- ijyt
- Apr 10, 2012
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They named the 8th death thread 3rd edition
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May 12, 2017 07:23
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May 2, 2024 23:02
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- ijyt
- Apr 10, 2012
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We've talked about expanding the scope and purpose of the Death Thread for awhile and this seemed like as good an opportunity as any to do so. It's not really meant to be a safe space since criticism and discussion of specific games have been going on in those threads for awhile now. But I liked how the Death Thread talked about miniature gaming and the industry as a whole. We've just been using bagging on GW as an excuse to do that and I don't think it necessary and GW is hardly the only example of lovely behavior in the industry. I'm hoping someone does a nice write-up of Mierce for instance and why you should stay the hell away or what the risks are of getting involved with the guys that do Dystopian Wars.
LOL
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May 12, 2017 07:32
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- ijyt
- Apr 10, 2012
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The miniature games industry is a fascinating one, but the people running it often seem to either have no clue what they're doing or to actively hate their customers. For a luxury, niche product, the companies that produce them appear more interested in telling their customers what they want rather than making informed decisions about the industry or market. Further, these companies are also held hostage by their dedicated fanbases, which look upon every change in the rules or design with dread and disdain.
What's this thread for then?
This thread is the place to go when a company that makes miniature games does something stupid and you want to talk about it. This could be a major revision, a botched release, or just a personal experience with lousy customer service.
This is also the thread to talk about comparative design and mechanics between games. While I think most people are fine with some criticism of the games they play in their dedicated threads, they can be distracting from actual discussion of the game so having a dedicated place to talk about why one game does THIS but another game insists on doing THAT means that no toes get stepped on.
This is also the thread to go to to ask which games you should try out and to see what's coming on the horizon. Since we don't seem to have a general releases thread, past Death Threads have been a great place for people who follow one game to keep up with the goings on in another and to find gems that they would otherwise miss.
And if you have weird experiences playing a game, this is probably a more appropriate place to talk about it than in the thread for the game you were playing. Just trying to play a game of X-Wing when a guy told you that Hitler did nothing wrong? We'd love to hear about it.
What's this thread not for?
We're not here to pick on any one company. Every company has its pros and cons. This is just a collection of those and to look at the industry in general. This is an exciting time as companies are actually looking to modernize and there are more games on the market and being played than ever before. But why can't anyone seem to match order demand? Why are companies so hesitant to divorce the hobby from the game? Why are mechanics still using design concepts from the 80s?
Dramatis Personæ
Catalyst Game Labs
A small operation that like most small operations in this industry can often be boiled down to a single guy: Randall Bills. This man has a lot of passion for what he does, but is caught between a rock and a hard place. Should he update Battletech to appeal to a wide audience or should he pretty much keep it as it is so as not to risk 30 years of groggy rage.
Notable Games: Battletech
Boneheaded Moves: Currently working on a new edition of Battletech, but no rules are actually being changed because they're too small to risk losing the dedicated base. They've attempted to circumvent this by releasing an alternative rules set called "Alpha Strike" with more modern play mechanics. They were also working on a brand new miniature game property Leviathans but this seems to have vanished after they got "Palladiumed" by an employee who wanted a new porch. They've also talked about hard plastics for years, but have never committed for ~reasons~.
Fantasy Flight Games
The "new kids on the block" of the industry. They made their name making board games before securing the Star Wars license and releasing X-Wing. After officially breaking up with Games Workshop, they've now released their own fantasy mass battle game.
Notable Games: Star Wars X-Wing, Star Wars Armada, Runewars
Boneheaded Moves: Players are still frustrated by the model used in X-Wing that requires them to buy ships they don't want in order to get upgrade cards they need. They've sworn not to do this in their Runewars miniatures game, but so long as it prints money in X-Wing there's no reason to think that it will stop. The figures in Runewars also have players divided. Some of the sculpts are OK and others are mediocre to bad, but the real issue is that they're not pre-painted. It seems fans were hoping to get the X-Wing treatment and people and burnt out on painting up hordes of soldiers before being able to play a game.
Games Workshop
The largest name in the industry, everyone knows these guys and most of us got started in the hobby because of them. In fact, "the hobby" has often been ubiquitous with Games Workshop and its products. They've had some highs and lows, but recent changes in leadership and a new edition of 40k have fans cautiously optimistic.
Boneheaded Moves: The release of Age of Sigmar was an unmitigated disaster and the rules for it are still terrible, but they actually appear to be listening to what fans want and are trying to avoid the same thing happening with the new edition of 40k.
Mantic Games
Kickstarter superstars who are trying to be "Games Workshop but not evil". This of course does not make them an inherently good company. They rely far too much on Kickstarter and several of their supporters are suffering fatigue from long wait times, production and shipping issues, and products not meeting expectations.
