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Erpy
Jan 30, 2015
(insert title here)

Omobono posted:

I agree that it's probably that they don't know enough to make a proper deal out of it, and the only one that could possibly understand never shares information as a rule (:argh:).
Falcom loves to put in little details that the PCs have no context to properly understand, but can make a faithful player go "oh loving crap this isn't good".

However, in the name of the Goddes, what is happening in Erebonia during Cold Steel that there are multiple areas with the high elements active?
(Rethoric and spoilery question, noone actually answer please)

Cold Steel 1 and 2 spoilers:

Potentially the most intriguing is Lunaria Nature Park in Cold Steel II. I'm kinda willing to give the Old Schoolhouse a partial pass, since we know it served as a test to obtain a fragment of a Sept-Terrion and sending visitors to another plane as part of a trial at least makes some sense, even if it's still freaky and even if at the end of Cold Steel II it sends you to a hidden dummy trial dimension that looks SUSPICIOUSLY like the Jade Corridor area we just traversed. Lunaria Park, on the other hand, isn't even indoors and is normal the first time you visit it and the second time you visit it, suddenly...another plane of existence starts bleeding into it or something? :stonklol:

Erpy fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Jun 3, 2017

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Polsy
Mar 23, 2007


Hey, if you're going to do that would you mind highlighting the update posts in some way so I don't skip over them assuming they're discussion?

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

How about if I used a screenshot instead of plain text for the links?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Polsy posted:

Hey, if you're going to do that would you mind highlighting the update posts in some way so I don't skip over them assuming they're discussion?

Go to User Control Panel > Edit Options and turn on "Highlight the username of the "original poster" in thread posts". That makes LP threads a lot easier to read.

Polsy
Mar 23, 2007

Really Pants posted:

How about if I used a screenshot instead of plain text for the links?

Sure, sounds good to me

ultrafilter posted:

Go to User Control Panel > Edit Options and turn on "Highlight the username of the "original poster" in thread posts". That makes LP threads a lot easier to read.

I might give this a shot too, though

Epsilon Moonshade
Nov 22, 2016

Not an excellent host.

Polsy posted:

Hey, if you're going to do that would you mind highlighting the update posts in some way so I don't skip over them assuming they're discussion?

I don't mind it since I tend to read all the posts anyway, but the link thing does make it kind of hard to quote bits and pieces to comment on them. :v:

Also, is this going to screw up whatever tool the archive uses to pull LP posts in?


With that said:

Really Pants posted:

Zane is Zin now, by the way. Or he was Zin, and then he was Zane, and now he's Zin again.

I dislike this change for some reason I can't put my finger on - it just doesn't feel right. On top of that, they actually patched FC and SC to make this change.

They also made a second change - the "hmm hmm" chuckle got changed to "hee hee" or "hehehe" or something like that. Another change I don't like. Why couldn't they put that time into fixing the NG+ quartz bug or making my character status boxes show up properly? :argh:

And Tita is the best little murderer. She pretty much always had a spot on my team when I didn't need to bring others for Plot ReasonsTM.

Junpei
Oct 4, 2015

Although next time, you would be wise to heed the ancient Japanese proverb... phone first!

Epsilon Moonshade posted:

I dislike this change for some reason I can't put my finger on - it just doesn't feel right. On top of that, they actually patched FC and SC to make this change.

He's a character from the East, which is like a smoothie of China, Japan, and other Asian countires, so it would make sense for him to have that name. Doesn't explain Walter having his name, but c'est la vie.

Erpy
Jan 30, 2015
(insert title here)

Junpei posted:

He's a character from the East, which is like a smoothie of China, Japan, and other Asian countires, so it would make sense for him to have that name. Doesn't explain Walter having his name, but c'est la vie.

Calvard's population partially consists of people whose ancestors are originally from that area and partially of immigrants who came from farther east of the Republic. It's possible Zin and Kilika have immigrant origins while Walter doesn't. (heck, there's two folks named Walter in SC, Enforcer VIII and a newly minted senator staying in Grancel and both are from Calvard, so it might be a common Calvardian name)

Junpei
Oct 4, 2015

Although next time, you would be wise to heed the ancient Japanese proverb... phone first!

