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The miniature games industry is a fascinating one, but the people running it often seem to either have no clue what they're doing or to actively hate their customers. For a luxury, niche product, the companies that produce them appear more interested in telling their customers what they want rather than making informed decisions about the industry or market. Further, these companies are also held hostage by their dedicated fanbases, which look upon every change in the rules or design with dread and disdain. What's this thread for then? This thread is the place to go when a company that makes miniature games does something stupid and you want to talk about it. This could be a major revision, a botched release, or just a personal experience with lousy customer service. This is also the thread to talk about comparative design and mechanics between games. While I think most people are fine with some criticism of the games they play in their dedicated threads, they can be distracting from actual discussion of the game so having a dedicated place to talk about why one game does THIS but another game insists on doing THAT means that no toes get stepped on. This is also the thread to go to to ask which games you should try out and to see what's coming on the horizon. Since we don't seem to have a general releases thread, past Death Threads have been a great place for people who follow one game to keep up with the goings on in another and to find gems that they would otherwise miss. And if you have weird experiences playing a game, this is probably a more appropriate place to talk about it than in the thread for the game you were playing. Just trying to play a game of X-Wing when a guy told you that Hitler did nothing wrong? We'd love to hear about it. What's this thread not for? We're not here to pick on any one company. Every company has its pros and cons. This is just a collection of those and to look at the industry in general. This is an exciting time as companies are actually looking to modernize and there are more games on the market and being played than ever before. But why can't anyone seem to match order demand? Why are companies so hesitant to divorce the hobby from the game? Why are mechanics still using design concepts from the 80s? Dramatis Personæ Catalyst Game Labs A small operation that like most small operations in this industry can often be boiled down to a single guy: Randall Bills. This man has a lot of passion for what he does, but is caught between a rock and a hard place. Should he update Battletech to appeal to a wide audience or should he pretty much keep it as it is so as not to risk 30 years of groggy rage. Notable Games: Battletech Boneheaded Moves: Currently working on a new edition of Battletech, but no rules are actually being changed because they're too small to risk losing the dedicated base. They've attempted to circumvent this by releasing an alternative rules set called "Alpha Strike" with more modern play mechanics. They were also working on a brand new miniature game property Leviathans but this seems to have vanished after they got "Palladiumed" by an employee who wanted a new porch. They've also talked about hard plastics for years, but have never committed for ~reasons~. Corvus Belli (thanks Not a Viking!) A Spanish company with a sci-fi skirmish game that launched its third edition some two (?) years ago. The rules and web based army builder is free, with background books and physical copies of the rules available to buy. Money is made by selling relatively expensive models that you don't need that many of (technically). Model count is 10-20, but most players have a lot more because we like versatility and the models are pretty. No silly heroic scale. Comes with a robust tournament system that is updated each season (year) with new missions and tweaks to old ones. Very objective based, meaning you can lose your entire army and still win the game, black ops style. Has some game mechanics (order resource pool, Automatic Reaction Orders) and A LOT of special rules that takes some time to master even for veteran war gamers even though the core rules are very logical. Notable Games: Infinity. Has a sci-fi RPG spin-off and a board game spin-off that is going to be launched in June this year. Boneheaded Moves: They keep putting out new profiles and models no one asked for, even though they are far behind in the production of models that have had rules for years. Many of their female models have a certain "cheesecake" feel to them, with a lot of T&A (the worst part of the manga inspiration). Fantasy Flight Games The "new kids on the block" of the industry. They made their name making board games before securing the Star Wars license and releasing X-Wing. After officially breaking up with Games Workshop, they've now released their own fantasy mass battle game. Notable Games: Star Wars X-Wing, Star Wars Armada, Runewars Boneheaded Moves: Players are still frustrated by the model used in X-Wing that requires them to buy ships they don't want in order to get upgrade cards they need. They've sworn not to do this in their Runewars miniatures game, but so long as it prints money in