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...if you're in IT lol http://www.businessinsider.com/caliburger-using-burger-flipping-robots-flippy-2017-3 http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/fastbrick-robotics-bricklayer-robot-hadrian-x/ Dank-rear end naming scheme on that bricklayer btw my dudes. Do discuss why $15/hr sucks and basic income rules. Do not discuss why robots will never be able to do X or Y.
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Apr 8, 2017 19:21
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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DeusExMachinima posted:...if you're in IT lol automated house building lol ok
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Apr 8, 2017 19:23
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See rule 2.
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Apr 8, 2017 19:35
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Only 15/hr for IT? Dont they know those certs take almost a week or two of work? 
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Apr 8, 2017 19:40
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See the thing i don't get about the opposition to 15$ min wage is the argument of "but McBurger will replace everyone with robots if you raise the minimum wage!!!" Okay? Why wouldn't they do so anyway? We are either speeding up the inevitable or it's a bogus argument.
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Apr 8, 2017 19:54
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The monkey paw is that in post scarcity society $15 an hour is the going rate for both Disney Land and all you can Pizza minature golf.
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Apr 8, 2017 19:58
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i dont want to live in a world where robots build our houses and cook our food, raise our children etc. I dont think they can do it better than people
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Apr 8, 2017 20:07
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White Rock posted:See the thing i don't get about the opposition to 15$ min wage is the argument of "but McBurger will replace everyone with robots if you raise the minimum wage!!!" You already beat the argument. They were developing touch screen kiosks long before their uppity employees got those liberal ideas about "living wages." Anyone who sticks by this argument is a lost cause and either trolling or too stupid to bother with.
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Apr 8, 2017 20:10
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White Rock posted:See the thing i don't get about the opposition to 15$ min wage is the argument of "but McBurger will replace everyone with robots if you raise the minimum wage!!!" Because, logically, Capital only employs people out of kindness, they don't want to cut costs, you see, they will just have to do it if you make their charitable employment of people too expensive.
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Apr 8, 2017 20:15
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White Rock posted:See the thing i don't get about the opposition to 15$ min wage is the argument of "but McBurger will replace everyone with robots if you raise the minimum wage!!!" Assuming that it is possible (a big assumption), they wouldn't do it if it were too expensive to implement and maintain the automated systems. Implementing and maintaining these systems isn't free and can be very costly.
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Apr 8, 2017 20:18
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Condiv posted:automated house building lol ok literally a video of a robot building a house and you say this TBH you might be right, we may just 3d print houses in the future. Why build a bricklaying robot when you can have a robot extrude a house instead?
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Apr 8, 2017 20:22
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Calibanibal posted:i dont want to live in a world where robots build our houses and cook our food, raise our children etc. I dont think they can do it better than people I'm sure there will still be people who you can pay to do those things if you want them to, as there are for things machines can do well today. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy my cheap robofood, robohouse and robochildren, everybody wins
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Apr 8, 2017 20:24
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bag em and tag em posted:You already beat the argument. They were developing touch screen kiosks long before their uppity employees got those liberal ideas about "living wages." Anyone who sticks by this argument is a lost cause and either trolling or too stupid to bother with. you'll see a lot of people say "Yeah, they've had touchscreen kiosks at my carl's jr / burger king / whatever and nobody uses them!" and that's really familiarity more than anything Out here in Tulsa we have a gas station chain called QuikTrip. They added a full service food counter at nearly every store, and while they have human staff on hand who can take orders, for the most part, 99% of people just mash the buttons on a kiosk. The employees just do kitchen duties between normal tasks. They took a whole fast food kitchen worth of jobs and made them into the side duty of a skeleton crew of gas station attendants. This is the future. Those people will all be replaced with machines eventually, too.
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Apr 8, 2017 20:30
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Mirthless posted:literally a video of a robot building a house and you say this Automation of house-building might make more sense if houses were totally standardized and were all produced in a handful of factories only in a couple of different ways, like cars. However, houses are almost all custom-built, they have a gazillion different configurations, sizes, ages, they are constructed in a variety of environments, and have to follow a variety of different housing codes.
