|
guy who doesn't know the difference between fast food and fast casual restaurants: "I'M VERY ANGRY AT YOUR CHARACTERIZATION OF MOBILE APPS!!!!"
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 19:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 10:37 |
|
|
lol at the guy who consecutively failed twice in a row to read my simple post nagging others to calm down and focus whip out yr phone and request less salt, buddy (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 19:12
|
|
|
I feel like there's a big difference between "technology exists that can do _______" and "technology exists that can do _____ and also be effectively widely deployed and maintained at a cost lower than employing people at minimum wage." A lot of people seem to point out the mere existence of technology that can do a particular job as proof that the workers in question will be replaced, but it's a lot more complicated than that. I mean, this isn't necessarily saying that these jobs won't be replaced, but I feel like robots would save a lot less money in the context of a McDonald's than they do working in, say, a car factory, so the economic motivation to widely deploy them isn't as strong.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 19:15
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:I mean, this isn't necessarily saying that these jobs won't be replaced, but I feel like robots would save a lot less money in the context of a McDonald's than they do working in, say, a car factory, so the economic motivation to widely deploy them isn't as strong. there's also a struggle in terms of mental categorization. a robot is a machine that moves and does things, that takes a part from A to B to make widget C. a robot is not a pressure cooking deep fryer with sensors that alerts a human operator when its cycle is complete because it just sits there, though the degree of automatic production is largely the same
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 19:21
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:This won't actually happen because each individual employer has the incentive to keep their wages low and free ride on the increased consumer spending all the other employers promote. Were this true they'd be raising wages without being legally mandated to do so. That doesn't really wash. You're right that each individual employer has the incentive to do so, but it only works if everyone is doing it. Legally mandating it is the only way to ensure that their investment as a business will be good, that's why they don't do it without that. All of them are better off with a higher minimum wage law, not just paying their employees more money. I don't think we'll see fast food places pushing for higher minimum wage laws, but we might see them not push back against them so hard in the near future. It depends on how smart they are and how much attention they're paying. It should also be noted that the Seattle evidence has just shifted to an overall $15 minimum wage on Jan 1 of this year. They've been phasing in various industries, but the restaurant industry was among the first. It's probably too early to tell how it affects other industries. call to action posted:You both need to take a deep breath and read what I actually posted, I didn't say poo poo about phone apps or the "death" of anything, you loving retard. There's a context to the thread that you clearly haven't been paying attention to. It's your fault for not noticing it.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 19:21
|
|
|
Lol at the guy saying paying people in small towns more money would leave them worse off.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 19:24
|
|
|
LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:That doesn't really wash. You're right that each individual employer has the incentive to do so, but it only works if everyone is doing it. Legally mandating it is the only way to ensure that their investment as a business will be good, that's why they don't do it without that. All of them are better off with a higher minimum wage law, not just paying their employees more money. Even if businesses start supporting higher minimum wages due to a belief that increased consumer demand will outweigh labor costs, they still have an individual incentive to reduce their labor costs as much as possible. You would see firms supporting the minimum wage and simultaneously automating as many jobs as possible.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 19:37
|
|
|
Eventually, there will be no jobs. Not due to automation, but because the last man walked through the last twilights of his life and all human accomplishments will have been made moot.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 19:39
|
|
JeffersonClay posted:Even if businesses start supporting higher minimum wages due to a belief that increased consumer demand will outweigh labor costs, they still have an individual incentive to reduce their labor costs as much as possible. You would see firms supporting the minimum wage and simultaneously automating as many jobs as possible. That's true, but the level of sophistication you would need to fully automate a restaurant's back of house is so far beyond what we can do even now that it's sort of moot to talk about it. With that level of technology you're talking about a society we have no way of really understanding anymore. Also, the restaurant industry has already been adopting as much automation as is feasible, so this assumption that the back of a house in a restaurant is like your home kitchen is absurd and detached from reality. Those jobs that could be mechanized away are already gone, and those jobs that can be mechanized away in the near future will be gone regardless of what the minumum wage is.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 19:51
|
|
|
boner confessor posted:no, you're getting swindled by an impractical hammacher-schlemmacher device that resembles things you saw in cartoons as a child while ignoring that canned crab bisque has been a thing for 40+ years no you don't understand this one tree is a huge rear end in a top hat liar, gently caress the rest of the forest for having this tree in it!!
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:05
|
|
|
Freakazoid_ posted:no you don't understand this one tree is a huge rear end in a top hat liar, gently caress the rest of the forest for having this tree in it!! What was your original point about the automats, then? Back when this whole thing first started? Freakazoid_ posted:The automat was not fully automated. Human cooks were needed to make the food and put them in the slots. Like, what is the meaning behind this post?