X-Wing there's no reason to think that it will stop. The figures in Runewars also have players divided. Some of the sculpts are OK and others are mediocre to bad, but the real issue is that they're not pre-painted. It seems fans were hoping to get the X-Wing treatment and people and burnt out on painting up hordes of soldiers before being able to play a game. Games Workshop The largest name in the industry, everyone knows these guys and most of us got started in the hobby because of them. In fact, "the hobby" has often been ubiquitous with Games Workshop and its products. They've had some highs and lows, but recent changes in leadership and a new edition of 40k have fans cautiously optimistic. Boneheaded Moves: The release of Age of Sigmar was an unmitigated disaster and the rules for it are still terrible, but they actually appear to be listening to what fans want and are trying to avoid the same thing happening with the new edition of 40k. Hawk Wargames (thanks Nifara!) Niche within a niche wargaming company (10mm sci fi!) who love their vehicles and had to employ someone who didn't hate infantry to sculpt their infantry because the first run was so drat bad. They have a reputation for having an enthusiastic convention presence, having no organisational skills of any kind and for their rules suffering from uneven playtesting. In short, they're a small wargames company Notable Games: Dropzone Commander, Dropfleet Commander Boneheaded Moves: The aforementioned infantry. The fact that their kickstarter delivery for Dropfleet was late, and then inconsistent and their communication was poor verging on nonexistent. The biggest screw up with it though was that most people didn't get their stuff until it had already hit retail, and the people who backed for the most money got their stuff last. Which of course is exactly the way to treat people who invest a buttload of cash into your game. Also, Hawk Dave writes rules that can be charitably described as "wobbly", that leave major problems with balance. The traditional mechanism to fixing balance has been releasing randomised card draw mechanics, which are sort of compulsory but lots of people refuse to play with. Mantic Games Kickstarter superstars who are trying to be "Games Workshop but not evil". This of course does not make them an inherently good company. They rely far too much on Kickstarter and several of their supporters are suffering fatigue from long wait times, production and shipping issues, and products not meeting expectations. Notable Games: Kings of War, Warpath Universe Boneheaded Moves: For every decent rule they release, they're contractually obligated to release two bad models. Retailers are hesitant to stock them since most people who play their games just get everything off Kickstarter at a steep discount. Their customer service is garbage, though with the introduction of a ticket system in 2016 this has improved dramatically. While trying to compete against Warhammer 40k, they decided to release two games rather than putting their full weight behind one even though everyone told them again and again that no one wants a sci-fi mass battle game at 28mm scale. Mierce Miniatures (thanks Irate Tree!) Born from the ashes of Maelstrom Games, an online miniatures retailer that, when faced with financial hardship and eventual bankruptcy, conducted sales at obscene discount and continually taking orders on items that were no longer in stock, with no intention of reimbursement (see: phoenixing), Mierce Miniatures is a specialist miniatures company that uses kickstarter to a very large extent, to make finely detailed resin crack. Many of their kickstarters, while several years old, are still in the process of fulfilment… Notable Games: Darklands, Darkholds(?) Boneheaded Moves: As mentioned above, the company arose from a process known as phoenixing (a process common to the UK, due to it not being illegal at the time (may still be legal in the UK?)). As one can imagine; having your money taken, expecting jewel like objects of wonder in return, only to be told it is gone and never to be seen again, breeds no end of ill will. Mierce has been blighted from its very inception. Further, their kickstarters, while communicative, have run for many years after their initial fulfilment promise. That is not to say they have stopped entirely, only that, this poo poo should have been done with by now. Osprey Who needs models when you can just release a different book every week? Osprey is unique in that they focus far more on releasing rules than on releasing figures. That doesn't mean they don't partner with companies to release models for their games, it's just not a focus of their company. More known for historicals than anything else, they've started to dip their toes in fantasy and sci-fi gaming. Notable Games: Frostgrave, Lion Rampant Boneheaded Moves: Most of their games are only 64 pages long. This means that it's common for situations to arise that aren't covered in the rules. The rules themselves also aren't widely test-played, resulting in broken mechanics that don't hold up in competitive play. This has been a major problem with Frostgrave and has caused fans to write dozens of pages of houserules and fixes