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Speaking as kind of a new player, the set also comes off as very approachable. I know I'm going to punt a million times with bad exerts, but things don't make me scratch my head and wonder how I'm supposed to use something.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:22
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Tales of Woe posted:There's only a few commons I wouldn't ever want to put in my deck and the common creatures are strong across the board in interesting ways. They have delivered on their promise of cutting the chaff since the block structure change. It's a far cry from FRF's miserable second half of the pack.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:24
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Siivola posted:Speaking as kind of a new player, the set also comes off as very approachable. I know I'm going to punt a million times with bad exerts, but things don't make me scratch my head and wonder how I'm supposed to use something. The self inflicted -1/-1 counters might lead to some tricky, unintuitive situations.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:26
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Siivola posted:Speaking as kind of a new player, the set also comes off as very approachable. I know I'm going to punt a million times with bad exerts, but things don't make me scratch my head and wonder how I'm supposed to use something. I'm surprised to hear this, actually, I think this set has a LOOOOOOT of juggling of mechanics/cards/options.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:31
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Siivola posted:Speaking as kind of a new player, the set also comes off as very approachable. I know I'm going to punt a million times with bad exerts, but things don't make me scratch my head and wonder how I'm supposed to use something. It seems to have a lot of what Innistrad had going for it, including mechanics that reduce the likelihood of dead turns, three of them in fact, and strong flavor. Rinkles posted:The self inflicted -1/-1 counters might lead to some tricky, unintuitive situations. Possibly, but I don't think it's too bad, I think most players will see early on that CMC X = X/X stats is a decent baseline and that the counters are offsetting oversize creatures. It also follows they ask, "why do that?", and see that other cards can capitalize on it. Even the same card can, in the case of that mana dork. BizarroAzrael fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 17:34
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ShaneB posted:I'm surprised to hear this, actually, I think this set has a LOOOOOOT of juggling of mechanics/cards/options. Yeah I think this set looks above-average difficulty for current magic, especially coming off of Kaladesh which was one of the more simple blocks they've made. It doesn't have the keyword soup of BFZ or the 5-tribe/guild sets though so that probably helps approachability, but I'm reminded of original Innistrad which was a very challenging set despite only having a couple keyword mechanics.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:35
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It helps that the terrible commons/"sideboard cards" they always put in all have cycling now
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Apr 19, 2017 17:35
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Barry Shitpeas posted:It helps that the terrible commons/"sideboard cards" they always put in all have cycling now Which is gonna end up being a trap for a lot of players thinking they can just cycle away like 6 conditional cards in their deck and just spin their wheels.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:40
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ShaneB posted:I'm surprised to hear this, actually, I think this set has a LOOOOOOT of juggling of mechanics/cards/options. True. Why cycling is good and powerful isn't hard to explain in a vacuum, but actually knowing when to is something pros disagree over.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:47
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So I just moved down to Northern VA, whats the best place to go for pre-release around here?
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Apr 19, 2017 17:50
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I know a lot of people have bounced off MM17 draft, either voluntarily or not, but I'm curious what BR is supposed to do as a color group. The theme seems to be sacrifice, but the payoffs just don't seem good. The only token enabler I remember is Dragon Fodder, the payoff is Mortician Beetle, and the sac outlets don't seem to affect the board like even a simple Penumbra Spider. I've only drafted it 3 times, but I have never seen anyone force it successfully, even when it seems open.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:52
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Shadow225 posted:I know a lot of people have bounced off MM17 draft, either voluntarily or not, but I'm curious what BR is supposed to do as a color group. The theme seems to be sacrifice, but the payoffs just don't seem good. The only token enabler I remember is Dragon Fodder, the payoff is Mortician Beetle, and the sac outlets don't seem to affect the board like even a simple Penumbra Spider. I've only drafted it 3 times, but I have never seen anyone force it successfully, even when it seems open. MM3 draft is baaaaad bad bad because like 2 archetypes are playable in power level and the rest are garbage compared.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:53
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Firebatgyro posted:So I just moved down to Northern VA, whats the best place to go for pre-release around here? My brother likes Curio Cavern in Springfield. I play out of Third Eye in Annapolis but that's a hike
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Apr 19, 2017 17:54
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I can't remember if it was one of the previous Magic threads, or even this site for that matter, but I saw an article about some guy that was crazy about bears. I would hazard a guess and say it was a Grizzly Bear. But every card he got we would put it in those hard plastic cases to keep it from harm.