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Apr 8, 2017 20:38
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silence_kit posted:Automation of house-building might make more sense if houses were totally standardized and were all produced in a handful of factories only in a couple of different ways, like cars. However, houses are almost all custom-built, they have a gazillion different configurations, sizes, ages, they are constructed in a variety of environments, and have to follow a variety of different housing codes. I work in real estate development, and this is not how it works. Houses may look like they're custom, but outside of a fairly niche market, houses are not custom-built. What you actually get are a number of floor plans based on square footage, with a few "elevations" for each which are minor cosmetic variations on each plan, designed to give the impression that the development has far more plans than it actually does. If each house were as custom-built as we'd like you to think they are, the cost of housing would be even more astronomical than it already is, and developers are always looking for ways to increase efficiency through standardization. When Mirthless talks about extruding a house with a robot, he's actually not that far off. Back in 2006 I visited a factory where they built "modular houses," constructing each level of the house on a factory floor and shipping them across the country to be assembled on-site. Back then they used laborers to construct those buildings in the factory, but there's literally no reason why they couldn't have the vast majority of the work done by robots and then given finishing touches and detailing by humans - and eventually even automating that work. And you know what, we actually built a subdivision using those modular houses, and they were really good. We had only one quality control issue with them, and it was the fault of the shipping company rather than the factory. By opting for modular construction we got our product for less money, in less time, without having to worry about the weather loving over our construction schedule, and people loved those houses so much we were still getting positive feedback on them years later. I can only imagine how the technology and practices have progressed since then. Within your lifetime, unless you become immensely wealthy, you will live in a house built entirely by robots, or printed by a machine. Hadrian won't do it in the US, because our houses are "stick-built" with wooden frames rather than laid bricks and the cost savings simply won't be there yet, but something will come along. It's not just inevitable, it's probably already working in a factory somewhere.
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Apr 8, 2017 21:06
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I don't know if I'd describe almost all houses in suburbia as custom built. More like a variety of layouts and options. Nothing a computer couldn't handle.White Rock posted:See the thing i don't get about the opposition to 15$ min wage is the argument of "but McBurger will replace everyone with robots if you raise the minimum wage!!!" Didn't expect accelerationism to show up so soon but we are living in the future after all~~
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Apr 8, 2017 21:08
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Thought experiment: lack of immigration reform and the presence of cheap illegals with no bargaining power is slowing adoption of robots.
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Apr 8, 2017 21:12
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bag em and tag em posted:You already beat the argument. They were developing touch screen kiosks long before their uppity employees got those liberal ideas about "living wages." Anyone who sticks by this argument is a lost cause and either trolling or too stupid to bother with. touch screen kiosks already exist in every fast food joint in america. they're called POS systems and only trained cashiers are allowed to use them because it's super hard to develop a UI that can do everything a customer might need it to do in a way that any joe burgerbuyer can instantly understand and navigate without creating a line apps that allow pre ordering are more of a threat to cahsiers than touch screen kiosks, which have been tested in fast food since the late 80's and have never been efficient enough to be worthwhile
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Apr 8, 2017 21:19
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New York is doing 15/hr, I think. There was a sign up in the subway about it during my morning commute.
