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Mymla posted:I mean, you don't know the moveset of any boss the first time you fight it. This is a game with a lot of hard bosses, but crystal guardian isn't one of them. yes and in a game that requires you to learn and respond to boss movesets, a boss that kills you in 2-3 hits makes that particularly hard defining difficulty based on the experiences of people who have replayed a game lots or practiced all the bosses is valid but surely you recognise that this is not most people's experience of the game right?
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Nov 10, 2022 20:21
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In terms of danger zones, my favorite is Greenpath. But I actually quite like Dirtmouth. As for CG. He's pretty easy as long as you don't panic. Lots of safe zones. You can pretty much wail away at him if you are calm.
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Nov 10, 2022 23:09
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bike tory posted:yes and in a game that requires you to learn and respond to boss movesets, a boss that kills you in 2-3 hits makes that particularly hard I'm defining difficulty based on the fact that I killed him in a handful of attempts the first time I played the game and also on the fact that his moveset is really simple and easy to avoid.
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Nov 10, 2022 23:48
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Feels Villeneuve posted:To be clear I'm talking about enraged guardian and maybe it was just learning his cues but that's one of the only bosses in the game where it felt like I was just running into reaction time issues, specifically because he's not that hard to "learn". Oh yeah so enraged took me three attempts if my memory serves. I think you're absolutely right, the moveset is relatively easy, but it does trend to more of a reaction fight because the sky lasers are relatively random. Theoretically it's very easy, stay in front of him, jump the forward laser, dash the jump. But combined with the random lasers, you have a fight that requires good situational judgement. With practice that gets a lot easier since you just get a better feeling for the space you need to move into.
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Nov 11, 2022 00:32
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Also, can't you hang out on the right edge and he can't hit you?
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Nov 11, 2022 00:47
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bike tory posted:yes and in a game that requires you to learn and respond to boss movesets, a boss that kills you in 2-3 hits makes that particularly hard He has an easy mode version with the exact same moveset, the only difference being less downtime between attacks and more hp/dmg. It's not even like a HK/PV or DungDef/WhiteDef or Grimm/NKG thing where there's a big gulf between the two fights, he's literally the same fight.
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Nov 11, 2022 03:27
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Waltzing Along posted:if you are calm. Not happening.
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Nov 11, 2022 03:29
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just checking in is silksong out yet
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Nov 11, 2022 03:37
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Yup. We all played it, loved it, laughed, cried, and then they removed it from all the stores P.T. style. Sorry man.
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Nov 11, 2022 03:38
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What's interesting about Crystal and Enraged Guardians is that, while the fights are similar, they happen in different contexts. Both CG and EG have comparatively low HP and stay still a lot, so they can be damage raced easier than other bosses. CG has the occassional heal window too, so as long as you have a semi-decent charm setup, +1 mask and at least a +1 nail he shouldn't take many tries. If you attempt EG immediately as soon as he's available, he'll punish you for it. EG takes your comfort of knowing you can get by playing semi-okay and punishes you for trying to trying to coast by with double damage for every mistake made. This makes the boss feel much harder than it actually is, especially because it's probably the first double damage boss you'll face so it'll seem particularly unfair. The reason I disagree with calling EG a reaction speed test is that you don't need reflexes to beat him. You just need to stay still in front of that husk, slash away, and jump up when he tries to laser you horizontally. You might get hit by vertical lasers and him jumping on top of you, but it's less than the damage you'll take if you panic and run all over the arena trying to not get hit at all. Even so, they're two optional bosses in a remote corner of the map, in an area without a stag station, the second of which cannot be attempted on your first run through the area because it needs double jump, and double jump needs CDash that the area gives you itself. If you explore Kingdom's Edge before going back to Crystal Peak you can get Quick Slash and a +3 nail (the +4 would require you to climb to the top of Crystal Peak, alas) before you fight him. At that point EG becomes as easy to race as CG. Even if you're not that bulked up, you still should have better charms and abilities to help make the fight easier (double jump is really good for dodging both vertical and horizontal lasers at once with minimal movement, for example). Now Marmu, that spinny fucker is a reaction speed test. I couldn't reliable kill her until I had at least a hundred hours in the game. She no longer kills me, but she legitimately took me longer to learn than PV. GimmickMan fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Nov 11, 2022 |
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Nov 11, 2022 13:48
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Crystal Guardian is an issue not because it's an especially difficult fight, but because -- unlike nearly every other fight in the game -- he's guarding the only bench in the area. And a. it's a surprise fight, and if you fight him and lose you b. lose a lot of progress and c. have to fight your way all the way back before you can try again, which is both frustrating and makes it harder to get practice. I don't find Enraged Guardian all that difficult, because he's just the same moveset but faster, so if you've learned the original moveset, you just have to step up your execution. And the bench is right there now, so if you lose it's no big deal. We don't need to spoiler tag a game that's been out this long, right?
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Nov 11, 2022 14:49
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Arrhythmia posted:Yup. We all played it, loved it, laughed, cried, and then they removed it from all the stores P.T. style. Sorry man. ah, well.