Erpy posted:

Calvard's population partially consists of people whose ancestors are originally from that area and partially of immigrants who came from farther east of the Republic. It's possible Zin and Kilika have immigrant origins while Walter doesn't. (heck, there's two folks named Walter in SC, Enforcer VIII and a newly minted senator staying in Grancel and both are from Calvard, so it might be a common Calvardian name)

That's a good point, and one that I didn't think of.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Tita was not who I was expecting to be our first returning party member. Admittedly, she always has a spot in my heart due to being able to successfully wield a gatling gun/orbal cannon combination weapon while weighing about 10 pounds soaking wet. That said, I fully predict Agate's arrival in about...two or three updates accompanied by his usual loud incoherent yelling.

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!

AradoBalanga posted:

Tita was not who I was expecting to be our first returning party member. Admittedly, she always has a spot in my heart due to being able to successfully wield a gatling gun/orbal cannon combination weapon while weighing about 10 pounds soaking wet. That said, I fully predict Agate's arrival in about...two or three updates accompanied by his usual loud incoherent yelling.

Yeah, the order in which people join is fairly random, although there are a few points where it's pretty obvious whose gonna come out to play. Tita coming out first was something I liked, though. All her development thus far in the series has been in relation to Estelle, Agate, or her grandpa. It's cool to see her standing on her own two feet and seeing who she is on her own.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

Rabbi Raccoon posted:

Yeah, the order in which people join is fairly random, although there are a few points where it's pretty obvious whose gonna come out to play. Tita coming out first was something I liked, though. All her development thus far in the series has been in relation to Estelle, Agate, or her grandpa. It's cool to see her standing on her own two feet and seeing who she is on her own.
Yeah, I figured with the game talking about Zane/Zin/Butch Deadlift, he'd be the first to show up.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

most modern translators agree that 'Zin' is most accurately translated as 'Punch Rockgroin'

Erpy
Jan 30, 2015
(insert title here)

Rabbi Raccoon posted:

Yeah, the order in which people join is fairly random, although there are a few points where it's pretty obvious whose gonna come out to play. Tita coming out first was something I liked, though. All her development thus far in the series has been in relation to Estelle, Agate, or her grandpa. It's cool to see her standing on her own two feet and seeing who she is on her own.

I'm not sure if I'd immediately call it random. Based on SC, I do see some logic in it. Slight 3rd spoilers based on joining order:

After Tita, the first people to join your party are Julia, Mueller and Josette. In the original PC version of SC, Julia wasn't even a proper character, just a dummy character used in two battles without a stat sheet or battle orbment, her list of spells was hardcoded. In XSeed's versions, she was playable in the Liber Ark chapter, but only when the very final dungeon part became available. Same with Mueller minus the cameo battles. Josette was only playable during a part of the final chapter too. Given their lack of screentime in SC, it makes sense that 3rd would make them join near the start so the player is forced to use them.

Joshua was the next one to join, which also makes some sense since he was absent from the party for a large part of SC.

On the other hand, depending on who you picked as a partner, both Agate and Schera had the potential to be in the party from the start of Chapter 1 to the end of the final Chapter, so they both join fairly late. This is even more true for Estelle who was only out of the party during two short segments in SC, so she was the last of the SC cast to join.

Kloe, Olivier and Zin fall somewhat in the middle. (Kloe and Olivier join up early in SC, but are absent during one or two later chapters, Zin joins up later than most, but never becomes unavailable afterwards)

Anelace is a bit of an exception to the rule, though maybe the fact that she joins after a lot of others in 3rd is because while she was only available briefly in SC, whenever she was available, the game forced you to use her and she couldn't be benched so the player was definitely familiar with her skillset and playing style even if Petal Dance was useless because buffs didn't last very long at the start of the game.