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Apr 19, 2017 17:55
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ShaneB posted:I'm surprised to hear this, actually, I think this set has a LOOOOOOT of juggling of mechanics/cards/options. There's a lot of things you can do and decisions you can really gently caress up ("hey I'll put these -1s on Oketra she's indestructible  ") so I agree there's a bunch of juggling, but I also feel like the mechanics are built from very basic and familiar pieces. Exert's effect is that thing blue does, but this time you can do it voluntarily. Embalm makes a zombie token once. Aftermaths are special sorceries you can cast only from your graveyard. Cycling is just discard to draw. -1/-1 counters are mechanically a wee bit more involved, but the concept (lingering debuff) is very straightforward. And they don't need a lot of setup to play which is great, you just put 'em in your deck and play like normal. You don't have to worry about having discard outlets for Madness or enough creature power to crew a vehicle.
Siivola fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 17:59
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Shadow225 posted:I know a lot of people have bounced off MM17 draft, either voluntarily or not, but I'm curious what BR is supposed to do as a color group. The theme seems to be sacrifice, but the payoffs just don't seem good. The only token enabler I remember is Dragon Fodder, the payoff is Mortician Beetle, and the sac outlets don't seem to affect the board like even a simple Penumbra Spider. I've only drafted it 3 times, but I have never seen anyone force it successfully, even when it seems open. I think BR is supposed to be aggro with unearth and stuff. Maybe use the Aristocrat to end the game when they get low. I drafted a pretty good BW sacrifice deck. Lost to GR because he didn't attack with his goblins for like 4 turns with that enchantment that makes goblin in play, beat some 3 color deck with turn 1 Goblin Guide in game 2, lost to 7 color pile of cards because I played my 2nd land in hand because he had Monentary Blink to kill a token and to kill my Falkenrath Aristocrat. ShaneB posted:MM3 draft is baaaaad bad bad because like 2 archetypes are playable in power level and the rest are garbage compared. Yeah this has pretty much been my impression. I really haven't liked formats where you can just play 4 or 5 colors and a pile of good cards because of how good the fixing is. MM2 and KTK also come to mind.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:03
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Tales of Woe posted:There's only a few commons I wouldn't ever want to put in my deck and the common creatures are strong across the board in interesting ways. "We need bad cards to distinguish the good cards" is a dumb design philosophy and I'm glad that this set appears to not be packing boosters with 6-7 unplayable commons. Sealed looks pretty fun and I'm looking forward to prerelease.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:06
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With the PW decks, they can print the bad cards right into unsuspecting newbies' hands. 
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Apr 19, 2017 18:08
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Dehtraen posted:- not knowing what the creatures on the battlefield do. Read all the keywords and know what they mean / do on your opponents cards and yours. This sounds completely dumb but every prerelease people end not blocking something because they assume it has flying due to the art or miss things like first strike and get blown out in blocks Breaching Hippocamp limited all star
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Apr 19, 2017 18:10
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Shadow225 posted:I know a lot of people have bounced off MM17 draft, either voluntarily or not, but I'm curious what BR is supposed to do as a color group. The theme seems to be sacrifice, but the payoffs just don't seem good. The only token enabler I remember is Dragon Fodder, the payoff is Mortician Beetle, and the sac outlets don't seem to affect the board like even a simple Penumbra Spider. I've only drafted it 3 times, but I have never seen anyone force it successfully, even when it seems open. I got my rear end beat by a BRu Sac deck in our MM17 release draft. Unearth guys, Vampire Aristocrat, the red creature that lets you sac creatures to Shock stuff, etc. From what I could tell the blue splash was for Soul Ransom, which is disgusting in that deck if you catch your opponent not paying attention. I disagree somewhat with ShaneB on this, I had a lot of fun drafting MM17 but I suck at draft and don't want to pay $30 when I'm 90% sure to go 1-2. I will agree however that UWx, even just straight UW, is where you want to be. Saw a guy on Esper come back to win from a 44-1 deficit off of two Grixis Slavedriver each with Gift of Orzhova.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:10
