Aviation Megathread 10: I'm dumb as shit

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Aviation Megathread 10: I'm dumb as shit

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

EvilJoven posted:

It was legal. I wouldn't call that safe.

The part about a 1900 being hard to fly is BS. I've performed landings via overhead break in one Flying the notoriously unrealistic Carenado model in FSX.

EDIT: also if there's a published approach procedure IFR guys can be arriving on a straight in or circling approach.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/publications/en/tp11541/pdf/hr/tp11541e.pdf

They probably were on an IFR flight plan, and it was safe in this specific case regardless. It was after midnight and we were the only two aircraft in the area at an MF airport with an automated weather station. I wonder if their company SOPs have anything to say about it.

# ? Jun 20, 2017 17:31

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 04:50

Rolo: Nov 16, 2005; Hmm, what have we here?

Got my CE525 PIC type rating last night. My first full type. I knocked that sucker out of the park and the examiner told me I'm a good pilot.

:cheers:

# ? Jun 21, 2017 14:05

Riatsala: Nov 20, 2013; All Princesses are Tyrants

Pardon me if this isn't the correct thread to ask, but can anyone weigh in on hot air balloons? I'm not interested in being a pilot, but I recently went to a festival that was ostensibly a ballooning meet, and the balloons were grounded the entire time. Weather conditions were clear and sunny, high humidity, gusts of 7-10 miles per hour, with a wet field. Not a single balloon launched.

I only ask because I used to fly with my dad in his tiny 2-seater single-prop back in the day, and while that especially diminutive plane was susceptible to being grounded in less than torrential weather, the conditions that were grounding these balloons would have been glorious flying weather for the Varga. Are balloons really just that fragile? I admit I only have the vaguest idea of how a hot air balloon even operates, or how much control the pilot has over it. Seems like a rather unrewarding hobby.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 02:39

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Riatsala posted:

Pardon me if this isn't the correct thread to ask, but can anyone weigh in on hot air balloons? I'm not interested in being a pilot, but I recently went to a festival that was ostensibly a ballooning meet, and the balloons were grounded the entire time. Weather conditions were clear and sunny, high humidity, gusts of 7-10 miles per hour, with a wet field. Not a single balloon launched.

I only ask because I used to fly with my dad in his tiny 2-seater single-prop back in the day, and while that especially diminutive plane was susceptible to being grounded in less than torrential weather, the conditions that were grounding these balloons would have been glorious flying weather for the Varga. Are balloons really just that fragile? I admit I only have the vaguest idea of how a hot air balloon even operates, or how much control the pilot has over it. Seems like a rather unrewarding hobby.

I'm guessing the wind wasn't blowing the right direction. Or maybe it was too fast. Or the upper winds were forecast to be much stronger than they were on the ground. Balloons suck, IMO. If you really want to be at the relative mercy of the elements, take up gliding -- at least you have actual control, and you don't need to burn fuel.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 03:27

St_Ides: May 19, 2008

I think I'm one of the more experienced (or only?) balloon pilots here (If someone wants to amend my op from "Canada - PP, glider, hot-air" to "Canada/USA/Kenya - PP, glider, hot-air CPL" that would update the last 7ish years) So I can definitely give some answers.

Riatsala posted:

gusts of 7-10 miles per hour, with a wet field.

There's your answer.

Balloons really hate strong winds. In North America. maximum speed balloons will launch at is 8-10kt of a constant wind. Less if it's gusty.

Maximum takeoff wind also really depends on the launch site and landing areas. If it's windy and you have a tight launch site, the balloon is going to be swinging around, potentially hitting other balloons/objects. Obviously, that's not ideal. When you have a wide open launch site, you can get away with a bit stronger winds. There's also other factors in the launch site, like if it's in a hollow between a bunch of trees, so the winds swirl and don't give a consistent direction. During inflation, strong winds will push on the balloon, and force air out. If you don't have strong enough inflation fans, or if there's gusts or direction changes, it's possible that you can't even get the balloon inflated. And it'll still be difficult to get it to stand up.

