with what you've described, but I guarantee your cousin and his wife and are wasting their money- unless the kids are learning Chinese really easily, in which case go for it. But, no, I don't believe most Chinese educational programs teach anything in terms of life or study skills.


Choco1980 posted:

So, all these stories about kids that just come in and trash the place and don't pay attention to the teachers or anything, and how they have pretty much zero parental presence or supervision at home...I have to wonder, why do they even show up to school in the first place? Are there like, serious truancy laws there? Are the kids just too dumb to realize they could get away with not coming to school? I mean, I realize that in a good number of cases it's a boarding school and they're kinda locked in mostly, but I'm hearing stories from ones where the kids don't live on campus too...

They frequently don't show up to school at all. We lost four kids from the sophomore class last year by the end of first semester. One girl quit school so she could follow their idol around Hong Kong. When we've occasionally had the chance to express concern at this, the parents come up with idiotic excuses- oh, he's too shy. Oh, he's studying for TOEFL (wtf). A lot fo them are taken out of school to "study" under the condition that they complete their coursework; of course this always leads to a situation where we're yelling at kids for not doing any work and they're yelling at us because they ARE doing work, it's just not YOUR WORK. I had one girl try to convince me that she couldn't turn in any papers for my class because her mom wouldn't let her use a computer, so couldn't I just excuse her from the assignments?

Kids in China seem completely in charge of their parents. That's just my impression, and I have no doubt that there are crazy tiger moms and/or awesome, involved parents here. But when you see a little kid screaming for a toy so loudly that he's turning red WHILE hitting his grandfather, and everyone around them-even strangers- just smiling with dopey, beatific love for this precious little angel, you start to understand why no one respects authority. To be fair, if I was an elderly Chinese person, I might think a healthy baby is somewhat of a miracle, too.

Additionally, just the fact that we're foreigners means we're stupider than Chinese people, and that we don't know how anything works. I'm being blunt because it's true. My boss has told me this more than once.

Example:
We had a problem kid last year who never did any work. He wasn't stupid, just lazy. His father came to a parents' meeting once and told me his son's bad performance was fine because he could just apply to a Canadian university, because apparently Canada=easier requirements. I told them that I myself had attended a Canadian university as an international student, and that actually things were a bit more difficult because there wasn't an essay or any consideration of my extracurriculars (this may have changed, I do not know) and that grades and test scores accounted for pretty much everything. The dad didn't believe me and just rolled his eyes. Smash cut to this year when the poor kid can't even apply to tech schools in Canada because...guess what, his grades and test scores are loving terrible and his IELTS was, like, a 3. Gee.

Fleta Mcgurn fucked around with this message at 03:17 on May 5, 2017

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


Choco1980 posted:

I have to wonder, why do they even show up to school in the first place?

I have been asking myself this question for years. I have no idea.

There aren't truancy laws, high school is not mandatory in China.

The Great Autismo!
Mar 3, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Grand Fromage posted:

I have been asking myself this question for years. I have no idea.

There aren't truancy laws, high school is not mandatory in China.

you guys are overthinking this. think about why you skipped school in high school.

i used to skip all the time senior year to go to jimmy bing's house, we played N64 in his basement, and would go to lunch off campus like it was this huge deal, usually going to taco bell or wendy's. life in 2000 was so good.

kids can go to lunch off campus if they want and they can play video games on their phones with their friends in the classroom using the wifi. they have no where else to go. are they going to skip class and go to a karaoke bar at 1:30pm on a tuesday? how many of your kids have super interesting hobbies like "i'd love to go climb a mountain" or "i love doing taichi"? i'm guessing not many. they all want to sleep and play video games. they can do that in the back of your classroom, surrounded by their friends, using their mobile phones, and they don't risk the chance of getting in trouble for not arriving at school in the first place. they are going to go where their friends are, which is in the classroom as well. they are mentally skipping your class, but physically there, which allows them to say something like "i was there in school" and on the surface what they are saying is true, so their parents, the admin or anyone else isn't going to give even half a poo poo. in fact they'll just think you're being the annoying foreigner by bringing your western ideal of education to them and making extra problems, that Wang Jinbing wasn't being the ideal student and spent a little too much time sleeping or on his phone.

there are definitely truancy laws at the schools, though they are unevenly enforced

Fleta Mcgurn
Oct 5, 2003

Porpoise noise continues.
I never skipped school in high school, but that's probably mostly because I was a huge dork and also there was literally nowhere to go unless you wanted to gently caress in a cornfield. Which is a terrible idea, because rabies. Also you can just gently caress in the art room storage room and steal paint because your art teacher is a BITCH.

