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NumbersAndNoise posted:Would folks here be able recommend a cheap PA setup for a rock band micing violin and vocals for house shows in garages, living rooms, and cafes? Or any advice for buying used? Need to be heard over a drummer. Is under $300 realistic? Under $300 is house brand level sound gear for an all-in-one PA. A pair of 100w-ish 10"/12" speakers and a bare-bones 4-6 channel powered mixer from Kustom/Harbinger/Phonic/other no-name for a reason brand. No stands and only maybe cables. They tend to be fragile, underpowered, and very difficult to fix. But they put out sound. And for the locations you said, 100w might be enough to fill the space, but might not be enough to break through your fellow bandmates. What's your full instrumentation? Drummer playing a full kit?
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Aug 4, 2017 22:59
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peter gabriel posted:A buddy of mine runs open mic / small gigs and has one of these: Yeah, all-in-ones kits like these work pretty well. Peavey Escort, Fender Passport, even JBL's Eon series is coming out with a couple. Biggest downside is that you can't expand those systems. If you decide that you want to add a sub, or bigger speakers, or monitors, you're SOL. (The JBL Eon all-in-one has an RCA monitor out and a sub out, but not a separate monitor mix). Plus they tend to be pricier than other packages (paying for form factor), and still are pretty low-powered compared to a passive pa setup. But if all you want something simple, works right out of the box, and is easy to setup and move, they're good for tiny setups. Long as your drummer has something resembling control or a pair of bundlestix. And your guitarist turns his stuff down. At the price point you're looking at, you've got options, but there will be trade-offs in features, power, and expandability. poo poo, I didn't do my introduction. I'm self-taught local crew guy. Started in my HS theatre, then joined my university's production "company" my freshman year (14 years ago, sigh) and helped them grow from a 2500w Peavey setup to a 13600w+ Crown Xti/JBL SRX700 & Behringer X32 system. I've been their senior most FOH guy for 10 years, getting called in to work events even when I was out of school. I did a bunch of concert booking and running for my campus programming board, and worked as a party/wedding dj on the side with my little yamaha & crown setup. Biggest band I ever mixed for was either Pomeroy or Black Violin. We're a very seat-of-our-pants self-taught operation, but we can put out good techs.
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Aug 5, 2017 02:43
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From what little lighting I remember, you're more likely to run into issues with ghosting and other funky effects on the lights than interference on the audio. DMX is a data signal, as opposed to the balanced waveform in the audio signal. There's no error correction, and the impedance of the wires have an effect.. A terminator should help, but if you get weird issues, you'll have to run a new cable. Fortunately, if you don't want to deal with buying or making your own data cable, cat5 with adapters at the ends works just as well for long runs like that.
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Dec 12, 2017 04:12
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ickna posted:Definitely pre-amp gain Yup. I've used a x32 for a bunch of concerts, including 15+ band festivals, but never a musical. I've never played with the DCAs, but scenes/snippets have made every multi-band concert I've run go super smooth.
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Apr 6, 2018 06:26
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MockingQuantum posted:On the subject of snippets, do you know if there's a way to "insert" a snippet? I'll be using the Cues page since the show will be a combination of scenes and snippets, so in theory I can assign whatever snippet I want to whatever cue I want, but I'd love to be able to insert a cue and/or snippet once I've built the show in case I find a sequence or song is too complex or whatever. It's likely to happen since I have a totally green board op for this show. On the board? You should be able to renumber scenes and snippets. Should similar to changing the name of the scene/snippet. It's cumbersome but doable. Don't think you can on the iPad app, and I'm sure it's possible in the X32-edit windows/macos app. But I've never used X32-edit.
