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So what's the spoiler policy gonna be for this thread? Black out all spoilers for the old seasons until the new premiere? Also am I the only one who always thought that there never really was a black lodge or white lodge, only the red room area that encompassed both? Hence the black and white interlocking zig-zags on the floor. This would fit a major theme in the show and all of Lynch's work, that the good and bad sides of life are inseparable and constantly intermingling.
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May 17, 2017 07:01
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Raxivace posted:I always figured the Red Room and the Black Lodge are one in the same, but I'm not entirely convinced the White Lodge was ever directly depicted in the show. Yeah, I'm not sure how to fit that scene with anything else either. Its a scene that is emotionally striking but defiant to interpretation. Also anyone know if Lynch or Frost are big fans of William Burroughs? Because a lot of the mythology of the show reminds me so much of Burroughs' work after Naked Lunch, and the recent book seemed to solidify that even more.
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May 17, 2017 07:11
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Since time-travel was introduced in FWWM who knows, but I'm guessing the new season isn't going to be an alternate timeline as much as its going to just be whatever Lynch and Frost want to do wtihout regard for previous canon or continuity. Without in-show explanations for the retcons, like the Star Trek reboot did or whatever.
Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 07:41 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 07:35
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But then you miss out on Josie's fate
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May 17, 2017 07:54
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Personally I think Windom Earle is a much more interesting character before he is actually shown on screen. Skip that part and you can just imagine something better. (Really though the whole show is worth watching at least once). Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 08:05 on May 17, 2017 |
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May 17, 2017 07:58
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Raxivace posted:TV Donna and Movie Donna are essentially different characters but I feel like they both fit in the kind of faux-50's postmodern genre blob that is this series. Isn't the idea that the death of Laura changes her forever, and she almost like incorporates bits and pieces of Laura into her personality after that point?
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May 20, 2017 05:53
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Monglo posted:But in the case I don't, is it okay to start watching the new season without much prior knowledge of the first seasons? Early reports say the new season, at least what was previewed so far for critics etc., mostly follows new characters and a new storyline but relies heavily on the audience remembering references to past seasons.
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May 21, 2017 02:50
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el oso posted:Among the many burning questions I have about the return, one of the most important ones is if they are going to keep the original opening or not. (I might cry once that first note of the theme hits.) Like you mean the exact same? Or basically the same but with the footage redone the way the locations look now?
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May 22, 2017 01:41
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100 degrees Calcium posted:Saw new Twin Peaks after re-watching FWWM. Love it Love it Love it. So far to me it feels a lot like Inland Empire, but you should watch that after Lost Highway and Mulholland Drive.
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May 23, 2017 04:21
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1000 umbrellas posted:Not hearing/reading anyone react to the deplorable CG and green screening except for some "that's so Lynch!" here and there. I disagree. Lynch's capacity for the surreal and even the exaggerated has always been upheld by strong, believable special effects, starting with the baby in Eraserhead and extending through some of the most violent scenes in his oeuvre. Throughout his work Lynch has often used effects that intentionally draw attention to their own artificial nature, in an anti-immersion fourth-wall breaking way. For example at the end of Mulholland Drive right when Diane kills herself a bunch of really obvious fog-machines start filling her otherwise normal bedroom with smoke. Inland Empire is full of that sort of moment. The only difference is now the obvious effects are digital, whereas before they were done practically or analog.
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May 23, 2017 17:40
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Clipperton posted:That said, four episodes in I would 100% take the new Twin Peaks we've got over no new Twin Peaks at all (or worse, new Twin Peaks without Lynch). When Lynch first quit the project weren't they going to keep using his scripts but hire others to direct? I can't imagine what that would have been like, it seems impossible. And More posted:Which effects have actually been CG? Was the tree CG? That was the most obvious example in the first two episdoes, but in episodes 3 and 4 there are entire sequences relying on green-screen and CG. The stitched together corpse in the bed looked pretty bad to me, and that one seemed actually bad and not intentionally artificial. Maybe I got too used to the really good effects for that sort of thing that Hannibal had.
