Why "basic income" and not "job guarantee"?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > Why "basic income" and not "job guarantee"?

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

because having the government provide jobs nobody needs to do things nobody wants would seriously suck balls for everyone involved including the government, OP

# ¿ May 6, 2017 02:02

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 17:03

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

conscription is basically a job guarantee for 18 year olds and that mostly involves peeling potatoes and getting hazed for a year or more in the countries where it is obligatory

# ¿ May 6, 2017 02:08

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

SpaceGoku posted:

no, we'll just have computers and machines (and some robots) multiplying and optimizing human labor more and more efficiently and we'll need fewer and fewer people employed

also every field of art and entertainment is close to having an infinite amount of content from the viewpoint of the audience because so much of it is produced that one person can't realistically expect to experience all of it (or even most of it)

so it doesn't matter if the robots figure out how to paint or sing because we have so many people trying to do that those fields are in effect already automated

i don't think you really get automation

# ¿ May 6, 2017 02:18

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

SpaceGoku posted:

there is no field of human labor that is safe from being automated

whatever the hell you do for a living, there's someone trying to figure out how to either get a machine to do it, or make a tool or program that makes labor more efficient so there's fewer people who need to do it

figuring out how to make labor more efficient has been the story of human history since it began

yeah great but just because a field of work is oversubscribed doesn't mean it's automated hope this helps

# ¿ May 6, 2017 02:37

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

SpaceGoku posted:

also every field of art and entertainment is close to having an infinite amount of content from the viewpoint of the audience because so much of it is produced that one person can't realistically expect to experience all of it (or even most of it)

so it doesn't matter if the robots figure out how to paint or sing because we have so many people trying to do that those fields are in effect already automated

SpaceGoku posted:

I didn't say it was

# ¿ May 6, 2017 02:42

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

gonna drop my banging album made by a neural network i trained with a bunch of rihanna songs, right after i get beaten into a legal pulp by a bunch of copyright lawyers

# ¿ May 6, 2017 02:48

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

i think massive inflation is a good idea too tbh

# ¿ May 6, 2017 02:55

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

if the united states implemented UBI it would lead to a global economic crisis so massive that people would beg for a return to the good times of 2009 as the dollar, the worlds reserve currency, would inflate to poo poo and crash everybody's savings

# ¿ May 6, 2017 03:10

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

Bip Roberts posted:

hmm not really probably

you know what the united states could get away with printing money for without the dollar going to poo poo? universal healthcare lol

# ¿ May 6, 2017 03:15

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

actually i changed my mind UBI would give lots of people who are bad with money quite a lot of money and even if some massively bad inflation happens i could probably make a profit just on that

# ¿ May 6, 2017 03:22

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

Not a Step posted:

Mild predictable inflation is good for everyone except people who keep all their money under a mattress or in a scrooge mcduck style money bin

The poor don't have savings. Its why theyre poor! The middle class doesn't really have any notable savings either and usually a lot of debt. Crashing everybody's non existent savings while inflating away debt would be a massive boon for everyone except the ultra-rich, and frankly gently caress those guys (provided the inflation was reasonable, predictable, and wages inflated to keep track - super important caveats).

I mean yeah for something like factory work where the lines never stop and you just hire another shift's worth of workers, but for basically everything else declaring a 30 hour work week doesn't really *do* much. More time off is nice though, I guess.

everybody with half a brain in eurasia keeps their savings in dollars and erasing their money would definitely not be a massive boon to the developing world at all and would probably lead to a bunch of people dying but hey at least it would get rid of your student debt, america first!!!

# ¿ May 6, 2017 11:17

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

SpaceGoku posted:

this already happens every few years because of capitalism anyway

it happened back in 2008

it's gonna happen again sometime soon

"capitalism is not a perfect economic system that can transcend physical reality and provide for everyone, so anything i propose has to be better by definition" is certainly not a take we have ever heard before lol

# ¿ May 6, 2017 13:19

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

SpaceGoku posted:

your argument against ubi is that "printing a bunch of money will destroy the global economy"

we did that back in 2009 and it didn't

no my argument is that printing a bunch of the worlds reserve currency and introducing it into super high-velocity circulation is going to wreck the global economy for some time

# ¿ May 6, 2017 14:48

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

SpaceGoku posted:

ubi doesn't require printing a bunch of money though so that's a weird argument to make

yeah good thing this argument stands even if we don't print any new money for ubi then

# ¿ May 6, 2017 14:57

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

ubi could probably work real good for states that do not control a global reserve currency and also really need inflation like japan

# ¿ May 6, 2017 16:16

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

Venom Snake posted:

almost every single economist worth a drat thinks UBI would be a huge boon for the economy you moron

in another universe maybe

# ¿ May 6, 2017 22:01

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

most economists do not support a UBI that would replace social security payments completely so maybe people itt should stop saying how that particular form of UBI is super good

# ¿ May 15, 2017 15:59

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

ubi is starting to sound a lot like communism - idyllic, won't actually work out as planned, and probably unworkable

# ¿ May 21, 2017 23:27

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

Corky Romanovsky posted:

Where did the communism touch you?

pretty much everywhere

# ¿ May 21, 2017 23:57

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

the communist doctor gently fondled my testicles, just in case

# ¿ May 22, 2017 14:32

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

you'll end up needing price controls for everything because every non idiot business owner will raise prices to adjust for the ubi implemented

# ¿ May 22, 2017 15:33

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 17:03

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

Venom Snake posted:

Do you also think that if we raise the minimum wage that prices will go up too?

i mean apart from the fact that this is false equivalency bullshit, are we going to pretend itt that it's settled science that they do not? because heres a pretty respected labour affiliated source saying it depends

# ¿ May 22, 2017 17:20

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > Why "basic income" and not "job guarantee"?