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Say this yesterday. Overall, it was Very Good but not Incredible. Here are the pros and cons for ya: Pros: - Best effects i've ever seen I think. I was constantly in awe of the apes and the other effects. The textures on their faces, the fur looked absolutely incredible. Not once did I think that it looks fake. - Very nicely shot, good cinematography. Film looks great. - Awesome opening scene and final scene. - Cesar has fantastic gravity. - Comic relief talking monkey dude. - Again, film looks amazing. Cons: - Woody Harrelson seemed wasted. He's not in it that much and his character was a little dull. Just an rear end in a top hat/sadist. - I know its not an action film, but a little bit more would have been good. A lot of the film seems to be with the apes on horseback and then being in a prison. - Story seemed a little 'small'. There were references to a bigger thing going on (other human factions) but the scale of whats happening seemed a little lost. Maybe that was the point. - Not really a con, but sad to see cesar die. He was badass. But yes, you should see this. henpod fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Jul 13, 2017 |
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Jul 13, 2017 09:39
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You should see this. It's a really good movie. However, I think it's just slightly less good than the previous two. I went to a triple feature last night that showed all three movies: Rise, Dawn, and then War. Rise is an incredibly human movie. The best and worst of humanity lead to the rise of the apes. James Franco's struggle to save his dad is ultimately responsible for Caesar's existence; the cruelty and greed of man (Jacobs, mostly) is responsible for Caesar's turn away from humanity to his own kind. Rise is also the most tightly shot of the films. Every scene matters. Every line. Everything just ties together into this neat little package. It's so good. Dawn is Caesar's best film. This movie really is all about him, and his character arc. His progression from naive chieftan to martyr to warrior-king is so well done. He learns to overcome his prejudices and learns that sometimes, others never will. We also get some good character building for Blue Eyes, and Koba is a very powerful villain. Dawn is my favorite of the three, but just barely. As for War, I never thought I'd see anovert Jesus allegory played out by apes. Caesar gets crucified, and eventually (super spoiler) dies from a stab wound to his side. His disciples take up his mantle, and there's even a Judas. There's even an exodus (which I know wasn't a thing Jesus did, but it really ties into the religious theme.) It was very well done, but it surprised me a lot. I didn't like the Colonel as a villain. His motivation didn't make much sense, and we're told (not shown) what a badass he is. Bad Ape (the comic relief character) was hilarious, but also sort of...unnecessary? It was like if Dobby existed without a purpose. Maurice stole the show in this one. If you're a big fan of Maurice, you're gonna love this. If you like Caesar making hard choices and being a badass, you'll love this. But unlike the others, it has some flaws. Final rating of the series: Rise: 9/10 Dawn: 9/10 War: 8/10
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Jul 13, 2017 17:24
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Where are the people who are not fans of Maurice so I can permaban them?
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Jul 13, 2017 17:50
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GonSmithe posted:Where are the people who are not fans of Maurice so I can permaban them? I wish I knew, but I fully support this endeavor.
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Jul 13, 2017 18:40
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GonSmithe posted:Where are the people who are not fans of Maurice so I can permaban them? Too cruel. Just give them bad ape avatars.
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Jul 13, 2017 20:38
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I'm gonna catch Rise tonight and hopefully Dawn tomorrow so I can see this this weekend. Is this supposed to be the last of a trilogy or are we going to get another movie with the planet finally being one of apes?
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Jul 13, 2017 21:38
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ruddiger posted:Too cruel. Just give them Maurice avatars. 
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Jul 13, 2017 23:59
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GonSmithe posted:Where are the people who are not fans of Maurice so I can permaban them? Never met one and wouldn't want to. I know this guy that I think is really a dick and not fun to be around but even he loves Maurice.
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Jul 14, 2017 00:00
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gently caress Maurice. He sucks. Nah, I'm just kidding. Maurice rules. Don't ban me Quanta posted:Everyone in VFX hates him for it because he takes credit away from the sculptors and animators who are responsible for the facial animation and performance of the CGI characters. There's nothing Serkis does that can't be done with hundreds of other (even amateur) actors. His performances with the head cameras and motion capture suit are purely for reference for the animators and sculptors, and the final product is heavily changed and polished by the animators and the director of the film. High-end VFX is still very cloak-and-dagger and difficult to understand for the layperson, so I suppose it's rife for an unblushing and devious self-promoter like Serkis to take credit for things he shouldn't. Is this really a thing? I never read about it. You have a link to an article or a story that talks about it? Seems to me Serkis must lend something to the process since he seems to be The Guy they use for this sort of poo poo, but I brought up Lon Cheney and Boris Karloff before and I know some "serious people" didn't really consider them to be "actors", so maybe there's a parallel. Seems like the sort of thing someone just winds up doing simply because they're willing and the results are good so they keep doing it but maybe Karloff and Cheney had a knack for it or something. Interesting subject.