Notable Games: Kings of War, Warpath Universe
Boneheaded Moves: For every decent rule they release, they're contractually obligated to release two bad models. Retailers are hesitant to stock them since most people who play their games just get everything off Kickstarter at a steep discount. Their customer service is garbage, though with the introduction of a ticket system in 2016 this has improved dramatically. While trying to compete against Warhammer 40k, they decided to release two games rather than putting their full weight behind one even though everyone told them again and again that no one wants a sci-fi mass battle game at 28mm scale.
Osprey
Who needs models when you can just release a different book every week? Osprey is unique in that they focus far more on releasing rules than on releasing figures. That doesn't mean they don't partner with companies to release models for their games, it's just not a focus of their company. More known for historicals than anything else, they've started to dip their toes in fantasy and sci-fi gaming.
Notable Games: Frostgrave, Lion Rampant
Boneheaded Moves: Most of their games are only 64 pages long. This means that it's common for situations to arise that aren't covered in the rules. The rules themselves also aren't widely test-played, resulting in broken mechanics that don't hold up in competitive play. This has been a major problem with Frostgrave and has caused fans to write dozens of pages of houserules and fixes that should have been part of the core game to begin with. They also have products competing against one another so it can be confusing for customers unfamiliar with the company or its products to know what they should be buying. Wait, which sci-fi skirmish game was I looking for?
Privateer Press (thanks Luebbi!)
With a focus on the competitive scene, PP pride themselves on writing concise rules that do not leave room for interpretation. They’ve grown a lot since their early days, and have expanded their Warmachine and Hordes brands to several other markets, including card games and RPG’s.
Notable Games: Warmachine and Hordes
Boneheaded moves: The release of their newest edition last summer was rocky at best. After community outcry they rebalanced an entire faction from the ground up, but others still have lots of internal discrepancies (why should I take X, when Y does more and costs less). Meanwhile they killed their volunteer Pressgang program with no warning, gutted their forums to a barebones affair, and raised prices on new products to 60$ for a single character Warbeast. Right now they’re busy releasing theme-forces, which limit your army composition but give benefits, including free models. The usefulness of these varies from “why would I ever take this” to “I can play what I played already, get ~20% more points and take away my opponent’s advance deployment, gutting certain armies”. Seems fair.
Warlord Games
These guys are trying to make historic games more palatable to the masses by focusing on "cinematic" gameplay over "historical accuracy". They also have Rick Perry on board who is trying to push the company in new directions with his sci-fi game Gates of Antares and a rumored fantasy game in the future.
Notable Games: Bolt Action, Beyond the Gates of Antares
Boneheaded Moves: They don't quite have their fingers on the pulse of the market and as a result faced production problems on their samurai skirmish game Test of Honour resulting in shortages to stores. Some changes to Bolt Action 2nd Edition have also left fans less than enthused about the direction the game is going in.
I am hardly an expect on the industry and this list is just to get things started. If you would like to add to, or contradict, what I've written about the above companies or would like to add another company, please post below and I'll edit it into the OP.
This OP truly is grandiose in a niche
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May 12, 2017 08:07
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- ijyt
- Apr 10, 2012
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We've talked about expanding the scope and purpose of the Death Thread for awhile
1. who is we
1a. is it the voices in your head
2. how did you get that from gundams and possum posting
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May 12, 2017 08:35
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- ijyt
- Apr 10, 2012
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The fact that their kickstarter delivery for Dropfleet was late, and then inconsistent and their communication was poor verging on nonexistent. The biggest screw up with it though was that most people didn't get their stuff until it had already hit retail, and the people who backed for the most money got their stuff last. Which of course is exactly the way to treat people who invest a buttload of cash into your game. Also, Hawk Dave writes rules that can be charitably described as "wobbly", that leave major problems with balance. The traditional mechanism to fixing balance has been releasing randomised card draw mechanics, which are sort of compulsory but lots of people refuse to play with.
Like gently caress, that was lovely entitled gamers being lovely entitled gamers. Kickstarter is not a store. They communicated non-stop on their Kickstarter progress. They did triple shifts. Some manchild had to wait an extra month or two for a product that may not have existed if not for the backer money boo loving hoo.
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May 12, 2017 12:43
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May 2, 2024 23:02
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- ijyt
- Apr 10, 2012
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Got my poo poo in February when people in my local scene could purchase it in October. You're right, it's not a store. It turns out waiting for a store to stock it would've hurried the whole process along by a third of a year.
They made the call to ship to retail before most backers had their poo poo. They had perfectly rational reasons for doing it, and backers are perfectly reasonable in being pissed about it.
Nah.
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Jun 26, 2017 08:20
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May 12, 2017 07:23