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Nov 12, 2022 03:32
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guppy posted:Crystal Guardian is an issue not because it's an especially difficult fight, but because -- unlike nearly every other fight in the game -- he's guarding the only bench in the area. And a. it's a surprise fight, and if you fight him and lose you b. lose a lot of progress and c. have to fight your way all the way back before you can try again, which is both frustrating and makes it harder to get practice. I don't find Enraged Guardian all that difficult, because he's just the same moveset but faster, so if you've learned the original moveset, you just have to step up your execution. And the bench is right there now, so if you lose it's no big deal. There's a bench below him, in the dark rooms. If you take the lower route and follow the path of the conveyor belts you'll find that bench long before you run into the Crystal Guardian. CG and his bench aren't even in the required path to reach CDash.
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Nov 13, 2022 00:56
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Yeah, I know. Maybe I am overselling what I mean by "in the area." It's a decent hike back through some dangerous areas. Compare and contrast with almost every other boss -- Traitor Lord is an exception -- where the bench before the boss is, like, across the hall.
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Nov 13, 2022 11:32
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guppy posted:Yeah, I know. Maybe I am overselling what I mean by "in the area." It's a decent hike back through some dangerous areas. Compare and contrast with almost every other boss -- Traitor Lord is an exception -- where the bench before the boss is, like, across the hall. the parkour on the way to Traitor Lord makes me seethe.
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Nov 13, 2022 17:17
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If you aren't dream gating your way to Traitor Lord you are way better at this game than me
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Nov 13, 2022 17:19
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Traitor Lord without dream gate was when I "got gud" in my first play through. Definitely was the most frustrating bit for me.
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Nov 13, 2022 17:32
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I don't think I ever used dream gate in my first playthrough because I forgot it existed.
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Nov 13, 2022 17:52
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Worst boss corpse run in the game is Soul Master.
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Nov 13, 2022 18:50
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I simply beat traitor lord on my first try so I don't have to run back  I actually did this on my first playthrough, but I've never been able to repeat the performance
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Nov 13, 2022 19:30
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SirSamVimes posted:Worst boss corpse run in the game is Soul Master. Naw, it's Traitor Lord. Soul Master just is annoying but you shouldn't have any trouble getting to him at nearly full health/mana every time. Traitor Lord though...yeah. Very real possibility you'll screw yourself on the way there.
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Nov 13, 2022 20:23
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It's always so hard to pick which charms to use
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Nov 13, 2022 21:39
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Personally I kept dreamgate at a stag station 100% of the time on my first playthrough. I think the worst boss runs for me were Soul Master and Mantis Lords, not because they're inherently worse than Traitor Lord, but because by the time I did Traitor Lord I was starting to get good at the game.
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Nov 14, 2022 00:15
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It's probably a great credit to the game (and specifically whoever designed the boss fights) how everyone has a different nemesis fight. When I heard about people complaining about Soul Master I had to double-check, as I felt that was the most perfunctory of bosses, especially as it's gated by the Watcher Knights which totally stonewalled me. On my second playthrough I made a point to see if I was misremembering, but no, he died (as did his dream version) with barely a scratch me on me. Meanwhile, stuff like Brooding Mawlek absolutely humbled me, what the hell that's not even a real boss! The shaaame. Likewise, Grimm only took a few tries and I could almost swear NKG wasn't much worse (but I might be misremembering that!), but Zote will never fail to bust my balls and I took one-two looks at Sly and decided that I was done with the Parthenon business, lol.
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Nov 14, 2022 01:31
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Serephina posted:When I heard about people complaining about Soul Master I had to double-check, as I felt that was the most perfunctory of bosses, especially as it's gated by the Watcher Knights which totally stonewalled me. It's been a while since I've played but I'm pretty sure you can fight the Soul Master first.
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Nov 14, 2022 04:07
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Yeah soul master is not gated by watcher knights, soul master is a relatively early game boss and watcher knights are endgameish.
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Nov 14, 2022 04:25
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Whoops sorry, it's been a while.
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Nov 14, 2022 04:29
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Soul master can be difficult because you typically have 5 masks, have potentially missed the nail upgrade, and don’t know how to time healing yet. On subsequent playthroughs he’s very easy.
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Nov 14, 2022 04:59
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Yeah, I've had more trouble on his surprise phase than the early stuff one newer playthroughs.
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Nov 14, 2022 05:37
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On my first playthrough I had accidentally spoiled myself on the fact that pogo-ing off of spikes was possible and could lead to important stuff, and I ended up fighting Brooding Mawlek as one of my very first encounters. Definitely led to a weird difficulty curve
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Nov 14, 2022 05:41
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TheMadMilkman posted:Soul master can be difficult because you typically have 5 masks, have potentially missed the nail upgrade, and don’t know how to time healing yet. I think I reached him before finding the smith, yeah. Don't think I even reached the second phase before deciding to go explore more instead. Kassad fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Nov 14, 2022 |
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Nov 14, 2022 10:52
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A friend is playing Hollow Knight for the first time, and yesterday I showed her how to bounce off spikes. Five minutes of playing and I'm immediately all "oh I DEFINITELY should buy a copy of this for the PC so I can play it on my Steam Deck when it arrives, never mind the fact that I already have it on Switch and PS." Jonesing to play it again, folks. Game good.
