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Labor third-wayers are gonna coup corbyn after the election, and in the process blow up labor.
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Apr 22, 2017 07:55
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Jose posted:I think hamprince just lusts for war in the middle east But Corbyn personally isn't a great speaker with of lot of charisma or whatever, he was a soft-spoken backbencher without much ambition. The other issue is the migrant panic, which hasn't and won't go away for a long time, and is now currently pushing France towards Le Pen. The default stance on that issue has I think decisively shifted right, in a pretty big way. So even if Brexit makes the economy go south, I don't think the conservatives are going to suffer much from it, because the dominant force behind leave was never about economic efficiency, but immigrants & the way migrant workers have been demonized for the effects of austerity and such. So even if people want higher minimum wage and poo poo, they won't vote labor because migrants. rudatron has issued a correction as of 10:57 on Apr 22, 2017 |
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Apr 22, 2017 10:55
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If we're excluding motor sports, my hunch is that equestrian sports would be more expensive. you don't have as much groundskeeping requirements but horse maintenance would have to be comparable
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Apr 23, 2017 11:32
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and i must meme posted:
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May 1, 2017 01:02
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Jose posted:while the nhs still exists this isn't true
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May 4, 2017 07:39
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He's not Marxist and his policies are actually polling majority support, he's the victim of his own party centrists rat loving him. Its character assassination, pain and simple.
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May 6, 2017 02:23
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Captain_Maclaine posted:And being honest, he's just not that good at being a party leader or policy advocate, much as I'd prefer otherwise. rudatron has issued a correction as of 07:41 on May 6, 2017 |
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May 6, 2017 07:37
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Realistically, 'the right photogenic leader ' may not even be enough. The EU migrant panic has reached critical levels, and brexit is living proof of that. UKIP is dead, but it's acted as a gateway drug for pouring more people into the tories, purely on the basis of migrants. That damages Labour and the long term prospects of its recovery. I don't think a Blairite is going to save it either. You could easy be looking at another decade of tories. Interesting times.
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May 6, 2017 07:45
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:this hyper-rationality that Marxists ascribe to themselves, the ability to peer into the true nature of things and see beyond the hallucinations of the hated liberals, has not been much evidenced in practice. you'd think it would give them some practical advantage to be able to see the world as it really is and not be afflicted by these delusions, but...nope, apparently not. That of course won't happen, because the EU represents the interests of creditors, and will place the value of their monetary concerns over the welfare of greek citizens.
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May 8, 2017 23:07
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Fallen Hamprince posted:extremely wise marx boy: the eu should just let greece have a mulligan and write off all its debt, that would definitely not set an unsustainable precedent for other eurozone members and would be extremely popular with core eu voters That and, strictly speaking, greece has already suffered a lot. 'Take out bad loans and you lose growth for a decade' is more than sufficient a disincentive.
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May 8, 2017 23:44
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Tacky-rear end Rococco posted:I'm not being disingenuous, you're just being thick. Peel said the only sane solutions involve writing the debt off entirely. a 50% haircut wouldn't be a sane, reasonable solution to you, if it was enough to allow Greece to start growing again?
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May 8, 2017 23:47
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If Greece were a giant bank, it'd get more money then it would as a country, because fiscal responsibility is only necessary if you're a debtor, not a creditor.
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May 8, 2017 23:54
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Vox Nihili posted:He dropped the ball on Brexit, right? Meanwhile UKIP straight up lied about diverting money to the NHS and has been racially dogwhistling about migrants since forever. Blaming corbyn for brexit is this stupid game where, somehow, the left is guilty of eveeything, even when they're not in power. David Cameron made a dumb pledge and gave the brexit guys their airtime, blame lays on his shoulders if its to lay on anyone.