That leaves Tita. I believe she joined first in 3rd because many people considered her a low-tier character in SC and several people mentioned they never used her except when she was plot-mandated in Chapter 2 and 5. Personally, I thought she was alright though her role gradually shifted from crowd debuffer to support unit as enemies became immune to the blind status and she gained her ailment and debuff-curing Vital Cannon 2 craft, but she certainly wasn't top-tier. I think 3rd wanted to "redeem" her in a way, so they made her join the party at a time when your options were still very limited and both of her crafts had plenty of use. (Smoke Cannon because most stuff hadn't started resisting blind yet and its AOE got upgraded from Medium to Large, Vital Cannon 2 because it was always a solid healing/support craft and at the start your party healing options were limited so you were forced to use it) And this time, by the time she's threatened to go back to benchwarmer status, she gets her own proto-spirit unification to manhandle stuff with.

I'm not so sure why the developers went through hoops to "redeem" Tita and not Josette who was lower tier than her in SC. Maybe Falcom considers Tita a "serious heroine", as supported by her return to the stage in Cold Steel III, while Josette remains a joke character who's fairly good at most stuff (remote support, cooking, looking after people, running the finances for a delivery service) except combat.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

Dude.

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"
"Slight" spoilers.

XainZero
Feb 16, 2011

Winning 300 battles without running is pretty easy except for 1 specific part that I felt was designed specifically to ruin your chances of getting that item.

The doors are the closest thing to sidequests this game has and I like 'em quite a bit,

Erpy
Jan 30, 2015
(insert title here)

Some Numbers posted:

"Slight" spoilers.

Well, anybody who looked at the game's site should probably know who the cast consists of.

RegalStar
Jul 17, 2016

XainZero posted:

Winning 300 battles without running is pretty easy except for 1 specific part that I felt was designed specifically to ruin your chances of getting that item.

Considering that most of the game precedes the "win 300 battles" quartzs, I think that's just more of "let's put this thing in without actually considering how it will work out" syndrome that originally-added-by-PSP-version features have.

Epsilon Moonshade
Nov 22, 2016

Not an excellent host.


I like the riddles for these doors. They're simple enough that a bit of character knowledge should be enough to get you through them, but they're also clever.

I think it's pretty obvious which second character this door is asking for, but I'll let people who haven't played the game speculate.

Erpy
Jan 30, 2015
(insert title here)
Even if the player has somehow forgotten the entire plot of SC, the actual contents of the first sequence inside the door make the answer to the second riddle death glaringly obvious.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

Erpy posted:

Even if the player has somehow forgotten the entire plot of SC, the actual contents of the first sequence inside the door make the answer to the second riddle death glaringly obvious.

What was not obvious to me was that there even was a second riddle...

Epsilon Moonshade
Nov 22, 2016

Not an excellent host.

Erpy posted:

Even if the player has somehow forgotten the entire plot of SC, the actual contents of the first sequence inside the door make the answer to the second riddle death glaringly obvious.

Well, yes. This one is even less complicated than most of them. I still think it's neater than just coming out and saying "HEY BRING TITA THROUGH THIS DOOR"

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

MOOOOOON DOOOOOOOR *aaaaaaaa* *noodly synth*

The Doomhammer
Feb 14, 2010

I feel It might have been a better idea for them to have used one of the more interactive doors as the introduction to this particular system.

Plus, the intro + this door means you maybe get a bit too much concentrated Erika right at the start of the game.

Erpy
Jan 30, 2015
(insert title here)
In addition to the guardian creatures having a counter that heals you until about halfway through the fight, they're also vulnerable to the blind ailment, so Smoke Cannon shuts them down and never allows them to recover.

Erika's and Albert's relationship is already hinted at in SC when Tita says with a completely straight face that in her dream where her parents came home, her mom and granddad got into a "loving fistfight" for the first time in a long while. Even so, Tita's surprisingly normal given the family she grew up in if you discount the extreme geekiness she's prone to around technology.

Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

if you feel you have taken an unsafe amount of Erika, do not attempt to operate heavy machinery or torture your child's friends

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!
The problem I have with a lot of those doors is that they show recent events. Like, since the Liberl Ark incident. Why would they show recent memories to the characters?

I might be reading too much into this, but for a series that's good at storytelling, it feels sloppy

Erpy
Jan 30, 2015
(insert title here)
I kinda wonder if the characters (rather than the player) actually end up seeing that stuff at all. Exhibit A: Star Door 14 (the final one you open). There's no way the characters wouldn't comment on that if they had actually seen that scene. Kevin later makes a remark deducing what that Star Door blatantly showed, which he wouldn't have needed to if he had seen it.