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:05
|
|
|
Freakazoid_ posted:no you don't understand this one tree is a huge rear end in a top hat liar, gently caress the rest of the forest for having this tree in it!! i know it hurts to be wrong but doubling down is not the proper response. the robot arm thing is just a silly gimmick and it's the wrong tree to bark up to use your terrible metaphor because far more productive and efficient automated processes to produce food have existed for decades, they're just not sexy enough to grace the covers of your wired magazine subscription the future of automated food is not rosie the robot, it's further refinements to industrial preserved and processed food with simple heat and eat preparation. it makes no sense at all to design a robot to do what a human does better and more cheaply when you can design a robot that looks nothing like a human to exploit the efficiency of mass and continual production. you might as well say the future of automobile production is making a auto-matic mechanical man that builds a car one artisan piece at a time like human beings did before henry ford perfected the assembly line boner confessor fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Apr 12, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:07
|
|
|
A Buttery Pastry posted:It's gonna happen, but as a maximum wage. Don't have to pay slaves, which is the real winning plan imo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:13
|
|
|
People are going to have a hard time giving up treating servers like poo poo and being treated like royalty for ordering a cheeseburger because lording over a small tip isn't something you can do with a robot. Just adding "oh and the server was rude" isn't going to be the magical pass phrase to getting whatever you want and getting a little power kick over getting someone fired for perceived slights against you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:38
|
|
|
CubanMissile posted:People are going to have a hard time giving up treating servers like poo poo and being treated like royalty for ordering a cheeseburger because lording over a small tip isn't something you can do with a robot. Just adding "oh and the server was rude" isn't going to be the magical pass phrase to getting whatever you want and getting a little power kick over getting someone fired for perceived slights against you. This should never be the case to begin with.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:40
|
|
|
Covok posted:This should never be the case to begin with. people are assholes, turns out and it doesn't have to do with tipping, anyone who's worked in the service industry knows how incredibly rude and confrontational customers can be just because they can
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:49
|
|
|
boner confessor posted:people are assholes, turns out I know. I worked as a waiter, a deli worker, a stock boy, and a cashier.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 20:55
|
|
|
Covok posted:This should never be the case to begin with. But it is. When customers are fighting a losing battle with a manager over some ridiculous demand of theirs almost 100% percent of the time they tack on "oh and the server was rude" despite being true or not because it usually works. When I was a bar manager I got tired of arguing with people so I would just say the server will be "dealt with" and that would mollify them because customers will unabashedly lie about anything to feel like they're in the right with regards to food staff. Then I would tell the server not to worry, it was all for show so the customer wouldn't call the owner. Because the owner would simply fire people without much investigation. I once had this woman straight up talk poo poo to me the entire time I was making her drinks and then I couldn't take it anymore so I threw the drinks away and told her to leave. I'll never forget how absolutely ecstatic the look on her face was when it happened because she finally got we she needed to call the next day and try to get me fired. The only thing that saved my job was I told the owner she was mad because I wouldn't let her buy food for the bums outside. Bums in the parking lot were the owner's arch enemies and he constantly complained their presence cost him business. Best thing I ever saw was a server who said gently caress it one day and wrote down her name in a piece of paper and told a customer "My name is Kelsea, if you got a problem write about me on Yelp." She had just gotten a new job and wanted to quit and having a customer call you out by name on yelp is a surefire way to get fired in the service industry. The hotel chain I work for now has automated the process and has data servers that will monitor social media so if you tag any Mariott brand on facebook or twitter and complain about a specific person it'll red flag that person and management will come and get you. Same thing with comment cards in retail. Anything less then 4/5 or 8/10 stars and you're practically begging for them to fire someone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
Automation isnt happening. Seriously it is loving baffling how this topic keeps getting brought up. I knew it was hyped up on places like reddit but I thought a dead gay forum would have better standards. We are centuries away from automating away all jobs or even most jobs. Some of you guys some like Ray Kurzweil. Robots cant do any of the poo poo that even a typical low-level fast food worker can do.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 21:06
|
|
|
Thanks for the laugh whoever posted that video of the forbidden planet soup maker. Like what does that do that a pan with a slowly rotating paddle doesn't? Oh wait, you're going to be able to download your favorite chef's recipes from the internet lmbo
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 21:42
|
|
|
ozmunkeh posted:Thanks for the laugh whoever posted that video of the forbidden planet soup maker. Like what does that do that a pan with a slowly rotating paddle doesn't? Oh wait, you're going to be able to download your favorite chef's recipes from the internet lmbo you only have to eat like 2,000 bowls of crab bisque while doing all the prep and cleanup for it to break even. why thats practically nothing. its crab bisque for every meal for just under two years. the future is here