With an ideal launch site, you can get away with taking off in very strong winds (Here in Kenya, I've taken off in 25kt of wind. This wouldn't be possible -or advised- to do anywhere else) but that's also using a big balloon (400,000+ cu ft) of a design without in-flight vents (which makes it easier to stand up, but only suitable in areas where aggressive maneuvering isn't required)

Landing is the other issue. If you're flying in an urban area, you really don't want to be landing in more than 3-5mph of wind. That'll let you get in to tight spots (In Vegas, landing in a cul-de-sac wasn't uncommon.) With wide open landing areas, landing speed shouldn't be an issue. I've landed at 25+ knots, you just need the room to drag out. If you were there in the morning, the general rule of thumb is that the winds will increase, so you'll be landing faster than you took off.

The wet field is also an issue. Balloons don't necessarily know where they're going, so they need to be chased by a vehicle. If the landing areas are wet, you can't drive in to them, which means carrying out the balloon by hand.

Being a festival is probably a big factor too. Festivals will include many pilots of varying skill and experience. A festival usually puts all control in to one (experienced, usually local) organizer, called a balloonmeister. They make the call whether there will be a flight or not. A good balloonmeister knows that calling a flight on in iffy conditions is going to put some people in danger.

Riatsala posted:

Are balloons really just that fragile? I admit I only have the vaguest idea of how a hot air balloon even operates, or how much control the pilot has over it. Seems like a rather unrewarding hobby.

Fragile isn't the right word for balloons. I've landed harder, and hit things that would completely destroy any other aircraft. I intentionally hit trees daily (Brush through them with the basket).

Sensitive might be a better word? We're a lot more effected by any change in conditions, compared to other aircraft. For example, I was flying in Orlando not too long ago, and if the wind changed 5 degrees and/or 3kt, I was in major trouble. SW Orlando has very, very few places to land, and the rest is either Disney (which has a TFR over it and an army of lawyers) or swamp (gator-infested, huge, balloon destroying trees). So if my direction and/or speed changes, I might miss my only landing site because of it.

A balloon pilot's only control is vertically. We have no way of turning left or right, unless the wind at a different altitude is going that way. Some mornings I can go in any direction, even landing back at my launch site. Some evenings there is absolutely no change in wind direction for thousands of feet of altitude, so I'm just going straight ahead and trying to find somewhere safe. Navigating a balloon is very much an art, and while you can get a balloon licence in a short time, it takes years and a whole lot of experience to be able to get where you want to go.

Unrewarding isn't true at all. Imagine the feeling of taking off, flying 20 miles, and landing within 5 yards of where you wanted to be an hour ago, using only the feel of the wind to get you there. No steering wheel, no directional control, just the seat of your pants. You really feel in tune with the world (Or that you've bent nature to your will). I've flown everything except a blimp, and there's nothing else like a good balloon flight.

For a lot of balloon pilots, it's no hobby. I'm a professional, commercial balloon pilot. I've been offered and taken jobs on almost every continent. I'm well compensated for it too. I've never flown for just fun.

I highly recommend going for a balloon flight when you get a chance. If anyone has any questions about balloons, I can answer them.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 09:44

Animal: Apr 8, 2003

I just wanna know how much you make so I can tell my regional pilot friends to become balloon pilots

# ? Jun 22, 2017 12:31

St_Ides: May 19, 2008

Animal posted:

I just wanna know how much you make so I can tell my regional pilot friends to become balloon pilots

Starting salary where I am is usually around $60k, with accommodations and food all paid. Usually adds a stipend of local cash to pay for other things. The only thing I spend money on is booze, internet (only available as 3g cell connection or satellite) and transportation (though I still don't own a car here). And the occasional food luxury, like flying pizza in from Nairobi, or anything that the lodge can't provide (I live at a 4 star resort, so food is decent, but repetitive.)

# ? Jun 22, 2017 12:49

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

Practice day today :ohdear:

I think I might actually spend some of that time just sight seeing and chill.

At least I have the V speeds memorized that I need to be able to rhyme off without glancing at the POH or it's an automatic fail before we even enter the cockpit.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 13:19

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

St_Ides posted:

I think I'm one of the more experienced (or only?) balloon pilots here (If someone wants to amend my op from "Canada - PP, glider, hot-air" to "Canada/USA/Kenya - PP, glider, hot-air CPL" that would update the last 7ish years) So I can definitely give some answers.

