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In my limited experience and talking with our lighting department head, yea, it's doable (but generally not recommended). He will occasionally use our normal 3 pin audio XLR in a pinch but it's not ideal for high-end applications. For what you're doing though, I'd say give it a shot if you know what you're doing. I mean, it should work but the only other thing he mentioned was sticking a DMX terminator on the last light in the chain. In terms of affecting the audio signal, most likely it won't but it's hard say since there are so many variables at play with the power situation, brand of gear and a whole slew of other things. All in all, people do this in bars and small clubs all the time and it does work out but your experience may vary. e: 
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Dec 7, 2017 19:18
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From what little lighting I remember, you're more likely to run into issues with ghosting and other funky effects on the lights than interference on the audio. DMX is a data signal, as opposed to the balanced waveform in the audio signal. There's no error correction, and the impedance of the wires have an effect.. A terminator should help, but if you get weird issues, you'll have to run a new cable. Fortunately, if you don't want to deal with buying or making your own data cable, cat5 with adapters at the ends works just as well for long runs like that.
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Dec 12, 2017 04:12
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Thanks for the advice! I'll take the time to do it right and have a separate DMX run. New question: if you're too cheap for in ear monitors what's a good around the ear headphone for people with glasses? I've tried like every variation of Sony MDR but they all start to hurt after an hour or two. I like the sound of my Beyerdynamic 990, but it's open backed so there's a lot of leakage and they weigh enough that your neck starts to kink after a while.
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Dec 16, 2017 23:22
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Thanks for the advice! I'll take the time to do it right and have a separate DMX run. I use an Audio Technica ATH-M50 when I mix FOH, they're closed backed with generous padding and very comfortable on top of my glasses.
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Dec 17, 2017 01:13
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Thanks for the advice! I'll take the time to do it right and have a separate DMX run. I've used a pair of Sennheiser HD280s for years at FOH and they've done me proud. A little on the bulky side compared to others, but they isolate well. On a totally unrelated note to the question above, just gonna throw this out there: I work for an audio gear rental house that specializes in wireless mics, so if anybody has burning questions about the black magic that is RF, I'd be happy to answer (to the best of my ability). Edit: I also have about 6 years experience mixing live musicals at a major regional theater, for what that's worth. Musicals are kind of their own particular brand of madness and I'd be happy to share what I can about that too. MockingQuantum fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Jan 2, 2018 |
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Jan 2, 2018 06:56
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MockingQuantum posted:On a totally unrelated note to the question above, just gonna throw this out there: I work for an audio gear rental house that specializes in wireless mics, so if anybody has burning questions about the black magic that is RF, I'd be happy to answer (to the best of my ability). Are y'all renting out more 1 RU bi- or quad- receiver setups like the ULX-D these days, or is it still largely racks of stacks of single channel receivers like the ULX-S? Do y'all rent out anything that uses the 2.4GHZ ISM band, and if so how well is that working for your clients? I have a pair of SM58s that use it for situations outside our regular venue where I don't want to break apart my UHF rack for a one-off, but I'm still super weary when deploying them since there is a lot more things using the same spectrum. Haven't had any issues yet and the battery life is great (10-14hrs on a charge), but I haven't seen any touring groups come through with them or any other local venues make use of them yet so I'm still a little paranoid about relying on them.
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Jan 2, 2018 08:20
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ickna posted:Are y'all renting out more 1 RU bi- or quad- receiver setups like the ULX-D these days, or is it still largely racks of stacks of single channel receivers like the ULX-S? To your first question, it's a mix. A little over half our inventory is Sennheiser G3 ew100, which are all single-channel receivers. We usually have them in either 8-channel or 4 channel racks, just to simplify logistics and shipping. We have a lot of those in part because we supply a ton of wireless to local schools/churches/colleges for musicals, and the price point on Sennheiser stuff is a little lower than the rest of our inventory. The rest of said inventory is mostly Shure ULXD quads or duals, though we still have a healthy representation of UHFR since they show up on a lot more production company and live music riders and will probably continue to do so until they're totally unusable or can't be had for love or money. As far as 2.4ghz stuff is concerned, we don't currently have any and are pretty gun-shy about them, given our past experience with them. I've used some of the GLXD out in the wild as a mixer and they've been pretty unreliable, lots of momentary dropouts though I never had any fail completely for a long period of time. I think the issue with 2.4ghz will always be exactly what you said-- it's a congested band, and you have to deal with the fact that the number of people in the room with cell phones can drastically affect performance in a way that you can't always predict or compensate for. I would be amazed if you ever saw anyone tour with 2.4ghz, but I think it's less scary of a proposition if you're using them in the same space regularly and know where they work and where they don't. Other considerations are your channel count will have to stay low, and range will always be short compared to TV band UHF. 2.4 is more susceptible to multi-path interference, too, and even with diversity antennas there's only so much you can do about it. The one thing we do have in 2.4ghz are tour guide systems, which actually work pretty well, but they tend to be limited range needs and aren't really intended to do CD quality audio (wow that phrase has become dated). I wouldn't be amazed if we start to see more DECT band stuff popping up---we have a couple of the Sennheiser AVX, which are DECT, and they actually work pretty well, but they still have the issues of low channel count and shorter range. AVX is designed for run-and-gun ENG stuff though, so I'm not sure how well they'd work in live production settings. I know that's probably way more info than you wanted, but I figured it's useful stuff for anybody else who is curious.
