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krisslanza posted:Using the wild Puppets as an example, I wonder if that's what they want you to be around for the 'boss' fights, meaning they kind of want you to be 5 levels or so under them. But then again, not really sure, as being near the boss' levels makes them kind of easy. On the other hand, you can spend PP to boost your stats, so even if you are 5-10 levels under a boss (in theory) you can probably compensate that way... but then again, you only get all that PP from the wild Puppets, which means you're gaining levels as well... Bosses use PP too. By the endgame, every boss has puppets with S ranks in every stat and perfectly allocated PP. You might not have realized this yet, but you can only allocate 130 PP max, up to 64 in any one stat. If you're familiar with Pokemon, it's just EV except you can choose where to allocate it instead of having to do weird things. Also, you get way more PP than you need just from fighting all the mandatory trainers in your way. By the end of the game, even rushing through skipping as much as possible, you're going to have max PP on every puppet and nothing to spend it on, guaranteed.
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Apr 28, 2017 21:37
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KataraniSword posted:Ah, yes. The "Moonbitch" discourse, as I remember it from the days when Silent Sinner in Blue was getting translated. Toyohime and Yorihime's hate is, depending on interpretation, pretty drat justified - they show up, effortlessly curbstomp the most popular characters in the franchise at the time (Yorihime basically beats down Remilia and Marisa without breaking a sweat, and then proceeds to out-shrine-maiden Reimu when she's Actually Serious; Yorihime manages to take on Yukari and Ran at the same time with no issues whatsoever) and then proceed to do little more than smug themselves around the entire rest of SSiB. Their hatedom was pretty much inevitable from that point forward. Cries of "Mary Sue" and "deus ex machina" were (and probably still are) rampant. I kind of appreciated SSiB, because my take-away on it was that power levels are bullshit and just when you're getting ready to be dark and serious is probably a good time to have a drinking pool party. It seemed very Touhou to me. v  v
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Apr 29, 2017 23:58
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I said a while ago that I'd discuss status ailments when they become relevant, but at this rate I don't think they'll ever become relevant, so: Unlike Pokemon, a puppet can have two ailments at once. Not two or more, exactly two. So you can be both Burned and Paralyzed at the same time, for example. However, they also made each ailment have half the effect it used to have (broadly speaking). So Burn doesn't lower Attack anymore, but there's a new ailment called Blind which does. And there's a common move that applies both Burn and Blind at the same time, which replicates the effect of Burn in Pokemon. Likewise, Paralysis only halves your Speed, etc. Some ailments can be stacked twice for additional effects. In general, the good moves that only apply ailments cause two at once, while moves that deal damage with a chance of ailment only cause one. Here's a list a of them: Burn: Caused by Fire moves, and Fire Types are immune to it. Deals 1/8 of max HP every turn. Can be stacked to make it double its damage each turn (ie: the effect of Toxic from Pokemon). Poison: Caused by Poison moves. Exactly like Burn in every way, except Poison types are immune to it instead. Paralysis: Caused by Lightning moves and Lightning Types are immune. Halves speed. In the expansion, it can also be stacked to reduce evasion to 0. Weakness: Caused by Water moves. Prevents healing. In the expansion it can also be stacked, but I can't remember what that does because it's so absurdly irrelevant (apparently it makes moves cost 2 uses). Blind: Caused by Dark moves. Halves Focus Attack. Fear: Caused by Nether moves. Halves Spread Attack. Confuse: Caused by Light moves. 50% chance of doing nothing on your turn (you don't deal damage to yourself, you just skip a turn). Doesn't actually use up a slot. Stop: A special ailment that always uses two slots. It's Sleep. Dream types are immune. Clarste fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Apr 30, 2017 |
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Apr 30, 2017 03:28
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Clarste posted:I said a while ago that I'd discuss status ailments when they become relevant, but at this rate I don't think they'll ever become relevant, so: Ah thanks for that. I've run into some of those aliments, but I wasn't really sure... I mean, I knew what Burn, Poison or Paralysis did. But Weakness or Fear I wasn't so sure. Sorry I haven't been really showing the battles well 
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Apr 30, 2017 03:54
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I didn't mind the main characters getting trounced super hard in SSiB interestingly, probably because I'm a fan of the IN crew and it was fun seeing Remilia, Sakuya, and Yukari all get dunked on super hard. Also the scene where Yorihime just grabs and eats one of Marisa's stars is great. I do wonder if the fight would've gone differently on Earth though. Mokou is about where I stopped playing the game, I was actually severely underlevelled due to swapping my party out a lot and was too lazy to grind.