that should have been part of the core game to begin with. They also have products competing against one another so it can be confusing for customers unfamiliar with the company or its products to know what they should be buying. Wait, which sci-fi skirmish game was I looking for? Privateer Press (thanks Luebbi!) With a focus on the competitive scene, PP pride themselves on writing concise rules that do not leave room for interpretation. They’ve grown a lot since their early days, and have expanded their Warmachine and Hordes brands to several other markets, including card games and RPG’s. Notable Games: Warmachine and Hordes Boneheaded moves: The release of their newest edition last summer was rocky at best. After community outcry they rebalanced an entire faction from the ground up, but others still have lots of internal discrepancies (why should I take X, when Y does more and costs less). Meanwhile they killed their volunteer Pressgang program with no warning, gutted their forums to a barebones affair, and raised prices on new products to 60$ for a single character Warbeast. Right now they’re busy releasing theme-forces, which limit your army composition but give benefits, including free models. The usefulness of these varies from “why would I ever take this” to “I can play what I played already, get ~20% more points and take away my opponent’s advance deployment, gutting certain armies”. Seems fair. Warlord Games These guys are trying to make historic games more palatable to the masses by focusing on "cinematic" gameplay over "historical accuracy". They also have Rick Perry on board who is trying to push the company in new directions with his sci-fi game Gates of Antares and a rumored fantasy game in the future. Notable Games: Bolt Action, Beyond the Gates of Antares Boneheaded Moves: They don't quite have their fingers on the pulse of the market and as a result faced production problems on their samurai skirmish game Test of Honour resulting in shortages to stores. Some changes to Bolt Action 2nd Edition have also left fans less than enthused about the direction the game is going in. I am hardly an expect on the industry and this list is just to get things started. If you would like to add to, or contradict, what I've written about the above companies or would like to add another company, please post below and I'll edit it into the OP. Atlas Hugged fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Jun 24, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 03:46
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Safety Factor posted:Missed your safe space, huh? We've talked about expanding the scope and purpose of the Death Thread for awhile and this seemed like as good an opportunity as any to do so. It's not really meant to be a safe space since criticism and discussion of specific games have been going on in those threads for awhile now. But I liked how the Death Thread talked about miniature gaming and the industry as a whole. We've just been using bagging on GW as an excuse to do that and I don't think it necessary and GW is hardly the only example of lovely behavior in the industry. I'm hoping someone does a nice write-up of Mierce for instance and why you should stay the hell away or what the risks are of getting involved with the guys that do Dystopian Wars.
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May 12, 2017 04:49
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Coolness Averted posted:Why not Privateer Press? I don't follow them close enough but all of my war game nerd friends have been bitching about them for a year or so. Except for the dudes who owrk in the nerdgame industry and praise everything since they don't wanna poo poo on a company they may apply at later. I was hoping someone else would write them up. I don't know anything about them except they bungled the release of their new edition.
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May 12, 2017 05:25
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TKIY posted:Death threads are for GW. They just are. This is an abomination. Probably, but that's the world we live in. Chill la Chill posted:I got scrappers today. Will be trying it out sometime in the next week, maybe tomorrow night. Like all campaign games, it has the same problem of snowballing. But, I'm not sure about the math and upgrade system yet so it might not be so prone to OHKOs as frostgrave was. My copy might be here this week. The FLGS got it through his American distributor instead of his British one so it had the later release date. What do you think the solution to snowballing is? Most games attempt some kind of yoyo effect where losing or weaker teams gain extra experience, but it doesn't really make fit better games. This was an issue in Gorkamorka that always kept my friend from wanting to do 2 player campaigns. Hixson posted:How can you have a death thread for that which will never die? It's just a name.
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May 12, 2017 05:35
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I agree with the sentiment but won't be putting the quote in. Feel free to post some pictures of possums though. I might consider adding those to the op.
