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Will Jon Jones ever fight in the UFC again?
This poll is closed.
Yes 59 56.73%
No 45 43.27%
Total: 104 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin
UFC May: GSP's Mass, Huffing rear end Gas.

Last month's thread is here. We were thoroughly entertained by some serious brokebrain posting last month where one poster in particular decided the hill he would die on was "Chael Sonnen was totally kicking the poo poo out of Jon Jones until Jones got lucky". Work Friend Keven gave us some excellent ideas about how he would run the best MMA promotion from the best of all timelines and all sorts of goons participated in what is possibly the dumbest conversation ever which was started with speculation from Snowman_McK MM could beat Anderson Silva. The month was rounded out with confirmation that all goons consider jumping knee KOs to be among the finest ways for a fight to end.


April was a solid month of fights.

Starting us off was UFC 210 from Buffalo, New York on the 8th of the month. The rematch between Daniel Cormier and Anthony Johnson for the Light Heavyweight championship was essentially a carbon copy of their first fight, with the middle five minutes taken out. Cormier showed how phenomenal his ability to soak punishment is after taking a shin kick from Johnson flush on the nose, weathering the storm and then getting Johnson down in the second for the rear-naked choke victory. The most stunning think about that fight was the retirement of Johnson immediately after, with the #2 ranked Light Heavyweight announcing he had a major career change lined up that he couldn't talk about. UFC 210 also brought us Chris Weidman playing the "I'm not touching the ground, I'm not touching the ground" with Dutch-Armenian kickboxing savant Gegard Mousasi, who kneed some sense into him. After what could generously be described as a clusterfuck in the octagon, the referee stopped the fight after Weidman confirmed he didn't know what month it was. As the strike was determined to be legal, Weidman was handed his third TKO loss in a row, a stunning fall from being 13-0 and the defending Middleweight champion.

Other fun fights from 210 were Charles Oliveira getting a rear-naked choke victory over Will Brooks, and Gregor Gillespie being told by someone "poo poo we only have a few minutes of the Fight Pass prelims left, better wind this poo poo up!" and then knocking Andrew Holbrook out in 21 seconds. Another highlight from UFC 210 was Dana White teeing off on some of Floyd Mayweather's entourage, telling them to go gently caress themselves among other things, after they were talking to the media about the proposed Mayweather-MacGregor fight.

The next week brought us UFC on Fox: Johnson vs. Reis. Demetrious Johnson defended his Flyweight championship against Wilson Reis. Reis, a decorated, never-submitted BJJ expert, was thoroughly schooled by Johnson, who beat him down, styled all over him and then armbarred him with 11 seconds left in the third. This fight saw Johnson equal Anderson Silva's all-time title defense record at ten. Robert Whittaker surprised a lot of people with a first-round TKO of Ronaldo Souza, and is now the highest-ranked Australian UFC fighter, claiming the #3 position in the Middleweight rankings.

A fight not to miss from this card was the Tim Elliott-Louis Smolka bout, with the two putting on an incredibly good grappling show and claiming Fight of the Night. Making his UFC debut, Quebecois Bantamweight prospect Tom Duquesnoy scored a TKO victory with elbows and punches over Patrick Williams early in the second, and Rose Namajunas derailed the "Karate Hottie" train with a rear-naked choke victory over Michelle Waterson.

The final event of the month was UFC Fight Night: Swanson vs. Lobov, which saw the unranked Artem Lobov taking on the 4th-ranked Cub Swanson, who was fresh off his Fight of the Year performance against Doo Ho Choi in December. This fight, contrary to all expectations, wasn't dreadful. Lobov was outgunned for the majority of it but showed some moments of form, while Swanson seemed to respect his opponent more than a lot of people felt he deserved. The bout took Fight of the Night honours, which wasn't as much of an indictment on the rest of the card as it seems. Other excellent fights on this card included Brandon Moreno from TUF choking out Dustin Ortiz, and Mike Perry taking Jake Ellenberger's soul with a standing elbow, then celebrating in front of the lifeless body of his opponent by breakdancing.