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Apr 30, 2017 05:45
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Having been inspired to replay this game, I can say that the level curve is actually broken in a really complex way. At some points it's too easy, and other points too hard. Mokou is definitely a roadblock for a lot of runs, because if your starter is weak to fire, it's easy to get into a situation where she just sweeps your entire team. And on my last run I got into a situation where I was 20+ levels above the bosses for half the game, but then the final boss caught up anyway and was quite a challenge (although partly because I was doing a monotype Nether run, and Nether is objectively the worst type for a variety of reasons).
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Apr 30, 2017 05:54
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On the subject of status ailments, it appears you can't game the system by using skills that have the drawback of inflicting a status ailment on yourself if the puppet has an ability that makes them immune to said ailment. That is, Continue (full status/HP heal then target is inflicted with Stop) fails every time if it is used by a puppet that has the Active (immunity to Stop) ability.
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Apr 30, 2017 13:55
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Yeah, that makes sense. Like how pokemon with Insomnia can't use Rest.
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Apr 30, 2017 14:58
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krisslanza posted:Ah thanks for that. I've run into some of those aliments, but I wasn't really sure... I mean, I knew what Burn, Poison or Paralysis did. But Weakness or Fear I wasn't so sure. I know you're going blind so you don't necessarily want to reference the wiki, but maybe you could point out/showcase any new moves or abilities or such? the lore dumps of the touhou's main counterparts are nice, but it would help show off the game more to focus on the stuff happening in battles, I think.
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Apr 30, 2017 18:43
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I honestly have no idea who's even in your party other than Mokou, and you haven't told us what moves she has or anything. And did her ability change when she changed Styles? They often do.
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Apr 30, 2017 22:34
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rannum posted:I know you're going blind so you don't necessarily want to reference the wiki, but maybe you could point out/showcase any new moves or abilities or such? I've been mostly just using the wiki to make sure I catch all the Puppets. But I'll see about that actually, I've been showing off the stat pages for the new Puppets to show the Abilities for that reason, but I should at least mention their alternative. And the moves is a good point, I should've done that like in OFS' Uranium... Clarste posted:I honestly have no idea who's even in your party other than Mokou, and you haven't told us what moves she has or anything. And did her ability change when she changed Styles? They often do. I'll go ahead and show off the current party, as of the end of last update, for the next then. Mokou's Ability didn't actually change for this one.
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Apr 30, 2017 22:35
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How much of the appeal of this game comes from hoarding silly hats versus actual gameplay? Seems very heavy on the former so far.
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May 1, 2017 18:10
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The gameplay is literally just Pokemon with some streamlining, such as being able to see IVs on the stat page, assign EVs freely, change movesets/abilities from anywhere, use tools instead of HMs (keep in mind that this game came out years before Sun and Moon), etc etc. Most if not all of its skills and abilities are clones of ones from Pokemon, and I'm pretty sure it uses the exact same damage calculations and such too. If you like the gameplay in Pokemon, you'll like the gameplay here. The level curve can be a bit screwy sometimes, but when it's challenging it's challenging, and I personally find that kind of thing fun. It helps that, unlike Pokemon, bosses tend to use their friends instead of focusing on a single Type, so you don't get into the situation where you just switch in one guy to steamroll an entire dungeon. It also uses the Set rule from Pokemon (cannot switch for free after KOing an enemy) instead of the Switch rule, which I didn't really realize until I played this completely breaks Pokemon in two. There's a lot of strategy involved in switching, which I find interesting. Personally, I've played this game a lot, like a dozen times or so, and I get most of my enjoyment from making weird gimmick teams. Like all fairies, or all redheads. Once I made a team using a random number generator. I... probably wouldn't have bothered if I wasn't already a fan of Touhou, but I've also abandoned more terrible Touhou fangames than I can count so it must be doing something right. It also seems to have been designed with a competitive scene in mind, for whatever that's worth. Edit: I would say its biggest flaws are terrible dungeon design (somewhat fixed in the expansion), some strange choices for the type chart (why is Nether so awful?), and perhaps most importantly the fact that it's impossible to tell a puppet's type just by looking at it. Which was made even worse by the expansion, which added an extra style to every single puppet. One of the first patches added a "splash" effect that showed you the type of an evolved puppet when they enter the battle, but it's only their primary type so it's still a guessing game. And/or a "look them up on the wiki" game. Clarste fucked around with this message at 19:13 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 18:59
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Also, maybe it's just me but I don't think collecting/hoarding is actually a big thing in this game at all. You've got your 2% rares and whatnot, but there are no legendaries or event puppets, and even the rares can be chosen as your starter if you don't want to bother finding them. And I don't think you can even trade with other people at all? Getting a 100% compendium is so trivial that it's not really engaging, imo.
