UKMT May 2017: Weak and Wobbly vs. Old and Knobbly

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT May 2017: Weak and Wobbly vs. Old and Knobbly

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

The German newspaper FAZ has an account of the midweek dinner meeting between May/Davis and Juncker, which is really not complimentary at all of the PM; the Economist's Berlin bureau chief did a translation of the highlights on Twitter: https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/858810953353367552

quote:

1) May had said she wanted to talk not just Brexit but also world problems; but in practice it fell to Juncker to propose one to discuss.
2) May has made clear to the Commission that she fully expects to be reelected as PM.
3) It is thought [in the Commission] that May wants to frustrate the daily business of the EU27, to improve her own negotiating position.
4) May seemed pissed off at Davis for regaling her dinner guests of his ECJ case against her data retention measures - three times.
5) EU side were astonished at May's suggestion that EU/UK expats issue could be sorted at EU Council meeting at the end of June.
6) Juncker objected to this timetable as way too optimistic given complexities, eg on rights to health care.
7) Juncker pulled two piles of paper from his bag: Croatia's EU entry deal, Canada's free trade deal. His point: Brexit will be v v complex.
8) May wanted to work through the Brexit talks in monthly, 4-day blocks; all confidential until the end of the process.
9) Commission said impossible to reconcile this with need to square off member states & European Parliament, so documents must be published.
10) EU side felt May was seeing whole thing through rose-tinted-glasses. "Let us make Brexit a success" she told them.
11) Juncker countered that Britain will now be a third state, not even (like Turkey) in the customs union: "Brexit cannot be a success".
12) May seemed surprised by this and seemed to the EU side not to have been fully briefed.
13) She cited her own JHA opt-out negotiations as home sec as a model: a mutually useful agreement meaning lots on paper, little in reality.
14) May's reference to the JHA (justice and home affairs) opt-outs set off alarm signals for the EU side. This was what they had feared.
15) ie as home sec May opted out of EU measures (playing to UK audience) then opted back in, and wrongly thinks she can do same with Brexit
16) "The more I hear, the more sceptical I become" said Juncker (this was only half way through the dinner)
17) May then insisted to Juncker et al that UK owes EU no money because there is nothing to that effect in the treaties.
18) Her guests then informed her that the EU is not a golf club
19) Davis then objected that EU could not force a post-Brexit, post-ECJ UK to pay the bill. OK, said Juncker, then no trade deal.
20) ...leaving EU27 with UK's unpaid bills will involve national parliaments in process (a point that Berlin had made *repeatedly* before).
21) "I leave Downing St ten times as sceptical as I was before" Juncker told May as he left
22) Next morning at c7am Juncker called Merkel on her mobile, said May living in another galaxy & totally deluding herself
23) Merkel quickly reworked her speech to Bundestag to include her now-famous "some in Britain still have illusions" comment
24) FAZ concludes: May in election mode & playing to crowd, but what use is a big majority won by nurturing delusions of Brexit hardliners?
25) Juncker's team now think it more likely than not that Brexit talks will collapse & hope Brits wake up to harsh realities in time.
26) What to make of it all? Obviously this leak is a highly tactical move by Commission. But contents deeply worrying for UK nonetheless.
27) The report points to major communications/briefing problems. Important messages from Berlin & Brussels seem not to be getting through.
28) Presumably as a result, May seems to be labouring under some really rather fundamental misconceptions about Brexit & the EU27.
29) Also clear that (as some of us have been warning for a while...) No 10 should expect every detail of the Brexit talks to leak.

e: the Reuters writeup of the article is here: http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-may-idUKKBN17W09L

Unfortunately, this is likely to be an ongoing feature of the brexit farce, with the EU perspective on the proceedings being primarily reported in non-English language sources and thus less visible to the UK public. Also, the bit about expecting every aspect of the talks to leak no matter how much May rabbits on about wanting to avoid giving away Britain's hand or whatever is spot on - the exact same thing happened during the "negotiations" between the EU/eurogroup/troika and the Greek government, which is the most similar situation I can think of.