I mean, so I heard.

RocknRollaAyatollah
Nov 26, 2008

Lipstick Apathy

The Great Autismo! posted:

you guys are overthinking this. think about why you skipped school in high school.

i used to skip all the time senior year to go to jimmy bing's house, we played N64 in his basement, and would go to lunch off campus like it was this huge deal, usually going to taco bell or wendy's. life in 2000 was so good.

kids can go to lunch off campus if they want and they can play video games on their phones with their friends in the classroom using the wifi. they have no where else to go. are they going to skip class and go to a karaoke bar at 1:30pm on a tuesday? how many of your kids have super interesting hobbies like "i'd love to go climb a mountain" or "i love doing taichi"? i'm guessing not many. they all want to sleep and play video games. they can do that in the back of your classroom, surrounded by their friends, using their mobile phones, and they don't risk the chance of getting in trouble for not arriving at school in the first place. they are going to go where their friends are, which is in the classroom as well. they are mentally skipping your class, but physically there, which allows them to say something like "i was there in school" and on the surface what they are saying is true, so their parents, the admin or anyone else isn't going to give even half a poo poo. in fact they'll just think you're being the annoying foreigner by bringing your western ideal of education to them and making extra problems, that Wang Jinbing wasn't being the ideal student and spent a little too much time sleeping or on his phone.

there are definitely truancy laws at the schools, though they are unevenly enforced

It's this. They're also aware that if they just show up, they get a degree or certificate and they can use that to go to a college somewhere.

I would imagine that because testing is so ingrained within the culture of China and the end all of everything today, the actual classes aren't what matters to people. You show up, you learn but if you can cram and get a good score, you won. These kids are kind of gaming the system and their parents have no idea what's up because it's all relatively new and they're rich, everything should be easy. It's not like the educational system in China was anything like this 30 or even 20 years ago and if they can buy their way into some fancy high school, why not a college. Colleges are a joke outside of getting into them in China too, it's not like in the US, so they think it's the same or easier because the SAT is nowhere near as bad as the gaokao and you can buy your way into college. These parents just don't realize they're not the Bushes or the Kushners.

Warbird
May 23, 2012

America's Favorite Dumbass

Mrs. Burd was carted off to a boarding school or something for most of her childhood. She's always been very fastidious about studying, so I guess I married an outlier? The in-laws are pretty well off, but I think they're somewhere in what accounts for upper middle class as far as China goes.

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.
I'm starting to think that there's some sort of synchronised cycle of poo poo with Chinese education, because loads of stuff in my school is wobbling as well. Fortunately, as with so many others in this thread, I'm moving somewhere else next year.

Anyway, I can set up a quick contrast here, because the place I am currently at (and soon leaving) is actually pretty good.
It is the 'American Program' in a mostly private-but-not-international school; an attempt to recreate the 'American High School Experience' in miniature. And, for better or for worse, they have largely succeeded.
The kids are innocent, enthusiastic, and genuinely are getting the equivalent of an above-average-but-not-awesome American highschool education. This is pretty easy for me to teach because US academic standards are lower than the UK, so it's fairly relaxing.
But yeah, we have an active student association that organises and fundraises for cool events, a student body that will mostly be able to survive in western college environments, and overall it's not too bad.

There is a price, however.

The school treats out little program (~75 students total, grades 7-12) as a trophy. A way to be able to say that graduates from this school (~1000 students) attend all these amazing colleges in the US &c! That's why we have such freedom to actually teach / discipline / help the students.
But, as a trophy program, we aren't a breadwinner. We're clearly profitable, but nowhere near as profitable as we *could* be. So what happens is, over a 3-4 year cycle, things settle in and get really effective; we get a solid core or teaching staff that are comfortable with the students and each other, wages slowly rise to retain everyone... and then the total staffing costs rise above some predetermined point, and The Purge begins.
I came in over the still-warm ashes of the last one, and I am checking out (instead of taking an insulting pay-cut) in this current one.
The parents flutter and squawk, but given that the average student is here for about 6 years, the parents will only actually see 1-2 purges affect their children, and that can usually be explained away.