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May 12, 2017 05:49
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Drone posted:WotC also just announced that CGL will be creating and releasing some new card game or something based on the Dungeons & Dragons license, so that might give them a bit more cash to shore up Battletech (one could hope). They really do need to go deeper into marketing Alpha Strike and get a new Intro Box Set out there that contains the starter rules for both TW and Alpha Strike... though I think they announced a new Intro Box was coming at some point in the near future anyway. Cease to Hope posted:CGL also publishes Shadowrun, Loren Coleman is less "an employee" and more "a co-founder and (co-?)owner", and they're infamous for stiffing freelancers to this day CGL is one of those companies that I really want to like but just can't bring myself to do it. The 25th Anniversary Battletech box was a drat fine product, but everything else about them is terrible, from their release schedule drying up to stiffing freelancers to the embezzlement issues. Maybe they're finally digging themselves out of their financial hole with the licensed products they've been trying to get out, but they've got a long way to go to win back the goodwill of the industry. Seriously, stiffing freelancers is about the dumbest thing you can do in an industry this small since everyone knows everyone and word spreads fast. Also, was it Randy himself who was stealing funds? I alluded to it in the OP with my "Palladium" comment, but I thought it was a different member of staff. ijyt posted:They named the 8th death thread 3rd edition I didn't want to go count how many iterations we've had and went with a reference to DnD 3e and 40k 3e being major breaks in design philosophy from their predecessors. It seemed appropriate since I wanted the focus of this thread to change. Luebbi posted:I’ve got you, fam. Thanks. Added to the OP. The one thing I heard that they were doing was making you buy larger boxsets and eliminating blisters or individual units and they were doing this with the express purpose of reducing SKUs so that retailers would have an easier time stocking them. Does this tie into any of what you wrote and does it make it harder or more expensive to buy a competitive force? Safety Factor posted:Your dedication to this sad gimmick of a thread is astounding. I guess I don't know why the somethingawful dot com dead comedy forums wouldn't want a thread where we discussed all the idiocy in this industry. It seems like a plentiful source of content. Reaper is still having production issues with Bones 3 from what I've heard. There's a one man show calling themselves Ral Partha and that has all sorts of potential for disaster. Mantic is in the middle of yet another Kickstarter that can have shipping and fulfillment issues even though they still have 2 unfinished ones. I find it fascinating.
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May 12, 2017 08:09
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Hamshot posted:Here's a crazy idea: talk about them in the relevant threads! Crazy idea I know! I touched on this in the OP, but if you would like a further explanation I can provide one. There are a lot of threads and a lot of games and some games don't have threads. I don't have any interest in Warmahordes and so I don't go into that thread at all. But that doesn't mean I don't want to hear about PP making terrible business decisions. Having a thread that focuses on the industry specifically over the minutia of the game, the hobby, or the competitive scene is the obvious solution. The different threads also have different cultures. Some threads really do just focus on list building and posting pictures of painted models and aren't interested in analyzing rules or being critical of the company as a whole, and that's fine if that's what the people posting that thread want. Besides, what harm is there in having a decent resource so every time a lovely company posts a new Kickstarter or someone wants to know why everyone hates this particular name in the industry, posters can just say, "Oh, there's a decent write-up about it starting on page X of the Death Thread. Here's a link." Plus, here people can compare other games and mechanics to each other without someone saying, "If you love X-Wing so much go talk about it in the X-Wing thread" or "take it to the Death Thread". Frankly, since "take it to the Death Thread" is thrown around with some frequency here, I don't see the harm in having one. But how can you possibly call it a fluffy echo chamber? There is a monumental amount of shitposting and personal attacks that go on in the Death Thread and yet the regulars still try to engage in meaningful discussion. I invite contrasting viewpoints because I want legitimate discussion. It's not like there's a finite amount of internet and there's no room for this thread in Trad Games.
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May 12, 2017 08:50
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Hamshot posted:What can be said against a stonewall that hard? You invite legitimate discussion, in this thread, but who else? I've not once seen you defend somebody with a positive opinion getting browbeaten by the regulars. It shows the fundamental problem you have, that only the regulars engage in meaningful discussion. Everyone else is shitposting and personal attacks, and that is the only category people who disagree with this thread will ever be in. I have actually defended games I don't like and people posting about them in the past, usually when people are factually incorrect with their criticisms or bringing up something that a company has changed or addressed. Just because you didn't notice me doing it doesn't mean I didn't. And for the record that's how I intend to run this thread. Being critical is good, but posting bullshit or things that are factually incorrect won't be tolerated. I even asked people to correct me in the OP if I had something wrong! As for why LeperFlesh posted that, in my opinion it's because you weren't actually engaging with the points he was making and he was frustrated. I don't know why you would do that other than to later be able to say, "See, he wouldn't actually listen to an opposing viewpoint," or maybe because you were intentionally baiting him, I don't