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May 23, 2017 17:48
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MH hobo chat: That scene and character always reminded me of a story my parents told me about their honeymoon. They came from Canada to visit Los Angeles and Los Vegas, but always told me it was pretty disappointing to see that between the few landmarks you always see on TV etc. both cities, and especially the Hollywood area, were mostly depressingly empty and poverty stricken. Behind the glitz and glamour of Hollywood is the filthy hobo, which defines the area just as much. And this resonates especially with Diane's story, since she moves to Hollywood from Canada expecting to become a star and instead ends up a waitress at that same diner. If I remember correctly the original TV pilot cut of the movie ended on a close-up of that character. Basebf555 posted:Unfortunately I can't remember the argument point by point to explain what exactly suggests that the guy is having that realization. Well he is describing the dream to his friend (therapist?) as it happens.
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May 23, 2017 20:15
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1000 umbrellas posted:I promise I'm not just making GBS threads for the sake of making GBS threads, there were a lot of moments that I really enjoyed in those first four hours, but I am let down that nearly 25% into the new series there is no discernible narrative thrust other than the Log Lady's "something is missing and only you can find it." The most engaging part for me so far is Albert and Cole's investigation. I see where you're coming from; nothing in this new series compares to the original's "who killed Laura Palmer" hook. That was, as Lynch said, the goose that laid the golden eggs: it was something so simple and relatable but it opened up endless narrative possibilities as the impact and investigation probed into every dark corner of the town. The narrative thrust of this season is actually pretty simple too, being Cooper's struggle to take back his life after so long in dream-space, but that's narrower and seems like its intentionally being delivered in a way that keeps us at arm's length. After all, it would be supremely easy for anybody to write a traditional cat-and-mouse game between Good Cooper and Evil Impostor Cooper as a simple allegory for the duality of man. But Lynch is doing this story in a way we couldn't have expected and haven't seen a million times before, for better or worse.
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May 23, 2017 22:38
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Is The Arm's new form mean to be a tree? I assumed it was a disembodied nervous system, like in this one scene from Watchmen: 
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May 23, 2017 23:08
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Modrasone posted:I'd dispute that, the second bit. This new series seems pretty straight forward in how it's characters act, it's just the premise that's completely out there. But I don't think it's that out-there that it's inscrutable. Yes the places beyond time and space inhabited by unimaginable beings are a bit crazy, but that's the nature of the beast. Some of the scenes are slow and stilted but there's always a reason for the awkwardness, be it social inadequacy or just because it's a world of hosed up hitmen. The only thing that's been weird for the sake of it is the Michael Cera bit and maybe that was shoved in there for that reason, as a bit of contrast and self-parody. I didn't much like the other murder plot at first watch but on second it's really great. It's taking the reality of stuff that went on in the original series and putting it into a modern drama setting. There's nothing in the show that's weird for the sake of it, it's just a show about intelligent beings from another incomprehensible world interacting with our own and the consequences of that on people. I mostly agree with you but how the characters act around Dougie-Cooper, as if he's not acting completely brain-dead, is weird in a whole different way than the rest and its hard to understand the motivations of anyone in that plot-line. Its like something out of Beavis and Butthead, where most strangers who meet them tend to give them the benefit of the doubt no matter how stupid they are or how far they go.
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May 23, 2017 23:23
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No Mods No Masters posted:Dougie's wife and Jade act pretty weird, yes, but the way the casino people treat him is 100% true to life Well they notice he's acting like he had a stroke or accident. His wife seems to not really realize anything is wrong. Could be just a weird choice, or maybe she's part of the decoy plan set up by evil Cooper too.