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Jul 14, 2017 04:50
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This was seriously great movie. It felt almost like a religious epic by the end though, something akin to Ben Hur/Ten Commandments.
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Jul 14, 2017 05:14
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Orangutans are my favourite animals, so any time Maurice shows up in these films is the best part of these films. Really excited for War - this is one of the few series I still bother going to the cinema for. Got to get my girlfriend caught up first though, so we're having an Ape Night double feature tonight.
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Jul 14, 2017 08:12
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BiggerBoat posted:gently caress Maurice. He sucks. A large counter argument against "Serkis for Best Actor" talk is that the acting is so enhanced by the animators that you can't give all that credit to Serkis. For instance, he did the mocap for Gollum, but it's the animators that twitched expressions to make them larger or more subtle (ie. twitching the eyes more, dilating pupils, adding quivers, extending the range of expression beyond what Serkis could do) that enhances the acting to a level beyond what Serkis did - it's just simply not fair for him to get all of the credit in those roles. He's probably the best at doing the mocap stuff right now, but he's enhanced beyond a level of simple prosthetics and makeup.
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Jul 14, 2017 15:15
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I would like to spend the next 20 pages discussing the logistics and RUINED IMMERSION PLOT HOLE of a 800 lbs Gorilla riding a horse
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Jul 14, 2017 15:26
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I'm gonna catch Rise tonight and hopefully Dawn tomorrow so I can see this this weekend. This is the last of a trilogy.
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Jul 14, 2017 15:33
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The next one is gonna take place in a Ape Office setting 2000 years in the future where robots have enslaved humans to use as batteries and the Apes have to beat the machines in a Matrix because humans are cattle and food source. And Caesar is reborn as Ape Christ I did enjoy the comraderie that evoked a a Fellowship of the Ring feeling Gatts fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jul 14, 2017 |
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Jul 14, 2017 15:35
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I just got back from watching this and it still amazes me that a franchise I hated as a kid has become one of my favourites, I revisited the old films after the release of 5 and loved them. War is not as good as the previous 2 but it's still an excellent film, I probably have similar complaints as others, Maurice fans will be pleased that he gets some good moments and the introduction of mute humans was interesting and quite well handled.
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Jul 14, 2017 17:11
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It's kinda cool how they made this pretty much a complete prequel of at least the first planet of the Apes without stepping on it's toes (although of course the sequels which are fun flicks don't mesh but whatever).Gatts posted:I would like to spend the next 20 pages discussing the logistics and RUINED IMMERSION PLOT HOLE of a 800 lbs Gorilla riding a horse Haha yeah I felt bad for that horse. I liked a lot of stuff with the horses though just as minor stuff. Like the goofy grip stirrups the apes seemed to ride with.
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Jul 15, 2017 00:38
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BiggerBoat posted:Is this really a thing? I never read about it. You have a link to an article or a story that talks about it? Serkis gets these roles purely because of the success of Gollum and Caesar and the incorrect belief he played a major role in both of these CGI characters. He was just in the right place at the right time. As I mentioned earlier, even an amateur actor is/would be suffice for motion capture performances. In fact, a number of full CGI, hero characters in the recent past and in major upcoming films have cheap, jobbing TV actors for their motion capture, yet you'll never hear their name promoted like Serkis's. There's an incorrect understanding (pedalled by Serkis in the media) that somehow the dots painted on Serkis's face and the cameras mounted on his head drive the facial performance of characters like Gollum and Caesar -- that's 100% not the case in film VFX. The footage from the head camera is only used as reference by animators for lip syncing. The final performance on screen will deviate substantially from what the motion capture actor - like Serkis - provided once the director starts viewing renders and begins providing feedback to animators. This is a simplified pipeline of how facial animation works for a character like Caesar: - A 3D model of Caesar is created. - A facial modeller sculpts all possible facial movements, phonemes and expressions on to Caesar's 3d model -- they essentially create a different model for each movement/expression, so we end up with 200 - 300 separate models. These are called 'blendshapes'. This is normally the most difficult and time-consuming stage because the modeller needs to ensure the muscle movement and skin sliding all look natural. - The blendshapes are then plugged into a 'rig' for animators, so they can begin combining shapes to make the character talk, express, etc. with various controls on the rig. - The animators use the footage from the head cameras to create a lip sync. Once that's complete, they'll begin animating the rest of the face and adding micro expressions. It's a big team effort and, for a character like Caesar, a dozen or more very senior, highly skilled animators will create his facial performance. The body motion capture will also be heavily edited. Motion capture directly applied to a CGI character, unfortunately, looks artificial, floaty and video gamey. Rollie Fingers fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 00:46
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Quanta posted:Stuff about Serkis and Caeser. Interesting post. I assume from your tone that you work in the industry and do this sort of work?
