Backpacking/Camping Gear: I've thrown my baby into the water in various orientations

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > The Great Outdoors > Backpacking/Camping Gear: I've thrown my baby into the water in various orientations

Dukket: Apr 28, 2007; So I says to her, I says “LADY, that ain't OIL, its DIRT!!”

Pennywise the Frown posted:

I'm one of those retards who buys tons of gear but never uses it because I never do anything. Like, ever. I always want to go backpacking but I missed some opportunities when I lived by Seattle (just did day hikes) and now I'm back in Wisconsin which I'm not so happy about. In fact, I've never been backpacking despite have a pack that is used to put on my back. I've always just done car camping. None of my friends here have time to go on a trip, nor are they active enough to want to or anything, and I'm determined to get out this year so I guess I'm going to have to go solo.

I know I'm reaching back on this one, but depending on where you and how far you want to go - Someone mention the Ice Age Trail, but there is also the North Country Trail, Chequamegon-Nicolet National Forest and more. Pop up to Superior National Forest in MN. In the UP Pictured Rocks and the Porkies. Its more involved to make it happen, but Isle Royal once you gone on a few trips.

If you want to find someone to hike with check out the Ice Age Trail volunteer chapters, you are more or less guaranteed to live near one since its a 1000 mile trail wholly located in WI. If you live further north or don't mind the drive check out some of the North Country Trail groups.

For thread relevant chat: Do silk bag liners help much with temp? I'm naturally pretty greasy so it would be good for my bag, but would also like it if my bag was a bit warmer ( and didn't have to buy a new bag).

# ¿ Jun 12, 2017 20:41

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 12:00

Dukket: Apr 28, 2007; So I says to her, I says “LADY, that ain't OIL, its DIRT!!”

Picnic Princess posted:

I remember asking this a little while back elsewhere when I was planning on doing a bit of winter camping and wilderness survival and was worried I'd freeze. I think the consensus was: a little bit but not significant.

Thats more or less what i figured the answer was.

I assume by your phrasing that you either didn't get one or haven't had a chance to try it out?

# ¿ Jun 12, 2017 21:57

Dukket: Apr 28, 2007; So I says to her, I says “LADY, that ain't OIL, its DIRT!!”

[quote="ASSTASTIC" post="473323984"]
Silk liners help a little with warmth and help with keeping your bag clean from your body. I would say it raises a certain temp rating of your bag, by a certain amount, but will help. One thing to consider is your sleeping pad situation if you are looking for warmth. You lose a huge percentage of your body heat from the ground alone as the ground acts like a heat sink. Consider your environment and where/how you are sleeping and put the sleeping pad into the equation.

--------------------------

Bag and Pad I've got covered. Ultimately I think I should have gone with a different bag, but thats another story. Neoair xlite for sleeping pad and my only complaint is how load it is.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2017 00:03

Dukket: Apr 28, 2007; So I says to her, I says “LADY, that ain't OIL, its DIRT!!”

ASSTASTIC posted:

Ah, so were you only looking to see if the liner will keep your bag less greasy?

No, sorry - just curious if anyone found them to a noticeably help with temps - A few of them claim as much as 5 or more degrees. The reviews I've seen have been

"yeah, it helped a little I guess",

"Its petty nice, helps some in the fall/spring and I can use it as my summer bag"

"it made no difference whatsoever!!!!! thoselyingbastards!"

I can't really handle heat/my job is busiest in the spring/summer so we do most of our camping in the fall for the last few years. We're in the midwest, so mostly MI, MN, WI, IL, IN, but we go further a field sometimes. A few times we've had some 30ish degree nights and I'm sure we'll have more - I wasn't as warm as I'd like.

I think I'm going to get one anyway to keep my bag clean, but if I could get a few more degrees as well that would be icing on the cake. The other options are wear more close to bed, always have a warm bottle at the foot of my bag, sometimes I get lazy about that.

I generally shove extra stuff to the foot of my bag.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2017 00:53

Dukket: Apr 28, 2007; So I says to her, I says “LADY, that ain't OIL, its DIRT!!”

Morbus posted:

A bag liner offers barely any insulation and won't help you sleep much warmer. If you have drafts a liner can mitigate them..but just sorting things so you don't have drafts will help a lot more. If your bag has a more or less appropriate temperature rating, I think your pad might be the culprit. A neoair xlite is probably not be enough to keep you comfortable at 30F. It has an r-value of around 3.