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Shadow225 posted:I know a lot of people have bounced off MM17 draft, either voluntarily or not, but I'm curious what BR is supposed to do as a color group. The theme seems to be sacrifice, but the payoffs just don't seem good. The only token enabler I remember is Dragon Fodder, the payoff is Mortician Beetle, and the sac outlets don't seem to affect the board like even a simple Penumbra Spider. I've only drafted it 3 times, but I have never seen anyone force it successfully, even when it seems open. Every masters set has a handful of extremely awful archetypes. In MM3 the point of BR is splashing for removal cards and dinrova horrors. Has there ever been a sacrifice archetype that actually worked? I remember it being awful in origins and BFZ as well.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:23
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My experience with MM17 was that BR sacrifice was one of the 3 playable archetypes, though slightly lower in power level than goodstuff control and UWx blink. The green decks were the truly unplayable ones.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:44
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Most of the complexity in Amonkhet seems to come from knowing how best to use the cards, which is different from the mechanics themselves being difficult to understand.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:47
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little munchkin posted:Has there ever been a sacrifice archetype that actually worked? I remember it being awful in origins and BFZ as well. It worked in Origins sometimes. Not the most reliable deck ever, but occasionally you'd pick up a critical mass of enthralling victors, acts of treason, and nantuko husks, etc to beat the hell out of your opponent with their guys and then put them back in their yard. I remember someone at the PT got there, and I did it once or twice at FNM.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:52
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Magic Story summary: Jace and Liliana were loving and Gideon complained about it (because he was too dense to figure out why Jace was at Lili's house early in the morning) so they had to stop. Gideon might as well put on a goddamn fedora at this point; dude is not only friend-zoned as gently caress, but he's a cockblocker.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:54
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I am really happy that this abortion of a story drives how cards are designed.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:56
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little munchkin posted:Has there ever been a sacrifice archetype that actually worked? I remember it being awful in origins and BFZ as well. WB human sacrifice in DKA-ISD-ISD was good
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Apr 19, 2017 18:58
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Tales of Woe posted:Yeah I think this set looks above-average difficulty for current magic, especially coming off of Kaladesh which was one of the more simple blocks they've made. It doesn't have the keyword soup of BFZ or the 5-tribe/guild sets though so that probably helps approachability, but I'm reminded of original Innistrad which was a very challenging set despite only having a couple keyword mechanics.
It might be that I wasn't around to really learn Kaladesh, but it feels like lots of cards do similar synergistic things slightly differently, whereas Amonkhet's mechanics are much stricter pigeonholes that are easier to use and understand.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:59
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I drafted jund sacrifice several times and thought it was fine. Rotwurm is a big dude with a relevant ability, thrinax is all that jund value, and fists of ironwood can get you though blockers.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:59
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The story of today was quite good. Everything in Amokhet is creepy as gently caress (the only one that is currently enjoying the place is Gideon, and we know that he WILL change his mind) and I quite enjoyed the Liliana-Jace dynamics and how they flavoured the Amonkhet necromancy.
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Apr 19, 2017 19:07
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Death Bot posted:Breaching Hippocamp limited all star At the Mirrodin Beseiged prerelease, I ran into a Viridian Emissary in one of the games and commented on how insane the card was. Turns out it's a lot worse once you know that it doesn't have infect
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Apr 19, 2017 19:10
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Angry Grimace posted:Magic Story summary: Except that Gideon pretty explicitly knew that they were loving and also that's definitely not what happened in the story?
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Apr 19, 2017 19:10
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ShaneB posted:I'm surprised to hear this, actually, I think this set has a LOOOOOOT of juggling of mechanics/cards/options. My initial impression is that it's pretty easy to make the cards do what they're supposed to do, but you have a lot of choice of when and if to do that. Like, you don't need enablers or fancy sequencing to cycle a card, but whether to do so or not can often be non-obvious and impactful.
