|
 Uchouten Kazoku, officially translated as the Eccentric Family, is a series of books written by Tomihiko Morimi of Tatami Galaxy fame. The first book, originally published in 2007, was adapted into an anime series by P.A.Works in 2013 and now they're back for a second season based on The Heir's Homecoming, the second book in the series. WHAT IS IT ABOUT The Eccentric Family tells the story of the Shimogamos, a family of shape-shifting tanuki (raccoon dogs) living in modern-day Kyoto. Their father, Shimogamo Souichirou, was once the leader of all the tanuki of Kyoto, until one year he was caught by a shady secret society known as the Friday Fellows and became the main dish at their traditional New Year's party. Now his four sons struggle to live up to his name while trying to avoid getting turned into hot pot themselves. WHERE CAN I WATCH IT The first season is available on Blu-Ray and DVD. It used to be on Crunchyroll, but unfortunately their license expired last fall. Season 2 is simulcast on Crunchyroll in most parts of the world and AnimeDigitalNetwork in French-speaking areas. NOTE: This thread has open spoilers for the first season. If you haven't seen it, maybe go watch it first!
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 12:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 12:40 |
|
|
CAST The Shimogamo family: Shimogamo Yasaburou CV: Takahiro Sakurai  The third son of the Shimogamo family and the protagonist and narrator of the story. Inherited his father's blood of fools and is the most carefree of the brothers. Neurotic about keeping his butt warm. Shimogamo Yaichirou CV: Jun'ichi Suwabe  The oldest and most serious son of the Shimogamo family. Obsessed with keeping his father's legacy alive and following in his footsteps as the leader of the tanuki of Kyoto. Cracks easily under pressure. Shimogamo Yajirou CV: Hiroyuki Yoshino  The second-oldest brother of the Shimogamo family. After his father's death, he decided to go live as a frog in the well of the Rokudou Chinnouji temple and has since lost the ability to turn back. Transforms into a train when drunk. Shimogamo Yashirou CV: Mai Nakahara  The youngest of the four brothers. Easily scared, which is inconvenient for a tanuki as they transform back to their true forms when frightened. Has an unusual talent of being able to emit an electric current from his fingertips. Recently started studying electromagnetism. Shimogamo Tousen CV: Kikuko Inoue  The mother of the Shimogamo brothers. Huge fan of the Takarazuka Revue and likes to hang out with local university students in the guise of a handsome young man known only as the Prince in Black. Suffers from a severe fear of thunder, so much so that the brothers have a rule of always returning home during thunderstorms to make sure she's safe. Never catches colds. Shimogamo Souichirou CV: Bon Ishihara  The late father and patriarch of the Shimogamo family. He was widely respected as the Nise-emon (translated by Crunchyroll as Trick Magister), the leader of all tanuki in Kyoto, until a conspiracy between his brother Sou'un, the Friday Fellows member Benten and the Kurama Tengu led to his untimely demise as the Friday Fellows' year-end hot pot. The Ebisugawa family: Ebisugawa Sou'un CV: Nobuo Tobita  The Ebisugawa and Shimogamo families have been bitter rivals for generations. Their feud was supposed to come to an end when Souichirou's younger brother, Soujirou, was married off to Ebisugawas, but Soujirou had other plans. He changed his name to Sou'un and conspired to murder his brother and claim the seat of Nise-emon. After his plots came to light at the end of the first season, he hastily disappeared from Kyoto and is currently on a very long tour of Japan's hot springs. Ebisugawa Kureichirou CV: Yuuichi Nakamura  Sou'un's oldest son. After a disagreement with his father, he left Kyoto years ago to become a Buddhist monk, but has now returned in his father's absence. Kinkaku & Ginkaku (Ebisugawa Kurejirou & Kuresaburou) CV: Shuuya Nishiji & Kousuke Hatakeyama  The Idiot Brothers of the Ebisugawa family inherited all of their father's malice and none of his wits. They spend most of their time either convincing themselves of their