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Man Musk
Jan 13, 2010

Helsing posted:

:lol:

He sold more than $100 billion worth of weapons to Saudi Arabia during his time in office and provided logistical support for their starvation campaign against Yemen, in which the Saudis are consciously destroying port infrastructure and denying foodshipments and have created an artifical famine that is threatening millions of lives. Then, less than two months before leaving office his now lame-duck administration cancelled the sale of some Raytheon munitions. That's some embargo, what a brave and humanitarian President.

The logistical support part is another angle sure but dunnae about the strength of the sales and embargo argument as u simply can't unsell anyone merch due to space-time constraints and our preoccupation with the current dimension

It would take another type of cunning to break an embargo...

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Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/879414110810591232

lmao read that TL. Brown Moses is melting the gently caress down after Seymour Hersh caleld bullshit on the Sarin attack and Trump's gonna bomb Syria even more

rudatron
May 31, 2011

by Fluffdaddy
that particular tweet storm is accusing the media of being cowards for not turning on cameras during spicer's meetings, but his piece on the latest attack is quite bad, a lot of whinging about hersh using an anonymous source (lol) and some really dumb nitpicking, like this loving gem:

quote:

Ignoring the fact that the version of events presented by Hersh runs counter to narratives produced by all sides, the claims around the chemical exposure are also worth examining. Hersh refers to “a Bomb Damage Assessment (BDA) by the U.S. military” of the strike, which he provides no source for, which supposedly states “a series of secondary explosions that could have generated a huge toxic cloud that began to spread over the town, formed by the release of the fertilizers, disinfectants and other goods stored in the basement”. He describes the symptoms seen in victims as “consistent with the release of a mixture of chemicals, including chlorine and the organophosphates used in many fertilizers, which can cause neurotoxic effects similar to those of sarin.” Here it is worth pointing out that organophosphates are used as pesticides, not fertilizers, and it’s unclear if this error is from Hersh himself or his anonymous source. This is not the only factual error in the report, with Hersh stating an SU-24 was used in the attack, not an SU-22 as claimed by every other source, including the US government.

rudatron
May 31, 2011

by Fluffdaddy
actually after reading hersch's piece, and bm's reponse, I'm 99% convinced the chemical attack never happened, both because of the points he raised, but also because it didn't make sense for assad to use a chemical weapon in that bombing in the first place.

this whole thing reminds me of that mcnamara documentary more than anything, about the gulf of tonkin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A_X_6_9m2s

rudatron has issued a correction as of 04:03 on Jun 28, 2017

rudatron
May 31, 2011

by Fluffdaddy
actually the whole thing is good if you have an hour to waste so here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8ZhIi57x-4&t=2s

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
ya know after some indian delivery (lamb curry) and a couple of strong scotch n sodas i am not concerned about syria at all

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
elliot you idiot!!

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

This isn't the Syria thread, but I'd like to know how Brown Moses feels about the liberal media completely ignoring his report about the mosque bombing like we said they would.

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
what mask bombing

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Baloogan posted:

what mask bombing

Exactly.

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
mollusk bombing

Michael Bayleaf
Jun 4, 2006

Tortured By Flan

rudatron posted:

actually the whole thing is good if you have an hour to waste so here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8ZhIi57x-4&t=2s

I love this doc and everyone should watch it

edit this is a much better video though

https://vimeo.com/149799416

Michael Bayleaf has issued a correction as of 11:40 on Jun 28, 2017

Man Musk
Jan 13, 2010

It pertains to the problem of the brothers who are with you in their unfortunate celibacy and lack of availability of wives for them in the conditions that have been imposed on them. We pray to God to release them. I wrote to Shaykh/Doctor ((Ayman)), [al-Zawahiri], and I consulted with Shaykh ((Abu Yahya)) [al-Libbi].

Dr. Ayman has written us his opinion … As we see it, we have no objection to clarifying to the brothers that they may, in such conditions, masturbate, since this is an extreme case. The ancestors approved this for the community. They advised the young men at the time of the conquest to do so. It has also been prescribed by the legists when needed, and there is no doubt that the brothers are in a state of extreme need.

gucci bane
Oct 27, 2008



Does anyone with credibility in real life think that Hersh article is real?

