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Serperoth posted:Did that happen? I thought that Pokemon only disobeyed you if the OT wasn't the same as you
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May 31, 2017 15:09
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... Yeah, if the pokemon was traded. Pokemon are always obedient regardless of level if you personally caught them in every official game in the series. People who's 'starters' disobeyed them at Misty probably got one traded over, or they're misremembering. For proof take a look at any glitched speedrun of R/B where they use a level 100 Mew they catch with 0 badges and have no issues.
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May 31, 2017 15:19
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Zore posted:People who's 'starters' disobeyed them at Misty probably got one traded over, or they're misremembering. No. This happened to me on two occasions in Red, both definitely without trading. I Levelled my Charizard to 50 before taking on Lt. Surge via sequence break and it stopped obeying me mid battle. Years later I emulated the game and cheated in rare candies to get a lvl 50 Nidoking from the start, and the same thing started happening.
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May 31, 2017 16:36
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RyuHimora posted:No. This happened to me on two occasions in Red, both definitely without trading. I Levelled my Charizard to 50 before taking on Lt. Surge via sequence break and it stopped obeying me mid battle. Years later I emulated the game and cheated in rare candies to get a lvl 50 Nidoking from the start, and the same thing started happening. Sounds like a glitch, then. Probably generated the Charmander with a different trainer ID than yours because RGB is held together with prayers and kludges.
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May 31, 2017 16:54
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RyuHimora posted:No. This happened to me on two occasions in Red, both definitely without trading. I Levelled my Charizard to 50 before taking on Lt. Surge via sequence break and it stopped obeying me mid battle. Years later I emulated the game and cheated in rare candies to get a lvl 50 Nidoking from the start, and the same thing started happening. Yeah same here, I cheated in rare candies during a playthrough and my Blastoise stopped obeying me not long after the second gym to the point where eventually I had to restart the whole game. I'm guessing this is a glitch though as I've done the same thing in other gens and never had a problem.
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May 31, 2017 17:19
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It's possible that the cheating method used to get the candies in also altered either the pokemon's OT or your ID Number somehow.
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May 31, 2017 18:18
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RyuHimora posted:No. This happened to me on two occasions in Red, both definitely without trading. I Levelled my Charizard to 50 before taking on Lt. Surge via sequence break and it stopped obeying me mid battle. Years later I emulated the game and cheated in rare candies to get a lvl 50 Nidoking from the start, and the same thing started happening. I just now started up a game of Blue, got a level 11 Butterfree, then started up a game of Red, traded the Butterfree over, then cheat coded in 99 rare candies and fed 94 of them to my starter Charmander. The Butterfree's first act in Red was to disobey me and use Tackle instead of String Shot on a random encounter, and then it used String Shot like I wanted it to next turn. I then proceeded to beat my Rival, all the trainers and random encounters in Viridian Forrest, and Brock with my level 100 Charizard, with no disobedience. Then I told my level 11 Butterfree to use String Shot on a random encounter again, it disobeyed and did nothing (yes, in gen 1 level 11 and higher pokemon gained in trades will disobey you until you beat Misty's level 18 Staryu and level 21 Starmie. Not very well thought out here).
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May 31, 2017 18:23
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The Golux posted:It's possible that the cheating method used to get the candies in also altered either the pokemon's OT or your ID Number somehow. True, but I did this early on and had no problems until after I beat Misty. As I said, Gen 2 onwards doesn't seem to have this problem at all so I'm guessing it was probably a combination of the cheat I used and some kind of glitch in the game's code (or an issue with the rom I was using as I remember using the MissingNo glitch to rare candy my team up to 100 in my copy of Pokemon Red and never ran into this problem there). So yeah, not sure of the cause but non-traded Pokemon disobeying you does happen (but only in Gen 1 it seems).
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May 31, 2017 18:46
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Gen 1 is held together with silly string and paper clips, so obedience issues would just be another for the list of bugs and weird poo poo plaguing it.
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May 31, 2017 21:32
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Haifisch posted:Gen 1 is held together with silly string and paper clips, so obedience issues would just be another for the list of bugs and weird poo poo plaguing it. That's mostly why I asked, I'm well aware of Gen I's issues, but it'd definitely seem more like a bug than intentional. But then again, in Gen II, there's a mismatch with numbers that makes a ball more effective against Pokemon that evolve using Burn Heal, so who even knows
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May 31, 2017 21:39
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Serperoth posted:But then again, in Gen II, there's a mismatch with numbers that makes a ball more effective against Pokemon that evolve using Burn Heal, so who even knows Just to clarify this for those who don't know already, there are no Gen II pokemon that evolve via burn heal. However, the Moon Ball is supposed to see if the target pokemon can evolve via moon stone... but due to a programmer error, it checks for burn heal instead. So the Moon Ball always acts like a normal pokeball and never has any additional effect.
