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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:no my argument is that printing a bunch of the worlds reserve currency and introducing it into super high-velocity circulation is going to wreck the global economy for some time ubi doesn't require printing a bunch of money though so that's a weird argument to make
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May 6, 2017 14:51
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SpaceGoku posted:ubi doesn't require printing a bunch of money though so that's a weird argument to make yeah good thing this argument stands even if we don't print any new money for ubi then
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May 6, 2017 14:57
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:yeah good thing this argument stands even if we don't print any new money for ubi then this isn't really a correct assumption though again, in 2009 the US was at 10% unemployment, now it's at 4.4% in five years it went from 10% to 5.5% this is essentially the same effect as injecting a large amount of spendable money into the economy that would happen with a gradual implementation of ubi the global economy has not crashed
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May 6, 2017 15:05
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Not a Step posted:I mean yeah for something like factory work where the lines never stop and you just hire another shift's worth of workers, but for basically everything else declaring a 30 hour work week doesn't really *do* much. More time off is nice though, I guess. it definitely would lead to more people hired but i see your point so let's drop the week to 20 hours
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May 6, 2017 15:51
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Yeah its pretty ironic that replacing most of the financial safety net with a UBI would actually let us hew far more closely to free market systems and in a way that benefits nearly everyone. I have no joke seen libertarians arguing for UBI on that principle
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May 6, 2017 16:08
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the market can't be truly free if there is coercion bing bing bong bong so simple
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May 6, 2017 16:15
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ubi could probably work real good for states that do not control a global reserve currency and also really need inflation like japan
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May 6, 2017 16:16
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Well, world, we secretly implemented some economic policy 8 years ago. Sorry you had no warning to adjust your investments.
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May 6, 2017 16:37
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Rushi posted:I feel this kind of thing quickly turns into people working in military production lines, and politicians needing reasons to keep the military production lines producing. americas already like that so why not gimme a few bucks so i can eat too!!!!
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May 6, 2017 16:48
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R. Guyovich posted:it definitely would lead to more people hired but i see your point so let's drop the week to 20 hours  the 20-30 hour work week w/ optional overtime gimme dat fair wage
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May 6, 2017 17:22
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:ubi could probably work real good for states that do not control a global reserve currency and also really need inflation like japan The Japanese desperately need a raise because of the insane hours they work
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May 6, 2017 18:04
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Also so they can maybe stop working those hours and remember what a functional work life balance is like.
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May 6, 2017 18:05
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GlyphGryph posted:Yeah its pretty ironic that replacing most of the financial safety net with a UBI would actually let us hew far more closely to free market systems and in a way that benefits nearly everyone. To qualify myself for this thread, economically I'm notably right of center especially for SA, but in my view it's a pretty simple logical line. If someone cannot participate in the free market, the free market is diminished and by definition does not work as well. A market functions as a collective brain for a society, which is why it's so awesome. Doesn't matter if I don't know how to make an awesome chair, as long as someone's in the market doing it for a reasonable price I can have an awesome chair just fine. If UBI gets more people participating in the market at a higher level (by, for example, making beer or designing landscapes instead of cleaning houses and mowing lawns), then the market will benefit and become better. It'd be nice to see some real data on the matter, though. It's really nice to think this is the case but nothing's reliable until it has data, and even then it's probably not completely right.
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May 6, 2017 19:02
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:everybody with half a brain in eurasia keeps their savings in dollars and erasing their money would definitely not be a massive boon to the developing world at all and would probably lead to a bunch of people dying but hey at least it would get rid of your student debt, america first!!! i'm not worried about erasing the wealth of the Russian mafia and Chinese millionaires
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May 6, 2017 19:40
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Main Paineframe posted:i'm not worried about erasing the wealth of the Russian mafia and Chinese millionaires Honestly, it's a bonus benefit.
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May 6, 2017 20:32
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:if the united states implemented UBI it would lead to a global economic crisis so massive that people would beg for a return to the good times of 2009 as the dollar, the worlds reserve currency, would inflate to poo poo and crash everybody's savings almost every single economist worth a drat thinks UBI would be a huge boon for the economy you moron
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May 6, 2017 20:37
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truly people having disposable income to spend will spell the death for the western economy
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May 6, 2017 20:40
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Bulgogi Hoagie posted:no my argument is that printing a bunch of the worlds reserve currency and introducing it into super high-velocity circulation is going to wreck the global economy for some time Dunno, add UBI and raise the interest rate or something figure it out dude.
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May 6, 2017 20:39
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people having no money to spend on goods = insanely good for a consumer based economy people having money to spend on goods = post-collapse soviet union
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May 6, 2017 20:40
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UBI, but for citizens only.