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Jan 2, 2018 16:49
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MockingQuantum posted:I know that's probably way more info than you wanted, but I figured it's useful stuff for anybody else who is curious. Nonsense, that is exactly the kind of info I was hoping to get. I hadn't thought about multi-path issue either, so I'll definitely take that into consideration when deciding to send them out. I've always pushed for hard-wired connections on anything production related as much as possible, no matter how reliable it seems during rehearsals, due to your point about filling a room with bodies and cell phones is going to change things in unpredictable ways. Or sometimes there's an event in an adjacent venue where an outside production company brings in a rack of wireless that overlap (or worse, use the same group and channel) yours and fire them up during your performance. I still would never depend on anything that depends on an iPad for control, or wireless DMX during a performance, no matter how many hotshot kids come in talking about how well it works for them at their church every Sunday.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:14
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MockingQuantum posted:
this is a really useful serious thread right now, but i always love hearing war stories, if you wanna elaborate
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Jan 7, 2018 07:06
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Another random-rear end q but have any of y'all used a gaffgun before? The idea seems really nice.
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Jan 21, 2018 03:04
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Hey all, my band is looking to upgrade our unpowered mixer since we are out of inputs and generally want more abilities with our equipment. We currently have this, running two powered Mackie mains and two to three powered monitors: Soundcraft Signature 12 We want more inputs (roughly double, so 16 balanced inputs, 24 channels total) and more groups/aux sends for different monitor mixes. A power switch would also be a nice feature... nice job with that one Soundcraft. One of the options we are considering is this: Allen Heath 24 We will be purchasing from GC to use an employee discount. Is this a good option in this general price range, or are there other recommendations for this sort of feature set? Anything we may be overlooking, or features that we should look for in this range of equipment? Thanks for any help, we have a general idea of what to look for with mains but not really what to look for with mixers.
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Jan 29, 2018 16:40
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The only thing that I would questing on that Allen and Heath would be that it seems like 2 of the aux sends are fixed on "post fade" and it doesn't have any built in effects. I tried looking into some of the Mackie stuff quick but it's a bit more expensive for the VLZ (and doesn't have built in effects) and the ProFX series doesn't have enough aux sends. I know you already had one but this Soundcraft might be a little closer to what you're shooting for: http://www.guitarcenter.com/Soundcraft/Signature-22MTK-22-Channel-Multi-Track-Mixer.gc It appears to have 3 prefade auxes, 2 fx send which can also be post-fade auxes and enough channels to do what you want. Ideally, you want something that works and fits your needs and budget but also have a little room and flexibility to provide for the future so you're not running out and buying near gear every year. Unfortunately, I cannot speak to the capabilities of the Presonus stuff but hopefully else here can. I hear good things though for something like this situation.
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Feb 4, 2018 06:16
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i am kiss u now posted:The only thing that I would questing on that Allen and Heath would be that it seems like 2 of the aux sends are fixed on "post fade" and it doesn't have any built in effects. I tried looking into some of the Mackie stuff quick but it's a bit more expensive for the VLZ (and doesn't have built in effects) and the ProFX series doesn't have enough aux sends. I know you already had one but this Soundcraft might be a little closer to what you're shooting for: http://www.guitarcenter.com/Soundcraft/Signature-22MTK-22-Channel-Multi-Track-Mixer.gc It appears to have 3 prefade auxes, 2 fx send which can also be post-fade auxes and enough channels to do what you want. Ideally, you want something that works and fits your needs and budget but also have a little room and flexibility to provide for the future so you're not running out and buying near gear every year. I use a Signature 22 on the reg and it's a pretty decent board but one thing that you want to be aware of is that its subgroups and aux sends only go out through 1/4" cable, so if you made need some 1/4" -> XLR adapters if you're using those for monitor outs. I have a similar-range Mackie VLZ board and I'll say that the Signature 22 is definitely a better board with more routing options but it's probably like $100 or so more expensive.