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May 1, 2017 19:37
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I get wanting to make the game their own and "styles" are probably more interesting gameplay wise especially since every puppet gets one, but it is a shame they didn't do what the old gba romhacks did and make them "evolutions" with different sprites and such. Do any of the enemies in this game use the costume function?
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May 1, 2017 20:42
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Enemies never use the costumes. My guess is that they probably considered having different sprites for the different styles, but ultimately decided to just make costumes instead (since that's exactly as much work for them, and more customization for the player). And since the sprites are animated, it's a bit more work than it was back in the romhack days. Incidentally, this game was made by the same people who did one of the gba romhacks. Just for the record.
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May 1, 2017 20:53
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Clarste posted:Enemies never use the costumes. My guess is that they probably considered having different sprites for the different styles, but ultimately decided to just make costumes instead (since that's exactly as much work for them, and more customization for the player). And since the sprites are animated, it's a bit more work than it was back in the romhack days. Yeah Hemogoblin1AC or something? He did the FireRed hack, I think. rannum posted:I get wanting to make the game their own and "styles" are probably more interesting gameplay wise especially since every puppet gets one, but it is a shame they didn't do what the old gba romhacks did and make them "evolutions" with different sprites and such. Do any of the enemies in this game use the costume function? Evolutions may have been neat, but I guess for how the game's 'setting' works, the Puppets don't really evolve. Touhoumon was just taking Pokemon and changing the Pokemon into Touhous, so the evolutions were kind of needed. I don't think having like, Chibi Puppets, normal Puppets, and some having Extra Puppets would make as much sense. TPDP seems to try its best to ensure all Puppets are equal-ish and viable. Making evolutions would kind of unbalance it a bit, I think, as not all Puppets would have an Extra form.
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May 1, 2017 20:57
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krisslanza posted:I don't think having like, Chibi Puppets, normal Puppets, and some having Extra Puppets would make as much sense. TPDP seems to try its best to ensure all Puppets are equal-ish and viable. Making evolutions would kind of unbalance it a bit, I think, as not all Puppets would have an Extra form. To be fair, "Normal" Style is super weak and one of the main reasons all trainers are chumps for a while after you hit 30. So that's no different from evolving.
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May 1, 2017 21:05
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Clarste posted:Personally, I've played this game a lot, like a dozen times or so, and I get most of my enjoyment from making weird gimmick teams. Like all fairies, or all redheads. Once I made a team using a random number generator. I... probably wouldn't have bothered if I wasn't already a fan of Touhou, but I've also abandoned more terrible Touhou fangames than I can count so it must be doing something right.
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May 2, 2017 03:14
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Clarste posted:To be fair, "Normal" Style is super weak and one of the main reasons all trainers are chumps for a while after you hit 30. So that's no different from evolving. True. At least every Puppet has them, even if they don't all have the same Style options naturally. FractalSandwich posted:Please tell the nice people at home about Devil of Decline. Dare I ask?
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May 2, 2017 07:08
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krisslanza posted:Dare I ask? It's a bad game. To put it into more words, the Strawberry Bose games (Genius of Sappheros, Devil of Decline, and Nightmare of Rebellion) are what happens when you make a Touhou fan game based off of the SaGa gamestyle. It does not end well, though Sappheros is the one more infamous to me since it made Satori into a Blue Mage styled character but required absurd grinding and a walkthrough in order to get her spells that weren't terrible.