Main Paineframe
Oct 27, 2010

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

This isn't the Syria thread, but I'd like to know how Brown Moses feels about the liberal media completely ignoring his report about the mosque bombing like we said they would.

he was so sure it was going to be a big deal and change everything

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

He got owned by Mark Ames so hard that he resorted to retweet a link to a 2014 GBS thread calling Ames a pedo.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001
man he and ames are really goin at it

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Don't tease this out and not post links.


https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled/status/880383299985735681


lmao

Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 19:44 on Jun 29, 2017

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


https://twitter.com/PaulSzoldra/status/882617950758248450

The Foreverwar

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I mean I'm 22 and don't have any real emotional connection with 9/11. My only emotion around it is basically just how the neolib and neocon establishment handled the, uh, aftermath.

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

The post-9/11 social transformation of America was one of the most bizarre and terrifying things I've ever lived through, especially since I allowed my 16 year old self to get swept up in it.

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2017/07/05/Cholera-in-Yemen-A-new-Houthi-weapon-killing-thousands.html

*while blowing up docks, roads, neighborhoods*

"Stop killing yourself, stop killing yourself, stop killing yourself..."

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2017/07/05/Cholera-in-Yemen-A-new-Houthi-weapon-killing-thousands.html

*while blowing up docks, roads, neighborhoods*

"Stop killing yourself, stop killing yourself, stop killing yourself..."

what a monstrous article

Peel
Dec 3, 2007

i don't buy the hersh story but i'm not 100% because the bm response was so wanky and petulant i couldn't bring myself to actually read it

the bitcoin of weed
Nov 1, 2014

My takeaway from the Hersh story is that it doesn't really make a difference if his version of the bombing is true to any degree, the big thing is that we couldn't have possibly known what had happened by the time our president made the decision to performatively bomb an empty airfield because he saw some photos of dead kids and our actual intelligence had almost zero influence on that decision making process

and when you think about that for more than 10 seconds it's scary as heck

Peel
Dec 3, 2007

khan sheikoun is horrific but ultimately a rounding error in the aggregate suffering of the civil war

trump raring off half-cocked and being rewarded with lockstep support from the supposedly trump-sceptical press is not a good precedent for the next 3.5 years of the country that did the iraq war

Squizzle
Apr 24, 2008




Jose posted:

how do death tolls get independently verified?

ghost census

Byolante
Mar 23, 2008

by Cyrano4747
Judging by the track record of the US intelligence community I don't know why you think the net result would somehow be better if Trump had waited for them to tell him to drone a wedding.

Jewel Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.

Larry Parrish posted:

I mean I'm 22 and don't have any real emotional connection with 9/11. My only emotion around it is basically just how the neolib and neocon establishment handled the, uh, aftermath.

Same. The event itself was weird and scary but the infuriating political response made me feel a lot worse.

Agnosticnixie
Jan 6, 2015

Larry Parrish posted:

I mean I'm 22 and don't have any real emotional connection with 9/11. My only emotion around it is basically just how the neolib and neocon establishment handled the, uh, aftermath.

The overall war frenzy it kicked off is probably the main reason 9/11 truther theories is the most common conspiracy theory imo (iirc something like a quarter of americans have doubts about the official version of it), because it's so hard to believe something that was so perfect in every way for the neocon/neolib establishment was just the US sleeping at the switch. Watching the societal change happen as a teen was horrifying truth be told (esp. growing up in a middle eastern, muslim community).

After 16 years of war on terror propaganda, Trump is starting to feel more like a culmination (or a step towards it) than an aberration.

Agnosticnixie has issued a correction as of 02:31 on Jul 7, 2017

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014




It became necessary to destroy the town to save it

fabergay egg
Mar 1, 2012

it's not a rhetorical question, for politely saying 'you are an idiot, you don't know what you are talking about'


Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The post-9/11 social transformation of America was one of the most bizarre and terrifying things I've ever lived through, especially since I allowed my 16 year old self to get swept up in it.

i was in israel at the time, of 9/11, and i recall people saying that "now they will know how it feels." i watched it all unfold live on tv, and that phrase, is the only thing i can ever think about, especially in the context of what you posted. i was ten.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

From the voice of the perpretatos themselves

Proust Malone
Apr 4, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The post-9/11 social transformation of America was one of the most bizarre and terrifying things I've ever lived through, especially since I allowed my 16 year old self to get swept up in it.