Things vary a lot depending on your sleeping metabolism, personal comfort threshold, presence of any drafts, etc., but in general a person with a 98.6 F core temperature in a ~32F environment needs a total r-value of around 6 to be thermally neutral. This is including clothes, etc. Note that high loft compressible insulation like your sleeping bag and a puffy jacket don't contribute that much to your effective body-to-ground r-value since they insulate much less when compressed. This plot is a decent rough guide (for reference 1 r-value is approx 1.13 clo):

I think a good rule of thumb for comfortable sleeping in near freezing temperatures is to have a pad r value of at least 4-5. Less than this it's more or less inevitable that your core temperature will drop a bit below normal, which may or may not be comfortable to you. Personally I had a lot of cold nights in the 20-30 degree range until I switched from a 2.8 pad to a 5.6 pad. I would say it has to get to around -10F before I get as cold as I used to at +30F.

Maybe try the xtherm instead of the xlite? It's only slightly heavier, packs down about the same, is significantly warmer, and is less loud too.

Thanks for the responses.

I did a lot of research, but possibly not enough. I think I may not have placed enough weight on the R value, though the xlite was a big step up from my last one. My main consideration when picking out the xlite was comfort (I'm a side sleeper). I'll have to think about this, and do a bit more reading, my current sleep system is basically brand new - Two weeks in Yellowstone last fall.

Out of curiosity, what is your 5.6 pad?

# ¿ Jun 13, 2017 19:33

Dukket: Apr 28, 2007; So I says to her, I says “LADY, that ain't OIL, its DIRT!!”

forkbucket posted:

The plastic bag thing was more of a "so you wanna sit around camp and your shoes are still wet, but you have your dry socks on" type of tip if I understood it correctly. gently caress walking around with plastic bags on my feet forever.

I know they weigh more than a plastic bag, but we bought crocs for camp shoes and water crossing.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2017 20:42

Dukket: Apr 28, 2007; So I says to her, I says “LADY, that ain't OIL, its DIRT!!”

Are there snowshoe manufactures to stay away from? OR conversely, is there a short list of "only buy" They'll be used in the Great Lakes states, so flat to hilly. Probably just days hikes. If the various sizing charts are correct then I need 30's

I've used some Redfeather and...Tubbs, I think. Both rented

EDIT: I didn't care for the Tubbs as much, but I think there were some issues with the bindings so I'm not sure I got a good feel for them.

Dukket fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Feb 10, 2018

# ¿ Feb 10, 2018 20:02

Dukket: Apr 28, 2007; So I says to her, I says “LADY, that ain't OIL, its DIRT!!”

Thank you for the responses. This article seems to discuss the differences in snow between west and mid west. He seems to use Northern Lites Backcountry model. My experience so far has been on fairly fresh and still falling fluffy snow (probably a total of 6 to 8 inches) on wooded trails and some steep dunes.
I�m leaning toward Crescent Moon as a starter pair, but undecided still.

It always takes me to 20 min to figure out the tags, cuz I'm dumb.

https://www.snowshoemag.com/2013/01/14/snowshoeing-education-304-shoeing-in-the-midwest-a-little-different-then-east-or-west

I got gaiters a while back, they seemed nice to have for winter or dewy morning hikes. Those may be the same one I bought, not sure.

I�ve been a bit surprised to not see more Canadian companies. There must be 5,000 Canadian canoe makers, I assumed there would be gobs of snowshoe companies as well.

# ¿ Feb 13, 2018 01:23

Dukket: Apr 28, 2007; So I says to her, I says “LADY, that ain't OIL, its DIRT!!”

Does anyone have an opinion on the Granite Gear Crown/2 series vs Gregory Optic series?

I currently have a old (15+ years) Osprey and its time to move on. I'd like to try an "ultra lite" pack, but don't want to spend the ultra lite prices. We have trip to Isle Royal coming up in a few weeks so its time for me to take care of this.

I'm open to other options, but I've read good things about both of these.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2018 18:25

Dukket: Apr 28, 2007; So I says to her, I says “LADY, that ain't OIL, its DIRT!!”

Morbus posted:

Pack fit varies widely from person to person and is probably both the most important and most neglected factor when deciding on a pack, so it's probably best to try as many as possible within your specifications. That said, pack fit becomes a lot more forgiving if your total pack weight is very low.

