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bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



I got this game partially because of this LP.

Man, Highwang made the Mantis Lords look easy.

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bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



Johnny Joestar posted:

spells can really start cleaning up if you use certain charm load outs, at least. their versatility let's them keep pace with your nail throughout the game.

Yeah, with the upgrade from Soul Sanctum (that Highwang can't get yet) I grabbed that along with the Shaman Stone and it really trivializes traversing some of the weaker areas.

I vote for Soul Sanctum first because it's basically Castlevania, and also there's some neat 'lore' in the sense of some of the backgrounds.

Highwang needs the upgrade from Crystal Peak to get acid immunity, and needs some stuff from Soul Sanctum to get some goodies in Crystal Peak, if I remember right.

Is the optional boss that Highwang hates the Crystal Guardian 2? I eventually ended up just cheesing that one with a facetank charm build. I'm not at the end of the game - closer to halfway through, but... I played a lot.

Mover posted:

Voted Soul Sanctum because fighting the boss was like hurling my nuts into a vice repeatedly but goddamn if he isn't cool and well designed and has multiple holy poo poo moments

I must be missing something because for me the boss of Soul Sanctum has windows to heal that you could drift a bus through.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



SirSamVimes posted:

My favourite thing about Relic Seeker Lemm is that he comes off like a antisocial grouch but when you give him a chance to talk about history he eagerly goes on and on.

Pretty much all the NPCs were voiced by the devs' friends and family and it seems to me Lemm is totally one of the devs putting on their best 'exasperated nerd' voice.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



ponzicar posted:

One thing I find interesting about this game is that aside from the weapons being called nails (or a needle and thread, in Hornet's case), there's no giant human objects, or any traces of humanity that I can remember. I was expecting buildings made of shoes and tin cans, and "Honey I Shrunk the Kids" style set pieces, and was pleasantly surprised to see that they went with a much more original direction.

Yeah, this was something interesting - there's not really much sign of humanity at all, and the 'nails' aren't really in the shape of nails, and we'll see an explanation for thread later I think. It makes me think that maybe the bugs did originally use human nails as weapons, but as they distanced themselves from humans and started making their own, 'nail' just became their term for a weapon of that shape.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



So speaking of which, let's lore analyse so far! What do we know?

(Information below is only drawn from environments and bestiary entries so far in the game)

We know that bugs who descend into Hallownest often get lost or go mad and aggressive, explaining the enemies.
We also note that the mantises are still lucid and functional, and don't consider themselves a part of the Hallownest kingdom.
Mantises don't have orange/yellow eyes or markings, and neither do the friendly NPCs.

So we know orange stuff is a sign of 'infection' by the madness.

When we get to Hallownest, it's full of infected bugs wandering around, semi-stuck in their duty. They weren't able to beat the infection, despite whatever the 'Hollow Knight' there was a statue of was meant to do.

The player gets soul from hitting and killing things, which you use for focus and for magic. We don't know much about focus yet. With magic, Salubra will ask us if we've been 'naughty' and playing with spellcasting in her description of the Shaman Stone, and Soul Sanctum backs that up with mountains of dead bugs and soul trapped in jars. So, harm = soul collection = magic casting.

The bugs in Soul Sanctum are meant to be 'learned' and they seem to have kept a bit of that even after infection. Perhaps they were trying to use Soul to stave it off with the mass sacrifices - though clearly, it didn't work.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



You can theoretically get to the second half of City of Tears by going all the way right to the area on the far right of the map, I think, but it's a really roundabout method:
Crystal Peak -> Ancient Basin (where you fell in at the end there) -> take the other transport method that isn't the stag to go right -> go up, go right.

And I think to make it through that you would still need to go through the waterways anyway to get the acid immunity anyway. But it is another way in.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



vdate posted:

I absolutely accessed the City of Tears' second half by backdooring through the elevator to the Place What Highwang Is In Right Now after stumbling into THAT from Crystal Peak.

Oh right, whoops, I think I did the same. Despite seeing it in the video, I forgot that Ancient Basin connects through that elevator.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



The Waterways were probably my least favourite part of the game playing through it myself. The enemies are tedious, falling in the water is tedious, the optional boss isn't particularly interesting and is basically just a damage check, and Dung Defender is the lone bright spot.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



Is it possible to cheese That Sidequest by quitting from the menu?

Start at the endpoint, sit at a bench, fast travel to the start, pick up the item, then quit and reload?

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



Of the three superhard optional challenges the flower is probably the least offensive to non-completionists because the reward is only the final hit point, compared to another challenge that has an ending locked behind it, or a different one that affects journal completion.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



Fat Samurai posted:

Fair enough, it wasn't for me.

There is a similar challenge that makes you navigate on a limited health (reach a door with a minimum number blue health containers to open it and then platform a bit) that worked better for me because it required solving a puzzle and navigating new territory. I enjoyed that one much more.

