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Mind over Matter
Jun 1, 2007
Four to a dollar.



Oh geeze those Nova buffs, I didn't expect any more real balance changes but I'll take 'em. I'm the one person who always loved Advanced Cloaking.

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Nybble
Jun 28, 2008

praise chuck, raise heck
What does the XP on Enemy bullet point mean?

Machai
Feb 21, 2013

Nybble posted:

What does the XP on Enemy bullet point mean?

I assume it means when you die, it pops up how much XP the enemy team gained.

Issakhar
Sep 10, 2009

^ This

I'm guessing they're trying to make it like Dota (and LoL?) as an indicator of how much you're "feeding" the enemy team.

Although I don't think there's a mechanic in HoTS that increases your hero value depending on how much gold you're carrying / if you're on a killing streak but I might be wrong though!

Shockeh
Feb 24, 2009

Now be a dear and
fuck the fuck off.
*laughs in why-the-gently caress-are-they-buffing-Medivh*

Also, how do Ming & Valeera just sit there, queens of zero fuckin' effort dps mountain, untouched?

Star
Jul 15, 2005

Guerilla war struggle is a new entertainment.
Fallen Rib
Valeera sits at 47% win rate so hardly oppressive

Shockeh
Feb 24, 2009

Now be a dear and
fuck the fuck off.
Sure, but that's just because she's maximum cool edgelord, right? Do we even have data on pick rates?

Mind over Matter
Jun 1, 2007
Four to a dollar.



According to heroesprofile.com , Valeera has a 12% pick rate in QM and 4% in Storm League.

She is not the hero you think she is.

Shockeh
Feb 24, 2009

Now be a dear and
fuck the fuck off.
Welp, I stand corrected!

Mind over Matter
Jun 1, 2007
Four to a dollar.



I don't want to speak for you or assume anything, but is it possible you are thinking of Valla, the similarly-named Diablo demon hunter? Because unlike Warcraft rogue Valeera, Valla IS both strong and popular.

Highest pick rate in SL, second highest in QM after good ol' Nazeebo.

Shockeh
Feb 24, 2009

Now be a dear and
fuck the fuck off.

Mind over Matter posted:

I don't want to speak for you or assume anything, but is it possible you are thinking of Valla, the similarly-named Diablo demon hunter? Because unlike Warcraft rogue Valeera, Valla IS both strong and popular.

Highest pick rate in SL, second highest in QM after good ol' Nazeebo.

No, I meant Valeera, and weirdly have no problem with Valla. Valla doesn't have the level of burst (Q build I guess maybe?), and when caught out of position, dies as she should.

I'm cool with accepting my hatred of Valeera is a 'me' thing, incidentally. :v:

FungiCap
Jul 23, 2007

Let's all just calm down and put on our thinking caps.
I landed in an ARAM game where every single player on the enemy team left after it spawned an "all same heroes" match. I didnt know before but apparently if this happens the game ends within 20 seconds if no one rejoins.

Mind over Matter
Jun 1, 2007
Four to a dollar.



Which hero was it?

FungiCap
Jul 23, 2007

Let's all just calm down and put on our thinking caps.
Falstad

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

Mind over Matter posted:

Valla IS both strong and popular.
Can you imagine, a DPS with a stun? This is insa- *faceless void enters room* IT IS, TIME

Star
Jul 15, 2005

Guerilla war struggle is a new entertainment.
Fallen Rib
One reason for solely playing ranked is to avoid the loving nightmare that is braxis

BRJurgis
Aug 15, 2007

Well I hear the thunder roll, I feel the cold winds blowing...
But you won't find me there, 'cause I won't go back again...
While you're on smoky roads, I'll be out in the sun...
Where the trees still grow, where they count by one...
Aram is so awesome that I don't have the patience for a quick match. Like if it's not a 5man with somebody calling stuff in voice, aram seems better. So it's OK how casual or high or even dunk I may be.

It forces you to learn all roles and characters, and experiment with talent builds. ARAM is where you learn to play and pick characters because it is where you come to know them best!

Machai
Feb 21, 2013

Star posted:

One reason for solely playing ranked is to avoid the loving nightmare that is braxis

Braxis has been in ranked rotation for years though.

Star
Jul 15, 2005

Guerilla war struggle is a new entertainment.
Fallen Rib

Machai posted:

Braxis has been in ranked rotation for years though.

I said the wrong map name. Is it warhead junction that it’s called? The one with the nukes.

appropriatemetaphor
Jan 26, 2006

Yeah shithead junction. Hate that one. Red team always has like a couple globals and a hat Valeera in every bush on a pile of mines.