excellence or plotting petty schemes against the Shimogamos. Ebisugawa Kaisei CV: Ayane Sakura  Sou'un's only daughter, formerly betrothed to Yasaburou. Has a foul mouth but unlike Kinkaku and Ginkaku bears no ill will towards the Shimogamo family. Has refused to let Yasaburou see her in years for unknown reasons. Other tanuki: Nanzenji Gyokuran CV: Youko Hikasa  Yaichirou's childhood friend and the younger sister of Shoujirou, the current head of the Nanzenji family. Masterful shogi player. Yasaka Heitarou CV: Shinji Ogawa  Souichirou's old friend who used to hunt tsuchinoko with him. Took over as Nise-emon after Souichirou's death, but doesn't really like the job and really just wants to retire and move to Hawaii. Runs a proctology clinic that Yasaburou has a long history with. Tengu: Professor Akadama (Nyoigatake Yakushibou) CV: Hideyuki Umezu  Once a mighty tengu who ruled over the mountain of Nyoigatake, he injured his back in a prank played on him by his students Yasaburou and Benten and has since lost most of his powers. His pride and libido are still in perfect condition, however. Benten (Suzuki Satomi) CV: Mamiko Noto  Benten is in many ways a contradiction. She is a human, yet Professor Akadama taught her in tengu magic. She is Yasaburou's first love, yet she killed his father. She demands the fear and respect of all Kyoto, yet never seems satisfied by it. Her past and motivations are shrouded in mystery, but she is unquestionably dangerous. Kurama Tengu  The tengu of Mt. Kurama have a long-standing rivalry with Professor Akadama and have taken over Nyoigatake since his accident. They also bear a grudge towards the Shimogamos ever since Souichirou helped the Professor chase them away years ago. They are often seen accompanying Benten as her personal bodyguards. The Nidaime (translation note: nidaime means heir) CV: Junji Majima  Professor Akadama's son and the successor to Nyoigatake. A hundred years ago, a rivalry in love between him and his father turned into a full-blown feud, which led into the Professor throwing his son off the roof of Minami-za. The humiliated heir fled Kyoto and has spent the last century in England, studying how to be a proper English gentleman. Now, he has returned. Humans: The Friday Fellows  An old secret society of influential Kyotoans, feared among the tanuki for their tradition of eating tanuki hot pot every new year. The Friday Fellows always have seven members, named after the Seven Lucky Gods: Juroujin, Benten, Ebisu, Daikoku, Bishamon, Fukurokuju and Hotei. Currently, the seat of Hotei is open after Professor Yodogawa got kicked out. Juroujin (Ri Haku) CV: Yasuhiro Mamiya  The mysterious leader of the Friday Fellows. A shady loan shark with a hobby of collecting antiques and oddities, especially of the supernatural kind, which he keeps in his personal triple-decker train car. First appeared in Yoru wa Mijikashi Aruke yo Otome, which is getting a movie adaptation this year. Professor Yodogawa CV: Takehiko Higuchi  A professor of the Department of Agriculture at Kyoto University. Yodogawa used to be Hotei of the Friday Fellows, but got kicked out after he had a change of heart about eating tanuki at their last New Year's party and failed to produce the main dish of the night. Tenmaya CV: Bin Shimada  ABSOLUTE FUCKER Doc V fucked around with this message at 18:56 on May 11, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 12:12
|
|
|
Also, I translated a short story that takes place between seasons 1 & 2 so check that out if you want: https://mega.nz/#!8XBC2RjT!Vie1uPKWcETmM0nOViAJkpqfYF8hPjmNxUQ_ihn4YwI
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 12:14
|
|
|
Awesome OP Doc V. I probably won't end up watching this until sometime after the season is over (I still haven't finished the first season), but it's definitely something I'm looking forward to.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 12:33
|
|
|
GREAT THREAD GREAT SHOW
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 15:31
|
|
|
Looking forward to another amazing season of
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 16:49
|
|
|
What would a literal translation of Nise-emon be? Is that the same NISE as in Nisemonogatari?