know. That's just what I remember though and I could be wrong. But the point he was making wasn't that he wouldn't discuss things with a dissenting opinion. He just wasn't interested in having a one-sided discussion where the dissenting opinion ignored every valid thing he said and replied as if he hadn't said anything at all. If you would like to hash it out with him, feel free to take it to PMs since I don't really want to relive drama from a previous thread in this one. As I said, there are a lot of threads I'd have to be following if I wanted to know what every single company was doing. Having this thread is a convenience and let's people talk about the industry in depth when the thread about a specific game or company has moved on to something more relevant to them. I like the sound of Death Thread. It gets straight to the point. This is an industry where people constantly make terrible financial decisions and even when people are acting in good faith they're usually doing something questionable. Why deny what the roots are? I could call it anything at all and you guys would have the same reaction. And that to me is very odd. And I'm pretty sure the internet has already plumbed the depths of that last point you were making. The Death Thread existing hardly makes things worse for anyone. Edit: See my post below. Sometimes poo poo goes on behind the scenes that potentially has repercussions across multiple companies. This thread clearly has the scope to talk about stuff like that in general. Atlas Hugged fucked around with this message at 09:42 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 09:33
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Corrode posted:I know it's distracting from the cool kids posting about hugboxes and safe spaces and poo poo but I'm interested in these. The last I remember of Mierce is that they were owned by the same dodgy cunts who ran Maelstrom and pulled a lot of shady stuff that more or less amounted to stealing customer money, not paying suppliers and then using some shell companies to hide from the repercussions. What's happened with them since? I'd also like to hear about Dystopian Wars since I remember that coming out but didn't hear much about it since. My understanding is that they were Maelstrom but when they ran out of funds they declared bankruptcy and founded Mierce and never fulfilled any of the outstanding orders they still had. They've since gone on to run a series of Kickstarters, but they somehow never have enough funds to pay for fulfillment, so the next Kickstarter they do actually goes to pay for the previous one. I'm shaky on the specifics and haven't dealt with them personally, which is why I wanted to leave it to someone else. But I think that's the gist. More recently they've put out some very pricey starter kits and actually have rules for a game, but that's not particularly egregious given the hobby we're in. As far as I know Dystopian Wars and Spartan Games are mostly fine, but I remember reading that they're really bad at long term support for their games and that you can never be sure if the game you are buying into is going to suddenly stop getting new releases, but again I lack personal experience with it. Someone should also talk about how the Dropfleet Kickstarter got hosed up. Which reminds me, I've heard rumors that something went wrong with the production side of things in China and it had a trickle down effect across multiple companies, potentially affecting Hawk, Mantic, Reaper, and Warlord to name a few but I don't know any more about it.
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May 12, 2017 09:40
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Hamshot posted:Once again, it'll be quickly established that only the regulars are being critical, because critical = negative. The non-regulars to a thread that might as well be titled "Be Negative about Games Here" will be the ones "Posting bullshit or things that are factually incorrect." Who said there wasn't going to be bias? I said it wasn't an echo chamber or fluffy hugbox or whatever. I, as the OP, am happy to call people out when they're not being fair, but I can hardly control what everyone posts. And critical isn't always going to be negative. We've had lots of great discussion about game mechanics in previous Death Threads where people are critical in the sense that they analyze rules and propose solutions to problems. My challenge to you though is to just try participating in the thread for the stated purpose rather than going on and on about how you feel like CGL's honor is going to be poo poo on or whatever. I mean Christ, for example I even said positive things about them in my response to the people who brought up how terrible they are. I simply do not understand why this upsets you so much.
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May 12, 2017 09:47
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Hamshot posted:I'm not sure you know what a hugbox or an echochamber is if you say bias has nothing to do with them. As for controlling what people post... A hugbox or echo chamber means everyone says the same thing and anyone who disagrees gets shouted out. Bias means people have opinions that inform what they say. I suspect people have different biases that result in differing viewpoints. My biases and your biases are clearly not the same. I cannot eliminate bias because I am not a robot. But we're getting pedantic. Please stay on topic from now on. quote:...could've fooled me. And what the gently caress is a CGL? Catalyst Game Labs, see the OP for a quick rundown on who they are. But basically they were a company created around the time WizKids started doing Mechwarrior Dark Age to handle the Classic Battletech License and once MWDA died they became the sole company in charge of Battletech and a few other old FASA licenses, such as Shadowrun. They were starting to branch out with original properties and games, but embezzlement drained their funds and they haven't been able to release anything in awhile. They're about to put out a LCG with Wizards, though. I can't wait to see how that unfolds. And speaking of Wizkids, I would love an effortpost on their history and the dozen different games they were trying to juggle before collapsing in on themselves. Drone posted:Someone post stuff about Corvus Belli or Hawk or Perry. Yes do this.