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May 23, 2017 23:31
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Modrasone posted:I'm hoping that our expectations get dashed on the rocks again and it turns out that the good Cooper we so wanted to see isn't the original at all, he's just as hosed up as his mirror image. A pure, stupid force for good that overcomes the odds every time via divine intervention. What are the consequences of that? What if there were two guys out there that were literally able to harness the power of good and evil? Who would want to control them? What could they do with them? Maybe the White Lodge and Black Lodge aren't what it's about, it's just that the Red Room and the other places connected to it are means by which this can happen, that they could produce a God of Dark and a God of Light and have them loose on the world. Maybe the Lodges never existed and all of the folklore and conspiracy theories going back to the year dot were just a theory that this is possible. Tremendous forces that we can't understand exist and maybe that means that pure good and pure evil aren't just concepts, they're things that could literally exist. Maybe that's what is happening. To me the interlocking dark and light zig-zags on the floor of the red room have always been a clue that there are no black or white lodges, just this dream-space which encompasses both. Which would go along with one of Lynch's main themes, which is that the good and bad in life are really inseparable. Perhaps Dale, and to a lesser extent his evil counterpart, are having so much trouble functioning because they're both two halves of a whole person. To really defeat the doppleganger Dale will have to reabsorb that side, rather than defeating it.
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May 24, 2017 00:08
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Clouseau posted:The FBI is having a pretty big problem with blue rose agents completely losing their minds: Windom Earle, Philip Jeffries, and now Cooper. I kept waiting for one of them to acknowledge that they've spent their whole careers with these Blue Rose cases coming up and they have nothing to show for it.
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May 24, 2017 03:44
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Cephas posted:One of the questions I can't help but ask myself is why he was "defeated" in the finale in the first place. What prevented him from passing through the black lodge unharmed? One thing is that he seemed too willing to trade his soul for Annie's safety. Another was the fascination he had with her that Lynch seemed to find utterly banal ("How's Annie?"). But the thing that sticks out to me is that when he meets his doppelganger in the lodge, he runs away from it. Using dream logic--in a nightmare, you don't run away from the monster chasing you, you confront it. It seems strangely un-Cooperish, un-heroic and un-agentlike and un-mindful for him to flee instead of face it. It's like a rejection of his Shadow. Especially when you consider Leland's words in the lodge, where he says something like "I didn't do anything wrong, I didn't do anything." It makes me wonder if Coop wouldn't have found himself in this situation if he had acknowledged his Shadow Coop and embraced it or something, instead of running from it. I think that's it, and so instead of killing evil Cooper he will have to reabsorb him to become whole again. Maybe Laura would still be alive if she had confronted what was being done to her, in a literal way like going to the police and reporting her father, instead of using drugs for escapism. Although I guess she did embrace her dark side, in a different way. Do you guys think the Cooper doppelganger in this season is meant to be BOB? So far it doesn't seem like it. Only the "How's Annie?" scene in the previous finale seems to suggest that (because of the mirror image), but everything else makes it seem like the doppelganger, not BOB, replaced Coop. The only other explanation I can think of is that BOB is simply sick of his endless hedonistic quest for garmanbozia, and its worn down his maniacal personality.
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May 24, 2017 06:42
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The Unlife Aquatic posted:I think this is also part of it. I always took BOB as being like the spiritual parasite equivalent of a hermit crab. He doesn't jut wear people's faces - he wears their personalities. There's so little of him that's human that he has to use parts of his host to pass as one of us. I always assumed he was a manifestation of Leland's memories of the neighbor Robert who, it was implied, abused him as a child. Like the cycle of abuse given form in the real world. Heavy Metal posted:With Leland and Bob, it felt like Bob literally possessed Leland, and was another personality. Granted also being a metaphor or whathaveyou. This feels different. In the show, yeah, but in the film it seemed more like he was in control and knew exactly what he was doing. He just gave into temptation.