http://i.imgur.com/WZDHhHp.mp4
http://i.imgur.com/iKmfo27.mp4

UFC events in May

There are only two events scheduled for May. The 13th of the month brings us UFC 211, which will see Stipe Miocic attempt to defend his Heavyweight championship against Junior dos Santos. Miocic is aiming to equal the Heavyweight defense record which currently stands at the lofty number of two. The two last fought in December 2014, with dos Santos winning a close decision, the bout earning both men a $50,000 bonus for Fight of the Night. The second last fight on the card takes us from the heaviest competitors in the promotion to the lightest, with Jéssica Andrade looking to dethrone Joanna Jędrzejczyk and take the latter's Women's Strawweight championship. The rest of the card is very stacked, with Demian Maia taking on Jorge Masvidal at Welterweight, Frankie Edgar vs. Yair Rodríguez at Featherweight and Eddie Alvarez vs. Dustin Poirier at Lightweight headlining the FX preliminary card.

The month will end with UFC Fight Night: Gustafsson vs. Teixeira on the 28th, live from Stockholm, which is a somewhat less star studded card. Alexander Gustaffson is 2-3 in his last five, and Glover Teixeira was recently knocked out in 13 seconds by a retiree. The undercard features a Light Heavyweight fight between two real word salad competitors with Volkan Oezdemir taking on Misha Cirkunov.

UFC News

The vast majority of the news from this month is anything but. Speculation runs rampant with who the next opponent will be for Tyron Woodley (Nick Diaz? Conor MacGregor?) and Tony Ferguson (Conor? Nate Diaz?). Woodley confirmed he is in camp and aiming for a UFC 213 title defense at the marquee event of International Fight Week.



Your Current Champions

Men's Heavyweight Champion - Stipe Miocic (18-2)
Stipe Miocic won the Heavyweight title in May of 2016, stopping Fabricio Verdum in front of his countrymen in a single round. He backed this feat up with anotehr first-round stoppage of the most decorated Heavyweight of all time, Alistair Overeem, in Miocic's home town of Cleveland in September. It was considered that the winner of the fight between Werdum and Cain Velasquez at UFC 207, a rematch of the fight where Werdum took Velasquez' belt from him in 2015, would be Miocic's next opponent, but Velasquez was forced out of this bout with yet another leg injury. Miocic will defend his belt against Junior dos Santos at UFC 211 this month, where he will seek to avenge his Fight of the Night loss from late 2014.


Men's Light Heavyweight Champion - Daniel Cormier (20-1)
Daniel Cormier won the belt initiall in May of 2015, winning against the heavy-hitting Anthony Johnson by rear-nake choke in the third round. Cormier defended his belt against Alexander Gustaffson in October of 2015 in a split decision. A planned rematch against Jon Jones was scheduled for UFC 200, which was called off after Jones tested positive for banned substances. Cormier went on to fight Anderson Silva in a non-title bout on three days' notice. Cormier was slated to fight Anthony Johnson in a rematch for the belt in December, a match which did not took place due to Cormier suffering a groin adductor injury. The bout took place at UFC 210 in April, with Cormier defending the belt in under two rounds and Johnson riding off into the sunset with a surprise retirement.


Men's Middleweight Champion - Michael Bisping (37-7)
Bisping had a fairytale year in 2016, first of all beating the greatest MMA striker of all time Anderson Silva in front of his hometown crowd of Manchester in February. Then, on 17 days notice, he stepped up to fight Luke Rockhold for the Middleweight Championship in June at UFC 199. Bisping joked about not having the regular time to get his cardio ready, meaning he would have to knock Rockhold out in the first round, then against the expectations of everyone everwhere, including his own son, he did exactly that. He capped off his year with a successful defense against Dan Henderson, putting the ghosts of UFC 100 to rest. It had been widely considered that his next defense will be against Yoel Romero, a man Bisping considers to be "the biggest cheating motherfucker in the whole sport"1, however with the announcement in March of the return of GSP, the UFC are talking up the soft-spoken Canadian as Bisping's next defense.


