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Fleta Mcgurn posted:- People following you. How far do they typically follow and how long? Is it simply done to stare at you longer, or do they actually do anything to you?
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Jun 8, 2017 06:52
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simplefish posted:Also at the supermarket, "What has it got in its basketses?" is what you do when you see a Foreigner. Because I have obviously got access to the Secret Foreigner Repository, where I'm not gonna be buying same poo poo as everyone else in the same supermarket. The supermarket basket obsession also drives me nuts, but I just make a huffing noise and put my shopping bag on top, and they get the idea. I probably would have put that bitch's phone straight into her soup. I am not a zoo animal. I am not for public consumption. If she had asked, then it would be okay. I don't usually take pictures of people unless they're performing or I get their permission first, and I feel like it's horribly rude to do that. But that's just how I feel, and if it doesn't bother you, then I'm honestly envious! quote:I get this. I use it myself. If I can't think of anything to reply with to keep the conversation going, I pull a "Really?". The alternative is "Tell me a bit more about that" which just sounds job interviewy to me. It doesn't mean I don't believe you, it means gimme nore detail Yeah, but:  "Do you like Chinese food?" "Yes, I do." "REALLY!??!?!?" "...yes." "You eat Chinese food?" "...yes." "REALLY?!??!?!?!?!?!??!" "........................yes." 'WOW! FANTASTIC!" "Okay." "What is your job." "I teach science." "REALLY?!??!?!?!??!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?" "..................................................................yes."This is not a enjoyable sort of conversation and it takes a lot of inner strength not to reply, "No, I'm actually Imelda Marcos in disguise and I'm here to steal all your shoes and shove them up my rear end and dance around like a loving monkey and then I'm gonna steal all your rockets and go to SPACE." Kopijeger posted:How far do they typically follow and how long? Is it simply done to stare at you longer, or do they actually do anything to you? Usually just looking. Occasionally they might shout hello. As far as I can tell, it's just to look longer. There are not many foreigners in my neighborhood and a lot of the residents are older people whose newly-monied children have bought them a new place out in the suburbs, so I guess it's to be expected. Very few people are aggressive or deliberately unpleasant to me, and usually if I just stare blankly ahead and don't meet their eyes, they stop looking. I have caused a few motorbike accidents, and I once entranced an elderly woman so completely that she lost her toddler- kid was down the street and almost across the road by the time Grandma remembered her. I don't mind a look, even a sustained one, but so many people are literally slack-jawed with astonishment that it becomes very uncomfortable very quickly for me. Or when they get these huuuuuge smiles like they've just had an orgasm made of ice cream. Or the pointing- it's not polite to point at people here, according to my Chinese coworkers, so it is a bit irksome. Ziv Zulander posted:Let me guess, bad day? Not really (today is, but yesterday was pretty okay) but I had been thinking about the question over the past week, and I've had a legend of a bad week, so that probably influenced my mental list. But I do wish I had known those things before I started teaching overseas. Fleta Mcgurn fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 09:48
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By the way, I apologize if I'm coming off as too negative. Things are very difficult for me right now, health- and work-wise, and I'm generally pretty sensitive so I always sweat the small stuff. And just sweat. oh god so sweaty
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Jun 8, 2017 10:08
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With the photo thing, I can't turn back time, I wasn't injured, she was already embarrassed, and we'd have to sit together quietly seething or smiling regardless, so I figured why not take it lightly v vnot that I don't agree with you about not being a sideshow, but I guess there was also an aspect of me regarding them as visitors to my city, rather than the other way around, although they probably felt that I was the more Foreign simplefish fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Jun 8, 2017 |
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Jun 8, 2017 10:55
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simplefish posted:Something I notice here, which I'm curious whether it happens elsewhere in China, is that if I'm speaking English, or just being white in their vicinity, people switch to English. I don't mean service staff, but walking down the street, if the people near us realise I'm talking English with my wife, say the couple in front of us will start having their conversation in English, when moments before they were speaking Cantonese. Browsing in a clothes shop, tbat group of teenage girls hear me and my wife and suddenly all switch their conversation to English. In a restaurant, the table next to us - same. Actually now I think about it, there are always women involved. Groups of only guys don't do it.