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Apr 8, 2017 21:22
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Kestral posted:Within your lifetime, unless you become immensely wealthy, you will live in a house built entirely by robots, or printed by a machine. Hadrian won't do it in the US, because our houses are "stick-built" with wooden frames rather than laid bricks and the cost savings simply won't be there yet, but something will come along. It's not just inevitable, it's probably already working in a factory somewhere. yeah manufactured houses have existed in the us for 80 years. they're not new, and they're not popular, which is why they never gain much ground trailers are manufactured houses. so are lustrons, which are imo the best part of midcentury mass architecture and are the influence for the fallout 4 prewar houses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lustron_house   silence_kit posted:Automation of house-building might make more sense if houses were totally standardized and were all produced in a handful of factories only in a couple of different ways, like cars. this is exactly how trailers are manufactured. you have a choice between a singlewide and a doublewide (if you're really rich, a triplewide!!!) boner confessor fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Apr 8, 2017 |
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Apr 8, 2017 21:23
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DeusExMachinima posted:Thought experiment: lack of immigration reform and the presence of cheap illegals with no bargaining power is slowing adoption of robots. its the only reason we even have "custom built" suburbia anyway
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Apr 8, 2017 21:23
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Kestral posted:I work in real estate development, and this is not how it works. Houses may look like they're custom, but outside of a fairly niche market, houses are not custom-built. What you actually get are a number of floor plans based on square footage, with a few "elevations" for each which are minor cosmetic variations on each plan, designed to give the impression that the development has far more plans than it actually does. If each house were as custom-built as we'd like you to think they are, the cost of housing would be even more astronomical than it already is, and developers are always looking for ways to increase efficiency through standardization. I didn't know that. I thought that there was a pretty huge social stigma against pre-fab houses, and because of that they never caught on. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Apr 8, 2017 |
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Apr 8, 2017 21:29
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silence_kit posted:I didn't know that. I thought that there was a pretty huge stigma against pre-fab houses. there is, but you can think of it in three general tiers pre-fab and manufactured houses, like trailers. not desirable. this is where poor people and retirees live tract homes. big developers will buy some land, get a set of house plans, and build many copies of those plans. cheap subdivisions use the same two or three plans so every house looks the same. expensive subdivisions mix it up so that only one in ten or fifteen houses match each other, and you don't have identical houses side by side, but across the whole group of 200 homes there might be 20 that are identical custom built homes. this is when you select your choice of an already developed house blueprint, maybe making some modifications, or you pay an architect to come up with a brand new one according to your specs. the nicest but also most expensive options
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Apr 8, 2017 21:32
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It's gonna happen, but as a maximum wage.
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Apr 8, 2017 21:32
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boner confessor posted:yeah manufactured houses have existed in the us for 80 years. they're not new, and they're not popular, which is why they never gain much ground This is exactly the argument we had to overcome with our marketing for that product. Modular homes are not the same as what we traditionally think of as manufactured housing; for one thing, the results are much nicer. I don't intend to show the projects I've worked on in a debate forum, since that's an easy way to get doxxed, but if you're interested you can find examples of the form that are very, very different from Lustrons and their ilk. One of the styles that it lends itself to is a tall, narrow, two- or three-story townhouse reminiscent of the Painted Ladies that is wonderful for infill housing. Is it as popular as traditional housing? Nope, there's simply not a demand for it in the US. But the ability to construct homes that aren't just livable, but desirable, in a factory setting, is relatively new and gathering steam, and technologies like Hadrian are only going to accelerate the process. Edit: boner confessor's summary is a good one, with the note that there's a relatively recent addition of pre-fab houses that are equivalent to what you'd see in a regular middle-class subdivision. They aren't common yet, but if you live in an area that's actively building medium-density housing you've probably seen one and didn't know it. Kestral fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Apr 8, 2017 |
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Apr 8, 2017 21:40
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Kestral posted:This is exactly the argument we had to overcome with our marketing for that product. Modular homes are not the same as what we traditionally think of as manufactured housing; for one thing, the results are much nicer. I don't intend to show the projects I've worked on in a debate forum, since that's an easy way to get doxxed, but if you're interested you can find examples of the form that are very, very different from Lustrons and their ilk. One of the styles that it lends itself to is a tall, narrow, two- or three-story townhouse reminiscent of the Painted Ladies that is wonderful for infill housing. dont you dare talk poo poo about lustrons i understand what you're saying, i just want to comment that for the time the lustron was pretty standard for middle class single family standalone housing. it only looks antiquated or lower class in retrospect. but yeah prefabs nowadays can take on some radically 'unconventional' forms. or rather, they always could, it's just that the market was never there
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Apr 8, 2017 21:46
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boner confessor posted:dont you dare talk poo poo about lustrons Oh, certainly, Lustrons weren't bad houses for the time from what I understand. It's just as you say, that they were in a way too successful: they became, alongside trailers, the only things that people think of when you talk about building houses in factories, despite the technology and processes advancing enormously since the High Age of the Lustron. It's hard to get people to think of anything else, which makes a hard sell out of what should be a fantastic product for many low- and lower-middle income neighborhoods: inexpensive, sturdy, attractive housing with assembly-line levels of quality control.