So yeah, nice places can exist, but they are strictly temporary, and often maintained for non-obvious reasons.

Now, some might say that if you kept a solid core of staff, and achieved ever-increasing success over a, 8-year period, you could get the popularity and associated funding to grow the program until it filled the whole school. But that would require thinking beyond a 4-year timescale, which is - as far as I can tell - physically painful for people here. The only reason we manage 3-4 years at a time is because the overall management is from Taiwan, meaning that they are like mainland management in basic nature, just not quite as bad.

Teriyaki Koinku
Nov 25, 2008

Bread! Bread! Bread!

Bread! BREAD! BREAD!
Do schools typically have a/c? How is teaching in the winter/summer versus spring/fall (especially around Beijing)?

Acres of Quakers
May 6, 2006
Could you get away with hiding a cell phone jammer in the room somewhere? In the US the fcc will push your poo poo in for using one . Is there a similar agency there?

The Great Autismo!
Mar 3, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Teriyaki Koinku posted:

Do schools typically have a/c? How is teaching in the winter/summer versus spring/fall (especially around Beijing)?

yeah they do, pollution sucks but people will still open the windows. Even on bad pollution days the kids have to do exercises outside.

Usually kids get 4-6 weeks off for Spring Festival and 6 weeks off in the summer, more or less. That's my experience at least. It's been a few years since I've worked in the public sector, so I may be misremembering.

I'm at a University now and I have 7 weeks off this summer and usually 4-5 weeks for Spring Festival.

Fleta Mcgurn
Oct 5, 2003

Porpoise noise continues.

Teriyaki Koinku posted:

Do schools typically have a/c??

One of our schools does, the other doesn't. As TGA says, it's all moot because if you sit in a room with no windows open, you automatically die!

Right now nobody has any due to mouse poop. Yes, that's still a problem.


Acres of Quakers posted:

Could you get away with hiding a cell phone jammer in the room somewhere? In the US the fcc will push your poo poo in for using one . Is there a similar agency there?

School typically have them here as an anti-cheating measure. The "smart" school, which is a public school, uses them, so I doubt there's any law against it.

I've thought about buying one just for the office so that Tangy will have to go elsewhere for her loud-rear end phone calls!

Fleta Mcgurn
Oct 5, 2003

Porpoise noise continues.
By the way, I just wanna say how happy I am that we're getting so many different Chinar experiences in here. Thanks to everyone asking and answering questions. I'm actually learning a lot!

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.
I was informed that the obsession with open windows was based on (viral stories about) formaldehyde outgassing from newly furnished building interiors and doing horrible things to occupants.

No idea if that's true, and if so how prevalent it is, but it's definitely the perception among many people.
The less scientifically inclined just internalised it as "closed windows bad", though, and kept applying it to ten-year-old buildings that have no gas left to give. Although I guess that's when black mould spore buildup can become an issue, so...

Fleta Mcgurn
Oct 5, 2003

Porpoise noise continues.

Atopian posted:

I was informed that the obsession with open windows was based on (viral stories about) formaldehyde outgassing from newly furnished building interiors and doing horrible things to occupants.

No idea if that's true, and if so how prevalent it is, but it's definitely the perception among many people.
The less scientifically inclined just internalised it as "closed windows bad", though, and kept applying it to ten-year-old buildings that have no gas left to give. Although I guess that's when black mould spore buildup can become an issue, so...

Ahhh, I heard it was because places used to be heated with coal and people just got used to having the windows open. Both explanations make sense to me.

What I hate is when my coworkers complain about the bugs in the office while refusing to close the windows. :downs:

occamsnailfile
Nov 4, 2007



zamtrios so lonely
Grimey Drawer
This is an interesting thread! I actually work at the other end of the pipeline, I do international admissions for a large and popular (but not Ivy League) US university that gets a lot of international applicants. We're used to trying to navigate around some of the cultural issues that international students bring with them but we mostly only interact with those from a US perspective. Since we don't have funding for international undergraduates, most of our applicants are graduate students and the undergraduates we get tend to be children of the upper classes. You can really spot the ones who stayed in the Chinese bubble even though they did undergrad in the US and are therefore exempt from the TOEFL.