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May 24, 2017 07:02
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Heavy Metal posted:I look at it sort of with the behind-the-scenes info in mind, of how Dave did it. We know he just saw the guy in the crew, that thing with him being in the mirror etc, and put him into the story, and rolled with that. So I don't know that there'd be such a normal logical answer to Bob and his appearance. I don't really see how that changes anything. Heavy Metal posted:Do we think of Mike as having stolen somebody's body/appearance? Been a bit, I forget if that was spelled out. Well when the shoe salesman stops taking drugs a whole different personality seems to emerge. So yeah, I guess so.
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May 24, 2017 07:07
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Cephas posted:I could've sworn that this was the case too, but for the life of me I can't remember where that information is revealed. In a conversation at one point between Leland and Ben? It's never directly said, but if I remember correctly they theorize that the clues BOB is leaving under his victims' fingernails spell out ROBERT. At one point Leland mentions that he had a creepy neighbor by that name who taunted him as a child, saying "do you wanna play with fire, little boy?". James mentions that Laura's "mystery man", the one molesting her, said the same to her. Then before Leland dies he again brings up Robert, describing his possession in an implicitly sexual way. Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 07:30 on May 24, 2017 |
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May 24, 2017 07:21
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I don't get the criticism of this as just weird for the sake of being weird, because "weird" is such a broad term. I mean Twin Peaks is weird, The Leftovers is weird, Xavier Renegade Angel is weird, the Transformers movies are weird, that criticism is weird. But they're all very different, under the same general adjective. Lynch creates a certain mood, tone, and symbolic vocabulary that is unique to him. The pacing is a big part of that.Barreft posted:I can't even parse half this post. What does "box-watching enthusiasts" and "serial experiments lain" mean? Serial Experiments Lain is another tv series, and I guess they mean people who liked the sub-plot of the guy hired to watch the box would like that show too.
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May 29, 2017 03:29
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Its a pretty common idea in fiction that when humans come up against forces completely outside of our understanding of the universe we experience them as familiar things skewed by dream logic. For example, the Q in Star Trek.
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May 29, 2017 06:19
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Lanz posted:I'm reminded of that whole "Flatland" concept, where a two-dimensional being would perceive a three-dimensional being as essentially a chaotic mutation of shapes as it passed through its plane. If I remember correctly the Secret History of Twin Peaks book says something very similar to that, near the end.
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May 29, 2017 06:24
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I would like to think the coffee snapped him back into lucidity, but it didn't really seem like it. Maybe now he's on his way there, though.
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May 30, 2017 19:00
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The Unlife Aquatic posted:I think the Red Room may well be both. In Lynch's worldview you can't take the good without the bad, they're married to one another. There's also the matter of the floor - white and black zigzags. Yeah exactly. This theme also comes up early on when Donna tells her mom that of course she's sad Laura is dead, but she's also happy because it made her realize she was in love. Went Cooper went into the red room he failed to realize this, and that's why he was lost. He focused on the horror of that world and ran from it, rather than confronting it.
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May 30, 2017 23:25
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Shibawanko posted:I'm a little confused by this though, when bad Cooper gets pulled into the black lodge, you see the red drapes, and the red drapes room is often talked about as if it's the black lodge. Is it ever made clear that it's not the black lodge, or that the "waiting room" is really different from the black lodge? I don't remember that it's ever explicitly said on the show. Windom Earle seems to talk about the lodges differently than how the red room is depicted, but then again what does he know.
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May 31, 2017 07:55
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JazzFlight posted:This whole "3rd Cooper named Dougie" while there was already a character named Dougie Milford who was highly connected to Maj. Briggs and takes up almost half of the Secret History of Twin Peaks book makes me wonder if we'll get some explanation about the reason behind the name. Combine that with the fact that he died on his wedding night while wearing a gold ring with a green gem on it... Maybe because there was a BOB and Bobby, MIKE and Mike.
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Jun 5, 2017 23:11
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basic hitler posted:or if it's some sort of "nobody pays attention to anyone else's poo poo" notions of modern society taken to the extreme. They treat Dougie like how side characters tended to treat Beavis and Butthead.