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 19:05
|
|
|
Rand Brittain posted:What would a literal translation of Nise-emon be? Is that the same NISE as in Nisemonogatari? Yeah, the nise the same as in Nisemonogatari and it pretty much just means 'fake' or 'imitation'. Emon is a bit harder to translate directly: it's originally a term used for government officials under the Ritsuryou system which was used in Japan between the 7th and 10th centuries. The literal meaning is 'gate guard' because the very first emon were the people guarded the gates of the Imperial Palace in Kyoto, but these days it generally seems to just be used as a really old-fashioned term for an important person, so in that sense 'magister' is a pretty accurate translation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 15, 2017 20:51
|
|
|
Oh gently caress yes, I hadn't heard a new season was coming, this is a great surprise! The first season was one of my favorites of 2013.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2017 11:11
|
|
|
    I stumbled across the first season and really enjoyed it, so I'm glad this got a second season also that fucker is a complete fucker. I hope the idiot twins don't decide to transform into him
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2017 19:43
|
|
|
Op owns episode owns I'm so glad this is back.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2017 19:47
|
|
|
Zetsubou-san posted:also that fucker is a complete fucker. Man, you haven't seen anything yet. Also, hey, there's the callback to the short story I translated! The book mentions that Yasaburou's oni disguise is specifically the same as the one he used at Setsubun.
|
|
#
?
Apr 16, 2017 22:08
|
|
|
Yasaburo is a good tanuki  https://files.catbox.moe/bncbgc.webm https://files.catbox.moe/ptoofc.webm This OP is pretty~ good Knorth fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Apr 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 00:04
|
|
|
The OP is really cool but aesthetically feels weirdly edgy. Also man I've really forgotten how fun all these characters are.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 03:14
|
|
|
Yashirou trying to cut through Yasaburo and Kaisei's bullshit was great.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2017 04:53
|
|
|
Man how'd I never hear about this show. This poo poo's pretty good. But there's something I don't get about the Freaky Friday Club. I don't get how this little social club of mostly incompetent looking fuckers can get away with eating someone once a year and nobody does anything about it. Like, the little raccoons treat it like some inevitable law of nature that one of them gets ate every year and leave it at that. Maybe it wouldn't be very tanuki-ish to just straight up murder a bloke, but you'd think they'd prank the gently caress out of them year round or something. Hell, the Friday Fuckers don't even seem that invested in the idea, they're just like doing it out of inertia. One of them wanted to eat something else instead. It doesn't seem like it'd be that hard to convince them otherwise if someone just put up the effort. Am I just missing something here?
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 04:12
|
|
|
I think between the tengu, tanuki, and humans, each one kind of accepts that the other has a certain predisposition and they mainly keep quarreling within their own social orders.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 04:25
|
|
|
Most of the Friday Fellows are ordinary dudes who don't realise they're eating sentient beings, but Benten and Jurojin (that's the one with the beard) are both scary as hell. Pretty sure Jurojin is the head temple priest mentioned in the latest episode and up to his neck in occult bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 04:45
|
|
|
Emzedoh posted:Most of the Friday Fellows are ordinary dudes who don't realise they're eating sentient beings, but Benten and Jurojin (that's the one with the beard) are both scary as hell. Pretty sure Jurojin is the head temple priest mentioned in the latest episode and up to his neck in occult bullshit. That's the other thing that wasn't too clear, whether or not humans acknowledge the tanuki and tengu. Most of the city almost seems like they don't notice, but the tanuki and tengu don't seem to really be hiding either. They fly around and turn into tigers in the middle of daylight. I eventually chose to believe that the humans were exercising some kind of extended japanese politeness, and all just choose to ignore them to keep from making waves. But the Fridays don't seem to have an excuse. Did none of them hear a tanuki talk any of the years they were trapping and eating them? Hell one of the mundane ones asked the MC if he was a tanuki like it was no big deal. They didn't seem too phased by seeing a room of people turn into rodents either. It kind of feels like there could be an explanation floating around somewhere, the show just never spent to time to explain it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 05:11
|
|
|