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May 2, 2017 21:53
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I actually thought Sappheiros was pretty good (never used Satori though), but Devil of Decline was just bad. Also I think calling the games "SaGa-based" is a bit weird since they only share a very few mechanics and generally feel nothing at all like a SaGa game.
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May 2, 2017 21:59
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Clarste posted:I actually thought Sappheiros was pretty good (never used Satori though), but Devil of Decline was just bad. Also I think calling the games "SaGa-based" is a bit weird since they only share a very few mechanics and generally feel nothing at all like a SaGa game. Regarding Satori, imagine a blue mage who might learn spells when they hit her. As in when the spell hits you have a RNG chance of learning it, only rolled the first time the spell hits per battle. Some of the spells have a 1% learning rate. She also has like a million learnable spells, but only a handful of them are any good. She's basically a completionist's worst nightmare. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 22:25 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 22:14
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Sappheiros had levels though. The only SaGa things it had were Life Points and I'm told that formations are a SaGa thing?
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May 2, 2017 22:18
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Clarste posted:Sappheiros had levels though. The only SaGa things it had were Life Points and I'm told that formations are a SaGa thing?  I could have swore there was a levelless Touhou JRPG fangame. That's my bad for getting it confused.Party Formations that affect character stats are absolutely something that was in the Romancing SaGa games, but calling it a "SaGa thing" is kind of like saying "oh those textboxes look like the ones in the Romancing SaGa series so this is a SaGa game". Sorry for the derail; I do remember all three Strawberry Bose games getting various levels of hate (most of Sappheiros's was due to Satori, which is why I remember it/her so vividly) but I fell out of the fangame stuff not long after Devil of Decline came out. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 22:28 on May 2, 2017 |
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May 2, 2017 22:25
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I think there was another RPG starring Tenshi that was much more influenced by SaGa. I wanna say it was called Tendou Blade...? Anyway, it was boring and bad and kind of unmemorable.
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May 2, 2017 22:37
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I liked GOS myself, but only the updated version which made it easier, and boosted Satori's learning rate from 1% to 20% I think (+ her talents which when maxed out was around 60%). Made it much easier because Satori was genuinely a very strong character in that game, unfortunately for the old version. Disappointing to hear about Devil of Decline though, I've been waiting for a full translation patch which never appeared.
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May 3, 2017 02:46
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 So before we head off to the Misty Lake, here's the party I'm running at the moment. Kotohime and Seija's Style Change didn't actually change anything on them - besides boosting their stats - but I was actually incorrect on what I said about Mokou's Style Change.   As mentioned, she did become Fire/Fighting, but I was incorrect on saying her Ability didn't change, as it did! At the start, Normal Mokou Puppet starts with "Emergency Cure", which cures any status aliment on switch out. Changing to Power, changed this to Reckless. Not really an Ability I like much myself, to be honest. The other Ability that Mokou can use is called "Hate Incarnate", which damages the enemy Puppet if Mokou is KO'd by them, using an attack of 90 BP or higher. Which, really, doesn't sound that great to me either, but I guess it has some kind of meta or PvP element to it I guess, since I'd imagine people would want to be using the strongest attacks constantly, so... anyway, we have to go to the Scarlet Devil Mansion, but before that, we need to go through the Misty Lake.  The Misty Lake is back towards the Forest of Magic, but instead of going west on the route, we take the first fork north... had we gone this way back then, these little trees would've completely stopped us, and there's no way we could possibly just climb over that stump! But thanks to the Woodcutter Doll, we can just chop these trees down and continue on our way.  Oh look, blue grass! That means there's some new Puppets to capture on this Route still!     Orange is a PC-98 character, from Lotus Land Story. Aaaand, that's about it. She was a boss, you beat her up and that's all we know. She does have some resemblance to Hong Meiling, so I guess she might be seen as the inspiration/prototype design for her.     And here's the Rinnosuke Puppet, whom we already covered when we met the actual Rinnosuke back at the Kourindou. These are the only new Puppets on this particular route, so now we can go to the Misty Lake, and then the SDM! Which I'm sure will be full of even more Puppets to capture.   