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No, you could not just get some amateur actor off the street to play Caesar. Andy Serkis is a phenomenal actor / voice actor/ physical actor. Maybe you should watch some other films that he is in. He's just a really great actor. Just kind of a lovely thing to say.
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Jul 16, 2017 03:14
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Yeah, gently caress off with dissing Andy Serkis that hard. He MAKES these characters. Also this movie is amazing - I was a huge fan when the 1st turned out to be goddamn amazing. One of the best trilogies out there and deserves way more accolades.
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Jul 16, 2017 04:12
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The avalanche was whatever. Caesar enduring his injury up until they crest the last ridge to the promised land was also whatever. There were a few too many incidents that coincidentally occurred to suit the plot, but I guess after the first one or two it didn't bother me as much. I got over it and enjoyed the flick. They aren't worth worrying about. The tactical realism was missing, but then again that is not what I came to the movie for. I didn't miss it, but there were...many problems. I'll settle for maybe not building the fuel tanks right next to the big wall you're using to protect your fort. Not to mention modern weaponry made forts tactically irrelevant 150+ years ago blah blah blah. The fewer (but more than zero) apes/humans fighting on screen, the better. Donkey was going to turn, but I just got tired after the fifth or sixth "BY THE WAY GUYS, DONKEY IS CONSIDERING TURNING" mini-interaction before it finally happened. What was the purpose of the subplot with getting the kids to safety? Did we just need to see baby monkeys climbing on ropes, or am I forgetting something that came out of that? It feels like something good got cut. What was the purpose of the doll in Caesar's cage? For a second, I thought they were going to say the little girl and the colonel had both been affected by it, somehow, which obviously makes no sense but I didn't see any other connection. It feels, again, like something else got cut from this. So, the colonel wakes up one morning, discovers he can't speak, and completely falls apart. Fair enough, and warranted for the character they've provided us so far. Good thing it happened at the exact moment of the attack AND the apes' escape, I guess. It was a neat way of letting Caesar get away with not killing the colonel, but I was hoping he'd have the chance to do it straight-up in the way he planned, but then deciding not to because it would doom his tribe. I was expecting some kind of development with the soldier spared by Caesar. There were so many long glances during the prisoner escort scenes, and then he just plinks Caesar at the end and hasn't registered any shift. It's not as interesting a development (or lack of one) as I was anticipating based on how much time they gave him on screen. Enjoyable, but not as good as the first one.
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Jul 16, 2017 05:01
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Zeris posted:What was the purpose of the doll in Caesar's cage? For a second, I thought they were going to say the little girl and the colonel had both been affected by it, somehow, which obviously makes no sense but I didn't see any other connection. Girl was infected. Due to close contact, the doll was covered with her germs. When the colonial took and kept the doll, either for sentimental reasons or because he was trying to figure out how it ended up in Caesar's cage, the germs passed to him and he became infected too.
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Jul 16, 2017 05:21
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Zeris posted:What was the purpose of the doll in Caesar's cage? For a second, I thought they were going to say the little girl and the colonel had both been affected by it, somehow, which obviously makes no sense but I didn't see any other connection. It feels, again, like something else got cut from this. The doll is what infects the colonel with the mutated virus that makes him unable to speak. So, in essence, the girl kills him. Great movie, really enjoyed it. Watched the first two for the first time this week leading up to War and enjoyed them all quite a lot.
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Jul 16, 2017 05:22
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Zeris posted:So, the colonel wakes up one morning, discovers he can't speak, and completely falls apart. Fair enough, and warranted for the character they've provided us so far. Good thing it happened at the exact moment of the attack AND the apes' escape, I guess. It was a neat way of letting Caesar get away with not killing the colonel, but I was hoping he'd have the chance to do it straight-up in the way he planned, but then deciding not to because it would doom his tribe. It wasn't a coincidence. The colonel was exposed to the virus by the contaminated doll (he picked it up) the infected little girl left behind in that cage. You are really bad at watching movies.