There's your answer.

Balloons really hate strong winds. In North America. maximum speed balloons will launch at is 8-10kt of a constant wind. Less if it's gusty.

Maximum takeoff wind also really depends on the launch site and landing areas. If it's windy and you have a tight launch site, the balloon is going to be swinging around, potentially hitting other balloons/objects. Obviously, that's not ideal. When you have a wide open launch site, you can get away with a bit stronger winds. There's also other factors in the launch site, like if it's in a hollow between a bunch of trees, so the winds swirl and don't give a consistent direction. During inflation, strong winds will push on the balloon, and force air out. If you don't have strong enough inflation fans, or if there's gusts or direction changes, it's possible that you can't even get the balloon inflated. And it'll still be difficult to get it to stand up.

With an ideal launch site, you can get away with taking off in very strong winds (Here in Kenya, I've taken off in 25kt of wind. This wouldn't be possible -or advised- to do anywhere else) but that's also using a big balloon (400,000+ cu ft) of a design without in-flight vents (which makes it easier to stand up, but only suitable in areas where aggressive maneuvering isn't required)

Landing is the other issue. If you're flying in an urban area, you really don't want to be landing in more than 3-5mph of wind. That'll let you get in to tight spots (In Vegas, landing in a cul-de-sac wasn't uncommon.) With wide open landing areas, landing speed shouldn't be an issue. I've landed at 25+ knots, you just need the room to drag out. If you were there in the morning, the general rule of thumb is that the winds will increase, so you'll be landing faster than you took off.

The wet field is also an issue. Balloons don't necessarily know where they're going, so they need to be chased by a vehicle. If the landing areas are wet, you can't drive in to them, which means carrying out the balloon by hand.

Being a festival is probably a big factor too. Festivals will include many pilots of varying skill and experience. A festival usually puts all control in to one (experienced, usually local) organizer, called a balloonmeister. They make the call whether there will be a flight or not. A good balloonmeister knows that calling a flight on in iffy conditions is going to put some people in danger.

Fragile isn't the right word for balloons. I've landed harder, and hit things that would completely destroy any other aircraft. I intentionally hit trees daily (Brush through them with the basket).

Sensitive might be a better word? We're a lot more effected by any change in conditions, compared to other aircraft. For example, I was flying in Orlando not too long ago, and if the wind changed 5 degrees and/or 3kt, I was in major trouble. SW Orlando has very, very few places to land, and the rest is either Disney (which has a TFR over it and an army of lawyers) or swamp (gator-infested, huge, balloon destroying trees). So if my direction and/or speed changes, I might miss my only landing site because of it.

A balloon pilot's only control is vertically. We have no way of turning left or right, unless the wind at a different altitude is going that way. Some mornings I can go in any direction, even landing back at my launch site. Some evenings there is absolutely no change in wind direction for thousands of feet of altitude, so I'm just going straight ahead and trying to find somewhere safe. Navigating a balloon is very much an art, and while you can get a balloon licence in a short time, it takes years and a whole lot of experience to be able to get where you want to go.

Unrewarding isn't true at all. Imagine the feeling of taking off, flying 20 miles, and landing within 5 yards of where you wanted to be an hour ago, using only the feel of the wind to get you there. No steering wheel, no directional control, just the seat of your pants. You really feel in tune with the world (Or that you've bent nature to your will). I've flown everything except a blimp, and there's nothing else like a good balloon flight.

For a lot of balloon pilots, it's no hobby. I'm a professional, commercial balloon pilot. I've been offered and taken jobs on almost every continent. I'm well compensated for it too. I've never flown for just fun.

I highly recommend going for a balloon flight when you get a chance. If anyone has any questions about balloons, I can answer them.

Epic-level unexpected content posting.

I figure there are probably more professional (US/Canada) football players than there are commercial balloon pilots.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 13:49

St_Ides: May 19, 2008

MrYenko posted:

Epic-level unexpected content posting.

I figure there are probably more professional (US/Canada) football players than there are commercial balloon pilots.