LemonDrizzle fucked around with this message at 00:50 on May 1, 2017

# ¿ May 1, 2017 00:20

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# ¿ May 2, 2024 11:51

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

jBrereton posted:

I'm loving glad that this thing is being done with the best intentions by both sides, with the reasonable concerns hundreds of millions of EU + UK citizens taken into account, not the ego of a guy who let the EU collapse and some smug prick and his schoolteacher mistress taking charge.

The EU is not collapsing, and EU citizens in general support the Commission's stance, sooooo...

# ¿ May 1, 2017 08:30

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

https://twitter.com/MiRo_SPD/status/858952076700917760

Roth is the German Minister for Europe.

# ¿ May 1, 2017 09:20

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/renters-on-housing-benefit-barred-from-buy-to-let-homes-cw0qcw9cq

quote:

Banks are pushing families to the brink of homelessness by banning buy-to-let landlords from renting to people on housing benefit.
Two thirds of the biggest lenders will not accept applications from landlords who let to tenants who are receiving help from the state. The policy excludes a significant number of the working poor from accessing a large chunk of private rented accommodation, research shows.
With greater demand on social housing and a buoyant rental market, low-income workers often have no choice but to accept unsafe or unsanitary housing. In the worst cases they have to accept temporary or emergency accommodation, according to Shelter, the housing charity.

The number of tenants in the private sector receiving state help has risen by 50 per cent to almost 1.5 million since the financial crisis as wages stagnate and rents rise.
The banks� ban means that many tenants are unable to move house, leaving them vulnerable to rent rises and poor treatment by landlords. The issue has contributed to the rise in the number of families in emergency accommodation. More than 120,000 children are living in temporary homes, according to the public accounts committee.

The problem has led to the unprecedented step of landlord groups and housing charities joining forces in calling for reform.
The Residential Landlords Association is demanding that the next government undertake a review of how lenders are preventing landlords from renting to benefit claimants, and act on its recommendations.
Alan Ward, chairman of the group, said: �The benefits system is not working for tenants or landlords. Discrimination against tenants receiving benefits is not driven by landlords but by the banking system. If the private rented sector is to house more people then barriers to landlords making fair decisions over who they rent to must be removed.�
Anne Baxendale, of Shelter, said: �Life for families who need housing benefit to top up their monthly income is hard enough without having to deal with this cruel prejudice from the banking system. With the country in the grip of a housing crisis, it�s appalling to see banks going out of their way to make life even harder for people who cannot find somewhere affordable to live.
�By putting an end to this practice banks can help ease the pressure for thousands of families already struggling to get by.�

The research by 3mc, a mortgage broker, found that 66 per cent of lenders, representing about 90 per cent of the buy-to-let market, including TSB, Santander, Virgin and NatWest, do not allow properties to be rented out to people receiving housing benefit.
Only one of the 58 lenders examined had no criteria relating to housing benefit claimants in the small print of their loans.
A spokesman for the Council of Mortgage Lenders said: �Individual lenders are responsible for setting their own mortgage terms and conditions and will take into account a wide range of factors, including their perception of risk in the market. For the tenure to provide security for the lender, landlord and tenant, it is crucial that landlords are able to fulfil their mortgage commitments.�

# ¿ May 1, 2017 10:43

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

jBrereton posted:

The EU gave up earlier this year when the remaining rich members said they were fine with a "multi-speed" Europe.

I don't think EU citizens in general will actually support the commission's stance when �290bil of exports and �240bil of imports are put under threat because Juncker, Verhofstadt, and Barnier are too vain to get along with the quite stupid Davis, Fox, and May. The handful of people doing the negotiations are rich enough for it not to matter to them personally. The workers of Europe, not so much.

A multi-speed Europe has been the reality more or less since the show got on the road, and �290 billion of exports is not a huge deal in the context of an economic bloc with a GDP of around 14 trillion.