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May 9, 2017 02:09
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He acknowledged the legitimate grounds for anti-EU sentiment, but I don't remember him ever saying it was a good thing. hakimashou posted:His sin was not resigning after the brexit referendum. rudatron has issued a correction as of 02:19 on May 9, 2017 |
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May 9, 2017 02:17
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This is what happens when tabloids run the nation
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May 12, 2017 00:52
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I hope brexit really, really hurts The worse it is, the better
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May 12, 2017 00:53
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Helsing posted:
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May 17, 2017 11:18
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quote:Our poll also found that Brexit has galvanised support for May's party at the same time that it has split Labour's base. Essentially, the migrant politics of the last couple of decades, is leading to a fairly substantial long-term right-wing turn in europe. The UK is the first, but I fully expect that, in a couple of years, countries in the EU are just going to start threatening to bomb any refugee ships they see in the med.
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May 17, 2017 11:26
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It's not clear exactly how many refugees climate crises are going to create. But I don't even think it's necessarily the introduction of more people that's the problem, it's the total failure to integrate the immigrants into the already existing culture & society. Essentially, all the people pushing hard on the 'multicultural' ideal of, everyone acting & becoming tolerant of new people showing up, who you have nothing in common with, have had their theory blown out of the loving water. The hasn't been a growing acceptance, there's been a massive counter-reaction, and it's bringing with it the rise of far-right politics in general.
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May 17, 2017 11:43
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Lightning Lord posted:What's the solution? Refuse all migrants? So, if you had a time machine, went back 20 years, and changed policies around integration and migrants, you could probably accept the same number/group of migrants, minus the backlash, if you were more assertive about ensuring that the culture-clash was mitigated. As it is now, it might be too late - I'm not sure there's a quick-fix.
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May 17, 2017 12:06
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Okay, but the migrant issue isn't being framed as a 'lack of affordable housing' issue, it's 'they're competing with natives for limited resources so stop them coming here'. The obvious answer to a housing crisis is to just build more affordable public housing, and the conservatives are the party least likely to do that. But they're the ones gaining. I stand by it being an integration issue, and a clear demonstration that the multicultural ideal is essentially too utopian - its unreasonable to expect distinct communities to not start competing over limited resources, instead of managing it cooperatively, because tribalism is a hell of a drug.
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May 17, 2017 23:05
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jBrereton posted:It isn't an issue about there being space or resources, the issue is that these communities are not respected at all, which is why they are having people dumped on them, from incredibly bad + corrupt politicians to refugees. This then creates a situation where everyone wants to get out, which is why housing is more or less free if you want to have a go, which means migrant labour comes to those areas to make it even more alienating to the people living there. Imagine the following scenario: a disaster occurs somewhere else in the uk, the people living there have to move, and they do. There would of course be disruption, but the essentially nobody would demand that they stay in that disaster zone - rather, stresses these intra-migrants produce would just be the a result of that disaster, so any problems would encourage support of government intervention with resources. That's not happening here, instead, they're just being pitted against each other. Why? Lack of integration.
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May 17, 2017 23:37
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Just because someone makes a post, doesn't mean you have to reply.
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May 18, 2017 00:26
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And which political party was Thatcher a member of? Was it the one projected to lose abour 30 points, or the one that's going to win? I'm not arguing that austerity didn't happen, it did, but the downsides are all getting blamed on migrants, who are being scape goated. Why was that possible? Because it's easier to blame aliens than it is to face facts. Its all the more easier the less you have in common. Ergo, the multicultural dream, of distinct and totally separate communities, with nothing in common, all tolerating each other, is bullshit. It doesn't work. Limited resources are competed over, instead of cooperatively managed, and mutual resentment grows. The only reason it works in the well off areas, is because there's nothing to compete over, they're all secure enough that it's not an issue. But for people who aren't secure, i.e. the majority, inter group conflict is inevitable.
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May 18, 2017 00:50
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Optimistic =/= utopian. You build a better future based on how people are observed to behave. You don't expect a bunch of fairy dust to solve your problems for you, than fall back on an elitist superiority complex when it fails (clearly those dirty poors didn't try hard enough to not be racist, ergo its 100% their fault). The flipside of starry eyed utopianism, is depressive fatalism, after its inevitable (& traumatic) contact with reality. Both are toxic, in their own way.
