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Covok posted:What's the best omnibus of Conan works? Realized I gave my old collection away to one of my nieces. I was under the impression Conan was like a lot of Lovecraft's stuff? That the original stories are public domain, but the additional stuff by other authors is not.
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May 31, 2017 16:40
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I think the original form of the stories as written by Howard weren't actually released until the Del Rey editions like 15 years ago so it might be that only the altered editions are public domain. I don't know if Howard has an equivalent to Donovan K. Loucks for H.P. Lovecraft in having an online resource that has basically the most accurate versions of the stories all in one place.
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May 31, 2017 17:38
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I googled who controls REH's literary estate, and it's... Swedish video game publishers/developers, Paradox Interactive? But no, turns out it's some random company, Paradox Entertainment.
BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 20:09 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 20:05
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Dog_Meat posted:I could never put my finger on what the vibe of the 82 film was, then someone on the forums nailed it. 1982 Conan is a Spaghetti Western in a fantasy setting. Complete with overdubbing actors entire performances like Spaghetti Westerns. Here are some of those sweet sweet Earl Norem Conan illustrations       
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May 31, 2017 20:35
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Considering Conan is from 1920, you probably can make a story about Conan, but someone may try to sue you because copyright trolls are scum suckers.bloom posted:This one has all the original REH stories(including unfinished ones) with no additions from other authors. Comes with a few illustrations, though nothing at the level of Frazetta. Thanks!
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May 31, 2017 22:05
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While nothing tops the Frazetta artwork, I also really like Becky Cloonan's art from the Conan comics.
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May 31, 2017 22:31
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The illustrations in the centenary edition are by Les Edwards. Not a big fan of them in general, but the one used for Tower of the Elephant is great.
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Jun 1, 2017 10:21
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MeatwadIsGod posted:While nothing tops the Frazetta artwork, I also really like Becky Cloonan's art from the Conan comics. Becky Cloonan is great.
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Jun 1, 2017 15:44
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If I wanted to read some non-Howard Conan stories, where should I start? Are any of them any good at all? I understand L. S. DeCamp is thought of as a hack, and he mainly just edited/added to unfinished Howard stories. I think the Wheel of Time author wrote some original short stories or novels, has anyone read those?
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Jun 1, 2017 17:28
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MrMojok posted:If I wanted to read some non-Howard Conan stories, where should I start? Are any of them any good at all? Read the Kane novels/short stories by Karl Edward Wagner.
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Jun 1, 2017 17:45
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I believe this list comes from a Conan RPG, so grain of salt and all that. But it has helped me to picture some of these places as I have been reading through all the REH stuff (next up is a Karl Edward Wagner book) AQUILONIA: Medieval France ARGOS: Merchant-ruled Italy ASGARD AND VANAHEIM (NORDHEIM): Viking-age Denmark or Norway BARACHAN ISLES: The Caribbean Islands, particularly Tortuga BORDER KINGDOM: Baltic countries such as Estonia or Latvia BOSSONIAN MARCHES: Medieval Wales and/or Scotland BRYTHUNIA: Medieval Germany, Poland, or Lithuania CIMMERIA: Gaelic Ireland and Scotland CORINTHIA: Medieval Greece DARFAR, KESHAN, KUSH, PUNT, ZEMBABWEI, AND THE BLACK KINGDOMS: Ancient African kingdoms such as Darfur, Nubia, Kush, Somaliland, Zimbabwe, and others HYPERBOREA: Medieval Russia, particularly Novgorod HYRKANIA: A cross between Mongolia and Scythia IRANISTAN: Caliphate Iran KHAURAN: Medieval Syria KHITAI: Feudal-era China KHORAJA: Constantinople or the land known as Outremer KOTH: The Byzantine Empire NEMEDIA: The Germanic Holy Roman Empire OPHIR: Medieval Sicily or Malta PICTISH WILDERNESS: A combination of Scotland and Native American North America SHEM: The west is the Iron Age Levant (Canaan) and Assyria, and the east is Arabian STYGIA: Ancient Egypt TURAN: Seljuk Turkey VENDHYA: Mughal India ZAMORA: Persia, especially Baghdad ZINGARA: Reconquista-era Spain
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Jun 27, 2017 19:53
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Sorry to double post but I just had to share something. I'm watching the 1982 Conan with the commentary track, and totally out of the blue, Milius says: quote:I was really in need of a mission, when Conan came down the pike. Because I had just made Big Wednesday (surf movie), which was a very personal movie to me personally. And Big Wednesday was a total financial failure. And I felt that the only possible, honorable thing I could do was to join the French Foreign Legion. That last bit just came so out of nowhere, I just could not stop laughing. Still can't.