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Apr 6, 2018 06:50
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Mastigophoran posted:Violin player has a pickup (1/4 inch I think) I'd see if these require a Direct Input box for the pickups. If they're balanced 1/4", then you're fine. If they're unbalanced 1/4", A DI box could improve the sound. A quick way to tell is to plug the instrument into the mixer, mix the instrument normally, and listen for a hum. If it hums, A DI will usually fix that. Tracking down the manuals for the pickups would help too. Mastigophoran posted:What we don't have: If you can afford an internal pickup for your accordion, go with that. Otherwise I'd start with a sm57 on a boom stand and go from there. Don't worry about mic'ing the drummer if they're playing on a drum kit. You're at the level where you're mixing so everyone else can be heard over them. How does the drummer play the recorder/whistle? If it's an either/or kind of thing (they play drums on one song, then get up and play the recorder on a different song), just set up a SM58 or other vocal mic off to the side for them. Play around with it and see what placement gives you the best sound for each instrument (e.g. the end of the recorder vs. the top, it'll probably be the end though). It'd be the same if they're playing on a Bodhrán, vocal mic and experiment. I'd ask BFC about insurance and/or managing ownership. Probably best to track down a lawyer to draw up a simple contract for the group covering that stuff. Handling insurance could probably be included in the agreement. Mastigophoran posted:Things I don't know about : Channels 1-6 are mono, Channels 7/8 and 9/10 are stereo if you use them as pairs. If you want to run 7/8 or 9/10 as mono, just plug into 7 or 9. Channels 1-6 are balanced, so if you do use the 1/4" jacks, you'd want to use a TRS ("stereo") cable if the mics or pickups can do a balanced output. One less source for weird buzzes and hums. Like cell phones by computer speakers. Channels 7/8 and 9/10 are unbalanced TS 1/4" jacks. Mastigophoran posted:Phantom Power and XLR Stick to one instrument a channel. I'll whip up a channel list at the end that should work for you guys. Trying to imagine the gain structure that'd have to be done to run two separate instruments on the same channel on that mixer is giving me an eye twitch. GPW covered the rest that I'd say. Mastigophoran posted:How should the keyboard be integrated? The mono send might work, there's only one way to find out. But it also might introduce distortions because of the gain structure you'd have to do. If it's a PSR 170, or similar keyboard with a single stereo output, and with your mixer, splitters are your best option. Without using the monitor mix on your mixer, split the 1/4" output into 2 TRS 1/4". One goes to they keyboardist, either headphones or a practice amp, the other goes to the mixer. The mixer signal gets split into from one 1/4" TRS into two 1/4" TS or RCA, and plugged into the stereo line channels (7/8 or 9/10). You're not going to miss the eq on the keyboard channel. It's usually not necessary for keys in general. If you want to use the monitor mix on the board, you don't need the TRS splitter at the keyboard. And you just need a TS 1/4" to run to the monitor. Mastigophoran posted:Do we (really) need a monitor solution? If you can hear everybody on stage and play together, monitors aren't a need. They're nice, but unnecessary. I've never mixed a ceilidh bands, but I'd approach the problem from this way. 1) Can everyone hear themselves? If no, that's who needs a monitor the most. 2) What does each player need to hear to stay together? Can they hear it now? If not, that goes in the mix until they are comfortable. 3) What does each vocalist need to hear to be in tune? Can they hear it now? If not, that goes in the mix until they are comfortable. 4) If you're changing tunes based on the caller, and not a setlist, can everyone hear the caller? If not, that definitely goes in the mix. Reading over your tech and making a lot of assumptions (e.g. everyone can hear the drummer/bassist fine, and the caller doesn't need to carry a tune), my starting monitor mix would be a monitor for the instrumentalists and maybe one for the rhythm section. With one mix, I'd just send caller, keys, accordions, and violin. Caller and your melodic lead(s) being the most important elements. This is only a starting guess. 2nding the rental of a small powered wedge or two and give it a shot for a practice. Even getting a tiny practice amp and angling it right can give you an idea if you need a full monitor setup, or just something for your keyboardist. So I'd set you up like this: Channel - Instrument - Mic 1 - Drummer (whistle/recorder) - Wireless 2 - Bass - Direct Input (xlr from back of amp, bass cab used to provide bass for stage) 3 - Piano Accordion - Internal Pickup (passive DI box if necessary) 4 - Diatonic Accordion - Wired (SM57 or equiv.) 5 - Violin - Internal Pickup (passive DI box if necessary) 6 - Caller - Wireless 7/8 - Keys - Direct Input (no di box) 1 monitor mix: Caller, keys, accordions, violin Channel/instrument arrangement for 1-6 is purely personal preference, but it's good to be consistent every time you setup. Helps you track down problems and makes mixing easier. If you change up your instrumentation, I'd move the bass to 9/10, then drop the bass from the mix before I tried doubling up channels. Hope this helps and I didn't miss anything. :edit: Thought about gear ownership some more. Things to get the sound from the instrument to the board could be the responsibility of the player. Like the splitters for the keyboardist or DI boxes for the internal pickups. These are things that if the band breaks up or players change, they'll most likely need it in their next band. From the mixer on would be shared band gear, and stays with the band. Could fund band gear with a cut from gigs or handle it like shares of a business. Brute Squad fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Apr 12, 2018 |