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Jun 8, 2017 13:39
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No they aren't talking to us in English, they're talking to their (non-English) friends in English. I'm not 100% sure why but it's a thing I've noticed.
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Jun 8, 2017 13:50
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Fleta Mcgurn posted:By the way, I apologize if I'm coming off as too negative. Things are very difficult for me right now, health- and work-wise, and I'm generally pretty sensitive so I always sweat the small stuff. One local custom I appreciated in southern Japan in summer was it being totally okay to basically towel off with a little washcloth or something, everybody sweatin' so humid guh whereas in Texas (which is actually even hotter) you shouldn't be showing any glow, didn't you just totter directly from your car to the office what do you mean you walked to the post office that's half a mile away how uncivilized
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Jun 8, 2017 16:31
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simplefish posted:No they aren't talking to us in English, they're talking to their (non-English) friends in English. I'm not 100% sure why but it's a thing I've noticed. Best guess they're trying to be polite so you don't think they're talking about you. Okay-guess, hearing English makes them remember they haven't practiced it in a while and there's no time like the present? Idk. I just remembered my cousin taught English in Japan like 10~15 years ago. He's like 6'7" or something so people over there kept thinking he was an NBA player and kept asking for autographs. One time he got on the wrong train and it was a bullet train so he ended up out in the sticks somewhere far south of Tokyo. Someone saw him walking around, again assumed he was an NBA player, and invited him to dinner at their home. Afterwards they helped him find a cop and he got directions back. I don't remember any other stories but he did end up marrying a Japanese woman he met there. His sister is 6'8" and her husband is 7'2", she had to go there for work for a while, but I don't think they were asked to sign any basketballs.
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Jun 8, 2017 21:37
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occamsnailfile posted:One local custom I appreciated in southern Japan in summer was it being totally okay to basically towel off with a little washcloth or something, everybody sweatin' so humid guh whereas in Texas (which is actually even hotter) you shouldn't be showing any glow, didn't you just totter directly from your car to the office what do you mean you walked to the post office that's half a mile away how uncivilized Also the unironic use of fans. I resisted until two weeks into my first Tokyo summer, then I was fannin' away. I prefer fans to A/C, anyways. Brightman posted:I just remembered my cousin taught English in Japan like 10~15 years ago. He's like 6'7" or something so people over there kept thinking he was an NBA player and kept asking for autographs. One time he got on the wrong train and it was a bullet train so he ended up out in the sticks somewhere far south of Tokyo. Someone saw him walking around, again assumed he was an NBA player, and invited him to dinner at their home. Afterwards they helped him find a cop and he got directions back. I don't remember any other stories but he did end up marrying a Japanese woman he met there. This made me so happy!
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Jun 9, 2017 01:59
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simplefish posted:No they aren't talking to us in English, they're talking to their (non-English) friends in English. I'm not 100% sure why but it's a thing I've noticed. I've seen people do this in Korea. I thought initially that they were trying to hint to me that they'd like to join the conversation, but if was embarrassingly not the case!  Hahaha, still feel awkward about that one.
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Jun 9, 2017 02:01
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Common thing for people who are bilingual. I do this in Chinese with my parents/family. The language is interchangeable and it's just a accidental reaction to people around you (ie trying to fit in). It's probably subconscious.
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Jun 9, 2017 08:44
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They usually aren't bilingual. You'll just get some guy on the bus autistically muttering "hambaga... Obama..." to himself. It's very weird. Happened a lot more in Korea, here most people don't even speak any Mandarin let alone English.