Misty Lake The Misty Lake is covered in a perpetual fog in the game. In the actual lore of Gensokyo, this fog - or rather a strange mist, hence the name - only happens at around noon for an unknown reason. The Misty Lake is fed by a river that leads to the Youkai Mountain, and the Scarlet Devil Mansion is located on a ridge near the lake itself. Fairies and youkai like to gather here, particularly in the summertime, and its also a prime location to go fishing, with fish ranging in 2 to 5 fathoms, with a possible exaggrated tale of some fish as large as 10 fathoms live here. There was an offhand comment about a "Master of the Lake", but they supposedly live in a house at the bottom of the lake, so only "fish and mermaids" could actually go and see them. According to Akyuu, the Misty Lake is about 3.1 miles in circumference, and one could walk around the whole thing in about an hour. This area also features a special background! And new Puppets! Naturally there is also a number of Puppet Users around, mostly of the generic variety, but there is one special one... but before that, time for Puppets.     THE STRONGEST lives here, naturally. As of the time of this update, Cirno is actually one of the playable characters in the newest Touhou game - Hidden Star in Four Seasons - where she actually seems to be representing summer, and has gotten a pretty good tan, that has caused a pretty big surge in her popularity. As I'm looking for the last new Puppet here, I do find that one special Puppet User I was talking about.  Wakasagihime lives at the Misty Lake, as one might expect! So let's do the only sensible thing, and beat her up.    Oddly, despite the Misty Lake being unavailable until you clear Eientei, all the Wild Puppets and Puppet Users at the Misty Lake, are a lot lower leveled then the mandatory fights we just had to do to reach here. This, regrettably means, Wakasagihime is kind of a pushover, as she's significantly below the level of most of my group.  Her group consists of characters that showed up in the same game as she did, as you might expect. Kagerou and Wakasagihime, in particular, are generally shown as being on pretty good terms in fandom, and sometimes portrayed as lovers. Sekibanki in one particular artist's fandom, is the odd 'third wheel', who is usually in the comics for comic relief as a 'straight man' type being unphased by the lovey-dovey nature of Kagerou and Wakasagihime.  As is common for the named Trainers, her strongest Puppet is herself. Yorihime is a poor match up to both Kagerou and Sekibanki (although she one-shot Kagerou due to Steel), but Captain can mop up Sekibanki and Wakasagi pretty well. All in all, not a hard fight. It's still odd why the Puppet Users here are so low level, when Eientei ends with some level 30ish fights, and everything here is in the low 20's.     There we go! The last new Puppet here is of Meiling... the gatekeeper of the Scarlet Devil Mansion that we so happen need to be going to. In fact...   Meiling and Marisa doing what they do best!  Meiling is often shown sleeping on the job, and Marisa is always easily able to overpower her if she's awake anyway. Despite this, its suggested Hong Meiling is still a pretty powerful gatekeeper who can keep most intruders out, but it is a bit hard to keep a main character out. While we don't know her exact background her name, her practicing of Tai Chi, references to Chinese things, and having the power of Qi, its generally assumed Hong Meiling is from China. She's a very well-rounded youkai with no particular outstanding powers or abilities, she's also a pretty laid-back and friendly individual so long as you don't try to trespass. She is also known to have a pretty great love of manga, and even her mistress Remilia seems to share some of her tastes, as they read some of the same things. Maybe the most infamous thing about her, is in Hisoutensoku, her scenario culminates in a climatic showdown with a giant catfish, serving as the avatar of her sworn enemy Taisui Xingjun. But given her whole scenario is just her sleeping, and dreaming, on the job after reading manga, its hard to say how much of this is actually her own thoughts, and maybe not the fact she was just reading a manga about fighting a giant catfish. Anyway lets go ahead and trespass, if Marisa can do it, so can we right?   Scarlet Devil Mansion Well that was ea- oh.  