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Jul 16, 2017 05:30
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RedSpider posted:It wasn't a coincidence. The colonel was exposed to the virus by the contaminated doll (he picked it up) the infected little girl left behind in that cage. You are really bad at watching movies. That's why it makes for a poor explanation. It ignores how viruses work and how infections would spread, if this were the reason. The virus spreads through dolls, but a dad living in isolation never catches it from his daughter (he speaks to the apes, remember)? The soldiers are stupid enough to respond to 3 of their symptomatic friends by killing them and calling it a day -- no other form of quarantine? The colonel's big speech includes a note that "the same virus living in all of us survivors has mutated" which strongly implies there's another mechanism at play, like spontaneous evolution or whatever sci fi idea they'd need to justify all of the other oversights I just mentioned. Ok, I'll totally buy that the doll as the source was the plan. But they botched the implementation. Not sure why you are taking this personally.
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Jul 16, 2017 06:11
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Having the attack in the movie at all felt cheap and lazy and convenient and any other whatever you want to throw at it. Doesn't help that the final bit is by far the worst CG in any of these movies. It should have just stayed as some future dread that motivated the current situation. Also monkeys on horses are an amazing image and the shot with the four of em in silhouette is by far my favorite part of the movie.
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Jul 16, 2017 08:20
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So, Maurice was an actual monkey with a classically trained background in theatre, right.
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Jul 16, 2017 09:23
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Quanta posted:Serkis gets these roles purely because of the success of Gollum and Caesar and the incorrect belief he played a major role in both of these CGI characters. Are you just ignoring the fact Serkis does the voices for these characters which is obviously a pretty big part of the character?
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Jul 16, 2017 10:01
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Zeris posted:That's why it makes for a poor explanation. It ignores how viruses work and how infections would spread, if this were the reason. The virus spreads through dolls, but a dad living in isolation never catches it from his daughter (he speaks to the apes, remember)? The soldiers are stupid enough to respond to 3 of their symptomatic friends by killing them and calling it a day -- no other form of quarantine? The colonel's big speech includes a note that "the same virus living in all of us survivors has mutated" which strongly implies there's another mechanism at play, like spontaneous evolution or whatever sci fi idea they'd need to justify all of the other oversights I just mentioned. Ok, I'll totally buy that the doll as the source was the plan. But they botched the implementation. Not sure why you are taking this personally. Sure man, a virus strain that makes intelligent all species of ape, except humans which makes them dumber, is totally how viruses work.
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Jul 16, 2017 17:21
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The colonels men had a fanatic, suicidal bent to them, the graffiti around their compound leads me to think that the gas tankers were intentional. Also that little chant they do is partly to suss out whether anyone has been infected
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Jul 16, 2017 17:39
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Totally loved this one. I'm a big Apes fan and the original Charlton Heston Apes is in the running for my favorite movie. What I liked most about this one is that it never let Caesar off the hook. Dawn really challenged his worldview with Koba and they just hammered home not just the toll that Koba put on him but also made him recognize those existing tendencies in himself. Even after being given enough of a view that revenge and rage is self destructive to allow him to progress, the movie still doesn't let it go. It helps nail the loss he felt at the beginning and make it feel less like a cheap stunt to propel the plot. I didn't like skinny Col Kurtz much at first but when they settled in to show his motivations and current concerns, it made all of the previous events seem less shallowly villainous. Once the movie made a surprising (at least to me) genre shift, his character works so much better. If I had a criticism of the movie, I wish the "work project" the apes were necessary for felt more likely to actually make a difference. If I rewrote it, I would have had the avalanche be part of the plan all along and the apes would have been building protection for the fort/digging tunnels from that avalanche. It would have felt less DEM and as a work project would have felt more reasonable than expecting a mound of rock to stop a modern army. That said, forcing apes to be a labor force helps echo my second favorite original Apes series movie, Conquest. Bad Ape was a great addition not only for a bit of humor among the bleak nature of a prison movie but also it gave some audible dialogue for the long stretches it would have been without them. It was a good creative decision without having to rob the rare moments of non-Caesar speech of their poignancy. Also quite happy that the War wasn't actually Ape vs Human. It's extremely rare when a big CG battle scene actually feels like it matters because the scale always dwarfs any character connection you have. But they focused on one tiny and narrow element - protect the escaping Apes and make Caesar the sole person you need to empathize and really follow. Let the facelessness of the big War stay out of focus with faceless human beings. Super smart decision that didn't toss out all of the previous work for a big Ape v Human scuffle. So great to have a trilogy of films so consistently well realized and executed. Great and relateable CG characters from Caesar, Maurice (those drat eyes are so mesmerizing), and Koba along with good motivation for the human actors. And if they make a future Apes movie with a similar perversion of Caesar's belief system, I'll feel quite angry about it. So happy.