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Jun 9, 2017 08:47
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Grand Fromage posted:They usually aren't bilingual. You'll just get some guy on the bus autistically muttering "hambaga... Obama..." to himself. It's very weird. Happened a lot more in Korea, here most people don't even speak any Mandarin let alone English. I fail to see how this is any different from a bus in the USA. Also on a more topical note, I browsed this because one of my cousin's (late 30's) was teaching internationally in Latin America, he looked around at places in China and all of the deal's he said felt either really poorly paid (worse than central america somehow) or incredibly sketchy... to a guy who has been teaching in places like Guatemala. He turned them all down and got a job in San Antonio, TX and after reading this and the GBS thread I feel like he dodged a huge bullet. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Jun 9, 2017 |
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Jun 9, 2017 09:43
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Grand Fromage posted:They usually aren't bilingual. You'll just get some guy on the bus autistically muttering "hambaga... Obama..." to himself. It's very weird. Happened a lot more in Korea, here most people don't even speak any Mandarin let alone English. I think this is just part of the audible subroutine of talking to themselves that a lot of koreans do flipping into english for a second bc you said some word that reminded them of a toeic class last year
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Jun 9, 2017 13:56
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Well, I read this whole thread in one sitting. It was fascinating! Has anyone done a similar thread for Korea/Japan? I'm curious about some of the differences and similarities alluded to in this thread.
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Jun 11, 2017 20:17
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Korea's largely the same except much less competent, and 99% of the teaching jobs there are elementary school English or elementary age cram schools. Japan I don't know.
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Jun 12, 2017 01:48
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Chaotic Flame posted:Well, I read this whole thread in one sitting. It was fascinating! Has anyone done a similar thread for Korea/Japan? I'm curious about some of the differences and similarities alluded to in this thread. If you have specific questions, go ahead and ask! There are at least two people in this thread who have taught in all three countries, and lots of folks who have taught in two out of three. Most of my info about teaching in Japan is probably a bit out of date, tbh; I left in 2010 and have only been back for a few weekends here and there. e: I hate it when people scream HELLLOOOOO at me as they go past on their bike, or out of the window of their car without slowing down. Why are you bothering? It's 8:30 AM on a Monday; just be concerned with yourself instead of yelling at random women on the street.
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Jun 12, 2017 02:34
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From talking to many people, my hot take is: Unless you are in an international school, teaching an international curriculum or teaching for a visa, as a teacher (qualified or not) you will be a fashion accessory for the school. Something to be wheeled out for events or meetings, but not really to participate in the system. This is for a number of reasons 1)the foreign teacher will get frustrated with teach to the test rote learning which is necessary to pass the zhongkao and gaokao. 2)The foreign teacher may do better than the Chinese teachers and face will be lost. 3)The foreign teacher will be gone in a year, so there is no point to building up relationships with him/her. 4)The foreign teacher may be bad at teaching and need support and direction which is mafan. Its better to ignore the problem because most schools have no idea how to manage foreign staff. 5)In general, the best and brightest are not coming to China to teach. Some have positive attitudes and life experience and get on with it. Some individuals have an attitude problem, and its more harmonious to just exclude the foreign teachers from as much as possible than take the risk of mafan. Unless you are teaching for a specific goal e.g. international qualification or good enough for a visa to somewhere and it comes with a grade you will be the ‘fun lesson’. In the fun lesson, you will have 10% never engage. 40% engage with one word answers or three word sentences in between popping up their heads from catching up on homework, playing on their phone and 50% who will engage as long as its not too much writing or call and repeat. You can have fun shepharding the rest to some goal with some patience. Out of all your classes about 30% you have to go prison guard, sit down, shut up, eyes front, watch Mr Bean to keep control of the situation. There will be in general no long term impact on their English ability, and a small chance for a low percent to be a bit more interested in the outside world for a period of time.
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Jun 14, 2017 02:20
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What's mafan?
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Jun 14, 2017 02:26
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Trouble: "Ho Maaafaaan"
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Jun 14, 2017 02:31
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mafan means annoying
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Jun 14, 2017 06:41
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Viola the Mad posted:What's mafan?  everyone in the background
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Jun 14, 2017 08:36
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How about teaching in a Best China high school? Or do they have equally bad problems?
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Jun 14, 2017 22:25
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Is there any market for an entirely western run english school in China that actually correctly teaches english and preps students for western universities? Or would that be illegal to open/operate?