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Apr 19, 2017 19:12
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Sickening posted:I am really happy that this abortion of a story drives how cards are designed. Actually, the story is relatively good this week. It's written competently and without a bunch of bullshit like Chandra's inner-monologues. Magic Story - Servants * Liliana is doing her best Tasigur impression, relaxing with mummies serving her food (she later admits the serving mummies are creepy) * She's uncomfortable with zombies following her command without having to use necromancy. Ever since they got into the city, she hasn't dared use necromancy, assuming it could cause a dangerous reaction. She instead sent out shades to search for information about Razaketh, one of the demons she formed a contract with. * Raven Man appears (he apparently does a lot). Liliana continues to wonder if he's just a figment of her imagination. He taunts her about her new friends and how she isn't actually doing anything about Razaketh. He tells her that she should be manipulating the Gatewatch into killing Razaketh, but she makes some kind of excuse to sound like she's manipulating them (when she probably isn't). * He claims he protected her mind from Emrakul and took control of the Chain Veil to save her when a wurm ate her in the first Amonkhet story. This surprises her. * Jace approaches and Raven Man disappears. Jace and Liliana talk about the mummies, and how they need more information. Liliana notes that every mummy is maimed in some way and that all of them died violently. * One of Liliana's shades appears with information. It leads them to a building with carvings depicting Razaketh. They go inside and see mummies drag some newly dead initiates inside and follow them. There is basically an assembly line of mummification, with organs stored in unmarked communal jars and bodies set on racks. There is nothing religious about this, it's purely practical. * Some bodies start moving before the process is complete. Cartouches are placed to keep them under control. * They see more carvings, explaining that there is a final trial before Bolas opens the gate to the afterlife: Razaketh will be behind it, purging the unworthy who remain. Razaketh, through the carvings, detects Liliana. He tries to evoke her contract, but the Chain Veil protects her, so the mummies attack them instead. * She tries to use necromancy to control the zombies, but the cartouches stop her. They pull one off a mummy, but the mummy disintegrates. * The mummies stop when Temmet approaches. He talked with Kefnet's viziers and confirmed the Gatewatch have no birth record. He angrily confronts them, and says some poo poo about how great the "Horned One" is, and Liliana mentions she met him and that he's an rear end in a top hat. * Jace mind controls Temmet , but he's controlling the zombies, so Jace can't erase his memory, but has him command the mummies to let them go. They run away; but they have to mobilize the GW because Temmet will eventually wake up and alert the locals. Sampatrick posted:Except that Gideon pretty explicitly knew that they were loving and also that's definitely not what happened in the story? Dude, its Gideon, he probably doesn't even know what that is. All it says is "[i]t had happened, a time or three, at her private residence on Ravnica after she joined the Gatewatch. Then Gideon had remarked acidly at some strategy meeting about being unable to find Jace in the early hours of the morning, and that had been the quiet, unremarked-upon end of the thing."
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Apr 19, 2017 19:12
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Question: is Liliana a cougar or a cradle robber?
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Apr 19, 2017 19:14
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Angry Grimace posted:Actually, the story is relatively good this week. It's written competently and without a bunch of bullshit like Chandra's inner-monologues. The first section is literally just a description of the art from new Liliana, though
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Apr 19, 2017 19:17
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Liliana posted:She swallowed the grape, seeds and all of course—spitting was so undignified.
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Apr 19, 2017 19:18
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little munchkin posted:Every masters set has a handful of extremely awful archetypes. In MM3 the point of BR is splashing for removal cards and dinrova horrors. Golgari decks in Ravnica classic had a healthy amount of sacrifice. Dredge plus the old combat rules made it much more potent back then. Rakdos did too but it was in the third set and you saw few of them. I think there was a RB sacrifice theme hinging on Furnace Celebration in Scars of Mirrodin but I don't know if it was a viable option. Also black in Avacyn Restored hahaha I can't even finish that sentence. RB (well, FS) in Eternal has a strong sacrifice theme if you want to see it done well. Lots of tokens, sacrifice payoffs, dies triggers, and some graveyard recursion.
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Apr 19, 2017 19:20
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Barry Shitpeas posted:The first section is literally just a description of the art from new Liliana, though Yup. more or less 8 sentences.
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Apr 19, 2017 19:19
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Yeah the story this week was OK.
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