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Jul 16, 2017 20:47
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nelson posted:Sure man, a virus strain that makes intelligent all species of ape, except humans which makes them dumber, is totally how viruses work. That's a really good point, the movie is actually about the doll, and it represents the burning bush which evokes fire but also evokes prometheus' fire, but in reverse, makes way more sense.
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Jul 16, 2017 21:58
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I got to see this earlier today and I have to say I'd rate it just a little bit less than the other films they really were to on the nose a bit with all the Jesus / Moses allegory of Caesar. Like it's not even a similar, Caeser is betrayed by a Judas, Crucified, Whipped, Pierced in the side , and even mocked while on the cross It was still good but it really suffered during the middle portion of the movie.
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Jul 17, 2017 02:39
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Ape Agitator posted:If I had a criticism of the movie, I wish the "work project" the apes were necessary for felt more likely to actually make a difference. It gave me the impression that in an earlier version of the script the movie was meant to parallel iconic moments in Exodus much more directly instead of just have Christ parallels, so the plot had to work around getting the imagery of the apes getting enslaved and having to move heavy rocks. There's a "great flood" also that devours both sides of the human military forces. At the same time it didn't seem too out there, as we learn the "work project" is happening more out of urgent desperation, and we're in a severely depopulated under-resourced earth so they had to work with what was there. I liked this movie A LOT. And I again have to say I'm in awe at how good the CG apes are for how relatively lower the budget is for this. Overall I think this is just as good as Dawn, the only that holds it back isn't really something you can hold against it and that's just that it's the third movie. It continues from Dawn so effectively while I think Dawn can stand on its own even if someone didn't see Rise. The movie ends in such a way that it could easily be followed up by a Planet of the Apes remake, I think that's why the details of the virus are kept a little vague beyond the basic "now it quickly degenerates someone's brain making them ape-like" But I liked that aspect of it a lot, because we see that Nova's lost her knowledge, but she's hardly stupid or unable to function. The Colonel has racist eugenics 101 stuff laced throughout his interpretation of how the world and the virus works. But Nova gave me the impression that the virus' new nature isn't the hopeless death sentence the Colonel lays it out to be, which is why the rest of the military was fine with quarantining people and trying to find a solution. The Colonel's son didn't become the way he was JUST from the virus, but because his dad was the Colonel. Nova's able to survive because Caesar/etc. basically treat her the same way James Franco was treating Caesar, that's cool. I was expecting the full circle of Caesar Refusing to kill the Colonel but then the Colonel losing too much of his mental faculties to be able to kill himself. That was still able to made me think that, again, the virus robbed his ability to speak but didn't actually effect him otherwise, especially when it makes such a point to show how much alcohol he consumed. Not long after that happens we see an immediate example of how our voices aren't what make us human, and that actions speak louder than words - Donkey is so awed by Caesar's willingness to sacrifice himself that he's able to ignore a human shouting orders at him. That's awesome. Anyway I think maybe they don't explicitly say a lot of that about how it works so that they can have some flexibility on what direction a potential fourth movie might go in. Bad Ape is fantastic. That's a character that would have been so easy to screw up, but instead he's a standout and adds a lot to the movie. The way Caesar's own views are challenged is really impressive too. As leader of the apes in Dawn he works so hard to try to avoid violence. When he finally decides that Koba needs to die, like he's sort of collectively taking away the apes' innocence as it were (and of course from himself), as War goes on we see in realizing the tragedy of how he did that for nothing, and how apes that allied with the humans did so in Koba's name. Like the movie gives him a lot to chew on throughout. Maurice. :O Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Jul 17, 2017 |
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Jul 17, 2017 02:50
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I still can't figure out why but I was slightly disappointed with it, I liked a lot of the elements, the tone, the characters, but some of the plot beats felt unearned like Luca's death right after the first scene with the apes connecting with Nova. The more I think about it though, the more I'm surprised they managed to make a good blockbuster movie out of a desolate prison movie with very few spoken dialogue.