# ¿ May 1, 2017 13:45

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

The Shadow Chancellor addressing the public, today, under the banners of the Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist) and the Assad regime.

# ¿ May 1, 2017 19:33

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

https://twitter.com/thepileus/status/859122057598128129

# ¿ May 1, 2017 22:25

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Familial wealth is now the 9th biggest source of funding for house purchases in the country: https://www.ft.com/content/0bd5e826-2e49-11e7-9555-23ef563ecf9a

quote:

The Bank of Mum and Dad has unofficially become Britain�s ninth-biggest �mortgage lender� with loans and gifts from family or friends increasing 30 per cent this year to �6.5bn as house prices keep rising.
The scale of lending from the �Bomad�, which now helps fund 26 per cent of all UK property transactions, puts it on a par with Yorkshire Building Society, the ninth-biggest residential lender in Britain, according to new research. For those under the age of 35, the proportion seeking help from parents, friends and family for property purchases stands at 62 per cent.
The number of transactions in which family plays a role is just under 300,000, according to the study by Legal & General. The insurer first assessed the scale of Bomad lending for home purchases last year, when it said �5bn was lent. This year 42 per cent of prospective homeowners expect to get help from relatives, up from one-third last year.
House prices rose 7.3 per cent on average in 2016, according to the house price index produced by the Office for National Statistics. Price growth has subsequently fallen back to 5.8 per cent in the year to February. The average house price was �218,000 in February, �12,000 higher than in February 2016.

# ¿ May 2, 2017 08:58

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Curse those dastardly blairites and their wickedness in refusing to lend Corbyn their esoteric skills such as "basic numeracy" and "working memory".

# ¿ May 2, 2017 11:21

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

well, that was quick

https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/859440337017819138

# ¿ May 2, 2017 17:19

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/859479841116217344
Apparently the party of government has been renamed the Teresa May Strong and Stable party, and was campaigning in my neck of the woods this afternoon. Hmmmm.

# ¿ May 2, 2017 19:55

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

OK, they're really going for it: Tory candidates forced to have Theresa May's name on their election billboards

quote:

The would-be MPs have been given only one design for the boards, which are put in the gardens of Conservative supporters.
Below the candidate's name, it says: "Standing with Theresa May."
The word 'Conservatives' is in smaller writing in the bottom right hand corner of the billboards.
One candidate said: "We're usually given a selection of designs, but this time central office is only giving us one. They obviously want the election all about who should be Prime Minister."
The move is a clear sign of Tory bosses' confidence that Mrs May is a huge vote-winner in the upcoming election.
Opinion polls consistently show her as more popular than her party - and well ahead of Jeremy Corbyn as a potential Prime Minister.
Conservative strategists believe the party leader's personal ratings are also a major advantage as they try to make gains in traditionally Labour areas.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ May 2, 2017 21:27

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Here is a man who is very upset with Tim Farron and Labour:

https://twitter.com/sam_lister_/status/859700774661697536

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ May 3, 2017 11:43

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/859783194790330368

those meddling eurocrats!

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ May 3, 2017 16:01

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

A grimly amusing thread written by the FT's Southern Africa correspondent: recent events in UK politics covered in the style of a foreign correspondent reporting on events in foreignland: https://twitter.com/jsphctrl/status/837722099313688577

quote:

March 3rd: The English People's Congress promised a firm line over a power-sharing deal with northern separatists today.
Elsewhere, concerns grew over a growing sectarian divide in polls held in another area of the restive region.
The faction-riven EPC handling of exit from a regional development community is exacerbating concern over the state's territorial viability.
In a plea for unity, the prime minister - who took power in summer after years as interior minister - said �at heart we are one people."

