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VRM "tier lists" are dumb in many ways, but the B450 I Aorus Pro Wifi is still listed as a "mid range" option for Ryzen 2000 on the old X470/B450 list and the newer CPUs actually have a lower power consumption so  Lungboy posted:Am I correct in thinking the gigabyte b450i has terrible vrms and vrm cooling? Would a 3600 be too much for them? Otherwise the board seems good with the same audio as the Asus and Asrock boards and it's as cheap as the ASRock. The only real downsides, IMO, are 1) Gigabyte's RGB software is atrocious if you care about that and 2) unlike the MSI MAX mainboards there's no guarantee you get a board that supports Ryzen 3000 out of the box, so you'd have to use a loaner CPU or bring it to a place where they update the BIOS for you - the first BIOS release supporting the latest Ryzens was released in May but it's theoretically possible the board was sitting in a warehouse longer than that. Otherwise I think it's a great board for budget ITX Ryzen builds, with Intel WiFi and LAN and ALC1220 sound.
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Dec 30, 2019 18:20
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I still don't understand why there's only one board doing that (some X570 E-ATX monstrosity from Gigabyte) instead of the tiny poo poo fans that don't really do much. They're already making $500 boards, just take one of the 10 boards and make it $510 so you can put $5 worth of heatpipes on there...
orcane fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Dec 31, 2019 |
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Dec 31, 2019 01:54
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Should that be A520? Because A320 already exists 
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Jan 17, 2020 12:37
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B550A was just a B450 rebrand for OEMs. Asmedia's B550 is rumoured to have PCIe 3.0.
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Feb 26, 2020 12:56
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Crunchy Black posted:The FUD regarding actively cooled chipsets will never not make me lol
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Mar 6, 2020 21:03
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If it "never gets warm enough so the fan never turns on", why is the tiny poo poo fan even there? Small fans are so completely useless at moving any air when they're not running with insanely high RPM, I just don't know WTF AMD was thinking. And mainboard manufacturers - if you already have a product stack of eg. 10 mainboards from $150 to $600, you can't tell me there was no way to put $10 blocks of metal and heatpipes on a few of the more expensive ones.
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Mar 7, 2020 17:19
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As for fans... I guess some people have amazingly bad hearing or live next to a construction site or their GPU fans are so loud they don't care about the wannabe delta fans on their mainboards. In an article on AMD giving up blowers for future reference video cards, today I was reading people saying their Navi reference blowers were almost silent 
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Mar 7, 2020 19:16
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You should probably considerung not undervolting Ryzen 3000: https://old.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ceakbs/if_you_want_to_save_powerreduce_thermals_reduce/ 
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Mar 7, 2020 21:01
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60°C for heat transfer through plastic is pretty good? 
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Mar 7, 2020 21:29
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If they're off or spinning slowly enough so you can't hear them they're not actually moving air and any $1 passive cooler could have the same or better effect. It's a simple fact that a 40mm fan needs to spin very fast to do anything, which is why the boards that shipped with more "proactive" fan curves are actually not quiet at all. Also, they're another part that can fail. The complaints about the fans are not just about their noise.
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Mar 11, 2020 19:46
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Klyith posted:Until you imagine scenario where someone has SLI video cards with big bulky shrouds that block ambient circulation from getting to the heatsink, installed in a bad case that puts RGB intake fans directly behind an unventilated glass panel.
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Mar 11, 2020 20:57
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Nomyth posted:Was the arrangement to use the old GloFo process for the chipset just temporary? I have to believe the x670 or whatever won't consume as much power
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Mar 11, 2020 21:37
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Yeah at same $ it would be a "why not" deal (you can set both CPUs to run identically to each other so the only advantage the 3800X would have is very slightly better binning) but whatever the 3800X is more expensive is better spent on a coffee or on a different part of the computer.
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Mar 14, 2020 14:34
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GruntyThrst posted:Got all my hardware up and running so doing the detail work now. Should I be using the AMD Ryzen windows power plan thing I keep reading about? It's from 2017 AFAICT so maybe it's unnecessary now?