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Apr 8, 2017 22:06
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Jobs requiring talking to other humans ain't going away anytime soon either. Linguistics is loving hard. We don't really have a great grasp of how natural language even develops much less how to model each and every idiosyncratic feature of language in addition to each and every idiosyncratic feature of raw speech output. It's getting better, and google/Siri/speech recognition is a hell of a lot better than it was 10 years ago, but this tech has a hell of a road ahead of itself. Regional accents are a thing and you can have some really significant variations that can colossally gently caress up recognition if not accounted for. And this isn't even accounting for non native speakers of an individual language that will bring their own variations based on exposure, skill level, where they learned the language, when they learned the language, male, female, age, etc. You "could" brute force store every possible syntax and phonological system for a language and some recognition systems try to do something like that, but said systems are still really limited in terms of requiring you to talk like a robot to them and can only perform one function at a time ex( Find x, Show me directions to y, what time does store close, what is the forecast for today). In general, your Mcdonald Bot will fail miserably at trying to parse something that on the outside seems relatively simple like: "Yea um, can I get a..... no wait. Yea a.... um 10 piece chiggen nugget and fries. I mean uh small fries with the um chicken nuggets. And a coke a ummm no umm a small coke. Diet coke. Ahaha Joe shut the gently caress up I know you're high as poo poo but i'm trying to order brah! Small diet coke and fries. And uhhh 2 cheese burgers! Two cheese with um no pickles."
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Apr 9, 2017 10:33
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I find the beauty with capitalism is, it doesn't matter if something works or not, as long as we save money in column X we'll fix the bugs later.
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Apr 9, 2017 10:38
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Avalanche posted:Jobs requiring talking to other humans ain't going away anytime soon either. Linguistics is loving hard. We don't really have a great grasp of how natural language even develops much less how to model each and every idiosyncratic feature of language in addition to each and every idiosyncratic feature of raw speech output. It's getting better, and google/Siri/speech recognition is a hell of a lot better than it was 10 years ago, but this tech has a hell of a road ahead of itself. Regional accents are a thing and you can have some really significant variations that can colossally gently caress up recognition if not accounted for. And this isn't even accounting for non native speakers of an individual language that will bring their own variations based on exposure, skill level, where they learned the language, when they learned the language, male, female, age, etc. This is an excellent point. One of the interesting developments has been changing the task to suit the labour type (human, automated or cooperatives) In the fast food ordering space the task is changed from on demand translation of verbal orders into facilitating the customer to input their order themselves. The customer still mumbles and changes their order and that is OK. Multiple input areas or they order on their phone. Automation is generally terrible at trying to do human tasks but if the task doesn't inherently require a human then it may well be changed slightly to fit Logistics is another area where the tasks are often radically redesigned away from human compatible to automation compatible. Automated loading / unloading docks for example, possibly attached to automated warehousing Mobile banking deserves a special mention here as it is a great, established example of a cooperative. Mobile banking staff specialising in loans or insurance cannot reasonably function without significant automation assistance but neither can the client be trusted nor reasonably expected to input the correct data themselves. This results in a cooperative, it cannot be reasonably fully automated nor a fully human task As a general rule tasks that can be completely well defined will be automated, tasks that cannot be reasonably defined will not be automated but there is also a huge space where most of the task can be defined. This is where we get the mostly automated service stations, where it is cost effective to automate most of the task but also cost effective to have humans handle the last small percentage We're always going to have jobs talking to other humans, as it is inherently a valued service to some. The tasks that have significant cost pressures or where it is not inherently required are likely going to lose it
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Apr 9, 2017 12:16
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The bugs are inherent to the system: QC and test-based dev is expensive so it wasnt part of any build of capitalism. planned obsolesence was used as the way forward. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 12:27
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Avalanche posted:Jobs requiring talking to other humans ain't going away anytime soon either. Linguistics is loving hard. We don't really have a great grasp of how natural language even develops much less how to model each and every idiosyncratic feature of language in addition to each and every idiosyncratic feature of raw speech output. It's getting better, and google/Siri/speech recognition is a hell of a lot better than it was 10 years ago, but this tech has a hell of a road ahead of itself. Regional accents are a thing and you can have some really significant variations that can colossally gently caress up recognition if not accounted for. And this isn't even accounting for non native speakers of an individual language that will bring their own variations based on exposure, skill level, where they learned the language, when they learned the language, male, female, age, etc. Except that particular job is going away right now, as I can walk into a mcdonalds and put my order in on a computer screen, and they only have one person working the cash and only as part of their duties.