March 7th: The English People's Congress is planning a "massive transfer" of power to the executive, embattled lawmakers said.
The warning comes as the country's legislative council is resisting EPC attempts to convert it into a rubber-stamp.
Despite the unelected body usually being pliant through patronage, the standoff points to the decay of elite consensus in the fragile state.
Opposition groupings - including the largely defunct Workers' Party and several secessionist parties - remain divided through the crisis.

March 13th: Separatists in the north launched another independence bid today, warning that the English People's Congress may hold power into the 2030s.
The separatists' leader said that southern politicians had been given �every opportunity to compromise.�

March 17th: A purged former finance minister - and ruling party politician - secured editorial control of a newspaper in the country's capital today.

March 21st: Hardliners pressured the embattled finance minister to default on obligations they regard as illegitimate.

March 26th: As separatists gain ground, relations with the region are increasingly focused on avoiding triggers for secession.

March 29th: The country's premier pleaded with its northwestern province not to secede today. She also sent a letter to leaders of a regional union.

April 2nd: Despite hardliners' sabre-rattling, the premier did not rule out talks over sovereignty of an overseas semi-enclave.

April 18th: THIS JUST IN: Tensions are running high in the capital as the country's premier, beset by regional unrest, prepares a significant statement.
Some analysts speculated that the ruling party could announce early elections to tighten its grip on power and crush a divided opposition.
(Kremlinologists noted the lack of an official state seal on the premier's podium as a coded signal towards early elections.)
In calling the election, the premier attacked splittist forces causing divisions in the country's sclerotic legislature.
Some analysts believe this reflects a plebiscitary turn in the country's politics as stresses mount on its ramshackle constitution.

April 19th: A liberal opponent of the premier within the ruling party stepped down as a legislator. He will retain editorial control of a mouthpiece.

May 3rd: The premier railed against foreign interference by western governments in elections widely expected to rubber-stamp her hold on power.
Regime rhetoric - allegedly crafted by a western PR firm - has been promoting a personality cult around the "strong and stable" premier.
Analysts say this latest heightening of tensions has come after regional leaders called on the country to honour its financial obligations.

O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!

LemonDrizzle fucked around with this message at 17:31 on May 3, 2017

# ¿ May 3, 2017 17:21

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

forkboy84 posted:

There's a loving easy solution to this unfairness, which is to allow non-EU spouses to have exactly the same rights as EU spouses

This is, in fact, May's plan! :downs:

be careful what you wish for...

# ¿ May 3, 2017 21:31

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

There's also one from TNS with CON 48, LAB 24, LD 11, UKIP 7, GRN 4, SNP 4: https://t.co/TfFQ4bLD4l

# ¿ May 3, 2017 22:43

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

hello thread good morning and please remember to do a democracy today

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/860011105808113664

# ¿ May 4, 2017 07:18

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

screw those filthy eurowogs we're taking our money and going home in a huff

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/34754...ory-government/

quote:

The Sun can reveal Mrs May is drawing up a �nuclear option� of immediately ending Britain�s �18bn annual Budget payments if Brexit talks breakdown,
...
A "nuclear option" is to immediately halt Britain�s annual contribution to the EU budget, which we are still due to pay for the next two years until we leave in 2019.
As the UK is the second largest contributor to Brussels coffers behind only Germany, the move would wreak havoc to the EU�s spending plans.
A senior Tory source dubbed it �the nuclear option�, adding: �Ceasing our contributions is not a threat No10 want to make yet, but it has certainly been discussed�.
There were signs last night that other EU leaders were getting fed up with Mr Juncker and Selmayr�s antics and want them marginalised.
The EU�s chief negotiator Michael Barnier also undermined a withering briefing about the No10 dinner that Mrs May had last week with him and Mr Juncker.

# ¿ May 4, 2017 08:07

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Pissflaps posted:

Hopefully it won't come to that but it has to be a backstop option, surely?

Stopping contributions while still an EU member? No, that's not a credible backstop option at all since it'd mean that the UK was explicitly saying to the international community that it cannot be trusted to uphold any treaty it signs, which really isn't a great message to be sending when you're trying to negotiate a whole raft of new trade deals and arrangements with international bodies.