Men's Welterweight Champion - Tyron Woodley (16-3-1)
Woodley was promised a title shot against the Welterweight champion 17 months before the fight took place. After Robbie Lawler put in Fight Of The Year performances against Rory MacDonald in July 2015 and Carlos Condit in January 2016, Woodley went into their fight in July of 2016 as a significant underdog. This meant nothing, with Lawler going down to strikes in the first round. Woodley defended his belt against Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson, putting on an incredible fight that ended in a majority draw at UFC 205 in New York in November 2016. A rematch for this fight was held in March month at UFC 209, and it sucked out loud. Woodley has announced he is currently in camp aiming at a UFC 213 return, with no opponent announced.


Men's Lightweight Champion - Conor MacGregor (21-3)
After punching his way to the Featherweight Championship in December 2015, McGregor was slated to fight Rafael dos Anjos for the Lightweight Championship in March of 2015. With dos Anjos pulling out of this with a broken foot sustained in sparring, Nate Diaz took the fight on 9 days' notice, winning handily in the second round with a rear-naked choke against a gassed McGregor. A rematch of this fight was held in August 2016, with McGregor fighting with a much more conservative, patient style, taking the fight by majority decision. A "superfight" was scheduled for UFC 205 in November 2015, with McGregor taking on Lightweight champion Eddie Alvarez. This fight was one-sided with McGregor boxing Alvarez to a standstill in the second round, after taking the first round 10-8. McGregor would go on to have the Featherweight title stripped off him in December 2016, to make way for an Interim championship to be created. MacGregor's next opponent would have been the winner of Khabib Nurmagomedov vs. Tony Ferguson from UFC 209 in March, however due to Khabib being a poo poo oval office in general, that fight never took place. Conor is once again talking up a boxing match against Floyd Mayweather which I can't imagine giving less of a poo poo about.


Men's Featherweight Champion - Jose Aldo Jr. (26-2)
Aldo spent the better part of a decade being an unstoppable force at Featherweight; first with the WEC where he won the title in November 2009, then in the UFC after the former was absorbed by them. This run was derailed by Conor McGregor in December 2015, where Aldo was knocked into unconsciousness 13 seconds into the first round. An opportunity came Aldo's way in July of 2016, with an Interim Championship fight against Frankie Edgar at UFC 200 seeing Aldo regaining gold again. With McGregor being stripped of the Featherweight Championship before UFC 206, and Max Holloway winning the Interim title at that event, Aldo was promoted to Featherweight Champion. These belts are due to be unified at UFC 212 in early June.


Men's Interim Featherweight Champion - Max Holloway (17-3)
Holloway put together a 9-fight win streak, with several Performance of the Night bonuses, before answering the call to contend for the Interim Featherweight Championship at UFC 206 in December 2016. Taking out Anthony Pettis with a body kick and punches late in the third round, he has set himself up for a bout against Jose Aldo at UFC 212 in early June.


Men's Bantamweight Champion - Cody Garbrandt (11-0)
After amassing a professional record of 5-0 in the minor leagues, Garbrandt was able to parley this into a UFC contract in January 2015. He then went on to win 5 fights in a row in the UFC, including going from unranked at Bantamweight at the start of 2016 into championship contention at the end. He took on Dominick Cruz for the title at UFC 207 in late December, and in contrast to analysis from a variety of sources, took out Cruz in a unanimous decision. Garbrandt is scheduled to take on TJ Dillashaw at UFC 213 in July, capping off the current season of The Ultimate Fighter.


Men's Flyweight Champion - Demetrious Johnson (26-2-1)
After winning the Flyweight Championship in September 2012 in a split decision against Joseph Benevidez, Johnson has amassed a 9-fight streak against the best that the division has had to offer. He has been so dominant that the UFC held an entire Ultimate Figher tournament to find his next challenger. The culmination of this was that Tim Elliott came back out of the MMA wilderness to lose a competitive match against Johnson in early December 2016. Johnson easily defended his title against Wilson Reis in April, tying the all-time title defense record held by Anderson Silva.


Women's Featherweight Champion - Germaine de Randamie(7-3)
In order to answer a question a grand total of about seven people outside Brazil were asking, the UFC set up a fight between Holly Holm and Germaine de Randamie for UFC 208 in February of this year. With de Randamie winning in contentious fashion, and Holm unsuccessfully appealing the outcome, the new champion is probably going to defend it against Cristiane Justino Venâncio aka Cyborg at some point in time in the future. Assuming Cyborg can keep off the drugs, or that anyone cares.