Remilia: I am the mistress of this manor. And I can see the flow of fate. ...You have quite the fascinating destiny. Remilia: Ah, so you have business in the library. And I thought for sure that you had come to see me... Remilia: How about it? Once you're done with your business with Patchy, come pay me a visit. Remilia: I'm sure I could guide you on the next step of your fate? Remilia: That's assuming you can reach my room, of course. Well then, take your time... How hard could it be to reach her room? As she stated, Remilia Scarlet is the mistress of the Scarlet Devil Mansion. Remilia is one of the few characters that we have a pretty exact idea of her age, as her birth year is known as being 1503, making her 514 years old as of the time of this writing. Remilia, and the SDM by extension, are not native to Gensokyo, the entire mansion and its staff appearing during the events of Embodiment of Scarlet Devil, where in Remilia unleashed a red mist to block out the sun, allowing her to traverse freely if she desired - as Remilia is a vampire, and doesn't do well out in the sunlight. During the events of EoSD, Remilia claims to be related to Dracula himself, although there isn't anything to prove it. Her title of being known as the "Scarlet Devil" stems from her white dress and her messy eating habits, as its said after feeding on someone, she often is covered in their blood, earning her that nickname. Remilia's power is one of the more powerful sounding, yet not really well defined abilities, listed as the "manipulation of fate". By the wording, this ability suggests Remilia could manipulate the fate of anyone she interacts with, including those she fights; however as she has been defeated before, it seems unlikely her power is quite capable of this, although on the other hand, Remilia's childish personality leaves her prone to picking the more "interesting" options, even if they are not a good result for her. Its generally more assumed that Remilia is able to passively manipulate the fate of individuals around her, overtime, allowing her to change their fate. But in the end, we're not really sure the extent or usage of Remilia's powers... not that she really needs it, to be entirely honest. While she is technically a youkai, vampires are classified as one of the most powerful type of youkai in the setting, said to have both the power of oni and the speed of tengu. As a vampire she is said to also be capable of controlling a horde of devils, and could regenerate from even her entire body being destroyed, so long as her head remains intact. Many youkai and humans respect and fear Remilia as a result of this. Still, while she acts refined and elegant, she is still much a child, prone to doing whatever she wants to stave off boredom, but she's still a genuinely kind person. As one last random aside, EoSD is the 6th game in the series, Remilia is the Stage 6 boss, and her stage includes a total of 6 spell cards. Let's go see Patchy!  Let's also loot the place while we're here. The SDM is actually a fairly large structure - bigger on the inside then it is on the outside in fact. Most of the staff are fairy maids. Skill Card 66 contains the move "Confine", a non-damaging Void move that inflicts Paralysis. In this same room is another goodie that is new...  Guess it makes sense Remilia would have something like this laying around, given her whole fate motif. This Oath Thread I guess is our Ultra Ball equivalent, but again, I'm still not really sure why you'd need anything but a Seal Thread, as the success rate on them still seems very high.  Judging by the books and the fact Marisa is here, I'd say we found the library. While there is no name listed, the library within the SDM is called the Voile I believe. It's Patchouli Knowledge's personal library, and contains a pretty high volume of books that she has collected over her life. She spends almost all her time in this library, reading her collection. It takes pretty unusual circumstances for her to actually ever leave the library, or the SDM.  You're blocking the way though Marisa! You jerk.    I spy one of my favorite Touhou characters! Quick, let's go say hi and get an autograph!    O-oh or we can fight, I guess... Still, just like out in the Misty Lake, the levels of Koakuma's Puppets are really unusually low.  The Tokiko knows a move "Changeling", which is a pretty useful move in this game as its set to Shift. While it inflicts damage, it also allows you to then swap out the active Puppet with a new one, in this case, Koakuma switched Tokiko out for Daiyousei.  Yorihime can deal with Daiyousei and Tokiko easily though, and even Koakuma's namesake Puppet isn't much higher level.  Koakuma, whose name literally means "little devil", is the devil familiar of Patchouli. While she is a devil, Koakuma's "name" is actually the sort of devil she is - a little one, meaning she is actually quite weak, as devils are actually a very powerful type of youkai. It isn't clear for how long Koakuma has been in Patchouli's service, or if she's actually a singular character, or a generic type like the fairy maids. Fandom generally assumes Koakuma is a singular entity though, although a few have multiple. In canon, ZUN has stated Koakuma is an impish and mischievous individual, but as this information was revealed a while later, it conflicts with the earlier fan interpretation that Koakuma is Patchouli's dutiful, loyal servant. Much like Daiyousei, Koakuma is a fanon created name, that ZUN has adopted as the 'canon' name, but unlike Daiyousei, Koakuma hasn't really shown up or been used in anything since her appearance as a nameless midboss in EoSD. In spite of this, Koakuma is a pretty popular character and features pretty heavily alongside members of the SDM. Some fans and fanworks, have used the fact that she's a devil to imply she's actually a succubus. She's also one of my favorite characters in the series. Well let's go talk to Patchouli, she isn't too far away...  