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Feb 4, 2018 10:21
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Thanks for the insight, it's helping us to determine our priorities for our general setup down the road. Currently the Soundcraft 22mtk and Allen and Heath ZED22fx are the frontrunners for analog boards. Out of nowhere, someone started talking about digital boards so that's a possibility now too... Behringer is Behringer so they're not exactly a top contender, but this Soundcraft digital mixer seems pretty solid. It's at the upper range of our budget, but it has enough outs for everybody to have their own monitor mix and plenty of inputs too. Up to 10 people can be connected at once, it uses a web server instead of an app so OS changes shouldn't break the functionality, and it can take keyboard/mouse and an hdmi computer monitor as well. Any device that can handle a relatively modern web browser can operate the mixer. Even our technology-averse guitarist likes it! Any experience with digital boards? My pessimistic side sees potential for catastrophe, but the Soundcraft setup seems to alleviate a lot of my qualms and the potential advantages are massive. It would fit in a rack as well, unlike those analog boards. We were hoping to get a rack system as well, and the digital mixer would make that an easy process. EDIT: looks like Allen and Heath also make one - haven't read up on it yet, but it's a thing. The Science Goy fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Feb 5, 2018 |
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Feb 5, 2018 18:59
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I haven't used any of those particular mixers but the rack-mount, tablet models are becoming increasingly popular amongst smaller bands. Let me see if we have anything around the shop or anyone else around here has used one. I would definitely say that if it's in your budget, and you can become fairly adept at using one, go for it. They really do have a lot of flexibility, they're pretty small and compact and are fairly user friendly.
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Feb 6, 2018 02:50
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1000 umbrellas posted:Freelance engineer chiming in from Austin, TX. I've been here for a year, worked in NYC for 6 before that. Total of 10 years in the business. Ask me about : So it's basically Portland, OR? For context, I'm a guitar player who's used to guerrilla sound builds from DJing parties in rural areas, whose bass player is a Brooklyn-based producer/DJ/performer who's played on 5 continents with artists like Bill Laswell and John Zorn. It's the two of us in the band, with our backing beats running out of a Macbook/Scarlett thru a PA behind us when we don't have a dummer. (Last drummer to play with us was KJ Sawka, which was a hell of a treat!) Two mics, two instruments through amps, and a subharmonic synth Y'd off the bass guitar into a sub or PA. Our punch list is short. We're pros. We play punk-ish drum n bass shoegaze, so being loud and distorted is part of the show. This is not hard. We're constantly stunned at how poo poo Portland is for playing live music if you're not traveling with an army of personnel to run interference as everything goes wrong around you. Just got done last night playing a benefit gig where no fewer than 2 other bands asked to use our PA, despite there being a PA on hand. As we were hauling gear in, another girl was leaving in tears, ranting about how she would have brought her own gear if she'd known there wouldn't be any for her to use. The promoter promised us a sound guy and proper hardware; he gave us each a dime bag of quartz sand from a beach somewhere instead. No, it's not drugs. It's sand. From a beach. IT'S WINTER IN PORTLAND. WHAT KIND OF rear end in a top hat ARE YOU? On the upside, Lagunitas provided free beer, so at least I was able to get lit for free.
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Feb 12, 2018 01:16
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Fun fact, when I started out in the upper midwest (Minneapolis), I was asked if I could mix on a tour for a local midlist band. I was basically told by the tour manager, flat out, that my day rate couldn't be any lower than $300 or I'd be horrendously undercutting local engineers. That's not counting per diem for food and tour expenses, too. Ultimately I didn't get the gig, but around here people occasionally get taken aside and given an earful if they ask below a certain rate because it kind of just hurts everyone and results in bad work. I mean, it's great, but it's also bizarre, given we're not really a huge music destination where engineers can demand particularly high pay. I think it's a different world once you get into smaller shows and DJ type stuff though. Amazingly, one guy who started out just a couple of years before me now won't leave his house for less than a $900 daily rate and regularly gets it, though he works more as a production manager than a mixer these days.
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Feb 12, 2018 07:18
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:So it's basically Portland, OR?