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Jul 17, 2017 09:46
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Ape Agitator posted:If I had a criticism of the movie, I wish the "work project" the apes were necessary for felt more likely to actually make a difference. Me too. My hope was the wall was just a ruse and the real intent was to dig up an atom bomb that the colonial knew was stored underground there. It would have made a bigger connection with the alpha-omega name of the group... and an accidental (or purposeful) activation would provide a much more interesting end to the other humans than an avalanche.
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Jul 17, 2017 14:38
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nelson posted:Me too. My hope was the wall was just a ruse and the real intent was to dig up an atom bomb that the colonial knew was stored underground there. It would have made a bigger connection with the alpha-omega name of the group... and an accidental (or purposeful) activation would provide a much more interesting end to the other humans than an avalanche. They must have been really banking on this movie doing great and eventually doing remakes of the original series, because they set up a perfect scenario for A bunch of Alpha Omega soldiers without the ability to speak trapped underground and for the site of the avalanche to become telepathic underground inhabitants of the Forbidden Zone. The racial purity bent of the group would even fit the development in Beneath where they think they're super advanced because they developed telepathy, but it doesn't actually work on non-humans and their reasoning for that is because ape minds are "too primitive," in that movie they end up only really using their ability to cause more conflict. I actually thought they were implying something like that with Gary Oldman's character in Rise, either way I hope they do get to really go through with remaking Planet of the Apes/etc. because this trilogy is awesome.
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Jul 17, 2017 16:04
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Sup with Nova not giving a poo poo that they killed the dude who I guess helped her flee and is possibly her dad? She was just like "oh he's dead? cool lets roll ape bros"
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Jul 17, 2017 21:01
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Did the deaf girl's father have a gun and was about to shoot the apes when he was going to drop those sticks, or did Ceasar just flat out shoot him? I think I saw a rifle underneath the sticks, but it happened too fast.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:23
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MisterBibs posted:Did the deaf girl's father have a gun and was about to shoot the apes when he was going to drop those sticks, or did Ceasar just flat out shoot him? I think I saw a rifle underneath the sticks, but it happened too fast. Yes, he was drawing a gun when Caesar shot him.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:25
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MisterBibs posted:Did the deaf girl's father have a gun and was about to shoot the apes when he was going to drop those sticks, or did Ceasar just flat out shoot him? I think I saw a rifle underneath the sticks, but it happened too fast. He had a gun hanging from a strap on his shoulder. He very clearly grabbed the gun and attempted to shoot them.
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Jul 17, 2017 21:25
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and she didnt give a poo poo
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Jul 17, 2017 21:36
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It's also possible that he was not related but was an objector to the harsh sentence for the infected. They question whether he was a deserter but I thought, in retrospect, he might have just been trying to do the right thing. Of course, his reaction to the Apes was still violence first. I didn't think much of their relationship but perhaps a general "caretaker" is a possibility. Ares definitely able to form relationships in her sick status so if she cared about him I think it would have shown. Admittedly me reading into it without any evidence though.
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Jul 17, 2017 23:41
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I think another aspect of it was that she was surrounded by a bunch of strange, dangerous apes. She wasn't in a position to openly grieve at that point like she was later.
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Jul 19, 2017 00:04
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I was expecting there to be a reveal that spending time with the apes had let her recover a bit. She wasn't bleeding from the face and could muster some communication after traveling with them.
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Jul 19, 2017 00:18
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RCarr posted:He had a gun hanging from a strap on his shoulder. He very clearly grabbed the gun and attempted to shoot them. not only that he got some shots off The main melody sounded like melody from Radio protector by 65daysofstatic. Spend half the movie trying to figure that out.