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Mar 14, 2020 20:33
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I built a computer with a friend last November and the Asus Strix B450 had a "Ryzen 2000-ready" sticker, but it came with a BIOS from August (IIRC) that already had post-launch optimizations for Ryzen 3000. It's kinda funny MSI had to release MAX boards because they hosed up, but now they're the default recommendation for Ryzen 3000 builds because they're guaranteed to have a BIOS that supports them over all the other B450/X470 options (which have a minimal remaining chance of not being updated). Granted, nothing would have stopped other manufacturers from re-releasing their boards with new BIOS updates (they did this up to three times for Intel's HEDT stuff lately ) but maybe they would rather sell some more X570 instead.
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Mar 16, 2020 13:54
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But not all MSI boards have BIOS flashback Also I assure you the people buying boards for Ryzen 3000 who also care about having the ability to run Bulldozer (or in a hypothetical future: Summit Ridge CPUs) are a tiny niche of the already niche of DIY PC enthusiasts. The boards' main advantage is being guaranteed to run the new CPUs without a fuss, while being fairly well equipped (I'm thinking people wouldn't recommend Biostar boards even if they had a line of "guaranteed to work with Ryzen 3000" boards ).
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Mar 16, 2020 21:21
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Yeah, I have a Gigabyte board that fits Ryzen 2000 and 3000 support (not sure about 1000, didn't check) into a 16 MB chip with no options downgrade so it's really MSI's bloated BIOS that made the MAX sort of mandatory (or at least convenient) to them.
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Mar 16, 2020 23:40
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I've only ever seen people claim E-die actually likes voltage, TBH. Some timings (tRCD especially) hit walls pretty quickly and can't be overcome with more voltage, but others like tCL or tRP scale pretty well, as long as you don't go over 1.5V (the limit of DDR4 chips in general).
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Mar 17, 2020 15:53
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You'll definitely need a new CPU first if you want to run higher RAM clocks, a new mainboard alone will almost certainly not improve the speed with a Ryzen 1700. Getting over 2933 MT/s on first generation Ryzen was usually a major success already and you're not making it better with 4 DIMMs
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Mar 27, 2020 01:13
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Now I want someone to do throttling tests with babyhead coolers. Turn off the fan(s) so it's just the heatsink. Or the heatsink + case airflow. How long until it throttles how much?
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Apr 2, 2020 17:04
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ItBreathes posted:They make passive coolers, you could look up benchmarks for one of those. Iirc they're pretty limited in what they can cool. 
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Apr 2, 2020 18:16
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DDR5 is going to be rad eventually, but platforms for it will have to mature first and if DDR5-8400 is the goal that will take like 3-5 years to show up after DDR5 launches in the first place.
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Apr 5, 2020 09:34
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But do they have chipset fans?
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Apr 17, 2020 19:52
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They're probably so an OEM can put 3rd-gen Ryzen into their computers, $120 is still lower than $170 (and they can probably cut down on cooling too to save 50 cents).
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Apr 22, 2020 09:57
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Cygni posted:To me, the $60 price delta to the 3600 is just too small to recommend it, even if the 1600AF and cheap 2600s arent available in your region like they are in the US. If you are truly in an ultra cash strapped situation and need a computer, like going to college, I would probably still recommend the $80 3200G with a plan to add a graphics card and then swap the CPU off the used market in a year or two instead.
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Apr 22, 2020 20:52
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teagone posted:Oh, no I did actually mean 2133 lol. That's what the BIOS defaults to whenever I set a timing that causes a failed post. I've just never tried setting the RAM speed to anything slower than 2933 MHz. The PC runs a-ok with 4 sticks at 2133; works no problem. I'll try booting with all 4 sticks at 2666 sometime this weekend to rule out any other wonkiness. Another thing I forgot to mention is I also tried bringing up the DRAM voltage when trying for 2933+ speeds on all 4 sticks, but that also didn't make a difference. 2133 is just the default "fallback" JEDEC speed, if your RAM wouldn't even run that something would be seriously wrong The APUs should have the Zen+ memory controller already which is why you can run DDR4-3200 with random memory in the first place. Zen 1 could barely hit more than 2933 without special RAM (eg. B-die stuff). However, I could see the two different sets not running at "rated" speeds together since you're still approaching the limit of what the Zen+ IMC can do (with 4 DIMMs specifically), and with different memory chips that may like different timings/voltage just enough so it breaks near maximum speed (especially with Auto-OC options).
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Apr 25, 2020 09:56
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Does F@H use AVX? Are you running an old AVX-less version of Prime (or turned it off in a config file)?