I don't know the US numbers, but there's only about 200 balloon licenses in Canada. And maybe 1/4 of those licenses are used more than 4 times a year. I'd estimate that there's maybe 30 people who fly professionally.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 16:23

The Ferret King: Nov 23, 2003; cluck cluck

Welp... That fella sure knows a lot about balloons.

# ? Jun 22, 2017 16:25

vessbot: Jun 17, 2005; I don't like you because you're dangerous

"Aggressive maneuvering"

# ? Jun 22, 2017 18:02

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Mods, can I get namechanged to "Aggressive Balloon Maneuver?"

# ? Jun 22, 2017 21:22

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

MrYenko posted:

Mods, can I get namechanged to "Aggressive Balloon Maneuver?"

Aviation Megathread v10 | aggressive balloon maneuvers

# ? Jun 22, 2017 21:39

simble: May 11, 2004

MrYenko posted:

Mods, can I get namechanged to "Aggressive Balloon Maneuver?"

Obviously the only name change here is to "Balloonmeister"

# ? Jun 22, 2017 22:05

vessbot: Jun 17, 2005; I don't like you because you're dangerous

Blimpin ain't easy

# ? Jun 23, 2017 01:43

i am kiss u now: Dec 26, 2005; College Slice

vessbot posted:

Blimpin ain't easy

V 11Thread title. Done. :colbert:

# ? Jun 23, 2017 01:46

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

Check ride cancelled due to WX. Jesus loving christ I just want to get this poo poo finished.

# ? Jun 23, 2017 05:23

helno: Jun 19, 2003; hmm now were did I leave that plane

St_Ides posted:

Canada

Hey I was going through my ultralight thread a while back and noticed a comment you had made that went right over my head at the time you made it.

It was about me possibly flying with people you know.

Send me an email helno at rocketmail.com

# ? Jun 23, 2017 23:10

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Winds 6G21 at 350 when I was originally cleared to the circuit for 35. 070 at 10 when I touched down (perfectly straight and on the centreline, I might add). Nailing a crosswind landing is probably my favorite thing, maybe because I struggled with them for so long, and I don't often get good practice flying out of an airport with two perpendicular runways.

# ? Jun 25, 2017 02:40

St_Ides: May 19, 2008

helno posted:

Hey I was going through my ultralight thread a while back and noticed a comment you had made that went right over my head at the time you made it.

It was about me possibly flying with people you know.

Send me an email helno at rocketmail.com

Awkward email sent.

Also, Desi, I'm pretty sure I know your chief pilot, if you're flying MU-2s out of YQT. Tall guy? Looks like Inspector Gadget?

# ? Jun 25, 2017 15:26

i am kiss u now: Dec 26, 2005; College Slice

Looking for some clarification on alternate airports. Say I file an IFR flight plan and weather conditions at the destination are such that it doesn't meet the "1-2-3" rule. Now, I must list an alternate airport. I look around and find a small, suitable airport nearby with 2 GPS approaches (the aircraft is IFR /G and WAAS capable). However, next to both of the approaches, there's the infamous "/A\ NA," meaning that these approaches cannot be used for alternate filing consideration. (I don't plan on doing this but the airport under consideration is 0G7). Although this airport does not have any WX reporting capabilities, let's say nearby airports and area forecasts for this particular destination indicate that weather will be VFR at the time of alternate arrival. Now, the way that I interpret the regs, is that I COULD still file this guy as a "legal" alternate based on 91.169:

"(c) ...no person may include an alternate airport in an IFR flight plan unless appropriate weather reports or weather forecasts, or a combination of them, indicate that, at the estimated time of arrival at the alternate airport, the ceiling and visibility at that airport will be at or above the following weather minima:"

(since we have to assume that is has "no approaches" since they've been NA'd)

"(2) If no instrument approach procedure has been published in part 97 of this chapter and no special instrument approach procedure has been issued by the Administrator to the operator, for the alternate airport, the ceiling and visibility minima are those allowing descent from the MEA, approach, and landing under basic VFR."