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May 31, 2017 21:50
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Haifisch posted:Gen 1 is held together with silly string and paper clips, so obedience issues would just be another for the list of bugs and weird poo poo plaguing it. What's the thing with the special stat that image mentions at the end? It's been a very, very long time since I touched Gen 1.
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May 31, 2017 21:56
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Rainuwastaken posted:What's the thing with the special stat that image mentions at the end? It's been a very, very long time since I touched Gen 1. Presumably it's about how Special was both for Special Attack and Special Defense so something with a high Special Stat would be both powerful offensively and defensively against certain types of attacks.
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May 31, 2017 22:03
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Xelkelvos posted:Presumably it's about how Special was both for Special Attack and Special Defense so something with a high Special Stat would be both powerful offensively and defensively against certain types of attacks. Isn't this the main reason why Psychic-types are considered overpowered in Gen 1? What with them only being weak to Ghost, a Special typing, and Ghost only having two attacks, one having fixed damage.
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May 31, 2017 22:09
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Also anything that had access to Amnesia could quickly become a killing machine(since it boosted Special by two stages).
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May 31, 2017 22:16
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Carlioo posted:Isn't this the main reason why Psychic-types are considered overpowered in Gen 1? What with them only being weak to Ghost, a Special typing, and Ghost only having two attacks, one having fixed damage. Well there's the uni-Special thing, but the bigger one is that they were inexplicably immune to the non-fixed Ghost move, and the only Ghost types had secondary Poison so all Psychic moves were super effective. (I think they were weak to Bug too but all the Bug-types had awful stats and most of them were part poison too) e: There was also a lot of perception because the strongest critter in Gen 1 (more or less objectively) was mono-Psychic but you tear that away and mechanically it's still stupid overpowered. Even Dragon was actually weak to Ice (even if its other weakness, Dragon, had all of one move that was fixed damage) e2: Yeah Mewtwo was an effective 744 stat total by the modern totaling system 
Shugojin fucked around with this message at 22:31 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 22:17
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Carlioo posted:Isn't this the main reason why Psychic-types are considered overpowered in Gen 1? What with them only being weak to Ghost, a Special typing, and Ghost only having two attacks, one having fixed damage. Due to a bug, they were actually immune to Ghost. Bug was their only weakness, but all 3 attacking moves there had like really low base power. Not that it would have mattered since Lick only had 20 BP.
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May 31, 2017 22:18
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RyuHimora posted:Just to clarify this for those who don't know already, there are no Gen II pokemon that evolve via burn heal. However, the Moon Ball is supposed to see if the target pokemon can evolve via moon stone... but due to a programmer error, it checks for burn heal instead. So the Moon Ball always acts like a normal pokeball and never has any additional effect. Oh yeah, thanks for explaining that. My point is that if I were to do it, in hindsight, I'd probably check what Pokemon it is. That's very much a hindsight thing, and only after the bug has been found though. Not to mention that's more IFs than a single "IF target.getEvolvesWith()==69" (if 69 was Moon Stone/Burn Heal), so I can imagine that with space having been such a concern, it could have been that. Not to mention stuff not being finalized, so if they had something else use the Moon Stone to evolve originally, they'd need go change that check too, and so on. Huh, might not even be that, actually. The Moon Ball is supposed to be working on the entire family, from the basic Nidorans, to the fully evolved ones (Nidoking/queen, Clefable, Wigglytuff, Delcatty), not JUST in the form that would evolve with the stone. Not an issue for Skitty/Delcatty, but even in Gen II it'd need to work on the basic Nidorans, Cleffa, and Igglybuff, as well as the middle Nidorino/a, Clefairy, and Jigglypuff. I can't imagine how it's supposed to be coded then, since the Nidorans evolve just with levels, but Cleffa and Igglybuff evolve via friendship.
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May 31, 2017 22:34
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Probably just an array of true false flags
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Jun 1, 2017 00:10
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Dr. Fetus posted:Due to a bug, they were actually immune to Ghost. Bug was their only weakness, but all 3 attacking moves there had like really low base power. Not that it would have mattered since Lick only had 20 BP. Parasect with spore/growth/leech life was like the only hope for using Mewtwo's weakness against him.
