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Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord
I remember reading that over the recent years a lot of researchers' opinions shifted to P = NP, but I think the majority of people still believe P != NP.

Also I vaguely remember some kind of dual version of the problem that happened to be ButtP = ButtNP, even if it sounded unintuitive in the same way.

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Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord
and you guys are being silly about crumbling down the industry. take testing for primality which was believed to not be in P for a long time. In 2003 they found a polynomial algorithm which was a neat theoretical result but that didn't mean poo poo in practice because the algorithm was still slow as poo poo.

what I mean is that even if P = NP, the problems that we currently know as NP-complete will probably still be intractable.

Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord

cool av posted:

sure I could google this but for the sake of discussion... if i'm given a solution to say the traveling salesman problem, how do I check that it's correct (optimal) in polynomial time? is it one of those things where you have some known NP problem that's easy to check and you translate your other NP problem into that one first in order to check it?

tsp is kind of an awkward example because we don't know if it's NP. it's shown to be NP-hard which means it's at least as hard as NP-complete

yes, I know, these definitions are convoluted

Symbolic Butt fucked around with this message at 06:52 on May 15, 2017

Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord
this is a good post about tsp:

https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/community/blogs/jfp/entry/no_the_tsp_isn_t_np_complete?lang=en

Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord

Berious posted:

thing is it's such a ridiculous idea. just because you can check an answer for a thing easily doesn't mean there must be some as yet undiscovered special trick to make working out the thing easy too

you're taking "easy" too literally

Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord
if you want to work through some math: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_sort#Number_of_comparisons_required_to_sort_a_list

Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord

SpaceClown posted:

If n is one or p is 0 p=np. Stupid comp sci idiots.

this joke was already done. mods ban this chucklefuck

Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord

OldAlias posted:

cs texts are lol and a racket. unless the material and tests closely follow it find a bunch of other resources as supplement. our course used sedgewick which is worthless for a good portion of the class. he invents his own notation which no one uses because he has problems with Big O - but his problems are addressed with theta and omega, which i guess he never heard of.

what was his notation like? I remember it was just kind of vague, less formal. "This algorithm is n log n", like that

Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord

spankmeister posted:

Did u know selection and insertion sort are actually the same? #wow #whoa


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcJHkWwjNl4

the scratching sounds always bother me in these videos, gently caress. and those animations are a little bit too much

but what matters: I guess that they're the "same" in the sense that insertion sort is just a better tweaked version of selection sort. maybe something to do with dynamic programming? I'm surprised that I never heard about this before but then again I didn't do a BS CS

Symbolic Butt fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jun 11, 2017

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Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord

Max Facetime posted:

one such number is nextup(0.0)

another one is nextup(nextup(0.0))

it should be obvious just by inspection that neither of those numbers can be expressed nor computed, in P or NP

1.401298464324817e-45
2.802596928649634e-45

:smug:

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