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ElectricSheep posted:Sacrifice isn't running back to the comfort of Angier's monied life (which he made frequent use of, even when he was stateside), it's what the Bordens put themselves through to maintain the illusion. They both are. Neither is good. The two competitors (the Bordens and Angier) are very selfish people who, in their pursuit of their own goal of glory, gently caress up others' lives. The 'sacrifice' of the Bordens isn't what 'they' put themselves through, it's that they drive one of their wives to suicide (and you could argue, though I don't remember this part too well, that they cause Angier's wife to die too). Angier's sacrifice is more extreme than Borden's in a way, he is willing to die. But his willingness to die has selfish motives. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Apr 27, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 11:03
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Ammanas posted:Yo having a clone from the machine isn't cool and fun according to the movie. The clones loving hate each other. Angier-B is pleased to know Angier-A is drowning in a box. This isn't really true, but also it doesn't really add any thematic weight to the movie. There is a perfectly coherent, thematic reason why Angier (who we know as a person from watching the movie) kills the clones. We do not need a science-fiction explanation for it.
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Apr 27, 2017 11:05
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Drunken Baker posted:The thing is, Angier prime, the one who shoots the first clone in Bowie's lab knows he's the prime. No he doesn't. What there is, basically, is a memory of being alive that is constantly passed, through cloning, to the clone who is alive. The clone who dies at the end of the movie has memories of surviving every single transportation/cloning process. You can't know you are the original or the clone on your own. The reason why machine works the way it does (one Angier appears somewhere else, one Angier is exactly where he should be) is probably because we can more easily assume that way that the one who appears elsewhere is 'the clone'. Therefore, we can say there is a higher than 50% chance that Angier is killing himself every night. If the machine worked by having two Angiers appear in two different places (and the one in the original spot disappears), it would be a genuine 'who's who', the way it's done makes it so that it's more likely that Angier is killing himself, but there's enough of a chance that he isn't that he is willing to take it. Which reflects negatively on him. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Apr 27, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 11:06
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precision posted:But the problem is the film isn't about, and shouldn't be about, Tesla's Machine at all. It's Borden's story, and the story of a competition. I'm not sure why you think it's Borden's story. Angier probably has more screentime. His actions drive most of the plot and we are deliberately kept in the dark about Borden a lot more (for obvious reasons). The whole story is structured to put emphasis on the cloning, by beginning with Angier's 'death' and framing a fair part of the story using Borden's diaries that are leading Angier to the machine. The machine is a really important element of the story because of the connection it forms between technological progress, petty human desires, and horror. It is an incredibly invention with horrible ethical consequences and is immediately used in a nightmarish way. It is a very traditional idea of people going to such extremes for bad reasons that they go beyond what is achievable in the natural world, with disastrous consequences.
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Apr 27, 2017 11:23
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precision posted:Right before Angier shoots himself, the "clone" says "Wait, stop, I'm-" and we can presume he was about to say "I'm the real one" or something similar. But having that scene only makes it absolutely clear that Angier knows he's going to drown every time, because he remember the first time he did it and how "he" didn't teleport. He should remember whether or not the "him" that steps into the machine will fall through the trapdoor or not because the machine always works the same way. Drunken Baker posted:Its been years since I've seen it, so was I mis-remembering the original bit where he does the first cloning? The thing is there is a difference between 'knowing you're the prime' and 'knowing where you landed'. When you create a physical duplicate of yourself who apparently also shares your memories, then the idea of relying on your own experience and your own perception no longer works, because you do not know if your 'memories' were just cloned or not. Angier can't remember that 'he' didn't teleport, becase these are two separate experiences. One is getting into the machine. The other is remaining there after the duplicate is made. But the first experience is not unique: he knows the other version of him also believes he got into a machine. He can't know if he remembers getting into the machine because he got into the machine, or because he's a duplicate who has the memory of someone who got into the machine. If this first Angier does not know if *he* is the duplicate or the original (and he can't really know it with certainty), then he cannot know if *he* will be the one who dies. If he's the original, he'll be the one who dies in the trick. If he's the clone, he'll be the one who lives. I think. All the death can also be interpreted as a way of not grappling with all the implications of this immense power he now has. raditts posted:But still, the thing that gets me is that he isn't forcing the clones to get in the tank. He kinda is. I mean, no one's *voluntarily* getting in the tank. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Apr 27, 2017 |
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Apr 27, 2017 20:57
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The gun is closer to one of them, and the one who appears elsewhere is probably more disoriented than the one who 'remains'.
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Apr 28, 2017 07:24
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Grendels Dad posted:I guess I need to rewatch The Prestige again because I was sure the difference between the Bordens was a comment on man's inner struggle, which would be kinda dumb if they were just regular twins. They're regular twins. It's telegraphed very early in the movie because Angier and Borden see a trick (a disappearing fish bowl or something like that) and Borden, unlike Angier, is able to figure out that the trick involves the performer pretending he's a frail old man (when in reality he's strong enough to hide this fish bowl between his legs and walk away with it). Angier does not see tricks the same way, so he does not realize the Borden trick is done with twins because the idea that someone could go through that insane amount of effort is inconceivable to him (as it should be, it's the most ridiculous part of the movie).
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Apr 30, 2017 00:58
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GoldStandardConure posted:The big part of the trick with the fish bowl is that the performer is able to keep up the old man act even when not on stage, etc. I think Borden follows him and sees him at home and realizes his dedication to the trick extends beyond the stage to his whole life. I think the thing that isn't very believable is that it takes a while for Borden to even start doing the trick. He would have had to spend years faking his identity just to eventually get to doing the trick.
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May 3, 2017 17:22
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