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Jul 15, 2017 01:18
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War of the Planet of the Apes is easily the best one out of the three. Woody Harrelson's villain was superb and not a one-dimensional cliche like superhero villains are. They're calling this a trilogy, but I know a fourth one is already being planned. Maybe it will take place 50 years into the future or something?
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Jul 15, 2017 03:12
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Just finished Rise. Wow James Franco is just one giant gently caress up.
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Jul 15, 2017 03:13
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Just saw this. It was very good. I'd rank them: 1) Rise 2) War 3) Dawn
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Jul 15, 2017 03:23
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Any amateur actor off the street could play any part, in theory. It's not like flesh and blood actors don't have assistance, from directors, editors, cinematographers, the big stars have their own writers, etc. Unless there's effectively nothing of Serkis' choices that remains in the on-screen performance it's a little much to say he's completely interchangeable with anyone else.
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Jul 15, 2017 04:22
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Wow this is by far the best Planet of the Apes movie in my opinion and it puts the whole trilogy up there with Lord of the Rings, The Batman, and Star Wars in my opinion. The greatest part of the film is how connected and grounded it is in the second films and the decisions taken by Caesar directly effecting things into this film... I think this plays out a lot more like Moses than Jesus - especially considering how flawed Caesar ends up appearing in this drat movie. I think it's probably influenced to some extent by Moses and a couple of other mythologic messiah like figures in history just a bit compressed. With Caesar leaving his chosen people due to poor decisions and returning to save them (albeit indirectly) much like Moses when he killed a Egyptian and ran off to the wilderness. I was completely stunned when they Killed off Caesars family in the first 20 minutes, that's was a absolute gut punch and lended the gravitas to make Caesar's blind pursuit of revenge very believable. Considering how much they built up these characters over the past two films. It's probably one of the best character arcs I've seen on screen. I think this will kind of be taught in film school now on how to properly do a character arc alongside Star Wars. The interplay between Caesar and Woody Harrelson in the scene where he's admits to killing his own son is probably one of the best villan/hero interactions I've seen put on film in recent years. Really well written and acted. The only part I really found unbelievable or disliked was The donkey's turning in the final battle. Made zero sense really - if they were gonna turn I'd expect them to have turned earlier. It's a incredible testimony that this series through three completely seperate scriptwriters, directors, and films told such a complete story of a individual from birth to death. I can't say I know another film series that's done that - much less well. JailTrump fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Jul 15, 2017 |
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Jul 15, 2017 04:24
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Overall I thought it was really good, and am still kind of impressed that this iteration of the franchise became ALL about the apes with humans pushed as far to the periphery as the story will permit. What stood out to me, while watching it, though, was just how drat good the CGI has gotten. You take that sort of thing for granted in these movies, of course computers can do anything nowadays. In Rise, the animation was very good but there were the telltale signs that you were seeing a CGI character in a live action environment, just a subtle sense that it didn't match. In Dawn it was much smoother, and here- there are some shots that are completely seamless, where even knowing Caesar and company are CG creations I really could not tell, and where they just match so well with the live action material. There are a few shots, mostly long crowd shots and stuff that's really busy, where it's a little more apparent, but considering how much of this movie is CGI and how great most of it is, with the hair effects, lighting, focus changes, water droplets, snowflakes, etc., it's an insane accomplishment.