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:05
|
|
|
LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:People still have to make that food. Like, pointing to phone apps as the death of people manned restaurants is so loving backwards it's absurd. There are other pieces of evidence you can point to, like the above mentioned mechanization of salads and restaurants buying most of their poo poo from sysco, but phone apps is where you see it all changing? No one said it would lead to "the death of people manned restaurants", but it'll certainly do a fair bit to reduce front-of-house staffing needs! The fact that the restaurant hasn't been completely automated will surely be a great comfort to the three people still working at a location that used to employ ten people. The problem isn't automating away jobs, it's automating away work. I'm not really worried about waitressing being automated away so completely that "waitress" ceases to exist as a job. However, automation technologies can (and already do) reduce the manpower requirements needed for waitressing, causing general reductions in industry demand for waitresses because labor-saving devices have reduced the number of man-hours required to do the job decently.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:14
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:No one said it would lead to "the death of people manned restaurants", but it'll certainly do a fair bit to reduce front-of-house staffing needs! The fact that the restaurant hasn't been completely automated will surely be a great comfort to the three people still working at a location that used to employ ten people. LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Also, the restaurant industry has already been adopting as much automation as is feasible, so this assumption that the back of a house in a restaurant is like your home kitchen is absurd and detached from reality. Those jobs that could be mechanized away are already gone, and those jobs that can be mechanized away in the near future will be gone regardless of what the minumum wage is. This applies to front of house as well. The kiosks everyone is talking about is an attempt to automate FoH. Let's also put this into perspective: Wait staff already has an exception to minimum wage laws because they make most of their money through tips. That isn't going away because it's close to free labor that improves the dining experience dramatically. This is on top of the idea that you can just start cutting foh jobs and it will be a huge change. Like, what the gently caress do you think fast casual is? Chipotle doesn't have waiters or a FoH like you would think of in a restaurant. They're totally different beasts and, and please pay attention this time, they've already been cutting jobs when then work can be replaced by automation. To use chipotle as an example, the closest you can get to a FoH employee is cash, because they handle the money and not the food and take care of the dining room when it's not in the middle of the rush. LITERALLY MY FETISH fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Apr 12, 2017 |
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
Blue Star posted:Automation isnt happening. Seriously it is loving baffling how this topic keeps getting brought up. I knew it was hyped up on places like reddit but I thought a dead gay forum would have better standards. We are centuries away from automating away all jobs or even most jobs. Some of you guys some like Ray Kurzweil. Robots cant do any of the poo poo that even a typical low-level fast food worker can do. Don't a poo poo ton of people in the US drive cars and trucks for a living? Seems like that's gonna be the "easy" thing to automate first. Already plenty of trials for that kind of automation in several places in america.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:21
|
|
|
Blue Star pops up in any thread where automation is mentioned, makes that exact same post, and then fails to engage with anyone who tries to talk to him. I have no idea if he's a gimmick or just a bad poster, but he's not worth responding to in any case. In the other automation thread he seemed to believe that automation literally meant human shaped robots.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:25
|
|
|
Paradoxish posted:Blue Star pops up in any thread where automation is mentioned, makes that exact same post, and then fails to engage with anyone who tries to talk to him. I have no idea if he's a gimmick or just a bad poster, but he's not worth responding to in any case. In the other automation thread he seemed to believe that automation literally meant human shaped robots. Technically we already use a lot of robots, but people just see them as "appliances." Now I'm just off to unload my clothes from the laundry robot that has caused so many laundresses to lose their jobs over the years.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:28
|
|
felat posted:Don't a poo poo ton of people in the US drive cars and trucks for a living? Seems like that's gonna be the "easy" thing to automate first. Already plenty of trials for that kind of automation in several places in america. Driving jobs will probably be the first real modern crisis caused by automation in the US. By the time it becomes an issue for restaurants we'll either have solved it or be in a dystopian hellscape.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:28
|
|
|
BarbarianElephant posted:Technically we already use a lot of robots, but people just see them as "appliances." It's also Excel and better data entry systems and a million other things that we take for granted. The idea that automation isn't happening (and hasn't been happening for basically all of modern human history) is pretty absurd and not something that I think anyone seriously disputes. Whether or not it's having a meaningfully negative impact on the labor market is another issue entirely.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 22:40
|
|
|
LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Let's also put this into perspective: Wait staff already has an exception to minimum wage laws because they make most of their money through tips. That isn't going away because it's close to free labor that improves the dining experience dramatically. Any evidence of this whatsoever?