I felt something weird back in the late nineties. saving private ryan and the wash of "good war" nostalgia and... as weird as it sounds Tom Brokaw getting a real short, almost martial haircut. I was in the military and all the professional journals were spinning wildly looking for a new enemy to justify their programs' existence. I felt that it was a powder keg waiting a for a match.

when the Cole was bombed, i thought that would kick it off.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Plutonis posted:

From the voice of the perpretatos themselves

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Anyone else think it's FTW how in the almost 20 years since the supposedly greatest American tragedy we have not once even acted diplomatically against the perpetrators of 9/11

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN
How about when the former NATO commander of Afghanistan / disgraced CIA Chief / Atlantic Council mouthpiece David Petraeus floated that brilliant trial balloon proposal to arm an Al Qaeda affiliate in Syria.

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/pentagon-study-declares-american-empire-is-collapsing-746754cdaebf

quote:

Pentagon study declares American empire is ‘collapsing’
Report demands massive expansion of military-industrial complex to maintain global ‘access to resources’

By Nafeez Ahmed
...

An extraordinary new Pentagon study has concluded that the U.S.-backed international order established after World War 2 is “fraying” and may even be “collapsing”, leading the United States to lose its position of “primacy” in world affairs.

The solution proposed to protect U.S. power in this new “post-primacy” environment is, however, more of the same: more surveillance, more propaganda (“strategic manipulation of perceptions”) and more military expansionism.

The document concludes that the world has entered a fundamentally new phase of transformation in which U.S. power is in decline, international order is unravelling, and the authority of governments everywhere is crumbling.

Having lost its past status of “pre-eminence”, the U.S. now inhabits a dangerous, unpredictable “post-primacy” world, whose defining feature is “resistance to authority”.

Danger comes not just from great power rivals like Russia and China, both portrayed as rapidly growing threats to American interests, but also from the increasing risk of “Arab Spring”-style events. These will erupt not just in the Middle East, but all over the world, potentially undermining trust in incumbent governments for the foreseeable future.

The report, based on a year-long intensive research process involving consultation with key agencies across the Department of Defense and U.S. Army, calls for the U.S. government to invest in more surveillance, better propaganda through “strategic manipulation” of public opinion, and a “wider and more flexible” U.S. military.

The report was published in June by the U.S. Army War College’s Strategic Studies Institute to evaluate the DoD’s approach to risk assessment at all levels of Pentagon policy planning. The study was supported and sponsored by the U.S. Army’s Strategic Plans and Policy Directorate; the Joint Staff, J5 (Strategy and Policy Branch); the Office of the Deputy Secretary of Defense for Strategy and Force Develop­ment; and the Army Study Program Management Office...

quote:

Thus, securing computer networks and cyber lines of communication from the predations of opportunistic opponents remains a critical component of U.S. defense calculations. However, this is essential but also insufficient in the contemporary environment. Indeed, to date, American strategists have focused to the point of distraction on defense against the purposeful interruption or destruction of the United States’ information-focused connective tissue, as well as intrusion into and damage to sensitive information repositories. However, consequently, they have been less focused on the purposeful exploitation of the same architecture for the strategic manipulation of perceptions and its attendant influence on political and security outcomes.18
https://ssi.armywarcollege.edu/pubs/display.cfm?pubID=1358

quote:

The study team suggests there is a single core defense implication of hyperconnectivity—”speed kills.” With hyperconnectivity comes a quantum increase in the velocity of change in strategic circumstances. It raises the specter of sudden, violent, or disruptive political contagions; rapid, unintended military escalation; as well as war prosecuted by alternative—even overtly non-violent—means at increasingly faster processing speeds. Furthermore, it enables virtual mobilization and distributed collective action under no centralized authority or control and at speeds that will outpace 20th-century bureaucracies at every turn.

lmfao

quote:

The study team concluded that the status quo that virtually all U.S. strategy rests on is, in fact, an artifact of a prior era. It lingers precisely because it comports well with the U.S. self-image of a matchless global leader. In reality, it is an increasingly flawed foundation for forward-looking defense strategy and risk assessment under post-primacy conditions.

Basically the conclusion of the study seems to be that the US military is still set up to face a Cold War environment, and if it wants to adequately deal with new 21st century threats - then it needs to get bigger and have more money so it can deal with both conventional and unconventional threats at the same time. The necessity of American hegemony is never in question, and the only solution is to make the military bigger and to do more on the internet I guess.

Agnosticnixie
Jan 6, 2015
Incidentally this year's NDAA is even bigger than the increase Trump wanted. Of course this means more toys that the military will want to take on a ride. And american media has been way, way into ramping up its traditional saber rattling against a few select countries.

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Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010

Has one ever considered a defensive posture

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