On that note, the two models you mention span ~2.0-2.5 lbs and cost ~200 bucks, and there are a *lot* of packs in that range of weight and price, including some that are both lighter and cheaper if those are the two metrics that matter most to you. For example the ULA equipment CDT is only 1 lb 8 oz and costs ~150 bucks or less, but its completely frameless and would not work well for loads much above 15 lbs...

Apart from how well the pack fits, there are a lot of considerations like how long of a trip do you need to support (i.e. do you need to fit a giant bear can), are you doing mostly on trail hiking or also other things, how important or unimportant are external attachment features and what kind, how much stuff you will be carrying both in terms of weight and volume...Things like this may rule out certain packs or make others better or worse options.

"probably both the most important and most neglected factor when deciding on a pack" - I buy that

This particular trip will be eight nights, our longest trip so far by several days

So far none of our trips have required a bear can, but our dreams seem to be further west and north.

With food and water I think I'll be around 25lbs, probably closer to 30.

I have not needed any external lashing so far...

I decided on $200ish, not really sure where I got that number, but I really start to cringe above that. This may change in the future, but its where I'm at atm.

The Ospry I have now was a handmedown and feels pretty good, but all other Ospreys I've tried on just haven't been comfortable.

On the granite Gear sizing chart I have the top of the Med and Low end of Long

# ¿ Aug 2, 2018 05:05

Dukket: Apr 28, 2007; So I says to her, I says “LADY, that ain't OIL, its DIRT!!”

Morbus posted:

Ah, for an 8 night trip and up to 30 lbs weight you probably want to avoid any of the totally frameless designs like the ULA CDT I mentioned, unless you plan on improvising your own framesheet. Even packs like the crown 2, which have a plastic framesheet but not a carbon or aluminum frame, *may* become less than ideal around 30 lbs. That being said, fit really is the most important thing when it comes to carrying comfort...I have a pack that is basically a ripstop nylon trashcan with only a thin plastic framesheet, a strip of webbing for a hip belt and barely padded shoulder straps, and that pack carries a 40 lbs load more comfortably than my aluminum framed Exos 58 simply because the fit of the hip belt, shoulder straps, and pack against my back are all better. If possible, buying a few packs from somewhere with a decent return policy, trying them, and returning the ones you don't keep is a good option. If you're in the middle of the torso length sizing, best bet is just try both. Some people say if you're in the middle it's better to go with the smaller, some people say go bigger...nobody knows and it all depends. And anyway there are lots of ways a pack can fit poorly even if the torso length is correct.

For a pack with a framesheet similar to the the Crown2, the Gossamer Gear Mariposa is another popular option that weighs 2 lbs for 60L and is ~225$ now.

For packs that weigh around 2lbs, with a frame, apart from the Gregory Optic (which you mentioned) and the Osprey Exos (which apparently may not fit you well), the ULA Ohm2 and Circuit are other similar options. Again, I'm not really sold on frames being necessarily better than simple framesheets for carrying loads in the 30 lbs range, but the general wisdom (at least among backpackers...) is that the rigid framed packs are a bit better once you go above 25-30 lbs or so.

One last thing to consider is volume. Depending on your other gear, ~40L might be pushing it if you ever need to carry a large bear canister inside the pack, though it should be OK if you pack carefully and have low volume gear.

For much above $200, you are generally paying for relatively modest (~10 oz) weight reductions, which IMO don't matter if you're hauling around 20-30 lbs. But for your shorter trips it might be nice, I dunno.

This may be a bit disjointed

**Correction - current pack is a Lowe Alpine Contour IV, not an Osprey** Its a heavy pack

Things may change, but under the assumption that I only want one pack at a time, at this basic price point and am not interested in constant buying and selling of gear. I recognize that is won't be my last pack.

Despite my pack being old, I've been on fewer than a dozen bping trips - Yellowstone, a few places in MI and WI - so I'm still replacing some of the intro and handmedown gear aaannnnd I'm gear neurotic. Add to that a certain amount of choice paralysis, there are just so many packs out there.

Oh yeah, I ruled out frameless for sure. My hope is that this pack is my first and probably biggest step toward a meaningfully lighter load. I'm pretty sure I'll never get down to UL, but lighter would be nice. Cost/weight/durability - At sub three lbs I just can't see adding a 1/3 of the cost for less than a lb of weight savings and probably reduced durability.