Women's Bantamweight Champion - Amanda Nunes (14-4)
Nunes headlined UFC 200 in July of 2016, putting a vicious beating on Miesha Tate and securing a rear-nake choke victory in a little over three minutes. She backed this up with a brutal 48-second TKO victory against former Women's Bantamweight Champion and WMMA pioneer Rounda Rousey in late December 2016. Nunes is currently slated to take on Valentina Shevchenko in a rematch of their March 2016 fight, with no concrete date set.


Women's Strawweight Champion - Joanna Jędrzejczyk (13-0)
After winning the Women's Strawweight Championship against the one-dimensional Carla Esparza in March 2015, Jędrzejczyk has defended her title four times. Most recent of these was against her Polish countrywoman Karolina Kowalkiewicz at UFC 205 in November 2016. Jędrzejczyk will defend her belt against Jessica Andrade at UFC 211 this month.

Other poo poo

Thanks very much to LobsterMobster for putting together the awards thread for last year:

2016 Rowdy Ringsports MMA Awards - RESULTS THREAD!.

Thanks also go to LobsterMobster for putting together both iterations of the UFC Fightpass Thread

UFC Fight Pass Playlists and Collections

The NEW UFC Fight Pass Collection Thread


Go to the MMA's Best and Worst of the Year, 2017 thread to keep up with what has been considered by your fellow PSP-MMA posters as the best (and worst) of the UFC.

More thanks go out to Unfunny Poster for putting together a new UFC Fight Pass Thread - Earning Your 3rd Degree Blackbelt In MMA Posting. This thread is being updated approximately every week with information on new and upcoming additions to the streaming service, and could be good for general banter about old fights and watching Robbie Lawler (c) vs. Rory MacDonald II for the Welterweight Championship. Seriously go watch that fight if you somehow haven't.



As usual, let me know where I hosed something up, and you too could win the No-Prize!

Memento fucked around with this message at 12:35 on May 1, 2017

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Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Great OP but is it just me or are the tables broken thanks to that Perry breakdancing gif?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Checking out Lawler/MacDonald now, man Fight Pass is pretty cool.

Unfunny Poster posted:

Great OP but is it just me or are the tables broken thanks to that Perry breakdancing gif?

It seems okay to me :shrug:

Memento
Aug 25, 2009


Bleak Gremlin

Unfunny Poster posted:

Great OP but is it just me or are the tables broken thanks to that Perry breakdancing gif?

That'll learn me to trust gfycat, it looked alright on my 1080 monitor but I checked it on my laptop and it sucked. I transferred them to imgur, should be good now.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Good God the blood in Lawler/MacDonald :stare:

Hell of a fight

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man


Jerusalem posted:

Good God the blood in Lawler/MacDonald :stare:

Hell of a fight

It's so insanely good that I put it next to other Fight of the Year winners and say "not in the same league."

handsome only face
Apr 22, 2010

Cockroach went out of the room in anger. And roach's go to empty room...

Cockroache's Anarchist



Soothing Vapors
Mar 26, 2006

Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

would pay good money to see them touch wangs

evobatman
Jul 30, 2006

it means nothing, but says everything!
Pillbug
A month with Joanna fighting is a good month.

Gay Horney
Feb 10, 2013

by Reene
I'm going to post "sleepy miocic" when jds knocks him out

Kilometers Davis
Jul 9, 2007

They begin again

It always fucks me up how good Stipe is. If he isn't already then assuming he gets past JDS he'll have to be considered one of the greatest heavyweights ever. Add on the likely future fights vs Velazquez, Werdum. If he doesn't hit a bad streak of health issues the guy seems like he's got quite a few years in him.

Tezcatlipoca
Sep 18, 2009
He also gets dropped every fight so I could see him getting knocked out by any of the other heavyweights and never contending again.

Kilometers Davis
Jul 9, 2007

They begin again

Tezcatlipoca posted:

He also gets dropped every fight so I could see him getting knocked out by any of the other heavyweights and never contending again.

While that's true he has been showing crazy power and accuracy light on his feet and not a lot of guys at hw have to think about that a lot. A guy like Derrick Lewis (<3) wouldn't have anything for him.