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2017 23:00
|
|
|
LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:Driving jobs will probably be the first real modern crisis caused by automation in the US. By the time it becomes an issue for restaurants we'll either have solved it or be in a dystopian hellscape. Most of the nerds I listen to can't wait for this to happen and are convinced the ruling class will suddenly see us as human beings and give us the means to live lavishly while doing nothing. Seize the means of automated production and eat the rich, I say.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 03:50
|
|
|
it's me, a time traveller from 1999 ordering a sub at sheetz or wawa on a touchscreen
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 04:24
|
|
|
Polygynous posted:it's me, a time traveller from 1999 ordering a sub at sheetz or wawa on a touchscreen and soon science will perfect this technology and it will send all cashiers out of a job. surely the hardware isn't ready yet. any day now...
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 05:55
|
|
|
boner confessor posted:and soon science will perfect this technology and it will send all cashiers out of a job. surely the hardware isn't ready yet. any day now...
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 06:36
|
|
|
Oracle posted:Order it by app all you want, half the time by the time you show up to the place someone has nicked your food and you have to wait for them to make it all over again. They're not stealing food, they're disrupting the marketplace by redefining outdated ownership concepts.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 15:16
|
|
|
As a guy that's worked in trades , IT , and now manufacturing, people in general don't know poo poo about labor needs, costs, or treating workers with dignity. This goes doubly for anyone who works IT. The understanding of labor is so backasswards.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 18:49
|
|
|
BlueBlazer posted:As a guy that's worked in trades , IT , and now manufacturing, people in general don't know poo poo about labor needs, costs, or treating workers with dignity. An often misunderstood secret of life is that you yourself are dumb. As it is often misunderstood, most people don't realize how loving dumb they are. Hell, I'm loving dumb, but I bet I'm probably dumber than I'll ever realize. What I'm getting at is people are too dumb and unaware of how dumb they are to realize how rear end-backwards their views on labor are.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 19:38
|
|
|
call to action posted:guy who doesn't know the difference between fast food and fast casual restaurants: "I'M VERY ANGRY AT YOUR CHARACTERIZATION OF MOBILE APPS!!!!" The only real difference between "fast food" and "fast casual" is that the latter usually costs more, hope this helps. felat posted:Don't a poo poo ton of people in the US drive cars and trucks for a living? Seems like that's gonna be the "easy" thing to automate first. Already plenty of trials for that kind of automation in several places in america. That's not easy at all because a lot of what that driving is for is lovely local roads that are way harder to safely do a self-driving vehicle on, compared to nice wide open freeways with good road markings. So you end up in a situation where you'd still need to have a driver in the seat anyway to handle the non-freeway parts of the driving, so you don't really save any money. You can already pay a truck driver worse right now. You have to remember, driving is not something where you can automate 95% of it and then coast for the other 5%. You basically need to be able to handle 100% of it before you can actually get rid of the driver on a regular basis.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2017 22:37
|
|
|
Covok posted:An often misunderstood secret of life is that you yourself are dumb. As it is often misunderstood, most people don't realize how loving dumb they are. Hell, I'm loving dumb, but I bet I'm probably dumber than I'll ever realize. Oh I'm a loving idiot, I make that clear all the time. 15$ /hr is not that much and a business owner that cant afford to pay their employees that much needs to STFU and get out into the field and figure out why. If the sandwich shop owner is complaining he should probably be making more sandwiches himself. It's such a bullshit argument, it's amazing people let those business owners get away with it. Automation is also not a danger to the service economy. The gig economy is a bigger cancer on the work place. Paying every "employee" as 1099 is a good way to skimp labor protections and its ridiculously easy. Certain universal benefits like healthcare would really ease alot of the problems, but that's probably too much for this thread to handle considering all the fretting about robots taking our jobs. I mean really, raise your hands if you've actually had to hire someone not on Task Rabbit or Angies list.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 01:16
|
|
|
fishmech posted:The only real difference between "fast food" and "fast casual" is that the latter usually costs more, hope this helps. They're not going to automate the last 20 miles of the trucking industry, not at first anyway. The truck'll pull off at a rest stop and a human operator will take over. Doesn't change the fact that 99% of the miles are on the interstate going straight and steady for hours or days on end. It'll be enough to put almost all of the 3 million truckers in America out of work.
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 06:15
|
|
This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 10:37 |
|
|
DeusExMachinima posted:They're not going to automate the last 20 miles of the trucking industry, not at first anyway. The truck'll pull off at a rest stop and a human operator will take over. Doesn't change the fact that 99% of the miles are on the interstate going straight and steady for hours or days on end. It'll be enough to put almost all of the 3 million truckers in America out of work. My friends, the age of pirates has begun!
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2017 06:26
|
|