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May 6, 2017 21:06
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including citizens in canada k thx
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May 6, 2017 21:05
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in theory i should get canada's UBI and america's UBI according to my calculations so plz show me the money
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May 6, 2017 21:06
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Baloogan posted:in theory i should get canada's UBI and america's UBI according to my calculations so plz show me the money Nah, duel citizens get taxed twice because they're punk bitches.
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May 6, 2017 22:01
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Venom Snake posted:almost every single economist worth a drat thinks UBI would be a huge boon for the economy you moron in another universe maybe
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May 6, 2017 22:01
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quote:A recent survey of economists at leading institutions purports to show that 58% oppose a universal basic income, while only 2% support it. However, the survey asked specifically about a UBI that replaces all other social insurance programs and is paid only to adults over 21. Many opposed these qualifications, not UBI itself. quote:Richard Schmalensee (MIT) said, “A properly designed negative income tax could be part of a better policy, but replacing everything is a bad idea.” Similarly, Eric Maskin (Harvard) replied, “A minimum income makes sense, but not at the cost of eliminating Social Security and Medicare.” And Christopher Udry (Yale) opined that UBI could work if “coupled with universal health care and tax reform … but we are far from that.” quote:For instance, the Nobel Laureate Angus Deaton voted “Disagree”, despite having recently come out in favor of “basic income grants”. Even distinguished MIT Professor Abhijit Banerjee — who is an advisor for GiveDirectly’s basic income pilot and recently wrote a compelling case for UBI in The Indian Express — voted “Uncertain”. etc etc
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May 6, 2017 22:13
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Reading the article before posting it as a compelling argument might have been a smart move, but I get being so frothing at the mouth to poo poo on the low income gave you an irrestible sense of urgency.
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May 6, 2017 23:00
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Baloogan posted:UBI, but for citizens only. hmmm, socialism but only for those in certain nations within an existing state....there must be a way to abbreviate this
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May 6, 2017 23:35
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Venom Snake posted:almost every single economist worth a drat thinks UBI would be a huge boon for the economy you moron i'd be very interested to read these papers if you have access to them
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May 6, 2017 23:35
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Venom Snake posted:almost every single economist worth a drat thinks UBI would be a huge boon for the economy you moron
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May 7, 2017 00:08
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ubi doesn't lead to inflation, that's just bullshit.
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May 7, 2017 00:20
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rudatron posted:ubi doesn't lead to inflation, that's just bullshit. Well the reason folks say that is we have a simultaneous budget/revenue problem here in the U.S. that'd necessitate debt which would in turn lead to inflation. But if we fixed our tax brackets, closed our investment loopholes, and stopped spending the highest percentage in the world of our enormous budget on useless defense it'd be fine.
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May 7, 2017 00:22
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Hi everyone I'm the guy who thinks a policy whose result is equivalent to a 25% increase in U.S. mean household income would lead immediately to mad max. Please take me seriously.
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May 7, 2017 00:50
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gat drat that's a great self own
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May 7, 2017 01:14
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rudatron posted:ubi doesn't lead to inflation, that's just bullshit. no but you see if you give everyone $15 minimum wage the price of a hamburger at mcdonalds will go up to $10
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May 7, 2017 01:33
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Agnostalgia posted:Hi everyone I'm the guy who thinks a policy whose result is equivalent to a 25% increase in U.S. mean household income would lead immediately to mad max. Please take me seriously. okay but I need you to take me seriously and not just laugh when I take my shirt off
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May 7, 2017 03:24
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Agnostalgia posted:Hi everyone I'm the guy who thinks a policy whose result is equivalent to a 25% increase in U.S. mean household income would lead immediately to mad max. Please take me seriously.
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May 7, 2017 05:31
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Jeb! Repetition posted:Well the reason folks say that is we have a simultaneous budget/revenue problem here in the U.S. that'd necessitate debt which would in turn lead to inflation. But if we fixed our tax brackets, closed our investment loopholes, and stopped spending the highest percentage in the world of our enormous budget on useless defense it'd be fine. "inflation!!!" just happens to be the boogeyman that bulgogi has landed on, but he could just have easily landed 'laziness!!' or 'incentive to succeed!!' - they all have exactly the same empirical basis (ie none).
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May 7, 2017 05:36
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rudatron posted:"inflation!!!" just happens to be the boogeyman that bulgogi has landed on, but he could just have easily landed 'laziness!!' or 'incentive to succeed!!' - they all have exactly the same empirical basis (ie none).
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May 7, 2017 06:37
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If someone is earning minimum wage and suddenly is taking home double minimum wage, they will buy double the meals, double the attire, double the abodes. Since these are all limited resources, and consumption doubles, prices must also double. -noted moron
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May 7, 2017 06:53
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claiming that inflation negatively impacts income is one of their disingenuous classics too
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May 7, 2017 06:57
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