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Jun 1, 2017 00:53
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Jolteon Pin Missile also actually got used.
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Jun 1, 2017 04:07
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Dr. Fetus posted:Due to a bug, they were actually immune to Ghost. Bug was their only weakness, but all 3 attacking moves there had like really low base power. Not that it would have mattered since Lick only had 20 BP.
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Jun 1, 2017 07:35
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Dr. Fetus posted:Due to a bug, they were actually immune to Ghost. Which is hilarious, because multiple in-game NPCs, the official strategy guides, and even the anime all insist that Ghost is super effective against Psychic. As a kid I was just inconsolable when I realized Ash had lied to me about how to beat Sabrina.
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Jun 1, 2017 09:28
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The real secret to beating Sabrina in G1 is a Slowbro or Snorlax with Amnesia. 
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Jun 1, 2017 09:29
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Or a few hours level grindin' and  ing her entire team.I say that, but it's been so long since the last time I played I can't remember how I beat her. I do remember that her drat teleport dungeon gym was more annoying than her actual fight.
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Jun 1, 2017 09:37
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Malachite_Dragon posted:Or a few hours level grindin' and I was maybe as old as seven at the time so this was my ultimate strategy for the whole game. My mighty Pikachu with Thundershock, Thunderbolt, Thunder, and Slam soloed the Elite Four. I don't think I ever found Mewtwo.
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Jun 1, 2017 09:44
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LAY-ZX posted:Which is hilarious, because multiple in-game NPCs, the official strategy guides, and even the anime all insist that Ghost is super effective against Psychic. As a kid I was just inconsolable when I realized Ash had lied to me about how to beat Sabrina. I had long since figured out the anime was bullshit when they had Bulbasaur use whirlwind in one of the episodes. Didn't stop me from watching it religiously before school though.
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Jun 1, 2017 12:44
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I distinctly remember the anime used the levels of skills being learned, evolutions etc. as an in-universe thing that people just somehow kind of know? It came up in like one episode ever early on and was never mentioned again AFAIK which made it stand out all the more. Even as a kid something about that weird random exposition stood out as stilted and wrong.
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Jun 1, 2017 12:57
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PMush Perfect posted:The real secret to beating Sabrina in G1 is a Slowbro or Snorlax with Amnesia. Or any kind of quick, hard-hitting physical attacker. Most of her critters are very frail, so as long as you avoid psychics and poison she's not hard to simply beat down.
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Jun 1, 2017 13:14
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Haifisch posted:Gen 1 is held together with silly string and paper clips, so obedience issues would just be another for the list of bugs and weird poo poo plaguing it. Just a note about the saving when you switch boxes thing - it actually wasn't a full save. How do I know that? Because I annoyed the hell out of my brother at one point by overwriting only some of his game with a box switch. (Before I got my own gameboy he'd let me play his but only if I started a new game and didn't save it.) It overwrote all the box and I think party pokemon, but nothing else was altered so he ended up with my low level pokemon but much further on in the game. From a certain standpoint I can kind of see the logic, why save things you don't need to when just switching boxes. But at the same time the game explicitly informs you it's saving the game, so you'd think it'd actually save the game. I'm more impressed that the half save thing somehow still results in a functioning game you can continue playing if you overwrite one save file with half of another.
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Jun 1, 2017 13:22
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General Maximus posted:Just a note about the saving when you switch boxes thing - it actually wasn't a full save. How do I know that? Because I annoyed the hell out of my brother at one point by overwriting only some of his game with a box switch. (Before I got my own gameboy he'd let me play his but only if I started a new game and didn't save it.) It overwrote all the box and I think party pokemon, but nothing else was altered so he ended up with my low level pokemon but much further on in the game. From a certain standpoint I can kind of see the logic, why save things you don't need to when just switching boxes. But at the same time the game explicitly informs you it's saving the game, so you'd think it'd actually save the game. I'm more impressed that the half save thing somehow still results in a functioning game you can continue playing if you overwrite one save file with half of another. This also meant that if you panicked halfway through saving and turned the game off because poo poo, I forgot this was my sister's file and I wasn't meant to be saving, it keeps your progress in the game... and turns every single one of your Pokemon into a glitch. Most of them crash the game as soon as you send them into battle, some of them just luck out into becoming the 'stable' glitch Pokemon like Missingno. This never happened to me, but it did happen to my brother. Needless to say, older sister was not impressed.