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Jul 1, 2017 06:33
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MrMojok posted:Sorry to double post but I just had to share something. The bits about how the sex scenes with Conan were originally far more X-rated are pretty funny, too. The witch in the cave was making some very not-sexy faces in the bits of that scene that ended up in the film. Also, the timing about the commentary was right when Conan tossed the witch into the fire and she exploded.
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Jul 3, 2017 13:50
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I remember reading somewhere a few years back about Lovecraft and Howard being friends. Now I know that Lovecraft was a paranoid racist even by the time's standards, but what about Howard? There are elements of the stories which as the OP says are problematic by today's standards, but is that true of Howards personal views as well?
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Jul 17, 2017 01:08
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Read stuff like "Children of the Night" or "Pigeons from Hell" and you'll get a sense of it. He was definitely racist. I don't remember it coming up in his Conan stories but it definitely comes up in others.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:47
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Pretty much all of the black/dark-skinned people were villains, as well.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:48
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Someone did an effort post in the thread that this one budded off - basically, yes but not nearly as venomously as Lovecraft. Howard probably had more contact due to his interest in boxing.
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Jul 17, 2017 13:57
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Arcsquad12 posted:I remember reading somewhere a few years back about Lovecraft and Howard being friends. Now I know that Lovecraft was a paranoid racist even by the time's standards, but what about Howard? There are elements of the stories which as the OP says are problematic by today's standards, but is that true of Howards personal views as well? Howard was definitely racist, but in a much different manner than Lovecraft. His stories and writings don't really portray any fear or hatred of other races, he actually seemed to hold other cultures (as he understood them) in high regard, but everything is filtered through a flat assumption of white supremacy. Swarthy Mediterranean shipmen and Mongol steppe people may be presented positively (if unrealistically), but the greatest of both just happens to be the ethnically white Conan. The traditions of African tribes may be shown to be of equal worth to western Christianity, but the greatest African spiritualist will just happen to be English puritan Solomon Kane. Howard was a fantasist. He believed (or wanted to believe) in a mightier, freer, and a more morally wholesome measure of (white) person. So while his views and stories are unquestionably racist, they also express a disappointment, or maybe a resentment, that white people fail to live up to his ideal.
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Jul 17, 2017 16:03
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How far off were his beliefs from the norm at the time?
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Jul 17, 2017 18:15
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david_a posted:How far off were his beliefs from the norm at the time? I can't emphasize enough that racism was pretty much the norm in the 1920s and 30s, an attitude viewed as wholesome and healthy and pretty much universal. So the increasingly common "these guys were crazy even for the times" displays a remarkable ignorance of racial attitudes of the period. Where writers like Howard and Lovecraft differ is in their expressions of these ideas, not the ideas themselves: that is, as exceptionally literate, intelligent and imaginative people, they dressed up typical attitudes in atypical ways; they could express them with a clarity and imagery not available to the typical Joe that just plain hated darkies and wasn't going to write fifty-page letters with poetic interludes telling you why. I would strongly recommend getting a hold of a bunch of pulps from the period if you want a genuine idea as to how your average writer of that time and type saw the world. That having been said, I'd say Howard was more moderate than Lovecraft. Howard felt civilization was an enfeebling force, which gave him more sympathy for more "primitive" peoples. But he felt them to be primitive all the same, and in some cases wasn't shy about stating it.