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Jun 6, 2017 09:12
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Mraagvpeine posted:I wasn't paying too much attention, but is the new season doing that "each episode is a day" thing the previous seasons did? Seems like it, since every episode ends with a performance at the bar. Not sure though.
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Jun 7, 2017 02:06
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Did anybody point out that the name on the toilet stall (Nez Perce) was a fairly major element in Frost's recent book?GobiasIndustries posted:hurf durf, original response! Dougie just isn't doing it for me. I loved original Twin Peaks, FWWM, Mulholland Dr. is one of my favorite movies, and it's been a while but I remember enjoying Eraserhead and Blue Velvet, not so much Dune. I'm relatively familiar with Lynch. I loved the first two episodes of this season, thought episode 3 was really good, episode 4 was enjoyable, but the Dougie scenes from 5 and 6 have been more miss than hit for me. Everything else I'm really enjoying. I don't think it's an unfair criticism It's ok not to like those parts, but I just think some self-indulgence is the inevitable trade-off for letting a creative genius have near-total freedom.
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Jun 12, 2017 07:19
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moist turtleneck posted:That was the giant's dopple The dopplegangers and the possessed people are not the same. The waiter was possessed/influenced by the Giant like Leland was possessed/influenced by BOB.
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Jun 12, 2017 18:50
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Basticle posted:So I guess this means that Carl just had loving enough of Deer Meadow and coincidently bought a trailer park outside of Twin Peaks? Or his trailer park is right between the two towns.
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Jun 12, 2017 19:07
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The Secret History of Twin Peaks book retconned a lot, including the location of Deer Meadow.
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Jun 12, 2017 19:13
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Mover posted:Mike's weird hand gestures in the fireplace (v similar to the lady in the radiator from Eraserhead) were the same as the dancers with the casino guys I think One of the dancers' hands seemed to be doing the same motion as that weird shadow on the wall in the original red room scene.
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Jun 13, 2017 04:28
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eSporks posted:Mullholland drive has many characters that exist in the dream world but outside the perspective of the Watts. That is kinda how dreams work. True, but they were still all (or mostly) people she knew in her waking life. I always interpreted those scenes as her fantasies of what would happen to those people, if she got her way. And in her fantasy the hit man was ridiculously incompetent, because she didn't really want Camilla dead. regulargonzalez posted:So, is there any concrete connection between Dougie's plot and any real world storyline? Whatever Carl saw rising out of the dead kid resembled the apparitions Dougie-Coop saw above the slot machines.
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Jun 13, 2017 05:13
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HorseRenoir posted:The problem with this is that Cooper was acting fine all the way up to being transferred through the electrical socket. You think so? As far as I remember the only scene where he seemed lucid was the black and white scene with the giant, when he said "I understand". regulargonzalez posted:That shuts down my theory pretty definitively. The waking world of Twin Peaks also operates by dream logic. Remember the Phillip Jeffries scene in FWWM? "We live... inside a dream." Lord Krangdar fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Jun 13, 2017 |
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Jun 13, 2017 08:06
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HorseRenoir posted:At the very least, he seemed able to function independently instead of having to waddle around mimicking other people. You're right that he wasn't doing any mimicking, but he still seemed to have difficulty doing much besides sitting in that chair. Especially when he tried to talk (except, again, in that black and white scene) he seemed hesitant, like he couldn't quite get the words out.
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Jun 13, 2017 08:21
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kaworu posted:Hey, random casting question for anyone who knows, which I will spoilertag because it does involve casting and hence possible future episodes: Is Chris Isaak confirmed on the cast list? With the reappearance of the Fat Trout Trailer Park and Carl Rodd, I am very curious if there's any chance we see Chet Desmond again. I always liked Agent Desmond - he had his own M.O. I really really hope so.
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Jun 15, 2017 03:28
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