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Apr 26, 2020 01:51
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In that case you can run Furmark/Kombustor together with Prime95
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Apr 26, 2020 11:25
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I'd sell my Z97/i7 4790k but I don't really want to redo my entire computer right now 
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May 6, 2020 20:15
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B550 is confirmed to offer PCIe 4.0. The announcement citing a June 16 release date only came out two weeks ago so I don't expect there to be a significant delay. At least we should get some announcements or "leaks" closer to the B550 launch date, maybe they'll make some cool new boards (although B450 will remain a valid choice for budget and general purpose builds IMO, Joe User usually doesn't need PCIe 4.0 or more than 2 storage devices).
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May 6, 2020 21:45
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Guess we know what the 3100/3300X are for - they're the only cheap CPUs officially supported on the B550 boards. That would suck...
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May 7, 2020 15:03
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I still run plenty of games off a 7200 rpm HDD and initially loading a bit slower is usually fine (the games where it's not fine just go onto the SSD).
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May 7, 2020 15:17
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gradenko_2000 posted:
But maybe don't go around touting x years of socket compatibility if that's just hypothetical because you're effectively limiting the compatibility to a handful of CPU generations. Not supporting a CPU because you want to keep the BIOS sizes down for a CPU release in a year or two is just 
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May 7, 2020 15:59
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Cygni posted:Hardware Unboxed saying that like the PCIe 4.0 on x470/B450 debacle, AMD won’t allow board partners to support Zen3 on earlier boards even if they want to. Still rumor. On the other hand, if it's "necessary" because power delivery or some internal layout change of the CPU requires it, they're in the exact same boat as Intel. It would make the promise of "socket compatibility" completely meaningless and no one would take them seriously if they tried to use it again as a bullet point for AM5.
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May 7, 2020 17:03
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I think before we make up numbers for Intel's hypothetical lead with Rocket Lake we should let them actually launch and sell Comet Lake first.
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May 7, 2020 20:18
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The official excuse is "abloo bloo BIOS ROM not large enough for future CPUs" though, not anything you describe.
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May 7, 2020 21:56
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Some people say they're doing this for the board partners who cheaped out on BIOS ROMs (again) and would have to throw out older CPUs. But I question the wisdom of making yourself look bad (again) in case some board partners hosed up. Technical reasons would be the easier, more credible excuse so I'm assuming they would have used it if it was true (like Intel's move to LGA 1151v2). And I understand the incentive to increase their margins and get people to buy new mainboards, but in this case that's almost entirely on mainboard manufacturers (for AMD's bottom line it would probably be better if people with 300/400 series chipsets could buy a new Ryzen 4000 as a drop-in upgrade) and "make people buy new stuff" also comes with the risk they won't be buying the new AMD CPU at all. So if the manufacturers wanted to compete with their own new boards by adding Ryzen 4000 support to older boards, it doesn't make sense for AMD to step in and tell them they're not allowed to do that. We'll see. It definitely means people who want to keep at least a limited guaranteed upgrade path right now should wait for B550 mainboards, and consider B450 a budget option only if you know you'll never want more than a 3950X (support for anything newer would just be a nice bonus).
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May 7, 2020 22:35
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Klyith posted:the MSI Max mobos don't have bigger bios eproms than other motherboards. MSI just has the combo of an elaborate bios GUI with many images, plus being cheap and using 16MB chips on their non-Max boards.
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May 7, 2020 23:07
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Yeah until recently the claim was "AM4 support until 2020" with emphasis on missing out on new chipset/mainboard features (but lack of basic compatibility was never really noted). Even if it was for a technical reason, they had plenty of time to notice and point out that the common assumption (that current mainboards would be able to use the next CPU, at the cost of advanced mainboard features), did not apply beyond Ryzen 3000. Now they have "socket compatibility" as a marketing feature but some of their boards have exactly two CPU generations worth of support, same as Intel.
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May 8, 2020 00:03
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HalloKitty posted:They're going to need to go back on this, nobody is going to swap out a board they just bought for a newer one with a loving fan on the chipset only for it to be the end of the line for am4, all because of a sodding flash rom size. Utterly wasteful. The cost of a 16MB vs 32MB chip must be miniscule, yet here we are. If only they were socketed, or AMD had insisited on a decent size from day 1. Bonus:  E: Also plenty of X570 mainboards have 16 MB ROMs so AMD isn't even lying very well
orcane fucked around with this message at 10:43 on May 8, 2020 |
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May 8, 2020 10:36
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