Erpy fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Jun 5, 2017

Tamba
Apr 5, 2010

Erpy posted:

Exhibit A: Star Door 14 (the final one you open). There's no way the characters wouldn't comment on that if they had actually seen that scene.

Speaking of that door... did they use the original PC version of that door, or the one from the console releases?
:smithicide:

Erpy
Jan 30, 2015
(insert title here)
That's Star Door 15 you're talking about (Star Door 14 is the one that requires all the other doors to be opened) and they used the original one, not the shortened console version.

Tamba
Apr 5, 2010

Oops, yeah I meant that one. No idea why they numbered the doors like that.

e: Actually, it's probably just because of where the doors are located, and they didn't want players going crazy looking for the one door they think they missed.

Tamba fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Jun 5, 2017

Edvarius
Aug 23, 2013
The Doors really feel like the weakest part of this game. I mean, some of these scenes have nice character bits that I can appreciate having, but at the same time the way they're presenting everything is just so random and disjointed. There's no coherent narrative to it at all, and that drags my enjoyment of the game down.

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"
Interesting, I feel the opposite. I didn't find the dungeon levels very engrossing and the doors felt like a nice change of pace.

Tamba
Apr 5, 2010

I agree with Some Numbers. I didn't care all that much about the main story. Learning about the character's pasts and/or what they did after SC from the doors was the main draw for me.

Epsilon Moonshade
Nov 22, 2016

Not an excellent host.

Rabbi Raccoon posted:

The problem I have with a lot of those doors is that they show recent events. Like, since the Liberl Ark incident. Why would they show recent memories to the characters?

I might be reading too much into this, but for a series that's good at storytelling, it feels sloppy

In my opinion, this is answered later in the game. Not explicitly, but in a "pretty easy to connect these dots" sense. I won't spoiler it here, but you can drop me a PM if you've played the game and you're curious about my thought on it.
And then there are the minigames, which are blatant padding. FISHING :argh:

Edvarius posted:

The Doors really feel like the weakest part of this game. I mean, some of these scenes have nice character bits that I can appreciate having, but at the same time the way they're presenting everything is just so random and disjointed. There's no coherent narrative to it at all, and that drags my enjoyment of the game down.

I agree that it seems disjointed, but I disagree that it's the weakest (or even a weak) part of the game.

We know that wherever we are, it isn't playing by any "rules" that make sense in the first place. The doors just add to the confusion of "where the hell are we?" and feeling that we're somewhere ~magical~. Why are we getting "memory fragments?" HOW are we getting "memory fragments?" And of course, what the hell ARE "memory fragments?" :v:

Some Numbers posted:

Interesting, I feel the opposite. I didn't find the dungeon levels very engrossing and the doors felt like a nice change of pace.

And then there's this. I was looking forward to finding doors, because they gave cool backstory to the characters or world. The dungeon had some neat bits in its story as well, but the doors (especially the actual door 14, the one with :downswords:, not the one with :gonk:) had awesome speculation bait.

Mzbundifund
Nov 5, 2011

I'm afraid so.
Do all these dungeon features like the ingredients tree, the shattering of your initial quartz, the shopping zone, etc. have any actual explanation? I understand if you can't answer this question without spoilers yet, but so far it feels like this place is 90% cheap gameplay contrivance and I can understand why I see so much criticism of the shift in game structure between this and earlier entries in the series.

Epsilon Moonshade
Nov 22, 2016

Not an excellent host.

Mzbundifund posted:

Do all these dungeon features like the ingredients tree, the shattering of your initial quartz, the shopping zone, etc. have any actual explanation? I understand if you can't answer this question without spoilers yet, but so far it feels like this place is 90% cheap gameplay contrivance and I can understand why I see so much criticism of the shift in game structure between this and earlier entries in the series.

In short, yes, it's all explained in a way.

Epsilon Moonshade fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Jun 5, 2017

Erpy
Jan 30, 2015
(insert title here)
Yeah, it's kinda related to the exact nature of the place you're in and how it came to be.

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Hwurmp
May 20, 2005

All except for the shattering quartz. That's just a dick move.

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