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H.P. Hovercraft
Jan 12, 2004

one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse
Slippery Tilde
the best job guarantee program is compulsory military service

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Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

the best job guarantee program is compulsory military service

double as good if they let you keep your assault rifle after the end of your tour

because what we need in this country is more guns

SHY NUDIST GRRL
Feb 15, 2011

Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

whomupclicklike posted:

gently caress this "Protestant work ethic" horseshit I am Catholic and I am going to spend my day lighting really tall candles and eating wafers and I WILL be compensated

Lol hell yeah

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

the best job guarantee program is compulsory military service

I know a few basket cases who ended up pretty cool after the military forced them to socialize so yeah I agree

Agnostalgia
Dec 22, 2009

Larry Parrish posted:

I know a few basket cases who ended up pretty cool after the military forced them to socialize so yeah I agree

eh for every one of those there's three who became authoritarian shitheads post service.

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

the only argument against ubi that has any traction is that bundling a patchwork quilt of social programs into one makes it easier to cut but the benefits outweigh the drawbacks imo

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

Agnostalgia posted:

eh for every one of those there's three who became authoritarian shitheads post service.

Socialization is a dangerous thing.

Cant run with a bad crowd if you never run with a crowd.

got any sevens
Feb 9, 2013

by Cyrano4747

GlyphGryph posted:

Socialization is a dangerous thing.

Cant run with a bad crowd if you never run with a crowd.

i agree, we need more unabombers

Nix Panicus
Feb 25, 2007

Agnostalgia posted:

eh for every one of those there's three who became authoritarian shitheads post service.

They were probably authoritarian shitheads going in though.

Everyone I knew came out of the Navy with less respect for authority and regulations because it was readily apparent how uninformed the people who were supposed to be in charge were and how restrictive the regulations were because they had to account for idiots. It was also an introduction to favoritism, cliques, and promotion through attrition rather than merit that shook a lot of my coworkers.

Then again, I was a technician. Maybe its different if you were in a position to get shot at and/or shoot someone.

Streak
May 16, 2004

by Nyc_Tattoo
lmao why the gently caress would you pay someone to do work that might not even be needed instead of just giving them the money at that point. like automation and technology have already reduced the amount of generalized "work" that needs to be done to keep society operating normally and this will only continue in the future. we don't need to pay people to dig holes and fill them back up for 8 hours a day, just give them the loving money and let them live a modest yet liberated life.

also, kill the rich.

Hilario Baldness
Feb 10, 2005

:buddy:



Grimey Drawer
Why not... both?

Lindsey O. Graham
Dec 31, 2016

"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."

- The Chief

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Streak posted:

lmao why the gently caress would you pay someone to do work that might not even be needed instead of just giving them the money at that point. like automation and technology have already reduced the amount of generalized "work" that needs to be done to keep society operating normally and this will only continue in the future. we don't need to pay people to dig holes and fill them back up for 8 hours a day, just give them the loving money and let them live a modest yet liberated life.

also, kill the rich.

There was a lot of stuff in my military job that pretty much existed just to keep me busy which was a real pain in the rear end

Lindsey O. Graham
Dec 31, 2016

"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."

- The Chief

Larry Parrish posted:

There was a lot of stuff in my military job that pretty much existed just to keep me busy which was a real pain in the rear end

that was for exercise, so you stayed fit at all times in case of sudden war

what op is describing is something far, far, more ludicrous, and lacking in basic reason

so it will happen in this timeline without a doubt :doh:

SHY NUDIST GRRL
Feb 15, 2011

Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

R. Guyovich posted:

the only argument against ubi that has any traction is that bundling a patchwork quilt of social programs into one makes it easier to cut but the benefits outweigh the drawbacks imo

On a similar note I figured the bundling could appeal to small government doofuses

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

got any sevens posted:

i agree, we need more unabombers

unabomber made the mistake of socializing with government agents that got him into drugs but didnt tell him about it.