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Jul 17, 2017 19:40
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Howard was undoubtedly a racist, but I think he was fairly progressive for the time. Schwarzwald put it pretty well, and yeah, you can see in the Conan stories a lot of racism, but it does seem of a different sort of racism to what was prominent then - and now. I have no doubt that Howard believed in the innate superiority of the white man, but I also don't think he held non-whites in contempt or even necessarily in pity/disdain. His views are more complex and interesting to discuss than Lovecraft's, who was - as noted - a virulent piece of poo poo even by the standards of the time. Lovecraft absolutely hated blacks and found them repugnant savages, while I'm not entirely sure what to say Howard felt of them. I've never really read any of the non-Howard Conan stuff; how do they handle some of the racialist/racist themes of the setting? I always found Stygia one of the more egregious offenders since not only is it an Egypt of white people - something not that uncommon even today for Hollywood and pop culture - but an Egypt ruled by white people with an explicit underclass of black and brown peasants.
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Jul 18, 2017 02:05
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:And my personal favorite is The Man-Eaters of Zamboula, just for what happens to Baal-Pteor (it's the single most badass thing Conan ever does, IMO) I finally just got to this story, reading near the end of my collection of R.E. originals. I had been dying to know what you were talking about, and it did not disappoint.
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Jul 18, 2017 02:41
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:I've never really read any of the non-Howard Conan stuff; how do they handle some of the racialist/racist themes of the setting? I always found Stygia one of the more egregious offenders since not only is it an Egypt of white people - something not that uncommon even today for Hollywood and pop culture - but an Egypt ruled by white people with an explicit underclass of black and brown peasants. there's one about a dude in like 1880s southern africa with a scheming witch doctor who can turn into a hyaena as the villain and it's about what you'd expect, the witch doctor is clearly reacting against encroachment by white settlers but is portrayed as a purely bad guy menacing the white woman in the story.
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Jul 19, 2017 02:54
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Howard's work definitely veers deep into orientalism and is full of noble savage stuff. Although that one story with the man-eaters is fairly explicitly racist. Conan at one point gets attacked in the dark by a huge hideous monster and when he puts the light on it turns out its just a black guy. It is interesting how pop-fiction ages. I loved Clive Cussler as a kid but rereading some of those books can be super awkward now.
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Jul 19, 2017 09:08
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UNTRUSTWORTHY HOOK NOSED SHEMITES WITH BLUE BEARDS. I recently went through all of Howard's Conan stories and I love it when all these arrogant wizards get Conan'ed. So satisfying.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:58
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I've finished all the Howard stories, and it was time well spent. I know they vary wildly in quality and there is a lot of repetition, and I know Conan isn't a real great character in story terms, because he really has no flaws, but man, I loved it. I guess my favorite was "Beyond the Black River". I also really liked "The God in the Bowl" and "The Black Stranger" Next up, Karl Edward Wagner Conan stories!
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Jul 21, 2017 19:00
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MrMojok posted:Next up, Karl Edward Wagner Conan stories! Make sure to move on to his Kane stories.
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Jul 21, 2017 19:33
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:UNTRUSTWORTHY HOOK NOSED SHEMITES WITH BLUE BEARDS. And yet, like Lovecraft, Conan ends up getting with a Jewish girl. And, like Lovecraft, it doesn't last terribly long, despite both having been apparently happy in the relationship.
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Jul 22, 2017 03:17
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Arcsquad12 posted:I remember reading somewhere a few years back about Lovecraft and Howard being friends. Now I know that Lovecraft was a paranoid racist even by the time's standards, but what about Howard? There are elements of the stories which as the OP says are problematic by today's standards, but is that true of Howards personal views as well? he had racist beliefs of 1930s texas and was racist in general. but he was never as bad as say lovecraft. howard was more into orientalist and primitivism which influenced his book. Paragon8 posted:Howard's work definitely veers deep into orientalism and is full of noble savage stuff. Although that one story with the man-eaters is fairly explicitly racist. Conan at one point gets attacked in the dark by a huge hideous monster and when he puts the light on it turns out its just a black guy. pretty much. most of the conan stuff outside that one are fine if very puply. i have never read cussler, is it post 9/11 clancy bad? or worse.
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Jul 23, 2017 18:46
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Dapper_Swindler posted:he had racist beliefs of 1930s texas and was racist in general. but he was never as bad as say lovecraft. howard was more into orientalist and primitivism which influenced his book. Cussler fortunately never goes that far and reads more ignorant than malicious. A lot of poo poo like calling far east asians "orientals" and such. His protagonist is very much "despite all these feminisms I'll still open doors for women and rescue them."