That one's a good amount easier - once you have enough max health, you can just equip all the blue health givers and the charm that converts your regular health to blue health, and not only can you make it, pretty easily, but also take on or two hits on your way to the challenge.

Somewhat combining health-stacking with the Stalwart Shell charm is also an easy way to cheese a lot of bosses.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



Don't worry about picking up Geo, let the completionists suffer.

The only point in the game to ever be worried about geo is when you've been dying a lot and not just that but also losing your shade that had all your geo on it.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



ousire posted:

He also said the king was bright and glowy? So I'll just make a guess that the king is/was a firefly.

This is a good bet but has an altogether more unusual explanation.
You do see the king's symbol from time to time in the game, though - it looks like a four-pronged fork, or elongated crown.

It's actually gonna be a long-rear end time before we get concrete backstory about some things. Some of it will be in those 'kingdom outskirts' mentioned, some of it is from the moth after collecting a bunch of essence, some of it is from right near the end of the game.

"So like, where did the King come from" is a conversation that's 100% missable from a totally missable NPC.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



anilEhilated posted:

Lost Kin is actually pretty easy to cheese - using any kind of poison aura pops his summons in one shot and without them he's pretty easy to damage-race. Hell, he's the only one of the refights I beat.

You can also damage race the big guy, the last one is the only one you have to fight legitimately.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



I have no idea where Highwang got that 'Traitor' lore because it's definitely not in the game.

As mentioned, the Traitors are traitors because they accepted they accepted the Infection in return for additional strength, and so they got cast out.
The Hunter's Journal explicitly says this.

Nothing to do with King's society at all.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



Glazius posted:

...actually I wonder what the heck charms are that you can just pick up a bit of slug bolus and be "yeah, this'll fit in real nice."

Salubra will actually answer this question in-game.

Reaching Howling Cliffs via Stag seems pretty unlikely to me... I'd figure most players would be able to find it as soon as they get the walljump. Crystal Dash is also helpful but not necessary.

Once you have the walljump, dream nail and groundpound, you can access 100% of Howling Cliffs - no double-jump needed.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



Highwang posted:


In order to even attempt the best ending, the Dream Nail needs to have at least 1800 soul energy in order to peer into "protected minds." This basically means you will need to do the three big major boss refights, along with a majority of lesser mid-bosses. I do skip 1-2 midbosses in this video by merit of I just suck at them in general, but yeah to get to 1800 you don't need to do the trees at all sadly.

You only need 1800 Essence for the endings...
But completionists will need 2400 Essence to hear dialogue from the Seer that sheds a bit of information on the plot! And that's a completionist's real reward - text boxes. Just like Dark Souls.

bewilderment fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Oct 24, 2017

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



I hope that Highwang knows that unless they're 100% terrible at it, it's much faster to use Deep Focus + Grubsong than it is to use Hiveblood for this.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



So Highwang extols the virtues of Hiveblood, which is good for the white palace.

But as long as you don't need infinite tries - just, like, fifty of them per obstacle course - you can probably get through a little faster with the Grubsong and Deep Focus charms.

Grubsong gives you some soul back whenever you get hurt. Enough to heal about 45% of a health segment.
Deep Focus doubles the amount of healing you get when you heal, in exchange for a slightly longer charge time on the heal.
This means that whenever you get hurt, you get enough soul back to heal 90% of a health piece.

You can also refill your soul both on the Wingmoulds (the undying flying things) as well as the servant bugs, by using the Dream Nail repeatedly.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



So we finally have lore! The whole story!

It seems like this incidence of the 'Radiance-virus' is a resurgence. The timeline seems to be close to:
- Radiance starts taking over people in Hallownest - the great knights don't know what to do
- Research starts on a way to try and beat it - the Soul Master tries souls and mass sacrifice for it, while the King goes for the Abyss.
- After a long while, the Hollow Knight is created while Our Hero is buried underground.
- The Hollow Knight is apparently successful, at least for a time - long enough to make a memorial statue, anyway.
- Then, the infection comes back - the Hollow Knight wasn't pure enough. In the form of orange goop.
- Hallownest finally falls to orangegoop Radiance. Only the Mantis Tribe, Dirtmouth, and the other various NPCs are holdouts against it.
- The game begins, as Our Hero has somehow found their way to the cliffs near Dirtmouth.

But there's not much to back this up concretely 100%- what we've got is almost as much information as we're gonna get.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



I forget if it was pointed out in this thread, but for most of the bosses in this game their patterns or general abilities are taught to you with the preceding enemies in their area. Soul Master has abilities like the other magic bugs. The Mantis Lords and Traitor Lord fight like better versions of the other mantises. Before you fight False Knight you fight some Havel-looking bugs.

The Radiance doesn't seem to have an easy parallel... until you remember that as a 'dream' boss, it has its predecessors in the form of the Dream Warriors, multiple of which have patterns like The Radiance. Elder Hu has pillars like that, for example, and Gorb shoots out spikes in a circle.

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bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



edit: ignore this

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