Talk about falling in with a bad crowd!

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

R. Guyovich posted:

the only argument against ubi that has any traction is that bundling a patchwork quilt of social programs into one makes it easier to cut but the benefits outweigh the drawbacks imo

lol there is basically no precedent for social support programs ever going away and the one currently on the chopping block right now does not affect the entirety of the professional class and the specter of its removal is making people threaten riots and get thrown out of townhalls for getting aggressive with representatives

globally the only reason a large scale social welfare project has ever been removed is because the government collapses/goes bankrupt because of it (see: greece, any communist bloc country)

all data suggests that trying to revoke basic income or even reduce it in any significant way after it's been the law of the land for ~5 years would probably result in the ringleader getting literally murdered. it would have to bring the entire government down.

byob historian
Nov 5, 2008

I'm an animal abusing piece of shit! I deliberately poisoned my dog to death and think it's funny! I'm an irredeemable sack of human shit!

encouraging folks to ride the :horse::horse::horse: rly aint cool lins

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010

R. Guyovich posted:

the only argument against ubi that has any traction is that bundling a patchwork quilt of social programs into one makes it easier to cut but the benefits outweigh the drawbacks imo

Says who? If everyone gets it everyone will get mad if they try to cut?

Hodgepodge
Jan 29, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 273 days!

Lawman 0 posted:

Says who? If everyone gets it everyone will get mad if they try to cut?

It would get stuck forever at the "we should means test it" step like Social Security (which is similar to UBI).

Digiwizzard
Dec 23, 2003


Pork Pro

R. Guyovich posted:

the only argument against ubi that has any traction is that bundling a patchwork quilt of social programs into one makes it easier to cut but the benefits outweigh the drawbacks imo

UBI is good in the short term but it's just a stop gap solution. If nothing is done to address the massive wealth and power disparity then it will continue to degenerate into a neo feudal society. you get a massive underclass of vunerable serfs that will be permanently at the mercy of the small class of elites who own everything

Digiwizzard has issued a correction as of 13:39 on May 15, 2017

Corky Romanovsky
Oct 1, 2006

Soiled Meat

Hodgepodge posted:

It would get stuck forever at the "we should means test it" step like Social Security (which is similar to UBI).

Yeah, anyone supporting means testing would be denied ubi until their execution.

Corky Romanovsky
Oct 1, 2006

Soiled Meat

Digiwizzard posted:

UBI is good in the short term but it's just a stop gap solution. If nothing is done to address the massive wealth and power disparity then it will continue to degenerate into a neo feudal society. you get a massive underclass of vunerable serfs that will be permanently at the mercy of the small class of elites who own everything

That's what taxes and hobbling are for.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

Digiwizzard posted:

UBI is good in the short term but it's just a stop gap solution. If nothing is done to address the massive wealth and power disparity then it will continue to degenerate into a neo feudal society. you get a massive underclass of vunerable serfs that will be permanently at the mercy of the small class of elites who own everything

UBI does actually address the massive wealth and power disparity. Various particular implementations may not address it enough, but it does address it.

Bulgogi Hoagie
Jun 1, 2012

We
most economists do not support a UBI that would replace social security payments completely so maybe people itt should stop saying how that particular form of UBI is super good

SHY NUDIST GRRL
Feb 15, 2011

Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

Why do they say that goon sir

R. Guyovich
Dec 25, 1991

Lawman 0 posted:

Says who? If everyone gets it everyone will get mad if they try to cut?

i didn't say it was a particularly good argument, it's just the only one not coming from a place of "gently caress the poor forever and ever amen"

JeffersonClay
Jun 17, 2003

by R. Guyovich
UBI is better because it reduces the supply of labor by freeing the wage slaves and therefore it raises wages. Job guarantee just caps unemployment at around 4%. Job guarantee is less vulnerable to racist demagoguery, though.

Lindsey O. Graham
Dec 31, 2016

"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."