Patchouli: Puppets move through magic? And so it follows that I'm suspicious? Patchouli: Sorry, but that's different from my technique. Patchouli: And even if it was related, I have no obligation to tell you about it. Well. Darn. That didn't give us any answers at all huh? Guess we should just go -    O-or we could fight, I guess. The level scale in the SDM is pretty weird, I guess I can see why they adjusted the flow of events in the expansion, since everyone we fight here is weaker then the mandatory story fights we just had to go through. So before we pound her face in, lets talk a bit about Patchouli. Patchouli is known as the "Great Unmoving Library" due to her hermit habits of never leaving her vast Voile library. While she is a magician, like Alice, she was born one, instead of being born a human and becoming a magician like Alice. Patchouli is somewhere in the range of over 100 years old and is an immensely powerful magical user with control of the five elements (Fire, Water, Wood, Metal and Earth), in addition to the Sun and Moon elements; she is known as the "One-Week Girl" as she has a habit of liking to focus on the particular element that fits the day. However, despite all this, Patchouli suffers from asthma, anemia and an overall poor constitution, greatly restricting her ability to actually effectively use her magic. Remilia and her are considered to be very good friends, as Remilia often calls her "Pache" or "Patchy". How the two met and became friends isn't known however.  Not much to say about this fight, so I just busted out Mokou.  Patchouli: ...Me being unrelated to the Puppets is true. If you don't believe me, ask that thief over there. Patchouli: Now. Remi called for you, right? Patchouli: How do I know that? Patchouli: I knew because a little while ago, the newspaper said you'd be coming here. You looked so nervous. You're so easy to read. This newspaper always seems to be one step ahead of us huh? Yet we've never seen anyone following us around, hmm...  Patchouli: Even if you ask whether it matters to me what happens, it's not like I can stop it. Patchouli: But that's true. Getting this far must have been a hassle, so I can at least restore your Puppets. If you have need of it, please let me know. Well why would we need healing to go find Remi?  Oh look, an Akyuu Doll! The SDM is already way better then Eientei for offering me this. Anyway, let's go talk to that 'thief' to confirm Patchouli's story.  She then leaves, so she isn't blocking our way anymore. Going to the left would just take us back where we came from, so we want to go right to try and find Remilia... which will be next time. Because the SDM has a new host of Puppets to capture! It at least has an easy to access Akyuu Doll, so I can look at them easily.
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May 8, 2017 21:39
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My assumption as to the puppeteers after EIentei being weaker was that Kaguya and Mokou were basically Gym Leaders, As boss characters, they are stronger than the mooks in the area right after them. Although, the size of the level difference is odd.
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May 8, 2017 23:01
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Something to note is that if you talk to Meiling once, you find out that she's fast asleep. If you talk to her again though she mumbles something about knives*, wakes up, notices you're there, then starts a fight with you. She's about as hard as Koakuma is though and once you beat her she lets you enter the SDM then says something about how Remilia is going to scold her again. *Sakuya and Meiling seem to generally be depicted as friends, although Sakuya is less than pleased whenever she catches Meiling sleeping on the job. Sakuya tends to show this displeasure by way of multiple knives to the face.
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May 8, 2017 23:02
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Vauron posted:My assumption as to the puppeteers after EIentei being weaker was that Kaguya and Mokou were basically Gym Leaders, As boss characters, they are stronger than the mooks in the area right after them. Although, the size of the level difference is odd. Seems reasonable for the normal Users, but its weird that the mandatory fights - Koakuma and Patchouli - aren't any tougher. Given they're mandatory, you'd figure they should at least keep the scaling levels going upwards, since you had to go through Mokou and Marisa to get here, and they're both tougher. The level scaling in the game does seem a bit odd. Falconer posted:Something to note is that if you talk to Meiling once, you find out that she's fast asleep. If you talk to her again though she mumbles something about knives*, wakes up, notices you're there, then starts a fight with you. She's about as hard as Koakuma is though and once you beat her she lets you enter the SDM then says something about how Remilia is going to scold her again. Oh right I did forget to talk to her, I just waltzed past and kind of expected her to wake up Sakuya and Meiling have an interesting relationship in both canon and many fanon works. I'll probably babble about it when we inevitably run into and capture a Sakuya Puppet. Maybe. I have been trying to avoid bringing up too many of my own personal viewpoints into the complex world of Touhou shipping...