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Jun 14, 2017 23:38
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Baronjutter posted:Is there any market for an entirely western run english school in China that actually correctly teaches english and preps students for western universities? Or would that be illegal to open/operate? That's what we technically work at, so, yeah. I have no clue about the legality, but I assume it wouldn't be possible without some Party official as its head. You could probably pay said official to more or less leave you alone, but that's not sustainable or reliable- they could easily have a spy in your midst, like "Bob" was at our school. The problem isn't that the resources aren't out there, it's that your coworkers think you are an asshat moron by virtue of not being Chinese. If you don't speak Chinese (or if, say, you've pretended not to understand any Chinese for two years...), they'll talk poo poo about you and your teaching and basically anything you say that conflicts with Chinese stereotypes and ultimately do their best to completely undermine your authority. For example: This idiot wench who teaches TOEFL writing for some reason, despite having the English ability of a grape, spent all of last year teaching the students that the words "sages" and "experts" are interchangeable. I told them that is not the case. They went to her and complained and she told them to ignore me. Just ignore the person who speaks this language a million, zillion times better than you ever will. I think this program would be great and work well if 1. We had admissions standards, 2. There were no TOEFL classes or Chinese teachers of English, and 3. If EVERYONE reinforced the behavior and discipline standards. The Chinese teachers absolutely hate to discipline any student for anything, even stuff that should technically get them kicked out of school. And it's very hard to discipline someone whose excuse is the same every time- "Oh, I didn't understand her  "- and who knows nothing bad will actually ever happen to them.I edited this post because my initial response was very terse and scattered (realized I had to leave for work in 5 mins right as I started writing) and bitchy. Well, bitchier. This is my two week mark. I am really happy about that. The TOEFL teachers are basically putting me through an Amish shunning right now, and I have no idea why. My husband's theory is that Wilma made me a scapegoat for something, since she has no problem doing that with everyone else in the office, and it was either believable or convenient enough that these people- some of whom I'd literally yelled at my boss for treating poorly during the Bob and Joe escapade, and who KNEW that- decided to believe her. Ah, well. Save on leaving gifts, I suppose. Fleta Mcgurn fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 01:27
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Here in Best China the schools that are (theoretically) properly run and teach to Western standards, aiming to produce well-rounded students who will get into American or European universities on honest merit are the international schools, which are only open to foreign passport holders. A lot of their students are dual-citizen holders of both Taiwanese and American or U.K. passports, sometimes because their parents deliberately flew to LA to have them. They're pretty good--not that they don't have their problems, but any high school can have problems. For the most part they have hiring standards comparable to schools in western countries, or stricter. They do pretty good work. Every so often you get a kid coming out of one of them who's been in an English environment so long they've forgotten how to read and/or speak Chinese. Teaching in a public high school here also has tighter standards than most jobs, so I haven't heard much about how it is, outside of some anecdotes from people who have done substitute work and said it seemed pretty much like a high school class in any country.
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Jun 15, 2017 02:22
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Even Taiwanese public schools, up to and including NTU are better than their mainland counterparts. Unfortunately, Taiwan has three problems going for it: (1) rote memorization (2) island country = a bit lazier (3) it continues to be influenced by mainland China In any case, many educated Taiwanese very much understand the role of American education and issues with the Asian system of learning, compared to mainland China.
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Jun 15, 2017 08:00
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Fleta Mcgurn posted:The problem isn't that the resources aren't out there, it's that your coworkers think you are an asshat moron by virtue of not being Chinese. If you don't speak Chinese (or if, say, you've pretended not to understand any Chinese for two years...), they'll talk poo poo about you and your teaching and basically anything you say that conflicts with Chinese stereotypes and ultimately do their best to completely undermine your authority. I mean no chinese teachers at all. Top to bottom managed and taught by western teachers. As if you picked up a good western high-school in its entirety and plopped it down in China. Basically instead of parents having to spend a fortune to send their kid to the US/Canada for school, the school comes to them.
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Jun 15, 2017 16:44
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Baronjutter posted:Is there any market for an entirely western run english school in China that actually correctly teaches english and preps students for western universities? Or would that be illegal to open/operate? Well, according to the first result from a google search on restrictions for foreign companies in china, 1421 consulting, May 2016 blogpost posted:Since many Western recent graduates start as English teachers in China, setting up a school might seem like a good way of improving their career. The restriction means, however, that the institution which provides the education must be in a joint venture with a Chinese party. Not only that, but the school’s headmaster or chief administrator must be a Chinese national as well. Lastly, the Chinese party should account for at least half of the members of the board of directors. In layman terms, this means that a school cannot be set-up by foreigners alone and a Chinese partner must be found.