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May 12, 2017 09:59
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Bistromatic posted:
They still have a link to it on their main page, so maybe someday.... quote:My main issue with Corvus Belli is how they depict women. Their excuse for that is apparently that they have no control over what their skeevy sculptors do. This has been a contentious topic in and of itself. quote:I can try to write a bit about Hawk but no promise if i can find the time at the moment. Full disclosure: I'm a Talon, a volunteer promoter in the same vein as the Pressgangers, so don't expect anything unbiased if it happens. It would be great to hear things from that perspective. No rush. Get to it when and if you can. Hamshot posted:And if that's what CGL is, why did you say I was going on and on about defending their honor? What happened to only the outsiders doing personal attacks, might've you stooped down to our slovenly level? It was a hypothetical example and very clearly not a personal attack. I'm sure you're capable of understanding that. As we've seen from the above post, there is bias from different directions already. The thread is saved. So now let's please stay on topic and talk about the miniature game industry at large. Atlas Hugged fucked around with this message at 10:16 on May 12, 2017 |
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May 12, 2017 10:13
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Nifara posted:Hawk Wargames Thanks. I'll add it to the OP. Bistromatic if you don't agree with that or have a different take, I can add that in later too. Hamshot posted:Please, Atlas Hugged, defend this opinion to me. Second page and Godwin's Law already in effect. Sometimes people write things for humorous effect.
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May 12, 2017 10:21
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Hamshot posted:I'm glad that we're two pages in and already I don't need to source quotes from the last death thread as to why discussion gets killed and this thread is a bad idea. If you feel like you are having difficulty discussing the miniature game industry because of attitudes in this thread, please send me a PM and we can discuss it there.
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May 12, 2017 10:27
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Hamshot posted:Why not just admit you're wrong and close the thread instead? I'm not sure which company you're trying to discuss. Could you maybe rephrase it or take this to PMs?
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May 12, 2017 10:45
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Hamshot posted:Ok, stonewall me. Own up to what you really are, and what this thread is for. You've stopped trying to relentlessly polish a turd and defend, the next step is dismounting your high horse and change the op to pictures of memes, then close the drat thread and reopen it in ycs. We discussed it with you, allowed you to express your view, disagreed, and moved on. It doesn't seem you're interested in changing your opinion so I don't see why I should keep this going. I'm happy to chat in PMs and let this thread do what it will.
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May 12, 2017 10:52
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Hamshot posted:It's funny you say this when every point you've brought up has been proven indefensible. My opinion was that it would be impossible to have a dissenting opinion in this thread. You have done nothing to change it, only reinforced it, especially with this backhanded remark. As with every other conversation we've had with you, you disagree, declare you're right, and then cite yourself as evidence of being proven correct. We literally have someone here who volunteers their time for Hawk who is going to have a different bias and opinion than the people posting about being burned by the Kickstarter. Female sculpts and Infinity butts have always had people in disagreement. Some things are objective fact. There's no room for disagreement on whether or not embezzlement took place. The scope of the thread is all games and companies in the miniature game company. Surely you don't believe that we all believe exactly the same things about every game and company. So I'm asking you to stop the derail.
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May 12, 2017 11:01
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It's a derail because you intended it to be one, simple as that. But you're doing exactly what we said. You're not addressing what I said and it's habitual so those posters are fed up. Simple as that. Take it to PMs please. I would like this thread to go back to its stated purpose and I will not be responding to this derail further.
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May 12, 2017 11:22
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ijyt posted:Like gently caress, that was lovely entitled gamers being lovely entitled gamers. Kickstarter is not a store. They communicated non-stop on their Kickstarter progress. They did triple shifts. Some manchild had to wait an extra month or two for a product that may not have existed if not for the backer money boo loving hoo. I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand I agree that Kickstarter is not a store and people should stop treating it that way and a lot of negative feelings come back to that misconception. On the other hand, those products wouldn't be on the shelves if not for the backers and pissing them off is a good way to poison the well and make future Kickstarters tougher. But there is a lesson for other companies in there. Plan your staffing better and hire more people if you have to. I don't feel bad for companies that screw up because of management problems.
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May 12, 2017 12:54
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No need for two. Back to the other thread.
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May 12, 2017 13:37
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Palladium has hired an actual business manager and swears Wave 2 for Robotech RPG Tactics is right around the corner. This is coming off the spectacular failure of the attempted Rifts board game Kickstarter. Perhaps there are some lessons learned here? Meanwhile, Mantic has begun introducing formations into Kings of War despite protests from players. These are considered entirely optional for the time being, but along with 75mm bases for monsters becoming standard is another terrible precedent being set.