- The Chief

mrbradlymrmartin posted:

encouraging folks to ride the :horse::horse::horse: rly aint cool lins

only a thin patina of ice cold fear has kept me from it, unironically

i think of my family, and then i resist pullin the trigga, but for those who don't have that...

i am definitely no betta than them, and it chills me to my core

if i have the sweats, and shakes around you, lock the do and throw away the key, because that means my addictive personality has found yet another thing to help it forget it's inadequacies

Agean90
Jun 28, 2008


why for it has to be one or the other and not both?

poo poo ain't hard you get some income erry month if you want more get a job, if the markets poo poo sign up for a 6 month hitch with the NuWPA or whatever

Lamebot
Sep 8, 2005

ロボ顔菌~♡
what if they just killed all the unemployed people with the grey death?

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

Lamebot posted:

what if they just killed all the unemployed people with the grey death?

SHY NUDIST GRRL
Feb 15, 2011

Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

Lamebot posted:

what if they just killed all the unemployed people with the grey death?

Why contain it? S'cool

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

Why do they say that goon sir

The cost of living for anyone anywhere can vary massively from person to person and place to place based on their social and individual circumstances. Does this singular payment aim to provide for a single disabled person raising children in an urban setting or a single person in a rural community (to take two examples)? To say there's one sum paid to everyone which is designed to cover their actual living costs is to either give some far above or far below their actual needs, while having additional programs to offer disability allowance, child allowances, urban top ups or whatever else can be measured and quantified is likely to arrive at an array of programs and payments which will get much closer to giving people what they need. While the act of qualifying for anything will always anger some it's easier and better to justify these additional payments point by point rather than have the whole program be under attack by rightwingers complaining about young and single people wasting their cut or subjecting the most put upon in society to the humiliation of real poverty under a system when there's meant to be a simple solution to it, meaning many will simply ignore them or blame them for wasting what they do get.

Jewel Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.

Agnostalgia posted:

eh for every one of those there's three who became authoritarian shitheads post service.

Yeah I had a lot of friends or acquaintances who went into the military and there were only two who weren't affected mentally in a bad way. One was affected physically instead, and the other had already been insane since he was a kid.

Corky Romanovsky
Oct 1, 2006

Soiled Meat

namesake posted:

The cost of living for anyone anywhere can vary massively from person to person and place to place based on their social and individual circumstances. Does this singular payment aim to provide for a single disabled person raising children in an urban setting or a single person in a rural community (to take two examples)? To say there's one sum paid to everyone which is designed to cover their actual living costs is to either give some far above or far below their actual needs, while having additional programs to offer disability allowance, child allowances, urban top ups or whatever else can be measured and quantified is likely to arrive at an array of programs and payments which will get much closer to giving people what they need. While the act of qualifying for anything will always anger some it's easier and better to justify these additional payments point by point rather than have the whole program be under attack by rightwingers complaining about young and single people wasting their cut or subjecting the most put upon in society to the humiliation of real poverty under a system when there's meant to be a simple solution to it, meaning many will simply ignore them or blame them for wasting what they do get.

The kids would probably get a UBI, too.

UBI will probably cause population redistribution, as you may not need to live in a city to get a job. Cash flow increase in rural areas would likely boost the local economies and make job opportunities there as well.

There should also be affordable housing initiatives to ensure accessibility to those only earning UBI.

Bulgogi Hoagie
Jun 1, 2012

We
ubi is starting to sound a lot like communism - idyllic, won't actually work out as planned, and probably unworkable

Corky Romanovsky
Oct 1, 2006

Soiled Meat
Where did the communism touch you?

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

Fansy posted:

So we'll have robots making public art, taking care of disadvantaged kids, socializing with residents at nursing homes

japans already doing that `

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Jewel Repetition
Dec 24, 2012

Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.

Bulgogi Hoagie posted:

ubi is starting to sound a lot like communism - idyllic, won't actually work out as planned, and probably unworkable

You thought that about it from the beginning.

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