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Jul 19, 2017 03:39
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RedSpider posted:War of the Planet of the Apes is easily the best one out of the three. Woody Harrelson's villain was superb and not a one-dimensional cliche like superhero villains are. That would be my guess, maybe 20 years into the future when Nova and Cornelius are adults.
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Jul 19, 2017 18:21
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Know what I really appreciated about this movie? The score. It's loud and intrusive, with snares and xylophones. You don't hear scores like this very often anymore and it absolutely gives it an old-timey vibe while still being used to great effect for setting the tone.
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Jul 19, 2017 23:46
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It reminded me of the original score.
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Jul 19, 2017 23:48
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Boosh! posted:It reminded me of the original score. Definitely, which I'm sure is what they were going for.
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Jul 19, 2017 23:52
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One of my friends who never saw the original caught that just on the level of it "sounding like 60s sci-fi.' I liked how the score for Dawn wasn't afraid to get loud either.
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Jul 20, 2017 00:03
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Really enjoyed the movie, a bit less than previous ones. Was bummed out when read about the Christian allegory. Why do you have to stuff Christianity into every movie nowadays?
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Jul 20, 2017 00:10
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Monglo posted:Really enjoyed the movie, a bit less than previous ones. Was bummed out when read about the Christian allegory. Why do you have to stuff Christianity into every movie nowadays? Uh, this is clearly Jewish allegory, my dude.
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Jul 20, 2017 01:46
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Monglo posted:Really enjoyed the movie, a bit less than previous ones. Was bummed out when read about the Christian allegory. Why do you have to stuff Christianity into every movie nowadays? Yeah it just ruins movies, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FcTzH6A4a4 The Great Apescape was pretty good, I'll have to see Rise and Dawn sometime now
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Jul 20, 2017 03:12
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The long shot of Maurice's face when he is first meeting the little girl is probably the most incredibly impressive special effects I've ever seen. I remember driving home and looking up whether he was CG or real in Rise because I just couldn't believe the CG was that good and the CG in this one is basically flawless and completely amazing. Loved the movie overall but I hated, hated, hated Caesar dying at the end. In a "tactical realism" sense it was loving dumb that his internal injury didn't bother him during the thousand-mile hike or whatever and he could outrun an avalanche with it but it just immediately killed him at the end of it. Just from an "I Love Caesar" standpoint it would have been cool to see Caesar finally get to relax and be a peacetime ruler after all his pain and suffering. It's still a fitting end to the best original trilogy of the 2000s and I'd be 100% down for 3 more movies following Nova, Cornelius, and Bad Ape in the future. Oh and Donkey should have either stayed bad, turned earlier, or gone hard as a motherfucker when he turned. This was probably the weakest part of the movie to me, you can watch the humans straight-up enslave and machine-gun children but the sight of wounded Caesar changes your heart? And at the very least, if you're going to turn, signify to the humans you're no longer on their side by going rip-poo poo ape-crazy and yanking off arms and legs rather than sort of docilely getting shot in the head.
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Jul 20, 2017 04:51
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I just saw this movie yesterday even though I haven't seen the previous two and I was blown away. Really good movie. I thought it was going to be just a cliche war movie but with monkeys and I was really surprised that I was invested in the characters and it had a good plot. Definitely going to see the previous two.
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Jul 20, 2017 18:38
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The first two are really good and worth checking out also even if you know how the story ends.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:25
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I thought this movie sucked. A lot. fine, spoiler. First of all, it was boring as hell. WAR for the planet of the apes takes place almost entirely in a loving prison and ends with one little battle. And the writing was so LAZY. Multiple times characters live just long enough to say something before dying. Caesar's death another cliche. Donkey's heart finally growing two sizes another cliche. Characters acting like morons not guarding the front door or watching the cages all night. Oh we have a bunch of soldiers how do we get rid of them? How about an avalanche. The whole script could have been written in a day blue squares fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Jul 22, 2017 |
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Jul 22, 2017 03:36
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