Does this make sense? I know it's stupid given the availability of other suitable airports close by but is it legal to file as an alternate given the conditions?

edit: quick addendum, unlike an airport like KAPC (Napa, CA which says "NA when local WX not available"), 0G7 doesn't have it's own section in the "Alternate Minimums."

i am kiss u now fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Jun 25, 2017

# ? Jun 25, 2017 17:43

azflyboy: Nov 9, 2005

That interpretation sounds correct to me, since the FAR's never specify that the alternate airport needs to have it's own dedicated weather reports or forecasts.

# ? Jun 25, 2017 20:07

Slamburger: Jun 27, 2008

St_Ides posted:

I highly recommend going for a balloon flight when you get a chance.

Seconding this. I went for a balloon ride when I was vacationing in Napa valley. I initially chose it as "seems like it will be kind of interesting thing to do on vacation, why not" kind of thing, and it ended up being one of my favorite things on that trip. The balloon pilot was super knowledgable (he was a balloon racer, I didn't even know that existed), and the ride itself was awesome. Its obvious in retrospect, but since the balloon moves with the wind, there is no relative wind when you are in the basket so its very peaceful and serene (the views in wine country are amazing of course). The pilot landed in the same spot as we took off, which he said was a pretty rare "hole-in-one" landing, but nonetheless spoke to his experience navigating the various wind changes at different altitudes. I would highly recommend a balloon ride to anyone, especially pilots.

# ? Jun 27, 2017 19:01

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

Oh my loving god what the gently caress is wrong with these people?

"South China Morning Post posted:

A flight from Shanghai to Guangzhou was delayed after an elderly woman passenger was suspected of throwing coins into the plane�s engine to ensure �good luck�, mainland media reported.

Passengers boarding the flight reportedly saw an elderly woman throwing coins at the engine for �blessings� from the middle of the boarding staircase and alerted the crew.

Ground staff said the woman, who appeared to be about 80 and had limited mobility, was accompanied by her husband, daughter and son-in-law.
After maintenance crew inspected the aircraft, they found nine coins in one engine.

# ? Jun 27, 2017 20:15

greasyhands: Oct 28, 2006; Best quality posts,
freshly delivered

EvilJoven posted:

Oh my loving god what the gently caress is wrong with these people?

It was like an 80 year old superstitious chinese peasant, kind of hilarious actually.

# ? Jun 27, 2017 20:23

sleepy gary: Jan 11, 2006

I'm impressed an 80 year old with limited mobility got 9 coins into the engine from the stairs.

# ? Jun 27, 2017 20:28

i am kiss u now: Dec 26, 2005; College Slice

Could you imagine if you did that in the US? You'd probably be put on some sort of terror watchlist and have to pay for the engine overhaul out of your own pocket.

# ? Jun 27, 2017 20:33

sleepy gary: Jan 11, 2006

I'm going to start glider training soon I think. Is there any reason to think it'll screw with my powered flying skills?

# ? Jun 27, 2017 21:26

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

If anything you'll just get really really really good at forced approaches.

# ? Jun 27, 2017 21:33

vessbot: Jun 17, 2005; I don't like you because you're dangerous

sleepy gary posted:

I'm going to start glider training soon I think. Is there any reason to think it'll screw with my powered flying skills?

No! The opposite is true. The most important thing that will happen is that you will be inculcated with the correct response with the elevator to a low-speed situation. The right thing to do will now become instinctual (or at least closer to it) and you will become less likely to be the next Air France 447, or Pinnacle 3701, or Asiana 214.

If I was king of the world, everyone would start on gliders, then the first powered transition would be into a taildragger. And all airspeed tapes would be with the high speed at the bottom and low speed on top.

vessbot fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jun 27, 2017

# ? Jun 27, 2017 22:41

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

EvilJoven posted:

Oh my loving god what the gently caress is wrong with these people?

Hey at least it was an old woman who probably literally didn't know any better. I'm more concerned about the Air AsiaX pilot who actually made an announcement and asked the passengers to pray. Do what you gotta do in the cockpit, but that is unprofessional as gently caress.

Now this is how you do an announcement in an emergency:

Speedbird 9 posted:

Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them going again. I trust you are not in too much distress.

# ? Jun 27, 2017 23:10

babyeatingpsychopath: Oct 28, 2000; Forum Veteran

vessbot posted:

If I was king of the world... all airspeed tapes would be with the high speed at the bottom and low speed on top.