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Jul 15, 2017 04:37
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Maxwell Lord posted:Overall I thought it was really good, and am still kind of impressed that this iteration of the franchise became ALL about the apes with humans pushed as far to the periphery as the story will permit.
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Jul 15, 2017 05:13
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RedSpider posted:They're calling this a trilogy, but I know a fourth one is already being planned. Maybe it will take place 50 years into the future or something? There was a news report in the first one about a space mission's craft vanishing.
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Jul 15, 2017 05:16
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Timeless Appeal posted:To be fair, 3/5 of the original series is about the apes. Yeah but they try to give Heston and Franciscus and Ricardo Montalban and such all decent amounts of screen time. This is like 90% CGI apes clomping around with the occasional human. It's like the Dark Crystal. Plus from the start with Rise they were all "Okay the humans are the enemy in this series. There will be the occasional evil ape but gently caress it, death to mankind."
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Jul 15, 2017 05:16
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Maxwell Lord posted:Yeah but they try to give Heston and Franciscus and Ricardo Montalban and such all decent amounts of screen time. This is like 90% CGI apes clomping around with the occasional human. It's like the Dark Crystal. My whole theatre laughed and cheered at the avalanche at the end and I don't know if it's funnier that they didn't understand the implications of that or if they did. It was fantastic though and I wish the Transformers series had enough balls to be 'gently caress off humans' like the Apes trilogy has. Give Matt Reeves some Star Wars to make. The fact that he makes Bad Ape work so completely rather than making him into a Jar Jar cartoon is qualification enough.
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Jul 15, 2017 06:55
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My audience totally understood. One of the soldiers was about to shoot Ceasar, a lot of people gasped, and the avalanche was cheered. They have a line in the movie that while the Colonel is a rogue agent, humanity as a whole hates apes just as much as he does.
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Jul 15, 2017 16:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8swTzzdwfI The DT guys gave it a Better Than Sex rating; their highest one! 
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Jul 15, 2017 16:59
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JailTrump posted:It's probably one of the best character arcs I've seen on screen. I think this will kind of be taught in film school now on how to properly do a character arc alongside Star Wars. lmao
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Jul 15, 2017 17:03
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MisterBibs posted:
Thats true, the Colonel does say at one point that Ceasar shouldn't have much hope for the northern forces after they take Woody out because they're as afraid of the Apes as the Colonels force.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:19
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What was funny about that post?
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Jul 15, 2017 23:44
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Maxwell Lord posted:What stood out to me, while watching it, though, was just how drat good the CGI has gotten. It still blows my mind when I see people complain about CGI being used for creature effects. It's gotten amazing in the past few years, and every year the complaints make less sense. The Planet of the Apes movies in particular have all done great work with it.
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Jul 16, 2017 00:21
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BiggerBoat posted:What was funny about that post? the CGI monkey who becomes super smart is one of the greatest character arcs in all of cinema and is going to be taught in film school
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Jul 16, 2017 00:48
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Gatts posted:I would like to spend the next 20 pages discussing the logistics and RUINED IMMERSION PLOT HOLE of a 800 lbs Gorilla riding a horse Also there wasn't enough tactical realism in this so-called "war" movie
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Jul 16, 2017 00:53
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Can't wait for just straight up Planet of the Apes.
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Jul 16, 2017 01:41
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ThePlague-Daemon posted:It still blows my mind when I see people complain about CGI being used for creature effects. It's gotten amazing in the past few years, and every year the complaints make less sense. The Planet of the Apes movies in particular have all done great work with it. I kinda get it because it used to be "how did they DO that?" And now everyone knows it's "with a computer." (Though it's more complex than that.) But even knowing that I don't know how they managed to pull off some of these shots within a reasonable budget (IMDB says 150 million). Between the various layers you'd have to have and the kinds of effects involved, and of course almost every drat shot having an ape in it. This movie really seems to represent the state of the art.
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Jul 16, 2017 02:50
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Good movie. CGI was so good that my wife asked after the movie if it was CGI or real animals. The humorous and compassionate moments added a lot to the film without turning the movie into a silly comedy. Really well done. The Moses and Exodus similarities were interesting. Bad Ape was just hilarious. Only minor complaint is the tactical realism was basically ignored, like a soldier going into the gated prison area to shoot an ape instead of standing outside and shooting through the bars. Or the human guards unable to notice much at all during the prison break.
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Jul 16, 2017 02:56
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