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Feb 16, 2018 06:06
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So I need a PA for playing small bars. It would mainly be used for vocals and possibly some drums like the kick. Right now I’ve been looking at either a Yamaha or Mackie 8-12 XLR input mixer and a couple of QSC K12’s. Problem with that is cost, once I get that I’m gonna need speaker stands cables and poo poo and that will add even more. If I buy all brand new I’m looking at like 2500$ possibly. More or less what I’m asking is do I need that much? I don’t want to buy crap but some of those all in one packages around 1000$ are a bit tempting. I’m assuming active speakers and an unpowered mixer are the way to go? Some of those fuckers that all fold up into one unit seem pretty convenient though. Right now it’s just the three of us, bass, drums, and guitar and we’re just getting started. But I’d like to be prepared for more people or bigger shows in the future also. You never know what’s gonna happen right? We’re actively searching for another guitar player and some keyboards.
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Feb 17, 2018 21:19
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What area are you in? You might consider contacting an A/V company; some of them sell their old/worn gear off for below MSRP. I'll just add that I've been using a lot of K10s and 10.2s recently and they really put out a lot of noise for their size; you might be able to get away with two 10s and a K sub for the kick. Not sure how much/if that'd save you anything though. VVV:   bro
Grand Prize Winner fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Feb 19, 2018 |
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Feb 17, 2018 22:39
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Lol wow never mind, amazing how quickly a band can fall apart. Looks like I’m starting over again from scratch. Maybe I’ll start trying to do some solo poo poo. Wife will be happy I don’t need a PA anymore. I guess that’s something.
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Feb 19, 2018 22:27
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Musicians? Flaky?
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Feb 20, 2018 07:39
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Yeah loving bass player man. It’s karma loving me on this one. The drummer kicked our old bass player out cause he was bad with pills and was always so hosed up that he was forgetting poo poo. We had a new guy lined up before we kicked this guy and the new guy just hosed us and quit before his first practice. And we asked him in the first place if he was willing to replace this other guy and he said yes. Then after 2 weeks of telling us he was working on the set list he called 20 min before practice and said he didn’t wanna do it anymore. Now drug addict bass guy hates us for booting him and we’re back to just drums and guitar. I mean in the long run dude was gonna be a problem but we coulda limped along and kept doing open mics and poo poo until we filled out the band with more people. I feel like an rear end in a top hat lol.
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Feb 20, 2018 18:28
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God forbid you have standards
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Feb 21, 2018 00:29
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Yeah for sure, it’s the right call in the long run. I just let myself get too hyped up that we were gonna start really putting some work in to start getting paid to play music again. I always loved the fact that after gigging for the first year with my old band I had basically paid myself back for all the gear I bought up to that point.
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Feb 21, 2018 01:05
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Thanks for the input on mixer selection - we decided to go with the Soundcraft digital mixer. After 2 rehearsals we have just scratched the surface of its capabilities, but it is already giving us more capability than our previous mixer. We will try recording with it this weekend, then it gets to see it's first shows next weekend. 
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Feb 21, 2018 16:50
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Currently I play clarinet and flute through a condenser into a preamp and into a looper pedal, etc. Can anyone suggest a battery-powered mic (pref 1/4" connector) that I can use so I don't have to lug a preamp and expensive mic around?
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Feb 27, 2018 16:51
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A preamp is pretty unavoidable. A small mic is pretty doable though.
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Feb 27, 2018 18:40
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Yeah there may be something purpose-built for this sort of application, but I'm not aware of it. You can find condenser mics that will take batteries, but the battery is generally just for supplying phantom power. You'll still have a mic that outputs at mic level, which generally doesn't play exceptionally well with pedals, though it depends heavily on both the mic and the pedal. Also as a general rule of thumb, hardwired mics (ie mics where the cable is physically wired into the mic) that terminate to 1/4" are almost universally trash, in my experience. It used to be that any and all hardwired mics were worthless and prone to failure because they tended to be incredibly cheap. Anything worthwhile would use some standard professional form-factor. That said, I haven't looked around for them in ages, so there may be some instrument mic out there that explicitly exists to be plugged into pedals. The internet has made it a lot more fiscally feasible for weird niche mics like that to be made. If you're looking for a very small profile mic like some of the DPAs or Shure Beta98s or whatever, they'll all have either a transformer tube (which will need phantom power) or a battery-powered transformer (which will be a beltpack, and kind of bulky, but probably less so than a big honking preamp) but once again I have no idea whether they'd output at a level the pedal will appreciate.