I figure it's just a feature of the setting that tengu and tanuki are kind of slack about maintaining the masquerade but human society as a whole never really figures it out. Magic stuff happens, but it's basically unexplainable for people out of context. As for why none of the tanuki ever spoke up before being put in the pot... I don't know, maybe one of the inner circle Friday club dudes shuts them up? I'm pretty sure most of the others are just indulging in the Japanese weird meat tradition and have no idea about any of the supernatural stuff. They flipped their poo poo when Yaichiro busted into their room in tiger form at the end of last season and I don't think they were being literal when they asked Yasoburo if he was a tanuki. After all, even if people aren't clued in on the supernatural stuff, tanuki are real animals and they should be aware of all the myths around them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 09:43
|
|
|
Pavlov posted:Like, the little raccoons treat it like some inevitable law of nature that one of them gets ate every year and leave it at that. I think that's exactly it. They see themselves as "little raccoons". For all that they seem to spend 90% of the time upright and humanoid, they consider themselves to have as little say in how the humans treat them as any dumb animal would. Same reason Yasaburou defaults to "obsequious functionary" whenever he's around a tengu: the tengu are above, the tanuki are below, and that's just the way the world works. Or, maybe it's an honour thing. Tanuki are tricksters: if a human manages to trap them in a cage, well, they lost in a fair fight.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 13:18
|
|
|
Pavlov posted:Man how'd I never hear about this show. This poo poo's pretty good. The Friday Fellows club and their traditional tanuki hotpot exist to enforce the hierarchy your alluding to here. But Tanuki also see themselves as helpless little raccoons because that is ultimately what they are, it doesn't matter that they can change into a huge tiger or a bear if they don't feel in charge of a situation they revert back to their mostly helpless form. They feel extremely vulnerable in that state and the story reinforces their helplessness in racoon form multiple ways (Tousen being frightened of storms reverts her back to a racoon, Kinkaku and Ginkaku being thrown into the river or cold bath reverting them back to raccoons, cages reverting tanuki to raccoons, raccoon form being linked to vulnerable states like illness/sleeping/choking on smoke/etc.). Asking them to put their life on the line to try and stop the Friday Fellows seems like a crazy proposition. Inertia, as well as questioning that inertia and sometimes overcoming it, is one of the main themes of the show. You see it in just about every character, Yaichirou trying to follow in his fathers footsteps, Yajirou being resigned to his life as a frog in a well, Yashirou constantly being bullied by Kinkaku & Ginkaku but never standing up for himself and continuing to work at the brandy factory. Yasaburou is the outlier (although you could argue that his idiot blood is the inertia carrying him forward) but still has plenty of inertial forces acting upon him or related to his character such as his care for Prof. Akadama and his arranged marriage to Kaisei. The Friday Fellows is the inertial concept that carries most of the story in the first season, its an old institution that has been around for ages and tanuki just learned to accept it kind of like a small town sacrificing a young girl to the gods concept that's present in many stories. Like that concept, you have people manufacturing reasonable explanations for why they do this crazy thing such as Professor Yodogawa who talks about how being eaten is actually a good way to die because it gives someone happiness instead of just having your body decompose into the earth. In the end though, emotions and love overcome traditions and logic but the series leaves you with some interesting questions. To answer your questions more directly, in this world tanuki are cowards by nature and Yasaburou is the exception to this which is why he's our main character and able to do all the incredible things he does. This also relates to why convincing the Friday Fellows members not to eat tanuki seems impossible task, as a tanuki you probably don't want to ever get near them because they could possibly capture/kill you. Many of the Friday Fellows also don't see tanuki hotpot as an issue since raccoons are just another animal like a cow or a pig to them and you would have to overcome that inertial barrier of hundreds of years of tanuki hotpot and being kicked out of the group if they refuse to eat it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 19:10
|
|
|