Kith
Sep 17, 2009

You never learn anything
by doing it right.


HOTS is at its best when the teams are constantly fighting. Warhead Junction is therefore the worst map because it takes FOR-loving-EVER to get anywhere

Kaal
May 22, 2002

through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.
I always enjoyed Warhead Junction because it was such a good example of how map design impacts hero balance. Heroes with lots of mobility and lane control were really able to shine there, in a way that they often struggled to in tighter maps. That sort of thing works great if you want some heroes to be good at different sort of needs, and for players to draft accordingly. But not so much if you just really want to Quickplay The Butcher.

FungiCap
Jul 23, 2007

Let's all just calm down and put on our thinking caps.
blackheart bay is the worst map i regret to inform the jury

and towers of doom is a triumph of design

Nybble
Jun 28, 2008

praise chuck, raise heck
that’s a funny pairing of maps because if you’re attacking the core directly, you’re doing it wrong

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

FungiCap posted:

blackheart bay is the worst map i regret to inform the jury

and towers of doom is a triumph of design
Towers of Doom is the correction of HotS' design where macro losses can be taken back but the gane still has a time limit (and the map is just cool as heck on top of it). Interestingly enough Pokemon Unite is designed quite a bit like towers of doom but without the epic feel.

Issakhar
Sep 10, 2009

I'm on the same boat, I enjoy both Warhead Junction and Towers of Doom but abhor Blackheart's Bay because in my experience it's always two scenarios:

a) nobody in my team collects and/or protects the coins while at the same time failing to win team fights.

b) EVERYBODY want to collect coins but have no sense of preservation, positioning, so it becomes a constant stream of coins and XP for the other team

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


The two Diablo maps are really good, imo. And the desert map with the laser towers.

Mind over Matter
Jun 1, 2007
Four to a dollar.



I hate Battlefield of Eternity several orders of magnitude more than any other map, including Blackheart's Bay. Infernal Shrines is fine, though.

Doctor Syrup
Apr 7, 2009

Bring back Haunted Mines

cmdrk
Jun 10, 2013

Doctor Syrup posted:

Bring back Haunted Mines

Came here just to say this. Even if Deathwing weirdly breaks it, bring it back cowards.

Nybble
Jun 28, 2008

praise chuck, raise heck
given that someone there has been doing small engine tweaks around things like reveal… I could see that happening?

Kith
Sep 17, 2009

You never learn anything
by doing it right.


Kaal posted:

I always enjoyed Warhead Junction because it was such a good example of how map design impacts hero balance. Heroes with lots of mobility and lane control were really able to shine there, in a way that they often struggled to in tighter maps. That sort of thing works great if you want some heroes to be good at different sort of needs, and for players to draft accordingly. But not so much if you just really want to Quickplay The Butcher.

The biggest problem with larger maps is that, the bigger the map gets, the more a 1/4 split - and therefore stealth heroes - gain power. The more space there is, the more individual players get removed from the action, and that weakens the experience considerably.

Star
Jul 15, 2005

Guerilla war struggle is a new entertainment.
Fallen Rib
While warhead obviously sucks, I noticed that since I last played they at least added shortcuts between top and bottom.

Kith
Sep 17, 2009

You never learn anything
by doing it right.


Taken directly from Towers of Doom, amusingly enough. They didn't even bother to tint the texture to make it look like it fit.

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

as a filthy abathur player, blackheart's bay and warhead junction are two of my favorite maps

Star
Jul 15, 2005

Guerilla war struggle is a new entertainment.
Fallen Rib
Played a ranked game where the enemy drafted murky, tlv, abathur, falstad and medivh. It did not go well for them.

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

I remember back when pro HOTS was a thing there was a match where a team of murdadin, abathur, valeera, zeratul, and medivh won a game

The muradin always seemed to me like the glue that held that gimmick together. Not having a tank in a drafted game sounds like a pretty bad time.

Nybble
Jun 28, 2008

praise chuck, raise heck
I love that match. It’s a really good watch to see some of the cooler strategies that were possible in HotS.

https://youtu.be/4S2v0rZyfyw?feature=shared

Issakhar
Sep 10, 2009

Remember when healing fountains weren't invulnerable?

Man, that change took them so drat long!

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FungiCap
Jul 23, 2007

Let's all just calm down and put on our thinking caps.
every QM was a genji at lvl 1 jumping the wall and assassinating the well lol

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