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Jun 22, 2017 15:36
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MCPeePants posted:Runewars miniatures game: I'm really enjoying it, but this slow launch does NOT appear to be helping the game. I sort of observed the same thing with Armada when it was coming out and I guess it didn't die in infancy? But it's real tough to get people on board with it when my pitch is "it's like a warhammer fantasy style game, but with only two factions, and those each only have like 3 different units, and local stores aren't doing a very good job of stocking it but it's gonna be GREAT honest" Also, sculpt quality aside (I tend to agree that they're generally meh though there are some standouts like the golems and graboids) I've been disappointed in the CAST quality - mold lines are pretty bad, not well hidden, and whatever plastic they're using does not trim very well. I think the release schedule works for Star Wars where there are only two or three possible factions to begin with and they have the Star Wars license and associated sales to keep the game propped up. I know some people bought everything at launch at my FLGS, but I haven't seen it played.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:34
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Irate Tree posted:My quick write up; These guys seem especially scummy.
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Jun 23, 2017 21:20
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Irate Tree posted:Quite true. Their behaviour since then though, so far, has been better. If only they'd give kickstarter a rest for a few years. I think Leper Flesh has touched on this before. It's kind of a damned if you do damned if you don't type of situation. It's easy money and so long as people are willing to contribute, there's not really a compelling reason for a small company not to do it. With someone like Mierce though you get the impression that the funds they collect from their latest kickstarter goes to pay for the rewards from the previous one. Not a viking posted:Oh cool the Death thread is back!  It is frustrating though that the go-to example for high quality miniatures that aren't made by GW are "anime tits". I've never really bought the argument that "this is what our sculptors want to do". It's obviously a deflection from saying, "This is what our customers want to buy." But at least with the takeout Chinese food guy they're acting self-aware.
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Jun 24, 2017 16:15
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TTerrible posted:Remember when it was ok that Inferno had stupid editing errors because they're a tiny subsidiary studio? Manticrules.txt
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Jun 24, 2017 20:50
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All posts are welcome.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:20
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To me abstracted terrain just makes so much more sense.
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Jun 25, 2017 21:00
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Can we talk about how hilariously bad Magic has been for a while? 5 cars banned in the current standard, the current draft format has a straight unbeatable rare in Glorybringer, and there have been three unannounced changes to what sets are legal in Standard in the past two years. On top of that, all their game designers are contractors, their online offering is 15 years old and the current iteration offers no meaningful improvement in stability or UX relative to what was available a decade and a half ago. I don't know anything about Magic, but this definitely sounds like Death Thread material. Contractors as designers is such a poo poo practice since once the project is done they're not super enthusiastic about following up or helping with the FAQ.
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Jun 25, 2017 21:50
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My friend was in a car accident several years ago. I've been meaning to go over to his place for the past decade to sort through some stuff, but I don't live on the same continent anymore. I happened to be in town and ran into his parents and they invited me over. I'm pretty sure most of his 40k stuff was in the crash with him as everything is in a terrible state of disrepair. I'm not sure how worth my time it is to try and repair it. Plus, everything has the paint job of a teenager. However, he had some gorgeous Mordheim skaven, the 2002 Blood Bowl core set with an extra set of orcs, a few dozen fantasy dwarfs from an army that never quite got off the ground, and a mostly intact Battlefleet Gothic starter box. So his memory is going to be able to live on, though I might have to hunt down some bits to repair his Chaos ships.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:21
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I got in touch with another high school friend who is happy to take the 40k stuff. He's always been better at the hobby side than me and so he's got the chops to repair the models that need it, touch up the ones that are just painted poorly, and do something interesting with the ones that were never painted. Part of me was taking stuff because I figured it would be easier for me to throw it out than for them, since this stuff was a big part of his short life and is potentially valuable. But it seems like all of it is going to have a home.
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Jun 26, 2017 18:49
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We all are.
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Jun 27, 2017 15:28
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My FLGS banned Magic. He knows that it's what most stores pay rent with, but he didn't want to deal with unsupervised teenagers or having to sort through singles to survive on secondary market sales. As a result, board games and miniature games do quite well and the LCGs thrive since those are the only card games you can play.