^Yeah, basically this. The main in-universe reason why the tanuki don't try to mess with the Friday Fellows (beyond the fact that messing with Benten and Juroujin is a really bad idea) is that tanuki are unable to stay transformed when they are afraid and 99% of them are absolutely terrified of the Friday Fellows, who have become more or less mythical boogeymen in the absence of any natural predators in Kyoto. That's also the explicitly stated canon reason why caged tanuki can't just transform and bust out: they're wild animals so being trapped makes them uneasy, which prevents them from using their powers. The Friday Fellows' reason for continuing to eat tanuki is pretty much just tradition: they were founded centuries ago, supposedly by some famous historical figure (I forget who exactly) and ever since then it's been a rule that all members in turn must provide a tanuki for the year-end hot pot and anyone who fails to do so gets kicked out. The members aren't actually aware that tanuki are sentient (aside from Benten and Juroujin who just don't give a drat) and even if one suddenly started talking to them, well, if you hang out with Juroujin long enough you're going to get used to seeing some weird poo poo (it also helps that the Friday Fellows' meetings usually involve heavy drinking). The "that's their place in the world" angle is perfectly valid too - the series borrows a lot from traditional Japanese folklore, where tanuki are often stereotyped as creatures that try to trick humans with their shapeshifting powers and then fall victim to their own stupidity.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 19:37
|
|
|
Those are all interesting reads, but the show would only have needed a few throw-away lines to make that clear. Something like the older brother talking about doing something rash after the dad gets ate, and someone quickly talking him down. Or the younger brother asking why nobody's ever tried stopping things, before the Inescapable Social Order gets explained to him. Or really anyone just lamenting how no tanuki could ever stand up to a human etc. The fact that there's no introspection about this is pretty noticable, given that it's such an obvious bit of world-building to do. The show does like to wait to explain events well after you've seen them happen sometimes. Like, it only explains why tanuki's can't transform in cages well after the whole family gets locked up and we see them sitting around in cages for a while. I spent half the episode wondering if the cages were enchanted, or if tanukies were like fairies and metal fucks with them. So I guess collective tanuki self-esteem issues could be the reason, but I'm half expecting them to just info-drop that Juroujin is an ancient and powerful wizard that sustains his magic by eating tanuki meat, or something else like that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 21:11
|
|
|
I always got this vague impression that the tanuki eating was just supposed to be accepted in some sort of zen way (based largely upon Souichiro's acceptance of it prior to his own murder), but I'm hoping that the show moves towards a more explicit "no this poo poo is hosed, Benten and anyone else who knows tanuki are sentient is a Bad Person" conclusion. The show's finale should be Yasaburou turning into a T-Rex and eating Benten.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 21:36
|
|
|
Ytlaya posted:The show's finale should be Yasaburou turning into a T-Rex and eating Benten.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 21:38
|
|
|
I think there are some cultural context clues that make it a bit more clear. In Shinto folklore, you have kitsune and tanuki who are magical beings. As far as I know, the actual kitsune animal is the same as the magical creature of folklore. In other words, the real animals--foxes and raccoon dogs--were seen as magical beings. They could shapeshift and even take on human forms. So you can see how a tanuki at once has the qualities of an animal, a human, and a spirit. This did not stop people from trapping them, hunting them, or cooking them in ancient times, so it makes sense that the Friday Fellows would do the same things in modern Japan, and that it takes a conscious effort for the professor to question the ethics of doing so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kachi-kachi_Yama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunbuku_Chagama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danzaburou-danuki
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 21:39
|
|
|
Pavlov posted:Those are all interesting reads, but the show would only have needed a few throw-away lines to make that clear. Something like the older brother talking about doing something rash after the dad gets ate, and someone quickly talking him down. Or the younger brother asking why nobody's ever tried stopping things, before the Inescapable Social Order gets explained to him. Or really anyone just lamenting how no tanuki could ever stand up to a human etc. The fact that there's no introspection about this is pretty noticable, given that it's such an obvious bit of world-building to do. I can't say I ever really questioned it or noticed it since that need for revenge never really fit my idea of the characters. I believe there is a line in the first season where Yasaburo talks about tanukis having a much more peaceful nature than Tengu/Humans, and the Shimogamo family clearly wanted to blame their idiocy of letting their dad wander off drunk and alone more than they wanted to blame Benten or the Friday Fellows. Theres some obvious differences but I guess its a little bit like Timothy Treadwell. Even though he was able to "get along" with a lot of grizzly bears he eventually got eaten by one. I don't think many people would think revenge on the bear is the correct answer to that situation or that humankind should rise up and oust the bears just because one person got eaten.
|
|
#
?