Ghostwritten essays also tend to stand out a bit sharply as well--if nothing else, they just lack the basic grammatical errors that even very skilled Chinese students tend to make. We don't penalize them for those, the point of the essay is to show some ability to construct a larger written piece and showcase their reasons for wanting to go to our university versus the many other less competitive institutions out there. A lot of the essays show signs of 'guidance', in that they were more or less given a template to follow and told to write engaging topic sentences but then they struggle with momentum and definitely cannot write strong conclusions other than 'please let me in'. I could also just keep a bullet point list nearby for most of them--piano, violin, soccer, tennis, yearbook, student council. Boarding school. Basically a checklist of upper middle class signals. I wonder how many of them are applying to my school in engineering or business because that's what they actually want.

Some of the essays show more amusing qualities. I found it really charming when I got an essay from a boy describing making a video tutorial on how to play Hearthstone for his class (he had to make a video tutorial about something) and another kid wrote about loving anime and hosting the anime club, then getting a girlfriend and learning not to identify with anime characters to much, to be more of his own person--I wanted to send him a prize for learning that one early. Others apply to things like special education after caring for an autistic family member, or similar stories that demonstrate some kind of genuine inspiration or commitment to their path beyond 'this is what is expected of me'. That Eunice Vi piece nailed what a lot of Chinese (and others but we get more China than anywhere else) essays struggle with, trying to show challenge in a life that hasn't had a lot of it.

You guys have written a lot about academic dishonesty. This is something we struggle with quite a bit. We've recently begun requesting admitted Chinese students to have their transcripts verified by an organization called CHESICC and their diploma verified by one called CDGDC. This is a really inefficient arrangement that seems to exist mostly to let both agencies get their shot at gouging Chinese students. The Chinese MOE (in conjunction with a group called the National Student Clearinghouse) asked us to do this as a pilot program a few years ago, and I'm not sure it actually does any good. My impression is that a lot of dishonesty occurs within the schools themselves, like when you all wrote about principals giving students passing grades despite them never even showing up for class. Would you say that's accurate at the university level as well?

Someone also wrote that they can't offer the SAT in mainland China at all due to dishonesty, is that really true? Could anyone elaborate on that?

I'm really curious about where some of our students are coming from and so stories about academic life in China are fun to read.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


The SAT cheating is so intense it's not offered in the mainland at all anymore, yes. Our students go to Thailand most of the time. Other Asian countries it gets banned occasionally, Korea it happens every couple of years and if you can't afford to leave the country to take it, welp.

Universities here are such a joke I'm not sure they even need to cheat. Once you get in, you're guaranteed a degree unless you are King Fuckup of Fuckup Mountain. Grad school is different but undergrad is four years of hanging out with friends and then you collect your degree. I assume that cheating is as rampant as it is in every other area of education, when anyone bothers attending class. I've noticed US schools starting to assume all Chinese grades and applications are fake, and that's unfair to the good students but I completely understand it and would do the same.

As for what they want... in my experience there are few to zero students interested in a business degree, but 100% of the parents give not a single poo poo and require the kid to go for business or finance. There are some students who actually want to do science or engineering and don't get pushed to finance. There was one student who wanted to go to art school and got into SCAD, that's the only one pursuing an interest without immediate financial gain. Money is the only thing mainland society values, so it's not a big surprise.

yaffle
Sep 15, 2002

Flapdoodle
I'm at a big fancy international school in a tier one city and I'm pretty sure we do SATs.

The Great Autismo!
Mar 3, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

yaffle posted:

I'm at a big fancy international school in a tier one city and I'm pretty sure we do SATs.

Not in China, you don't, at least not with the SAT that most HS students take. And if you do, the SAT board isn't accepting them. SAT 2 may be a different story, I can't remember. It's been a while now since I've had to deal with that.

Go ahead and try to register for the SAT in China. See if anything comes up.

edit: It may be restricted to Mainlanders, and maybe foreigners can take it in China. Boy, wouldn't that be a hoot and a half, lol

Fleta Mcgurn
Oct 5, 2003

Porpoise noise continues.

yaffle posted:

I'm at a big fancy international school in a tier one city and I'm pretty sure we do SATs.

if true, that may be why. Do you do them at the school, or at another location in your city? I'm not calling you a liar, but my students (at both schools) always leave the country to take their SATs.

yaffle
Sep 15, 2002

Flapdoodle

The Great Autismo! posted:

Not in China, you don't, at least not with the SAT that most HS students take. And if you do, the SAT board isn't accepting them. SAT 2 may be a different story, I can't remember. It's been a while now since I've had to deal with that.