Why's that? I agree with everything you've said, but the reasoning here is opaque to me.

# ? Jun 27, 2017 23:11

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

Why's that? I agree with everything you've said, but the reasoning here is opaque to me.

Just a guess, but I'd say so you push/pull the nose toward the speed you want instinctively.

# ? Jun 27, 2017 23:50

Animal: Apr 8, 2003

EvilJoven posted:

Oh my loving god what the gently caress is wrong with these people?

That's actually part of my walk-around inspection ritual. I haven't had an engine failure yet so it works

# ? Jun 28, 2017 02:48

vessbot: Jun 17, 2005; I don't like you because you're dangerous

babyeatingpsychopath posted:

Why's that? I agree with everything you've said, but the reasoning here is opaque to me.

What PT6A said. To expand on that, everything else shown on a tape or scale on a typical PFD is set up on the design/usage premise that you move the nose toward the value you want to achieve. For headings, if you want to achieve a heading that is displayed to your right, you turn to the right. (Simple enough, right? But before glass cockpits or the top-down-view DG's that their heading component is modeled after, there were "barrel gyro" DG's, where you had to turn away from the heading you want, or "drag the heading." I've got time on such an airplane, had to actually navigate it cross-country, and it sucks!). For altitude, to achieve an altitude that is displayed above you, you move the nose up. Same for vertical speed.

But for airspeed, to achieve an airspeed that is displayed above you (i.e., faster) you have to move the nose down! Or "drag the airspeed," just like those antique DG's. What gives!? Obviously, the airspeed tape is not put there with any thought to the above-mentioned design principle. It's based on throttle control, ("higher"= faster) which is the opposite, so they can only satisfy one or the other requirement.

So which to choose? Well clearly there are phases of flight where the pilot uses elevator control vs. throttle control, but no matter how the pilot intends to control airspeed, the elevator/nose will always control the airspeed in accordance with the high-speed-down tape principle. Furthermore, every pilot, to one level or another, has the (wrong) instinctual response to control the vertical flight path by pointing the nose up and down. That works, at least initially, during most phases of flight, but fails during the most safety-critical of them, such as the 3 recent accidents I referenced. What's more, it's exactly when things are going the wrongest, that pilots will turn their brain off and go with instinct, instead of doing the counter-intuitive but right action, namely lowering the nose to build speed for Air France and Pinnacle, and adding power (instead of pulling up) to go up for Asiana. So there should be an ever-present reminder on the screen of what the elevator is gonna do to you.

The upside down airspeed tape is not a new concept, just not a widespread one. The space shuttle had it, but obviously it could only use pitch for speed. The U-2 (later updates with glass cockpits) did too, as at high altitudes the engine only ran at one setting (full) so it too could only pitch for speed. But some high thrust to weight maneuverable planes did too, like the F-15 in the HUD.

And before glass cockpits/PFD's got popular there was a generation of instrument panels with mechanical tapes for instruments, instead of round dials. And every one of those I've seen had the upside down airspeed tape.

# ? Jun 28, 2017 02:53

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Out of curiosity, how often do commuter/transport pilots get tested on CPL-flight-test-level basic airmanship? I imagine basic skills like stall recovery could be allowed to atrophy to a certain point because recurrent training focuses on other, more advanced emergency scenarios.

On the same subject, how often should I be working on flight test items like steep turns, slow flight, stalls, forced/precautionary approaches now that I'm done with my CPL flight test and just need to build time? It's been over a month since I did anything beyond basic cross-country flight and circuits, and I feel like I should maybe be keeping my skills sharp even though it's a long while before I'm legally required to do anything.

# ? Jun 28, 2017 04:31

The Slaughter: Jan 28, 2002; cat scratch fever

We still do stalls in 6 month and 12 month recurrent. There are a lot of other maneuvers to go through, though, I can't say it's a huge focus but it's definitely some checkboxes that we check. That said, I haven't seen anybody do anything stupid to react to the stall, and it's not really a surprising thing in the sim... green PLI, yellow PLI, shaker... if someone encountered one unexpectedly, I could see a wrong reaction.

The Slaughter fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Jun 28, 2017

# ? Jun 28, 2017 08:43