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Feb 27, 2018 18:48
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NC Wyeth Death Cult posted:Currently I play clarinet and flute through a condenser into a preamp and into a looper pedal, etc. Can anyone suggest a battery-powered mic (pref 1/4" connector) that I can use so I don't have to lug a preamp and expensive mic around? What are you doing this for? What is the set up like (the rest of the signal chain)? If you're just using it for like live "lounge" stuff or in bars or cafes, just use a SM58 on a boom stand like you would for a vocal. People forget that all the "sound" of these instruments comes from the holes on top and not from the bell or opening at the bottom. i am kiss u now fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Feb 28, 2018 |
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Feb 28, 2018 03:51
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A quick google search showed me this Sennheiser dynamic but I have no idea how good it is. Loos like it's designed to clip onto the bell of a woodwind/horn so it might work well if you like to kinda dance around while you play. https://en-us.sennheiser.com/instrument-microphone-saxophones-trumpets-drums-wind-instruments-congas-percussion-e-608
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Feb 28, 2018 03:56
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Thanks everyone for the advice! I appreciate your time.
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Feb 28, 2018 17:26
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Had a tryout this weekend with a new guitar player and bass player. They had a full practice setup with an electronic drum kit and an amp so we just went there with a guitar and some drumsticks. Dude had a full PA in his basement but they were all turned down so low that it was like we were whispering to each other. loving amp was a peavy and sounded shrill as gently caress, no matter what I did to the eq I couldn’t get it to not sound like I was playing through a smoke detector. I’ve never played so quietly in my life and the practice didn’t go very well. It wasn’t god awful but I didn’t leave with the excitement I usually feel after a righteous jam session. I thought about this thread title and it really rang true. If they aren’t willing to crank the volume there is probably a reason for it.
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Mar 5, 2018 17:30
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Harton posted:Had a tryout this weekend with a new guitar player and bass player. They had a full practice setup with an electronic drum kit and an amp so we just went there with a guitar and some drumsticks. Dude had a full PA in his basement but they were all turned down so low that it was like we were whispering to each other. loving amp was a peavy and sounded shrill as gently caress, no matter what I did to the eq I couldn’t get it to not sound like I was playing through a smoke detector. I’ve never played so quietly in my life and the practice didn’t go very well. It wasn’t god awful but I didn’t leave with the excitement I usually feel after a righteous jam session. I thought about this thread title and it really rang true. If they aren’t willing to crank the volume there is probably a reason for it. If the neighbors aren't calling the cops on you, you aren't doing it right. This is why I no longer live in an apartment.
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Mar 5, 2018 21:06
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:If the neighbors aren't calling the cops on you, you aren't doing it right. Lol right? I remember shopping for my house and planning on where I was gonna put the jam room vs proximity to my neighbors houses. Can’t just buy anywhere or anything when you plan on having drums and amps going at all hours of the night.
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Mar 6, 2018 00:36
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Harton posted:Lol right? I remember shopping for my house and planning on where I was gonna put the jam room vs proximity to my neighbors houses. Can’t just buy anywhere or anything when you plan on having drums and amps going at all hours of the night. Also, if you're looking to rent studio space, be sure the other people in the building know you're going to be loud. Just because the guy you're subletting from says it's cool doesn't mean the building owner won't flip out when you're working on mixing down breakcore tracks at 2pm on a Wednesday. I think the only good solution is to have a house with some land around it, and maybe a detached garage or full basement to play in.
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Mar 6, 2018 00:48
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I know this is probably a long shot, but anybody in here ever mixed a musical on a Behringer X32? I'm programming one for a show I'm designing and I'm trying to cheat in dumb ways, I figure there's probably a correct approach with this board (just using DCAs and snippets) but I refuse to use it unless it's the only option. A question that may be more in the wheelhouse of general X32 knowledge: is there anywhere to attenuate the signal on a channel? It doesn't really matter if it's pre- or post-fader, I think. It would just need to be pre-bus/aux/matrix send. In theory could do it with the head amp/preamp gain, assuming the input signal is hot enough to do what I want to do, I'm just wondering if there's anywhere else in the signal chain.
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Apr 6, 2018 04:18
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MockingQuantum posted:I know this is probably a long shot, but anybody in here ever mixed a musical on a Behringer X32? I'm programming one for a show I'm designing and I'm trying to cheat in dumb ways, I figure there's probably a correct approach with this board (just using DCAs and snippets) but I refuse to use it unless it's the only option. I've been using an X32 Producer for a couple years, and AFAIK preamp gain is the only attenuation control. If you end up finding out otherwise let me know. Gonna re-read the manual now to see if I've forgotten.
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Apr 6, 2018 04:57
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Definitely pre-amp gain
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Apr 6, 2018 04:59
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ickna posted:Definitely pre-amp gain Yup. I've used a x32 for a bunch of concerts, including 15+ band festivals, but never a musical. I've never played with the DCAs, but scenes/snippets have made every multi-band concert I've run go super smooth.
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Apr 6, 2018 06:26
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