Triticum Guzzler
Jun 16, 2002
i feel like stipe is going to get the record for title defenses at heavyweight and i also feel like he's not that good

Gay Horney
Feb 10, 2013

by Reene
Stipe got knocked out cold against Reem and collapsed like a ton of bricks but woke back up and loving caught himself as he was falling. Pretty sick

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer
i feel like stipe has a weird muppet voice and is good at fighting.

Bluedeanie
Jul 20, 2008

It's no longer a blue world, Max. Where could we go?



Triticum Guzzler posted:

i feel like stipe is going to get the record for title defenses at heavyweight and i also feel like he's not that good

It's easy to feel that way when you remember the Struve and Gonzaga fights (the latter of which I tragically witnessed live) but I do think he is very good. Source: every fight he has had since Gonzaga

tesilential
Nov 22, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
I remember watching the first round of Stipe v JDS 1 and being really impressed that Stipe was smart enough to straight up jack Cain's gameplan for JDS. Then Stipe slowed down and didn't do enough to win the latter rounds. Either way he's the rare heavyweight who has coordination approaching that of a normal human and as such he has gone very far and may end up the GOAT.

Shirkelton
Apr 6, 2009

I'm not loyal to anything, General... except the dream.

Gay Horney posted:

Stipe got knocked out cold against Reem and collapsed like a ton of bricks but woke back up and loving caught himself as he was falling. Pretty sick

That moment is insanely good because he literally runs after Overeem, throwing wild headkicks and punches along the fence, to try and catch him as Alistair just loving sprints away, and it would be entirely apropos for Stipe to get knocked out the same way he sparked Werdum, but then they reset in the centre and Stipe just kind of shuffles slowly towards him with his hands down and walks into a punch.

That fight is loving insane.

Triticum Guzzler
Jun 16, 2002

Bluedeanie posted:

It's easy to feel that way when you remember the Struve and Gonzaga fights (the latter of which I tragically witnessed live) but I do think he is very good. Source: every fight he has had since Gonzaga

i think he's very good, i just don't get the feeling like looking at say cain (rip) that this guy is head and shoulders above everyone. i also think the struve loss was bs and he got poked in the eye but i have never bothered to go back and watch it to see if that's true.

Fat Twitter Man
Jan 24, 2007

by R. Guyovich

Triticum Guzzler posted:

i think he's very good, i just don't get the feeling like looking at say cain (rip) that this guy is head and shoulders above everyone. i also think the struve loss was bs and he got poked in the eye but i have never bothered to go back and watch it to see if that's true.

He was losing the entire fight up to that point. It's just surreal to watch that fight now and see how good Struve looked and how bad Stipe looked, and the directions their careers have gone in since.

Kilometers Davis
Jul 9, 2007

They begin again

I rate Stipe so high because of how weirdly plain his dominance is. He doesn't give me that Cain thing that you mentioned, but when I look back on his fights they always impress me even more than they did initially. He's never going to be as exciting as a Silva matrix move reel or have that Brock Lesnar bulldozer appeal, his skills are subtle and a little hard to pin down. And don't get me wrong I'm anything but a Stipe fart huffer, I was dying for Reem to destroy him. After that fight I revisited some of his older ones and came away thinking he's going to be good for a while. At worst he'll likely age into a strongdad who brutally KOs a mid level hw once a year.

Tezcatlipoca
Sep 18, 2009

Triticum Guzzler posted:

i think he's very good, i just don't get the feeling like looking at say cain (rip) that this guy is head and shoulders above everyone. i also think the struve loss was bs and he got poked in the eye but i have never bothered to go back and watch it to see if that's true.

Iirc he slips right before Struve punches him but I may be thinking of the hundreds of other times that's happened.