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Jun 16, 2017 16:10
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ntan1 posted:(2) island country = a bit lazier Eh?   
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Jun 16, 2017 18:23
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Trammel posted:Well, according to the first result from a google search on restrictions for foreign companies in china, Nice, so they've legally ensured no one in China will ever get proper english education.
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Jun 16, 2017 18:36
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I read that as meaning "tropical island country" tbh and even that's only really true for some parts of Taiwan in my experience
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Jun 16, 2017 19:13
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I just found out that "Nancy"- who literally cried on my shoulder for two whole days, who gave me a leaving present, who I stuck up for and shouted at my boss over trying to fire- is the one who threw me under the bus regarding sick days. Nine more days until I'm out of here.
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Jun 20, 2017 07:35
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Fleta Mcgurn posted:I just found out that "Nancy"- who literally cried on my shoulder for two whole days, who gave me a leaving present, who I stuck up for and shouted at my boss over trying to fire- is the one who threw me under the bus regarding sick days. do tell
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Jun 20, 2017 08:05
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ladron posted:do tell Not much else to say, really. She pulled the ol' talk-poo poo-about-the-foreign-teachers-to-students-so-students-turn-against-them thing. So our classes went crazy and turned hostile towards us and everyone failed, and now the TOEFL teachers like Nancy (who apparently was the ringleader) are going to poach them for private lessons on the side while simultaneously continuing to sink this program by pointing to bad teacher evaluations and failing grades as more evidence that foreigners are dumb and bad at anything education-related. This is exactly the same situation that ruined the program at the "smart" school. Why don't these people just work at a training school if this is their mindset? It boggles.
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Jun 20, 2017 08:17
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Because they'll be teaching the 'stolen' students on their own terms, getting 100% of the fees rather than whatever the training school cuts them. I wouldn't say its personal, its just business and greed.
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Jun 20, 2017 08:40
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BCR posted:Because they'll be teaching the 'stolen' students on their own terms, getting 100% of the fees rather than whatever the training school cuts them. I understand that, but it doesn't lessen the sting any. I'm just going to paraphrase Mean Girls and say that my stomach feels like it's gonna fall out my butt.
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Jun 20, 2017 08:45
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Fleta Mcgurn posted:I understand that, but it doesn't lessen the sting any. what was the present? are you going to confront her?
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Jun 20, 2017 08:48
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ladron posted:what was the present? A USB with my name engraved on it. No, I don't want to confront her. She'll lie, anyways. I have three more workdays; I'll make it through. The problem is her desk is next to mine, and remnants of my Angry Punk Youth where shouting and aggravated mischief solved everything are hard to squash right now. I'm just gonna sit in the meeting room and keep plugging away at my curriculum dev project and not talk to anyone. e: It's better than the time I fought for this girl in Korea to get a job at my school because she had really good English skills and seemed enthusiastic, and they hired her, and she turned on me at the end, too. She spent my last six weeks in Korea sending me endless Kakao/CoolMessages about how I was a child abuser (I took away a kid's rubber band because he kept shooting it in his friend's eye) and a "bad/mean/dirty/promiscuous foreigner" (she started a rumor I was cheating on my husband...hahahah okay?) Basically women and I are like oil and water. I'm sure goons can relate  but seriously folks
Fleta Mcgurn fucked around with this message at 09:00 on Jun 20, 2017 |
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Jun 20, 2017 08:55
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Is it possible that it is your fault? If there are 2 independent incidents. Because then it seem likely that it is either you or the environment (Asian culture). As a racial Chinese, I wonder if you might have accidentally crossed a line without even realising it. For example, if you sided with the truth / what is right against her, even though she is your friend. Because there is a certain expectation that you side with your friends even when it is morally wrong. How strong this feeling is held depends on the specific culture, of course. But I imagine China being very Chinese, they probably have this real hardcore.
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Jun 20, 2017 14:20
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