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Jun 1, 2017 15:33
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General Maximus posted:Just a note about the saving when you switch boxes thing - it actually wasn't a full save. How do I know that? Because I annoyed the hell out of my brother at one point by overwriting only some of his game with a box switch. (Before I got my own gameboy he'd let me play his but only if I started a new game and didn't save it.) It overwrote all the box and I think party pokemon, but nothing else was altered so he ended up with my low level pokemon but much further on in the game. From a certain standpoint I can kind of see the logic, why save things you don't need to when just switching boxes. But at the same time the game explicitly informs you it's saving the game, so you'd think it'd actually save the game. I'm more impressed that the half save thing somehow still results in a functioning game you can continue playing if you overwrite one save file with half of another. Also, it's a miracle that Gen 1 runs when you put it into your Game Boy anyways, so it running on a Frankenstein save file isn't that impressive. :P
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Jun 1, 2017 23:11
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Commander Keene posted:Also, it's a miracle that Gen 1 runs when you put it into your Game Boy anyways, so it running on a Frankenstein save file isn't that impressive. :P This. The Gen 1 games saved cartridge space by completely skipping all sanity checks. Most games always have a few background processes which, in short, go like this: quote:Is everything that's happening supposed to be happening? So far so good... And then they'd crash on purpose rather than continue allowing nonsensical poo poo to happen. Gen 1 Pokemon games didn't do this at all, so they'd only crash if the Game Boy itself couldn't handle what was happening. So we get all kinds of in-game weirdness instead of just a game that crashes all the time (which is what it would have been, if they'd shipped it as buggy as it came but with the standard sanity checks programmed in).
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Jun 2, 2017 00:12
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Link's Awakening had that as well with the pause-map glitch. You get the messed up sprites because there wasn't space on the cartridge to code in any error checking, so it's just frantically trying to make sense of reading the wrong things as data.
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Jun 2, 2017 00:39
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Sorites posted:This. The Gen 1 games saved cartridge space by completely skipping all sanity checks. So is there a reason why the first generation of Pokemon games were such a buggy mess (such as rushed development, inexperienced programmers, that sort of thing)? As considering the glitches I've read about and/or experienced myself it's a small wonder that the game even worked at all.
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Jun 2, 2017 01:49
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Inexperienced developers and the sheer size of the game. Game Freak had made, like, two games before Pokemon Red and Green. One was a puzzle game and the other was a platformer and neither was for the Game Boy. Pokemon is also a very expansive game by Game Boy standards being a very fully featured RPG. Keep in mind that when Gen II happened and a much more experienced than Game Freak Iwata came on board, he managed to shrink down the file size of Gold and Silver enough that they could add a whole second (slightly stripped down) region.
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Jun 2, 2017 01:59
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Also bear in mind that Gen 1 had a small budget & small/amateur devteam, so things couldn't be tested as well as they could with modern Pokemon games. And a lot of these glitches are things you either wouldn't notice in normal gameplay(how many kids are going to notice the agility/paralysis interaction?) or require unusual actions before they happen(like Missingno). It's amazing Missingo got well known enough to become a playground rumor, honestly.
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Jun 2, 2017 02:10
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Haifisch posted:Also bear in mind that Gen 1 had a small budget & small/amateur devteam, so things couldn't be tested as well as they could with modern Pokemon games. And a lot of these glitches are things you either wouldn't notice in normal gameplay(how many kids are going to notice the agility/paralysis interaction?) or require unusual actions before they happen(like Missingno). It's amazing Missingo got well known enough to become a playground rumor, honestly. Considering how popular Pokemon was, I'm not shocked. Every possible dumb thing had someone doing it, because maybe that's how you get Mew., or because you could convince your soon-to-be-ex friends to waste a weekend thinking they could get Pikablu. The few things that actually worked spread even faster.
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Jun 2, 2017 02:27
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quote:It's amazing Missingo got well known enough to become a playground rumor, honestly. The infinite items in slot 6/encounter safari zone Pokemon outside of the safari zone/missing o glitch was published in Nintendo Power... I want to say a month after the game came out? I'm certain that's where I read it first, I was the only kid in my class who had a game boy, let alone Pokemon blue, so there weren't any real "playground rumours" for me to pick up.
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Jun 2, 2017 03:30
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Haifisch posted:Also bear in mind that Gen 1 had a small budget & small/amateur devteam, so things couldn't be tested as well as they could with modern Pokemon games. And a lot of these glitches are things you either wouldn't notice in normal gameplay(how many kids are going to notice the agility/paralysis interaction?) or require unusual actions before they happen(like Missingno). It's amazing Missingo got well known enough to become a playground rumor, honestly.
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Jun 2, 2017 05:17
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