# ¿ May 4, 2017 08:58

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Pluskut Tukker posted:

"If you don't give in to our demands, I'll shoot myself"

It is incredibly disappointing to see that our government apparently looked at Syriza's negotiating tactics and thought "my, that looks like a fiendishly clever and successful approach!"

GaussianCopula posted:

Reminder: Everything Brexit related coming from the UK government is meant for internal consumption only until the polls close on election day. If you want to go full tinfoil even the leaks about the dinner could have been orchestrated to give May an easy opponent to beat up on while not even engaging her internal opposition, given that even the EU has an interest to see May win as much high as possible.

As above, I really don't think that's the case - I'm getting a strong Tsipras/Varoufakis vibe from May and the three Brexiteers.

# ¿ May 4, 2017 09:20

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Context on "Strong and Stable Leadership" and the Tories' endless repetition thereof:

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/860076729552994304

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/860076922088419328

LemonDrizzle fucked around with this message at 11:26 on May 4, 2017

# ¿ May 4, 2017 11:24

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

https://twitter.com/SarahLudford/status/860058892654587904

soon, soon we will be free of these meddling eurocrats and their insistence that we not flush turds directly into rivers, lakes, or any sea of our choosing!

# ¿ May 4, 2017 15:04

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

https://twitter.com/MrSteerpike/status/860074687224852482

there is no such thing as individuality

all shall become appendages of May, servants to Her will

thus hath She spoken, thus shall it be

# ¿ May 4, 2017 15:35

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/860432151895998464

well then

# ¿ May 5, 2017 10:59

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Private Speech posted:

Seems like a good showing for Labour in Bristol though, someone earlier said that the Tories were winning there which was a bit . If the Tories could win in Bristol South they probably could most places.

The Tories won the West of England metro mayoralty (which covers Bristol), with Labour coming second and the Lib Dems third. I don't think there were any other council elections in Bristol.

# ¿ May 5, 2017 11:37

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Private Speech posted:

Yeah that's the one I meant. I know the rural parts are conservative, but still

I'm emotionally invested I went to uni there

The Conservative candidate explicitly pitched himself to rural voters, saying they needed a counterbalance to the Labour mayor of Bristol to ensure that Bristol didn't receive all the goodies while the rural parts of the region were ignored.

Pissflaps posted:

Is there a breakdown of vote share as a percentage?

For the West of England mayoralty or across the elections? There won't be one for the elections as a whole because the full results aren't yet in.

# ¿ May 5, 2017 11:43

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

jBrereton posted:

For gently caress's sakes don't take Kinnock as your inspiration for anything other than miraculously keeping a job you do badly

Kinnock inherited a badly beaten party that had just taken a massive defeat and raised it from 209 seats to 271, gaining seats in both elections he contested as leader. He didn't win, but he did a lot to rebuild the party and regain the electorate's confidence after the disaster of Foot's leadership and the longest suicide note in history. Corbyn inherited a party with 232 seats and looks set to leave it in the worst electoral position it's been in since the '30s.

# ¿ May 5, 2017 12:26

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/860492401152061440

it's fine, they said
it won't be a rerun of 1983, they said

*labour performs worse than 1983*

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ May 5, 2017 16:07

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Ewan posted:

I don't really get what this means. What does it mean by their "2nd preference has gone to...X" ?

When you cast a ballot for the mayoralty, you were asked to nominate first and second preference candidates. If any candidate gets >50% of the first preference votes, they win. Otherwise, the two candidates with the highest first preference votes are given the votes of every voter who selected them as second preference, and whichever of the two has the highest adjusted vote total wins.