Go ahead and try to register for the SAT in China. See if anything comes up.

edit: It may be restricted to Mainlanders, and maybe foreigners can take it in China. Boy, wouldn't that be a hoot and a half, lol

I'm basing this on them trying to get me to proctor the SATs last fall, has it changed since then?

Fleta Mcgurn
Oct 5, 2003

Porpoise noise continues.

yaffle posted:

I'm basing this on them trying to get me to proctor the SATs last fall, has it changed since then?

Whoa. Game-changer. :confused: Maybe it's province-by-province?

fake edit: Are you in HK?

real edit: Was it I or II?

yaffle
Sep 15, 2002

Flapdoodle

Fleta Mcgurn posted:

Whoa. Game-changer. :confused: Maybe it's province-by-province?

fake edit: Are you in HK?

real edit: Was it I or II?

Not HK, however there are "no" chinese nationals at the school...

Fleta Mcgurn
Oct 5, 2003

Porpoise noise continues.

yaffle posted:

Not HK, however there are "no" chinese nationals at the school...

Oooooooooooh.

...

...wow.


So, it seems like TGA was right.


I just asked three of my coworkers; they all said the SAT can't be taken in China. This is so freaking weird!

The Great Autismo!
Mar 3, 2007

by Fluffdaddy
The more I look into it, the more it seems that anyone other than a Mainlander can take the SAT in China, as long as they are at an International School that has the ability to offer the test there. However, it seems that even if the Mainlander goes to the International School, they still are not allowed to take the SAT in China.

That sound you just heard was me giggling.

How are Chinese discriminated against in China? I am really surprised I never knew about this, but I guess I would never have needed to know about it, because all of the kids that go to the International School of Tianjin were super shitheads and they were always drunk as poo poo at the foreign bars being totally and utterly cringy and everyone hated them. So I would have never really talked to any of them about this, I guess? I dunno.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


That's super weird. I just figured it was banned outright in the mainland, but the idea of it being specifically banning mainlanders is amazing.

Fleta Mcgurn
Oct 5, 2003

Porpoise noise continues.

The Great Autismo! posted:

How are Chinese discriminated against in China?

By not being Han :iceburn:


I was once accosted by a gaggle of drunk annoying international school kids in Tokyo. We threw pinecones at them until they ran away. It should be noted we were also drunk and it was Halloween and I was dressed like Courtney Love, so...went method, I guess.

Atopian
Sep 23, 2014

I need a security perimeter with Venetian blinds.
Yeah, at my school we have to do elaborate tricks to allow mainland students to take ACT or SAT without traveling elsewhere. Apparently it's a Chinese government thing. No idea if / how / why that makes sense, but it's the current state of play.

Warbird
May 23, 2012

America's Favorite Dumbass

Can't be upsetting the importance of whatever those tests are for getting a government position that they've been doing for umpteen hundred years.

occamsnailfile
Nov 4, 2007



zamtrios so lonely
Grimey Drawer
That is extremely weird. The Chinese kids I deal with are all applying to pay non-resident tuition in the US with no financial aid so I guess the expense of 'go to Thailand to take the SAT' isn't that big a deal but I did not realize it was generally unavailable on the mainland. Is the TOEFL still offered widely? What about the GRE?

Man do my applicants bitch about having to take the TOEFL. Even when they can barely stutter out a sentence to me on the phone.

Warbird
May 23, 2012

America's Favorite Dumbass

The wife and all the international kids I knew in school did a few sessions of English learning at our campus before doing the TOEFL. Is that not standard?

occamsnailfile
Nov 4, 2007



zamtrios so lonely
Grimey Drawer
Are you referring to the high school campus?

At the college I work for, there is no "bridging program" or "foundation program" as they're sometimes called, students are expected to have done the TOEFL and be ready to do university level work. There is an ESL program run by one section of the university but it is totally separate from and in no way guarantees later admission.

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Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


TOEFL you can do here, yeah. The SAT is the only test I know of that's strict enough on cheating to cancel in entire countries.

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