Apr 18, 2017 23:59
|
|
|
I spent yesterday marathoning the 1st season and just got caught up with the 2nd, and man this is a good anime. From the name and the gifs I'd seen I was expecting it to be a mostly comedy show with good focus on family, and it was that but more serious and thoughtful than I was expecting. I like stories with big ensemble casts and even though Yasaburou is pretty clearly the main character most of the cast played really important roles and had their own plot-lines that all converged in the finale. I really enjoyed it.BattleHamster posted:I can't say I ever really questioned it or noticed it since that need for revenge never really fit my idea of the characters. I believe there is a line in the first season where Yasaburo talks about tanukis having a much more peaceful nature than Tengu/Humans, and the Shimogamo family clearly wanted to blame their idiocy of letting their dad wander off drunk and alone more than they wanted to blame Benten or the Friday Fellows. Theres some obvious differences but I guess its a little bit like Timothy Treadwell. Even though he was able to "get along" with a lot of grizzly bears he eventually got eaten by one. I don't think many people would think revenge on the bear is the correct answer to that situation or that humankind should rise up and oust the bears just because one person got eaten. Yeah. I think Yasaburou mentions in season 1 that it's just not in a Tanuki's nature to hold a grudge or hate anyone. If Sou'un wasn't a fellow Tanuki and family, I doubt there'd have been as big repercussions of someone basically leading the Tanuki President to his death. If it had been a Tengu or human who did it, I think everyone would have just accepted it as being a sad event that unfortunately is quite common to Tanuki. I don't they'd blame anyone (except maybe Yaichirou would. But he's mentioned as being pretty human-like). Like, Benten is an obviously shady individual who betrayed her respected master and loves eating Tanuki but no one really seems to hate her for it, except for Kaisei. A bunch of people distrust her or a terrified of her, but it's not really dislike. Tanuki are strange is what i'm saying.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 00:27
|
|
|
It's not really a matter of revenge, as much as it is stopping the practice. At this point half the family has been eaten or almost even at that party. You'd think someone would at least ponder how to keep the same thing from happening next year. I mean the tanuki don't seem that dumb. If there's this one bear that just keeps eating people year after year, eventually someone's going to ask if they should do something about the bear.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 01:08
|
|
|
Pavlov posted:It's not really a matter of revenge, as much as it is stopping the practice. At this point half the family has been eaten or almost even at that party. You'd think someone would at least ponder how to keep the same thing from happening next year. I think the Tanuki answer would be to just avoid the bear.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 01:26
|
|
|
Actually yeah, you'd think they'd get in the habit of going on vacation during the time of year people are trying to eat them. Instead they hold their elections on the very day. Maybe tanuki's are just dumb.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 01:33
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:Like, Benten is an obviously shady individual who betrayed her respected master and loves eating Tanuki but no one really seems to hate her for it, except for Kaisei. I'm not certain if Kaisei dislikes Benten because Benten eats people or because Yasaburou is clearly crushing on her. Every time she gets mad about her she gets mad because Yasaburou brought her up... but that's also the only times anyone brings up Benten in her presence. I don't know if I'd be so quick to condemn Benten, either. The show goes out of its way to make her seem opaque and alien, but here's what we know about her life:
It's not hard to read this as a woman in an abusive relationship finding a way to escape her abuser and then taking revenge on him, though you would need to take a much more negative view of Yakushibou's actions than the show presents. I actually sat down and rewatched the first season this evening, after I made that last post. It's striking how much... brattier? Yasaburou is in the beginning compared to where he ends up. Pavlov posted:Those are all interesting reads, but the show would only have needed a few throw-away lines to make that clear. Something like the older brother talking about doing something rash after the dad gets ate, and someone quickly talking him down. Or the younger brother asking why nobody's ever tried stopping things, before the Inescapable Social Order gets explained to him. Or really anyone just lamenting how no tanuki could ever stand up to a human etc. The fact that there's no introspection about this is pretty noticable, given that it's such an obvious bit of world-building to do. For the record, I think the show communicates the tanukis' inability to use their powers against the Friday Fellows is communicated perfectly well. It's made very clear- implicitly and explicitly- that they can't transform or maintain their transformations in high stress situations, and then we're shown that basically anything remotely threatening is a high stress situation for a tanuki. Just the realisation that they're in the same room as the Friday Fellows is enough to make the elders lose their human forms en masse. You barely need to infer here.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 02:05
|
|
|