# ¿ May 5, 2017 16:13

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

everything is cool and there is nothing to be disheartened about : http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-local-elections-jeremy-corbyn-momentum-a7719456.html

quote:

As a Momentum member, I'm not disheartened by Labour's losses in the local elections
The local elections results don't reflect the support Jeremy Corbyn has across the country as the anti-establishment candidate many voters are looking for

The local election results are coming in, and the pundits are predicting doom for Labour in next month�s general election. I could have written that line before we even knew the results � in fact I did � because it relies on two hard facts that were never going to change. Firstly, that these local elections are not nationwide and exclude pretty much everywhere that Labour�s vote share has been improving (for instance, there were no elections in London). Secondly, that large sections of the media are committed to building a narrative against Jeremy Corbyn.

But the pundits should be careful because the ground is shifting from under that narrative. Labour, which under Corbyn�s leadership has grown to be the biggest left of centre party in Europe, has woken up. Unprecedented numbers are heading to the doorstep all over the country. Most of the recent polls have the Tories� lead cut in half from where it was a few weeks ago.

Labour�s army of campaigners were never drawn to the idea of giving up their evenings and weekends by good polling numbers, and they won�t be put off by the odd setback in county council elections. They have been inspired by a vision for a radically different kind of society � an alternative to the rigged political and economic system in which nurses are using foodbanks and four million children are living in poverty.

It�s the people versus the establishment, and for the first time in my lifetime we have, in Jeremy Corbyn, a potential prime minister who is really on our side.

so there you go! smile!

# ¿ May 5, 2017 16:20

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

MikeCrotch posted:

The only reason macron might win is he going head to head with a *literal fascist*. He wants to do this by telling everyone they need to work longer hours and that deregulation and privatisation are the way forward. These are all the things that have got us to where we are now, I'm totally baffles how anyone can look at this and think "yes, this is what we need more of."

I think you are a bit confused about why he's likely to win. He's likely to win because he won the largest share of the vote in the first round, and because second round polls had him winning >60% of the vote against every possible challenger, including the left wing candidate M�lenchon.

# ¿ May 6, 2017 10:21

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Jose posted:

its cool how he's going to be able to do gently caress all when he wins

Maybe, maybe not - there's not a whole lot of polling for the Assembly elections yet, but the one that has been reported gave him (well, En Marche!) a good shot at securing a majority of the deputies.

# ¿ May 6, 2017 10:30

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Also, Barnier's updated the EU's negotiating position on the rights of EU citizens in the UK post-Brexit (and those of UK citizens in the EU): http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-17-1236_en.htm

Key points (shamelessly cribbing from Faisal Islam's twitter feed as well as my own reading):

In 2004, the UK was one of very few countries to immediately open its labour market to the new Member States (aka "lmao why are you moaning about something you did voluntarily?")
Free movement of people is one of the four essential freedoms. These four freedoms are indivisible. This is how our Single Market works. And let me be clear: the integrity of the Single Market will never be compromised in these negotiations.
Protection [of currently-resident EU citizens' current rights] should apply for the life time of the citizens who are concerned.
The rights of family members should also continue to be protected including in those circumstances where family members are not themselves EU citizens.
Number one: the level of protection afforded under EU law must not be watered down. Brexit should not alter the nature of people's daily lives. Number two: there must be equal treatment between all EU and UK nationals in the UK. Inversely, equal treatment between UK citizens and the nationals of the 27 Member States must also be the rule when UK citizens live in those 27 states. Number three: the EU requires crystal-clear guarantees that rights will be effectively enforced. For UK citizens in the EU, the European Court of Justice will play its role to ensure the application of the withdrawal agreement. Similarly in the UK, the rights in the withdrawal agreement will need to be directly enforceable and the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice maintained.
Let me give you some further examples of the sorts of situations that we will inevitably have to confront: A Greek engineer in the UK must maintain the right to export the full amount of her old-age pension to Greece if she decides to retire in Athens. A German worker in the UK must have access to healthcare under the same conditions as UK nationals. The Spanish widow of a UK national living in the UK must continue to enjoy the rights that she has today. A Scottish designer who has worked in Hungary for the last ten years, and who finishes his career in Glasgow, must be able to aggregate all his pension periods after returning to the UK. If his daughter decides to stay in Budapest to attend university there, she must be treated in the same manner as a Hungarian national. The son of a Polish worker residing in the UK must be able to attend higher education under the same conditions as a British national. It should not matter if this happens in 2020 or in 2030.
To conclude, some in the UK have tried to blame Member States for the continued uncertainty that citizens have been confronted with for ten months now. That is wrong. The only cause of uncertainty is Brexit.