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Apr 12, 2018 19:47
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Mastigophoran posted:Hey, thanks a lot of this! They're definitely both unbalanced. They should work with the line input jacks on your mixer. If you start getting strange hums or buzzes on those channels, or start running cables more than 20' or so, invest in DI boxes. The passive single-channel ones are fairly cheap. Mastigophoran posted:The 'Drummer' changes what instrument they're playing based on the type of tune that we're playing. Additionally, when they are drumming, they don't play a kit; they're playing a single side drum with/without snare, and honestly they should probably swap to a Bodhrán. Currently they intend to use one of the 2 wireless mics, which I think is probably a bad idea, as a) I think they have a pretty narrow frequency response and b) they'll be getting mixed with the caller. The mics are a CRAGE CR-306 system, but I can't find a trace of them on the internet. I wouldn't have thought to use a vocal mic over an instrument for this but will proceed with that if it's concluded they need something. These? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CRAGE-CR...=p2047675.l2557 I only suggested using the wireless for the drummer so you wouldn't have to buy another mic. My thought process behind a vocal mic over an instrument mic is that vocal mics tend to have a more forgiving pickup pattern and do a bit better in windy/weird environments when you're mic'ing from a distance. Mastigophoran posted:For myself, I'm not sure I'm keen to get a mic on a boom set up. I've researched quite a bit on melodeon.net - a website devoted to diatonic accordions. Some people do like this set up, with a tie clip mic on their bass strap to pickup enough of what's going on back there, but, I think I like to move around too much to use that set up - those that prefer it tend to change instrument a lot. Other solutions are clip on goose neck mics such as this kind of a set up or this, and finally there are accordion specific pickups, like the microvox m310 or newer 400 series mics, or Myers Pickups do some as well - my understanding is that these are likely only mediocre but very easy to set up for gigging. I don't know anyone local to me who would be able to install an in instrument system, and a lot of people I've seen talk about them on melnet have had mixed experiences with them that kind of pushes me from really considering it. My preference at the moment is the 'good enough' gigging accordion specific mics. As someone on the other side, that's my preference too. Give me a dedicated internal or external mic designed for the instrument over a mic on a boom stand any day. You get closer to the source, meaning less gain is required to hear the instrument, which reduces the chance of feedback. And gives you a better sound. Mastigophoran posted:I've picked up a handfull of cheap adapters/splitters from Maplin today (they're closing down and selling things off quite cheaply, including potentially vaguely ok PA gear). I intend to go again before they shut up shop and try and collect some of things you've advised us to get, as well as a few more cables. Check for cheap passive DI boxes and Shure SM57/SM58 mics. The DI boxes can be used with anything with internal pickups or outputs and let's you do longer, balanced runs to your mixer. And the SM57/SM58 mics are ubiquitous in live sound. They're also pretty interchangeable if necessary, since they use the same capsule (the part of the mic that turns sound waves into electric signals). They're also rugged as hell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2BMTxzPMnk Swap out the grill and they're probably good as new. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vToepYWmOq4 Durable, cheap, and everybody uses them. Makes them easy to find, easy to use, easy to fix, and easy to get rid of if things don't work out. Mastigophoran posted:There's no vocalists, or singers, or anything like that - the caller simply provides instructions/teaches the dance (think of it as a barn dance, eg, everyone in, everyone out, lead couple go down the set etc). The rest is all music. That makes things easier on you. Caller doesn't need anything from the band, monitor wise, that they can't hear already. Mastigophoran posted:Gear ownership wise, I agree, I think we should liquidate the accordion pickup to the piano accordion player, and then put the burden of pickup gear on the players themselves, that way it's theirs to own even if things don't work out or they move on etc. Thanks for the rest of the advice, I shall take it on board. We have access to a label printer and can label the inputs up etc, and I've been working on a diagram so we know who's going to be plugged in where. I'm looking at the possibility of purchasing an active speaker for use as a monitor, too, but, a practice amp may be way better. We're not planning to get beyond the 'small school disco' tier of gear though. Practice amps are a kind of active speaker. They just usually have a few more bells and whistles. Play around with placement and angling whatever you use for monitors. A little turn or angle can make a world of difference in how things sound on stage for everyone playing. Good luck!