Skip My Posts
Aug 15, 2005

by FactsAreUseless
Yeah I remember him slipping and immediately getting dropped after his eye gets poked

Bundt Cake
Aug 17, 2003
;(

Kilometers Davis posted:

I rate Stipe so high because of how weirdly plain his dominance is. He doesn't give me that Cain thing that you mentioned, but when I look back on his fights they always impress me even more than they did initially. He's never going to be as exciting as a Silva matrix move reel or have that Brock Lesnar bulldozer appeal, his skills are subtle and a little hard to pin down. And don't get me wrong I'm anything but a Stipe fart huffer, I was dying for Reem to destroy him. After that fight I revisited some of his older ones and came away thinking he's going to be good for a while. At worst he'll likely age into a strongdad who brutally KOs a mid level hw once a year.

good poiints... Stipe is really good and has become a pretty sick KO artist

Bundt Cake
Aug 17, 2003
;(
Also come back drinking farts guy

Dirt Road Junglist
Oct 8, 2010

We will be cruel
And through our cruelty
They will know who we are

I have to check for the tattoo to know which one is which sometimes.

Boco_T
Mar 12, 2003

la calaca tilica y flaca
the record for heavyweight title defenses is 2

El Roncho
Oct 15, 2006

I'm not necessarily proud of this but I'm gonna leave it here anyways.

DirtRoadJunglist posted:

I have to check for the tattoo to know which one is which sometimes.

Just think of Bisping as the little one with the gimpy eye. Do it in a WC Fields voice. See?

Work Friend Keven
Oct 24, 2015

I'M A BIG STUPID IDIOT WHO GETS TRIGGERED FROM THE WORDS SPORTS BALL AND HAS SHIT OPINIONS ABOUT CARD GAMES. ALSO I SAID I WAS GOING TO QUIT HEARTHSTONE OUT OF SPITE OF A TAIWANESE WINNING THE CHAMPIONSHIP SO REPORT ME IF YOU SEE ME POST IN A HS THREAD
Stipes only exceptional skill is his ability to move like a good LHW for a round to a round and a half, iirc.

Work Friend Keven
Oct 24, 2015

I'M A BIG STUPID IDIOT WHO GETS TRIGGERED FROM THE WORDS SPORTS BALL AND HAS SHIT OPINIONS ABOUT CARD GAMES. ALSO I SAID I WAS GOING TO QUIT HEARTHSTONE OUT OF SPITE OF A TAIWANESE WINNING THE CHAMPIONSHIP SO REPORT ME IF YOU SEE ME POST IN A HS THREAD
He doesn't gas after that, he just transitions to heavyweight speed.

chaleski
Apr 25, 2014

https://mobile.twitter.com/JonnyBones/status/858584815574040576

https://mobile.twitter.com/JonnyBones/status/858621572327788544

Tezcatlipoca
Sep 18, 2009

Work Friend Keven posted:

Stipes only exceptional skill is his ability to move like a good LHW for a round to a round and a half, iirc.

His hands are accurate and fast for heavyweight.

Bundt Cake
Aug 17, 2003
;(

JBJ is getting out of control now that FD is gone

Work Friend Keven
Oct 24, 2015

I'M A BIG STUPID IDIOT WHO GETS TRIGGERED FROM THE WORDS SPORTS BALL AND HAS SHIT OPINIONS ABOUT CARD GAMES. ALSO I SAID I WAS GOING TO QUIT HEARTHSTONE OUT OF SPITE OF A TAIWANESE WINNING THE CHAMPIONSHIP SO REPORT ME IF YOU SEE ME POST IN A HS THREAD
Gay innuendo is the best base for mma.

tesilential
Nov 22, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
if it's worth posting, someone post the content of the tweet

Nierbo
Dec 5, 2010

sup brah?

Stealth Tiger
Nov 14, 2009

I'm the 4,250 Twitter users who liked popping a man in the mouth, but could not be brought to endorse taking a man's cherry.

Digital Jedi
May 28, 2007

Fallen Rib

Boco_T posted:

the record for heavyweight title defenses is 2

If Stipe wins against JDS he will join the elite ranks of Couture, Sylvia, Lesnar (if you count interim) and Cain as being the 5th person to successfully defend the belt twice.

Edit: vvv Correct I did cause I don't know how to read wikipedia.

Digital Jedi fucked around with this message at 22:30 on May 1, 2017

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Bluedeanie
Jul 20, 2008

It's no longer a blue world, Max. Where could we go?



Digital Jedi posted:

If Stipe wins against JDS he will join the elite ranks of Couture, Lesnar (if you count interim) and Cain as being the 4th person to successfully defend the belt twice.

You're forgetting the biggest name of them all on that list, Tim Sylvia

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