Oh, also the UK has to accept all of the above before things like trade can even begin to be discussed.

LemonDrizzle fucked around with this message at 10:47 on May 6, 2017

# ¿ May 6, 2017 10:40

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

The Sun also has a helpful contribution!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3494310/theresa-may-and-her-team-of-tories-wont-play-if-the-eu-continues-to-play-dirty/

quote:

THERESA MAY and her team don�t take insults lying down. They�ve always been determined to have the last word in any argument.
So, they were furious when Jean-Claude Juncker�s cronies briefed out the most unflattering account possible of the dinner that May had had with him and his negotiators.
Their anger was heightened by the fact that the dinner had been meant to build trust between the two sides ahead of the Brexit negotiations getting under way.
The mood darkened over the ensuing days as yet more leaks came out of Brussels.
As one veteran of David Cameron renegotiation remarked to me, Martin Selmayr � Jean-Claude Juncker�s Machiavellian chief of staff � was again poisoning the well against the British.
May then decided on an extraordinary course of action.

One of the UK government�s big worries is that the rest of the EU still thinks that May won�t walk away, no matter how bad the deal on offer is.
This is why the EU feels emboldened to ramp up the amount Britain supposedly owes, using accounting techniques that would make Enron blush.
I understand that not only has the Cabinet Secretary Jeremy Heywood told every Government department to prepare for a no-deal scenario, but the Government is also considering publishing it.
They hope that by setting out their plan, they would show the rest of the EU that Britain really was prepared to walk away rather than sign up to a bad deal.

I mean, I kind of want to see this "plan", but only after I've sold my house and made full preparations for relocating to NZ.

Here is the cartoon accompanying the article:

# ¿ May 6, 2017 11:24

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

forkboy84 posted:

Are there? I mean, there's plenty of traditions on the left that aren't rooted in Marxism, but not in socialism? Keynesianism I guess. What are all these other examples?

Social liberalism more generally - Keynesianism provided the framework of the economic policy of 1930s-1970s social liberalism, but was far from the entirety of it.

# ¿ May 6, 2017 15:12

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

icantfindaname posted:

liberalism is not leftism, sorry friend. nice try though

Social liberals introduced old age pensions, universal unemployment and health insurance, and large-scale council house building. They also wrote the blueprint for the postwar welfare state and the economic theories that held sway during the golden years of postwar social democracy. Those seem like fairly solid left wing contributions to me.

# ¿ May 6, 2017 15:21

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

e: nvm, misread

to cover for misreading big scary monsters' post, i will quickly say that the doctors promise is dumb but its badness pales in comparison to the one about "ensuring noone needs to sell their home to pay for care" - the former is merely undeliverable, whereas the latter is a further step towards entrenching the importance of inherited wealth

LemonDrizzle fucked around with this message at 00:38 on May 7, 2017

# ¿ May 7, 2017 00:35

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/861167745559392256

# ¿ May 7, 2017 12:12

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# ¿ May 2, 2024 11:51

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/861511283614646272

This has a notable practical upshot for the Tories: because all their advertising is focused so heavily on May and the national party rather than individual candidates, they can spend very lavishly in target constituencies without running foul of electoral law - the per-constituency spending limits only apply to campaigns for the local candidate rather than the party as a whole. So I guess they'll keep on buying massive wraparound ad spreads like this in local papers:

# ¿ May 8, 2017 10:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT May 2017: Weak and Wobbly vs. Old and Knobbly

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