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May 8, 2017 23:21
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I've never played any Touhou games so my knowledge of the series is limited, but I do know Patchouli is my favorite character. She's cute, hates going outside as much as I do, and is a powerful mage, which is like a dream combination.
serefin99 fucked around with this message at 01:04 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 8, 2017 23:24
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Falconer posted:*Sakuya and Meiling seem to generally be depicted as friends, although Sakuya is less than pleased whenever she catches Meiling sleeping on the job. Sakuya tends to show this displeasure by way of multiple knives to the face. The knife thing is just some fan meme made almost entirely out of whole cloth.
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May 9, 2017 00:56
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a cartoon duck posted:The knife thing is just some fan meme made almost entirely out of whole cloth. Yeah, in canon the scolding is never elaborated on, but since Sakuya is basically Maidio Brando, skillset-wise, the knives are the obvious assumption everyone goes with. At the same time, fan memes are a good 75% of Touhou by this point, up to and including occasional fan ideas being canonicized (see As an aside, Cirno's representation in TH16 is explicitly named "Tanned Cirno", so there's speculation that it could possibly not be the Strongest we know and meme about.
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May 9, 2017 01:32
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serefin99 posted:I've never played any Touhou games so my knowledge of the series is limited, but I do know Patchouli is my favorite character. She's cute, hates going outside as much as I do, and is a powerful mage, which is like a dream combination. Patchouli is a popular character. The Touhou Wikia is out of date, but some time back she was technically the 3rd most shown character, being in like 9 of the 13 games in some form. KataraniSword posted:Yeah, in canon the scolding is never elaborated on, but since Sakuya is basically Maidio Brando, skillset-wise, the knives are the obvious assumption everyone goes with. True the playable demo did just come out yesterday-ish, I think. On the other hand, Cirno giving herself an entirely new name because she got tanned, sounds like something she would do.
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May 9, 2017 01:56
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Unless they adjusted things since I played, you haven't even begun to see the screwed up difficulty curve this game has. Also to add on to that Patchouli trivia, in one of the official manga it was revealed that the source of her health issues is that Magicians including both her and Alice do experiments with toxic substances like mercury and such quite often, and even being a youkai doesn't stop the build up from ruining their health.
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May 9, 2017 04:32
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So, just noticed this thread today, and the game looks interesting enough. Opened a Notepad document so I could jot down a few stream of consciousness thoughts. Chen's speed being rated at D- makes me sad, but this is also me coming off of playing Labyrinth of Touhou, where Chen's speed is actually kind of nutty. While it's true that Cirno first appeared as a boss in EoSD (and subsequently a midboss in Perfect Cherry Blossom), her real fame came from Phantasmagoria of Flower View, which is the meme you referenced there. Extra Youmu trivia I read: apparently someone calculated the speed of her slashing as a quarter of the speed of light. Granted, I am a bit sad that Patchy here doesn't get Puppets of Marisa (reference: SA), Koakuma (obvious), Meiling (as considering the gate guard a cat to exterminate the rats invading her library), and/or Sakuya (see Meiling). ...You know, I had to actually go back and check previous images to make sure Marisa still had that bag - otherwise I was going to think she was stealing more books again in addition to saying she was trying to help you.
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May 9, 2017 19:36
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Magic Fanatic posted:Chen's speed being rated at D- makes me sad, but this is also me coming off of playing Labyrinth of Touhou, where Chen's speed is actually kind of nutty. Puppet ratings are randomized from what I can tell, so you can capture a Chen puppet that has D- rated speed just as easily as one that has A- rated speed. The starter puppet is the only exception I've seen in that it has an A+ rating for every stat.
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May 9, 2017 19:59
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The puppet ratings are their IVs.
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May 9, 2017 19:59
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 17:15 |
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It's relative to their species, so the D- just means that this is a particularly slow Chen, not that Chen is slow. She's pretty fast, iirc. There are 16 ranks, from E- to S, and each increase in rank basically increases their base stat by 1. Or something along those lines. The starter has A+ in everything, which is not quit the best it could be but pretty close. Clarste fucked around with this message at 21:31 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 21:28
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