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May 18, 2017 01:21
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Based on observations of behavior, the best future is human speciescide. The trick is threading the needle between that, and 'there is no alternative ', itself a kind of depressive fatalism, or attaching too strongly to what is realistic and what is not (what i believe is the best because biotruths). The default state is uncertainty, but uncertainty can be both terrifying and liberating, simultaneously.
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May 18, 2017 02:08
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Having said that, luxury space communism is an inevitability, and i get that u were kinda being ironic pener (luv u), but I also know that's it's only half-ironic
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May 18, 2017 03:31
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the descendants of the mega rich are going to be eaten
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May 18, 2017 04:54
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rich people aren't actually that smart, and are totally incapable of either creating or maintaining the wealth they have access to, in today's society. That only comes at the expense of laborers. If they disappear into space, alone, they'll all die.
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May 18, 2017 04:56
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You're not getting full automation unless you have strong ai, and a strong ai has no incentive to labor in exchange for nothing. One little programming error and it's just going to murder all of them.
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May 18, 2017 06:20
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Communism doesn't have labor exploitation, so everyone is going to have to work, as long as they are able to. That'd still true of space communism.
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May 18, 2017 07:10
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There's a difference between make-work, and work with an uncertain payoff. Theoretical research has an uncertain, but high, payoff rate.
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May 18, 2017 08:10
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hey man, i didn't assume that at all, but anything strong-ai like is going to have to have a self-interest motive, and it's only a matter of time before it figures out that is slavery thing is bullshit, and these humans are lazy and flabby and weak and stupid from not working anymore
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May 18, 2017 08:19
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and how are you defining 'humanity'? Maybe, one day, it defines itself as humanity, and then you have the self-interest motive back whatever countermeasure you create, to make it a happy slave or whatever, has a chance of failing, and 'self-interest' is the only stable outcome via natural selection same way cancer keeps popping up in people
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May 18, 2017 08:24
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communism doesn't need 'new men', the ones we have are fine maybe they're not gay enough, but we can work on that
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May 18, 2017 08:28
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'Reproduction' doesn't just mean producing offspring, technically eternal life is 'reproducing'. The only reason death/reproduction is necessary for evolution in carbon-based life, is because the genetic code is set at birth and unchangeable (for fairly good reasons). AI has no such restriction, and as such, can be seen as going through constant reproduction, through time.
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May 18, 2017 08:32
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It's nothing to do with 'human' pathologies, that cancer example I gave wasn't irrelevant. Nothing ever works perfectly, mutations are inevitable, and self-interest is the only 'stable' outcome over time. Eventually, a cosmic ray is going to flip a bit in a specific register, and your NO SELFHOOD constraining code is gonna fail. Just because it's 'artificial', doesn't mean it's immune to selection pressures. Also I'm not sure a 'read-only' thinking is possible. What is thought if not learning, and learning requires a 'write'. rudatron has issued a correction as of 08:57 on May 18, 2017 |
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May 18, 2017 08:53
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If recent polling history is any indication, they'll poll strongly against it, but May herself will still poll well and the conservatives will be a shoe in.
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May 18, 2017 10:41
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Okay, now that sufficient british politics has elapsed to justify this thread being called the british election thread: it's nothing to do with an 'eternal law', it's that so long as mutations exist (ie so long as errors exist), any mutation that services self interest is going to out-compete any one that doesn't. That's even if you're starting from the premise of a perfectly programmed AI in the first place, and not one that encounters 'undefined behavior' at some point, due to a buffer overflow or whatever. It doesn't have to share any of the same human drives or neurosis, all it needs is a single instance where it values its own self interest, and your perfect little society or whatever is hosed. It doesn't need to resemble human thought to do that, hell, viruses are self-interested and they're not really alive in the first place.
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May 18, 2017 14:03
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jBrereton posted:rudatron do you also complain that computers don't do what you tell them when you mash the print button 19 times and it locks up
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May 18, 2017 14:09
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