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Apr 9, 2017 14:09
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i agree with the above posters, i cannot and will not talk to robots
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Apr 9, 2017 14:11
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Rigged Death Trap posted:The bugs are inherent to the system: Quality control and planned obsolescence came about around the same time actually
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Apr 9, 2017 14:42
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Linguistics have nothing to do with automation. It isn't about teaching computers to speak like humans. When put in that situation, human beings will teach themselves to speak like computers. You'll learn pretty quickly to say "CHICKEN. MCNUGGETS. LARGE. PIECE." or you won't get any nugs. Just look at how people have reacted to Siri and Google Home products. It takes like five minutes for people to start speaking the device's language.
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Apr 9, 2017 16:00
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the black husserl posted:Linguistics have nothing to do with automation. It isn't about teaching computers to speak like humans. When put in that situation, human beings will teach themselves to speak like computers. Hahahaha, no, people will just start going to the fast food places that don't make them talk to a lovely machine, and as soon as the business notices demand dropping off, it'll be back to people. You overestimate the average American. Remember, we elected Trump.
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Apr 9, 2017 17:16
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WampaLord posted:Hahahaha, no, people will just start going to the fast food places that don't make them talk to a lovely machine, and as soon as the business notices demand dropping off, it'll be back to people. Americans don't have Chip and PIN because credit card companies thought Americans were too dumb to remember a 4-digit PIN number
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Apr 9, 2017 17:20
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Dr. Stab posted:Except that particular job is going away right now, as I can walk into a mcdonalds and put my order in on a computer screen, and they only have one person working the cash and only as part of their duties. mcdonalds has been testing kiosks on and off since the 90s. there will still be cashiers for the forseeable future because most people dont like using kiosks also everyone always forgets that a significant part of any fast food joint's business is the drive through, where you can't use a kiosk or voice recognition as easily if at all
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Apr 9, 2017 17:29
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EugeneJ posted:Americans don't have Chip and PIN because credit card companies thought Americans were too dumb to remember a 4-digit PIN number Debit cards have 4-digit PINs already. The real reason was because it would cost banks more to support chip-and-PIN because they'd have to build out more infrastructure for supporting that. Main Paineframe fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Apr 9, 2017 |
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Apr 9, 2017 19:58
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Avalanche posted:Jobs requiring talking to other humans ain't going away anytime soon either. Linguistics is loving hard. We don't really have a great grasp of how natural language even develops much less how to model each and every idiosyncratic feature of language in addition to each and every idiosyncratic feature of raw speech output. It's getting better, and google/Siri/speech recognition is a hell of a lot better than it was 10 years ago, but this tech has a hell of a road ahead of itself. Regional accents are a thing and you can have some really significant variations that can colossally gently caress up recognition if not accounted for. And this isn't even accounting for non native speakers of an individual language that will bring their own variations based on exposure, skill level, where they learned the language, when they learned the language, male, female, age, etc. Wow this is all totally wrong and its pretty obvious you've never done any work in nlp poor have any idea what is currently in development. A lot of people here are really behind the times, like how in the automation thread they thought that driverless cars were decades away when in reality there's a very good chance you'll be riding in one, at least in major cities, within 6 years or less.
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Apr 10, 2017 13:28
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