I had looked the Gossamer Gear Mariposa - its $225, until you add the hipbelt then its 270, seems like a slippery slope to me.

I was skeptical of the the frame sheet idea at first, in vids the look really flimsy, but it doesn't seem like its just ULers who like them.

I assume I need 55+ L pack

I need to make time to get down to REI and just try packs on (again). The last time I went I liked Deuter, didn't like Osprey, don't remember beyond that.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2018 16:05

Dukket: Apr 28, 2007; So I says to her, I says “LADY, that ain't OIL, its DIRT!!”

Morbus posted:

Lmao i didn't realize the Mariposa was like 40 bucks extra for the luxury of a hipbelt. Takes some balls to charge as much as a daypack for what amounts to some webbing with padding and a pouch.

I'd say try out the Exos, Optic, Crown 2 and Ohm 2.0 if you can and just go with whatever fits best.

And yeah it's definitely not just UL backpackers who use packs with framesheets. A lot of mountaineering packs forgo rigid frames for foam or plastic framesheets, and no matter how light the rest of your gear is adding in ice tools, crampons, climbing gear, a shovel, avalanche equipment, winter shelter & clothing and perhaps snowshoes/skis means those loads are necessarily much heavier than the "ultralight" cutoff where rigid frames are conventionally considered optimal. Those packs remove rigid frames mainly as a compromise between load carrying ability vs. not restricting movement, not because such a design is better for carrying heavier loads...but if people are carrying 60 lbs of poo poo up Denali with only folded foam bivy pads as "framesheets" it's hard to ague that you are going to injure yourself and be miserable backpacking with a 25lb load if you don't have the latest and greatest space age frame and ~*~active suspension~*~.

Yeah, that was my thought exactly on the hip belt, but there you go.

My plan is to get down to REI today to see what I can see. I've left this a bit to the last min, but such is life. I still have time to get some practice walks in for a proper feel of the fit.

I just can't express enough how much I'm looking forward to this trip, I've been wanting to do this trip for many years.

Thanks for your thoughts.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2018 15:36

Dukket: Apr 28, 2007; So I says to her, I says “LADY, that ain't OIL, its DIRT!!”

What do folks here do about their legs while backing packing in the rain in mid to low 60's. I run very hot so I'm really hesitant to wear rain pants. I thought about getting a rain kilt or ditching my rain jacket and getting a poncho.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2018 13:18

Dukket: Apr 28, 2007; So I says to her, I says “LADY, that ain't OIL, its DIRT!!”

anatomi posted:

My engine also runs hot. At those temps I usually just wear shorts, but sometimes I'll supplement with merino or bamboo underpants. If you're expecting continual rain I think a poncho is a good idea, if you can find one with decent ventilation.

Yeah, it not cold, I guess it's a bit of a dumb question.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2018 14:44

Dukket: Apr 28, 2007; So I says to her, I says “LADY, that ain't OIL, its DIRT!!”

Dukket posted:

Does anyone have an opinion on the Granite Gear Crown/2 series vs Gregory Optic series?

I currently have a old (15+ years) Osprey and its time to move on. I'd like to try an "ultra lite" pack, but don't want to spend the ultra lite prices. We have trip to Isle Royal coming up in a few weeks so its time for me to take care of this.

I'm open to other options, but I've read good things about both of these.

If anyone cares

I tried
Granite Gear Crown2 regular and large
Gregory Optic. Med and large
Sierra design Flex Capacitor

I dont seem to have the vocabulary for the descriptions so...

The Gregory's just didn't fit right, though the large felt better. I just could not get the weight off my shoulders.

Crown2, the large fit better and it generally felt pretty good. I think could be perfectly happy with it. Seems like it sits lower, which with a sleeping bag at the bottom probably wouldn't matter as much.

The Flex felt more...natural? Better centered?
I was able to fit more weight bags (5more lbs) into the flex and it still felt better than the others. There are some feature compromises, but we'll see how it goes. I'm going to load it up with my gear go on some walks around town

# ¿ Aug 8, 2018 18:30

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 12:00

Dukket: Apr 28, 2007; So I says to her, I says “LADY, that ain't OIL, its DIRT!!”

We made our own dehydrated meals for our last couple of trips. It was fun, and saved some $, but its a bit of a time sink.

There is a Texas company that makes really good dehydrated meals, can't remember the name though.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2018 17:39

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