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Apr 15, 2018 01:56
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Chamuska posted:In a live setting at a small venue or bar, Do you recommend a bass amp sitting next to the lead guitar amp or next to the rhythm source ? Obviously the Bass amp would be between the guitars and drums. Assuming no or minimal monitor mixes, whichever guitarist needs to hear it more to keep time. I'd consider putting it on the snare-side of the drummer's kit, since they'll spend most of the time facing that direction, and drummer and bassist absolutely need to be in sync.
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Apr 15, 2018 02:04
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You'll need more power than that amp. Something that can push at least 400w/channel at 4ohms. The idea being that when you overdrive an amp you add distortion to the output, which does more damage to speakers in the long run than just overdriving them. Something like the Pyle PTA1000 would work for those speakers. https://www.amazon.com/Professional-Audio-Bluetooth-Power-Amplifier/dp/B0010K6TXQ A added bonus you be able to just buy some speakon cables to run to your speakers instead of splicing in adaptors. The mixer you picked can only handle one microphone at a time, but there are a lot of options out there for small, unpowered mixers. If you're moving things back and forth a lot and just need a simple low-powered system, there are a bunch of all-in-one luggable solutions on the market. Fender Passport, Behringer Europort, Pyle has this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FMPPVVH/, Gemini has this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SVUO8GS/. Theycome with all the cables and sometimes speaker stands.
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Jun 10, 2019 20:55
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Keep in mind the insert out will only work as an out if you only partially insert the cable in the 1/4" jack. If you insert it all the way, your mains will cut out because they're waiting on a non-existent signal to come back from the sub. The record outs could work as a sub output, but they output the signal "in stereo" before the master volume control. So you'd lose that benefit. There's no balance control, so the signal should be identical between channels.
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Jun 17, 2019 19:34
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Imaduck posted:I'm looking for a powered mixer to replace my Yamaha EMX212S that bugged out on my recently. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like Yamaha makes these anymore, and the newer models don't have an EQ, which really annoys me since they're pretty important for fighting feedback. This is mainly for a full band practice (PA will run a few vocal mics and keys) in a fairly small room. I know Behringer makes some similar products, but they have such a terrible reputation that I'm hesitant to buy anything from them. Thoughts and recommendations? The holding company that owns Behringer bought Midas about 10 years ago. They've incorporated some of Midas' tech and processes into their series of digital boards. I don't know how much has trickled down to the rest of their mixer lines, but their X32 digital series is solid. What's your price range and output power?
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Jun 24, 2019 20:40
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i've never worked with the LD MAUI44s, so I dunno about the mains. But I'm definitely chuckling at 8 wedges on a 10x20 stage.
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Oct 18, 2021 04:31
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i am absolutely baffled, and chuckling at the same time.
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Mar 23, 2022 00:01
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There's a reason I only do weddings for friends. I'm dirt cheap, I'll script and stage manage your reception, but man, I'm only doing this so I can be at your reception and drink at your open bar. I know friends'll forgive me if I miss a song during the party. My favorite worst memory was having a cd sound cue for comedian Pablo Francisco at an event years and years ago. Our cd player decided to skip 90sec into the cue and ruin his whole bit. I was devastated.
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Mar 28, 2023 08:32
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