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Nov 14, 2022 11:30
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Martman posted:On my first playthrough I had accidentally spoiled myself on the fact that pogo-ing off of spikes was possible and could lead to important stuff, and I ended up fighting Brooding Mawlek as one of my very first encounters. Definitely led to a weird difficulty curve Same!
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Nov 14, 2022 17:19
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Martman posted:On my first playthrough I had accidentally spoiled myself on the fact that pogo-ing off of spikes was possible and could lead to important stuff, and I ended up fighting Brooding Mawlek as one of my very first encounters. Definitely led to a weird difficulty curve I got pretty good at beating brooding mawlek after doing a ton of cursed randomizer seeds. Turns out forcing you to beat him with base nail strength, one hit death and only being able to attack downwards makes you pretty decent at that fight! Actually I wonder how hard a pogo-only challenge run would be...
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Nov 14, 2022 17:54
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Serephina posted:It's probably a great credit to the game (and specifically whoever designed the boss fights) how everyone has a different nemesis fight. It's super interesting. A lot of thought must've gone into all the bosses to make sure they test so many specific different skills, including where to place them and whether they're in the critical path or optional. It's the spirit warriors who make it the most obvious IMO (notice that, in addition to all of them having a single method of attack*, they're all optional so you don't have to pass the test if you really struggle with it), but it's also easy to spot in bosses like the traitor lord testing your use of shadow dash, to the point that IIRC they added his rage shockwave attack in a patch to make sure that skill does get tested. I imagine some of it is luck and/or the inevitable result of having 20+ unique bosses (plus a bunch of repeats), but I'd love to hear the logic behind their design. edit: *okay there's some exceptions in Elder Hu, Markoth and Galien having 2 attacks, but they don't diverge significantly enough to affect the point. GimmickMan fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Nov 15, 2022 |
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Nov 15, 2022 11:41
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Finally managed to beat NKG. The only thing left for me to do is Pantheon of Hollownest. Between NKG, Pure Vessel, and Absolute Radiance, though, I'm not sure I can manage it. I'm not liking the looks of Uumuu or Markoth in that pantheon, either.
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Jan 21, 2023 20:29
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Meaty Ore posted:Finally managed to beat NKG. The only thing left for me to do is Pantheon of Hollownest. Between NKG, Pure Vessel, and Absolute Radiance, though, I'm not sure I can manage it. I'm not liking the looks of Uumuu or Markoth in that pantheon, either. I still haven't done it. Markoth is loving brutal, worse than every other fight combined. Uumuu is easy imo.
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Jan 21, 2023 20:38
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Uumuu tends to give me a lot of trouble for some reason. It's the trailing lightning; I know I have to keep moving forward, but pretty often I end up either jumping/dropping off a platform into the pit or trying to double back when I run out of space and eat a hit that way. Add in the need to smack one of those jellyfish enemies into the boss and it just gives me fits. And sure enough, my first attempt at the Pantheon ended at the fight with the flying Nosk, which I entered with five health left after having a bad go with Uumuu. I was doing just fine right up until then. As for my NKG strategy, I found it helped me to hang out near the sides of the arena facing in; it made it easier for me to read his attacks. If he spawns on the ground near me, it's the dashing swipe. On the ground far away, it's the four bats. If he spawns in the air near me, it's the jump kick/dash combo. In the air far from me, it's the fire pillars. The balloon attack and ground spikes are obvious when he does those and are about as easy to deal with as in the regular Grimm fight. My charm setup was Mark of Pride, Unbreakable Strength, and Quick Focus. It definitely wasn't perfect, but the strategy helped after a dozen or so attempts lasting less than thirty seconds. The hardest part was finding time to heal; even with Quick Focus, it was tough. Meaty Ore fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Jan 21, 2023 |
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Jan 21, 2023 21:43
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The final five or six of the final Pantheon is so brutal. Failed Champion, GPZ, Markoth, NKG, Pure Vessel is an absolute murderer's row of fights.
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Jan 22, 2023 03:35
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No kidding. My Weaversong strat worked all the way to that point, but specifically Markoth into Zote just frustrated me immensely. They're two of the more random bosses that sometimes just hit you with nothing you can do about it while also pressuring you so that you can't disengage and heal. I can deal with them individually on Ascended but sequentially they ended a million runs. At first I thought the benches next to the healing springs were redundant but the flexibility they offer is super useful.Meaty Ore posted:Finally managed to beat NKG. The only thing left for me to do is Pantheon of Hollownest. Between NKG, Pure Vessel, and Absolute Radiance, though, I'm not sure I can manage it. I'm not liking the looks of Uumuu or Markoth in that pantheon, either. You can do it! I'm a terrible player and Pantheons 3-5 took me so long they basically doubled my playtime, but I did them even if I suspect it was pure muscle memory by the end.
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Jan 23, 2023 04:02
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