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Jun 28, 2017 16:38
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Well the store is super successful and has been for a decade without Magic, but the owner is a stick in the mud. So I guess the truth is somewhere in the middle.
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Jun 28, 2017 17:13
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LordAba posted:Played a couple games of 8th. One step forward two steps back. Apparently some friends of mine are playing Lord of the Rings again so I was flipping through my Return of the King rules and it uses true line of sight with the caveat of don't be stupid about it, it's just a model.
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Jul 5, 2017 17:00
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:I'm sure everyone can easily tell precisely what is "stupid" TOLS and what is not, despite it somehow being impossible to commit to words You're never going to hear me defend TLOS. It's a garbage mechanic at the best of time, but at least GW has previously acknowledged the imprecise nature of it and attempted to address it in the rules. That doesn't mean they were successful mind you, just that they acknowledged the problem.
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Jul 6, 2017 08:10
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:I mean, this is just another wording of the "gentleman's agreement" stuff, it's GW's go-to idea for how you're supposed to handle the fact that they can't be bothered to write functional rules I think the real problem is that the people who are more interested in "casual gaming" often don't understand that having "competitive" rules is better for everyone in the end. I get the feeling that GW, even when it was "old good GW", was writing from the perspective of gaming as a hobby where friends got together to tell emergent stories, have a few laughs, and not take anything too seriously. There's nothing wrong with this approach to gaming, but it's a terrible approach to writing rules. If the rules are well constructed, you can play a fair game without any house-ruling or negotiation. And if the players aren't happy with how things are turning out on the battlefield for whatever reason, they're totally free to bend the rules or have a do over or just declare that something different than what is "supposed" to happen happened. Just because something has tight tournament rules doesn't mean you can't ignore those rules outside of a tournament setting. So ultimately you're right and I agree with the point you're making, but I do think it's important to understand the mindset that GW is frequently writing from and the impact that this has had overall on the industry. They're not necessarily "wrong" to write rules the way they do, but they do end up being imperfect or flawed.
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Jul 8, 2017 23:24
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I guess I'm saying that it's wrong in the sense that if I'm paying money for a product, I want it to be a complete product that doesn't necessitate me fixing it every time some little thing comes up. This is why I look at old GW rules as "of their time" and haven't spent any money on rereleases of flawed rules like SWA or Blood Bowl. But it's not wrong in some broader moral sense. You can write rules however you want and if your design philosophy and intent are clear it doesn't really matter how comprehensive the rules are. I think GW wishes that everyone knew their games were at best a framework and they're really not intended for anything more than facilitating a story of the players' creation, but they can't or won't come right out and say that. So you have this really toxic culture that has grown up around their games, both internally on the development side and externally on the hobbyist side, where everyone is either pretending or convinced that the rules do exactly what they need to and nothing needs any work and you're crazy for suggesting otherwise.
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Jul 9, 2017 00:13
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I just got a pile of free minis from Ral Partha. The guy running it seems like a decent enough fellow.
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Jul 10, 2017 11:18
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Terrible Opinions posted:I don't have a problem with fun rules, but actually fun rules also tend to be better balanced rules. Same way I'm okay with cartoons being for kids, but if I need to watch said cartoon while looking after my cousins I'd prefer it was well written. You're exactly correct of course. It's better to start with solid rules and then let people change them as they see fit than to start with vague or broken rules and tell players that they're the masters of their own domain. But as I said earlier, it's much less of a problem when the writer is allowed to explain his intent and design philosophy. If there's a big warning label on page one that says something like, "These rules are at best guidelines, they are not intended for competitive or balanced play, you're going to have to fill in the gaps yourself or make tweaks to account for the scenarios and lists that you come up with that we could never have predicted," than that goes a long way towards tempering player expectations. GW very nearly went that route with AoS, but they ran into a serious problem. Their whales actually wanted competitive rules and erroneously believed that past editions were perfectly adequate and that current GW was capable of writing them. GW then had to do a 180 in design philosophy without actually addressing any of the problems that make competitive play impossible in AoS and slapped a points value onto everything so that their customer base would stop whining and would go back to throwing money away.
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Jul 11, 2017 01:19
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 11:16 |
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I'm watching a DBMM tournament. 45 minutes into the round and people are still rolling dice to determine the effects of weather. I think one table has started moving bases.
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Jul 15, 2017 08:48
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