I feel like the show is trying to portray Benten as a morally ambiguous character, but I disagree with its interpretation if this is the case. Nothing in her history could possibly excuse this sort of thing short of some contrived hidden circumstances (like if some dudes have accosted her and said "yo we'll kill you if you don't catch and eat a tanuki"). I don't blame the tanuki (since, as other people have mentioned, it seems to be in their natures to accept this sort of thing and they're virtually powerless against any opponent they aren't confident about beating from the start), but I do blame the Friday Fellows members who are aware of the tanukis' sentience. To use the bear example someone gave, if bears were sentient I would absolutely blame them for killing a person. The only reason we don't blame them is because, well, they're bears. We can't expect them to know any better. While I can't speak for tanuki, as a human myself I can say with utmost certainty that it would be hosed up if I killed and ate one of the tanuki as portrayed in this show. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Apr 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 02:35
|
|
|
I think it's wrong to view Benten as villainous - or as a victim. She's more... capricious. She's basically the RPG protagonist of this story, the agent of change that shakes things up. Her relationship with Akadama is... complicated - it seems quite possible that taking away his powers is kinda a good thing, because the mellow Akadama that might potentially in the future have a re-approachment with his son is the result. I'd identify the supernatural creatures in the show as ultimately bound by rules and traditions, and as a human Benten is beyond that, and that's why she is important. I don't think the Tanuki allow themselves to be eaten because of a simple reason like 'they are too afraid to fight back', but because of a reason like 'it's right and natural for Tanuki to be eaten by humans, it's a more honorable way to go than old age or being run over by a car'. Think of humans as like your Baba Yaga of fairy tale - are they evil? No, they simply *are*. Fangz fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Apr 19, 2017 |
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 02:42
|
|
|
Eh, if you capriciously murder and eat folks I think that pretty much constitutes being evil. Again, I would agree that I think the show itself is trying to present her in the way you mentioned, but I disagree with that interpretation of her actions.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 02:48
|
|
|
Benten has the awful combination of being cunning, ambitious, and entirely self serving. That's the kind person you either get rid of or get away from as quick as possible, before they can gently caress you over. Because they will always gently caress you over eventually. Also yes, the show is clear about why the tanukis don't just turn into tigers and eat the Fridays (except Yaichiro who almost did exactly that, but whatever). What the show doesn't explain is why nobody considers any other course of action besides doing exactly nothing. For instance: find someone to negotiate with them, pool resources and bribe them, swear fealty to some other power, show the other members they're sentient and guilt trip them, or just tell the MC to figure something out (that seems to be their go-to solution). Fangz posted:I don't think the Tanuki allow themselves to be eaten because of a simple reason like 'they are too afraid to fight back', but because of a reason like 'it's right and natural for Tanuki to be eaten by humans, it's a more honorable way to go than old age or being run over by a car'. Well the dad said something like that, but that was because he was super chill and zen. None of the other tanukis seemed very hot on the idea.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 02:49
|
|
|
It's blatantly wrong to say Benten is entirely self serving given she saves various people loads of times.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 02:52
|
|
|
The show doesn't really seem all that interested in saying anyone's good or evil or anything (outside of Sou'un). I guess you could say it doesn't try to judge anyone. It doesn't say the Friday Fellows are bad for eating sentient creatures of which they maybe sorta know are sentient. Benten's not a bad person for crippling her master without caring about it or eating and capturing the father of someone she's incredibly close to, and she's not a good person for always helping Yasaburou and reconciling with The Professor at the end of the 1st season. Akadama's not wrong for still supporting and giving everything to Benten even though she killed his best friend and betrayed him, nor is he a bad person for his fight with his son. Hotei's not wrong for eating Tanuki and he's not right for deciding to no longer eat Tanuki. Ginkaku and Kinkaku aren't evil for helping their father's plans under full knowledge that Yaichirou was going to die, they're just idiots. Sou'un's the exception. Maybe because it went against family. Maybe because it was a betrayal. Maybe because he's like the only character who's not up front about his desires and goals and stuff. The show has a sorta detached view from morality I guess. It's not something the show's interested in addressing. I kinda enjoy it. It's interesting.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 03:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 12:40 |
|
|
Fangz posted:It's blatantly wrong to say Benten is entirely self serving given she saves various people loads of times. That doesn't mean she can't be helpful, but it only seems to be when she find someone amusing, or she can get something out of them. She never seems actually concerned with anyone else's well-being. Even the MC, who she helps a lot, always seems to be in danger of losing her fancy and ending up in a pot. She doesn't seem to have any real loved ones, or loyalties, and her interaction with the Fridays seem less like friendship and more like the convenient political maneuvering. Unless we learn something new, she seems totally out for herself.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2017 03:07
|
|