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Jul 23, 2017 21:39
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I just read "The Scarlet Citadel" from the Del Rey collection, and it owns. Fantasy usually doesn't appeal to me at all, but Howard's writing is usually so damned good even if his prejudices break through the writing occasionally. I've been reading the stories in order from the Del Rey collection and have enjoyed them all so far. I read "The Tower of the Elephant" a few years ago, and that's still probably my favorite. But I love how Howard used Conan as an excuse to do quasi-historical fiction by changing Conan's environment from one story to the next, but having it all work in a coherent and consistent world. You can really see how stuff like Game of Thrones or Samurai Jack just took that concept wholesale from Howard.
MeatwadIsGod fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 21:58
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Black Canaan was a pretty racist story. Brief summary....our hero hears about trouble in the Louisiana swamps. He goes there to the little town of Grimesville. There, he finds out that, in the swamp, this conjureman named Saul Stark is using his voodoo powers to incite the blacks to kill all the whites and make Stark the emperor of an all black America, and our hero has to stop them.
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Sep 20, 2017 01:15
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:Howard was undoubtedly a racist, but I think he was fairly progressive for the time. Schwarzwald put it pretty well, and yeah, you can see in the Conan stories a lot of racism, but it does seem of a different sort of racism to what was prominent then - and now. I have no doubt that Howard believed in the innate superiority of the white man, but I also don't think he held non-whites in contempt or even necessarily in pity/disdain. So it would resemble the Ptolemaic Egypt. Their Kings even had a Greekish name 'Ctesphon'. And I don't remember the Stygian ruling class being white. Where is it stated so?
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Sep 20, 2017 14:04
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I remember someone mentioning that Howard was kind of shocked about Lovecraft's level of racism. Lovecraft grew up in mostly-white New England while Howard grew up surrounded by minorities on account of living in Texas.
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Sep 20, 2017 15:48
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Hogge Wild posted:So it would resemble the Ptolemaic Egypt. Their Kings even had a Greekish name 'Ctesphon'. And I don't remember the Stygian ruling class being white. Where is it stated so? Off hand, I know for a fact it's mentioned in Hour of the Dragon. When Akivasha shows up he immediately pegs her for a Stygian noble 'cause she's white. And eh, I imagine he was just more racist than actively going for Ptolemaic Egypt. Other than that, there's no real Hellenistic vibes to Stygia. Most of the names we associate with Ancient Egypt are, in fact, Greek approximations/versions of the actual Egyptian names and words. Like 'Anubis' is Greek; the Egyptian would have been something closer to Anapa. Ausar/Asaru/Ausir for Osiris, and the list goes on.
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Sep 20, 2017 20:08
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I think these books are dope Secondly I think it's hypocritical for Conan to have a sex palace complete w/ harem but it's ok because he doesn't treat his sex slaves bad
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Sep 25, 2017 22:04
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Kinda off topic, but Howard's fight-king sailor & the hillbilly mountain man stories drag you in by the sheer absurdity of the action & never break character tone. The fight-king sailor just fights and fights and watches out for his pet dog. The hillbilly mountain man stories, welp, think redneck conan wrecking people who done him/his family wrong.
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Sep 26, 2017 01:47
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I just finished the Del Rey editions and man all but one or two of the stories were great. I think my favorites are "The Phoenix on the Sword," "The Tower of the Elephant," "The Scarlet Citadel," "The Hour of the Dragon," and "Beyond the Black River." Generally stories that have little to no "love interest" as far as that term applies to Conan's world and some degree of Conan wrecking a sorcerer's poo poo.
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Sep 26, 2017 02:37
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Kemper Boyd posted:I remember someone mentioning that Howard was kind of shocked about Lovecraft's level of racism. Lovecraft grew up in mostly-white New England while Howard grew up surrounded by minorities on account of living in Texas. Yes, in a documentary about Howard, it was stated the horror stories that scared him the most when he was a child were African folk tales told to him by an elderly ex-slave woman.
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Oct 7, 2017 02:48
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Gimmedaroot posted:Yes, in a documentary about Howard, it was stated the horror stories that scared him the most when he was a child were African folk tales told to him by an elderly ex-slave woman. I really hope some ethnographer managed to record versions of those stories.
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Oct 7, 2017 04:13
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