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Omnicrom posted:
Yeah there's some good ideas at play here in some places. This could be a pretty good game if it had a different setting, characters, plot, aesthetic and mechanics.
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Jun 10, 2017 22:19
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FPzero posted:A few general LP presentation notes I had in mind. For future updates, please consider making them smaller. I know you apologized for this but there were a number of place I could've seen you cutting off the updates. There was just so much information and text and extras included in the posts that I was partially skimming by the end of it all. Like, good effort getting it all, but maybe too much effort? I'm not sure it's necessary to have big lists of the trainers you can fight with their dialogue and all that added to the updates Also, while I appreciate you paraphrasing the text, I clicked on one to see what I was missing and saw that the full dialogue also includes things like characters showing up or moving into new areas. When paraphrasing, don't forget to actually describe the movements and characters because I know I got confused until I realized I was missing half the context.
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Jun 10, 2017 22:23
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I think I'm in the minority here, but I liked all the text. Your text, anyway. It was an interesting breakdown of everything wrong with how things are setup with the fight, and with the game as a whole. The individual trainer writeups probably don't need to happen, but aside from that I really liked it. Just be careful not to burn yourself out with something like this, cause I can see keeping up this level of explanations being incredibly taxing.
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Jun 11, 2017 03:28
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It felt like they put everything they could think of into this game. At some point you have to filter that or you wind up with two pages of dense help text describing a one-off gimmick.
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Jun 11, 2017 03:43
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Amongst all the more obvious, terrible stuff, something that bothers me greatly is using remixes of endgame boss/dungeon themes for mundane poo poo at the very start of the game. I can't listen to them right now so I dunno if they're appropriately toned down or whatever, but I doubt it.
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Jun 11, 2017 03:54
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I'd like to see screenshot versions of the big battles too, if we're offering suggestions.
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Jun 11, 2017 04:27
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AlphaKretin posted:Amongst all the more obvious, terrible stuff, something that bothers me greatly is using remixes of endgame boss/dungeon themes for mundane poo poo at the very start of the game. I can't listen to them right now so I dunno if they're appropriately toned down or whatever, but I doubt it. they're all just pretty generic techno-y/dubstep-y video game remixes, if i didn't already know what the source songs were i'd probably have a hard time pointing out which were late game serious themes and which were more standard battle tunes
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Jun 11, 2017 04:30
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Bydoless posted:It's weird that they allowed you to get 'mons with an easy way of stockpiling good items literally in the first patches of grass you can encounter. Gen 3 did it first with Zigzagoon. Literally the grass outside the starting town. That "trainer" battle music really grates on my ears. it's a mutilated slow version of the Hoenn Gym Leader/E4 theme. Who though this would be good Trainer music? Also... We arrived on a train, had an explosion, and are now wandering around the slums? gently caress, this opening is right out of FF7.
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Jun 11, 2017 04:38
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RyuHimora posted:Gen 3 did it first with Zigzagoon. Literally the grass outside the starting town. We just need to find a group of eco terrorists to join!
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Jun 11, 2017 04:41
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One thing I noticed is that, out of the 37 wild Pokemon available this early on, they're almost all extremely weak Pokemon lines rather than stuff you actually want to use (Noibat at least evolves into the fastest dragon type in the game, and Blitzle is usable). And deliberately going out of the way to make it impossible for you to have a ground type unless you traded one in from online or picked Mudkip and evolved it until after you've beaten the first (electric-type) gym is nothing but absurdity. Also, slamming right into a full team of 6 on the first gym leader is beyond rude, even ignoring the terrain bullshit at work. Pokemon games never have more than 5 Pokemon on a gym leader (until post-game rematches); even the Elite Four tops out at 5 until post-game rematches. Having a major trainer with 6 Pokemon is usually reserved only for the Champion in modern Pokemon games. If this was based off of Gen 7 you just know that Wingull wouldn't be here (since Pelipper gets Drizzle as a possible ability in SM). EDIT: Ok, I actually laughed at seeing shiny Arbok having a nuclear symbol on the chest (since Uranium has a literal Nuclear Arbok and couldn't even get that part right). EDIT 2: ...why are there 16 gym badges rather than 8? Wouldn't that just make the game drag on for an eternity (especially since judging from the level restrictions for each badge that the final fights are going to end up hitting the level cap)? the Orb of Zot fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Jun 11, 2017 |
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Jun 11, 2017 04:57
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the Orb of Zot posted:One thing I noticed is that, out of the 37 wild Pokemon available this early on, they're almost all extremely weak Pokemon lines rather than stuff you actually want to use (Noibat at least evolves into the fastest dragon type in the game, and Blitzle is usable). And deliberately going out of the way to make it impossible for you to have a ground type unless you traded one in from online or picked Mudkip and evolved it until after you've beaten the first (electric-type) gym is nothing but absurdity. Oh I can't wait for the future, but yeah, one part of Rebirth's "Difficulty" is making GBS threads on what Pokemon you can have to make sure they're all pathetically weak. Because that's 'difficult'. There's so much that can be talked about but we have to let the thread reach that point.
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Jun 11, 2017 08:03
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Thanks for all the input, everyone!FPzero posted:A few general LP presentation notes I had in mind. For future updates, please consider making them smaller. I know you apologized for this but there were a number of place I could've seen you cutting off the updates. There was just so much information and text and extras included in the posts that I was partially skimming by the end of it all. Like, good effort getting it all, but maybe too much effort? I'm not sure it's necessary to have big lists of the trainers you can fight with their dialogue and all that added to the updates Also, while I appreciate you paraphrasing the text, I clicked on one to see what I was missing and saw that the full dialogue also includes things like characters showing up or moving into new areas. When paraphrasing, don't forget to actually describe the movements and characters because I know I got confused until I realized I was missing half the context. Yeah, I underestimated the game and thought writing a single update up to the Julia wouldn't have been as big as it got. Turns out I was wrong. I'm thinking of doing the following approach: For each section of the game, specifically sections between gym leaders or other similarly noteworthy trainers, I will do a few updates focused on plot-related content, only stopping for whatever is needed to advance the plot up to the actual gym leader battle. If I didn't manage to cover all Pokemon catchable by then, I'll do another update on them prior to the actual gym leader. Maybe I'll cover other stuff like notable items we can get or whatever at the same time. Then to make things more interesting, and to not have cases like with Julia where we have this whole rant describing how bullshit she is only for the video to show otherwise, I'll ask for votes for the team to use against the gym leader using the Pokemon we obtained earlier, and the top voted teams are first to try their luck against the problematic trainer in question, with the winning team covered in the following update. Finally, to make things more interesting, and not just me wrecking the poo poo out of the gym leaders like with Julia, I'll take votes that will determine the team to use for the problematic opponent. Y'all will choose from the Pokemon we accumulated to make up my team, and I'll try and make it through with the top votes, and failing that, just use whatever to wreck poo poo as much as possible. This will allow us to get more of a feel for how bullshit the later gym leaders and other poo poo will get in the actual battle (that will be shown in both video and screenshot format for now on). Edit: To put it another way, the LP process from now on would be something like: Go through plot poo poo up until gym leader or anything as noteworthy -> Go through obtainable Pokemon and other side poo poo -> Vote for team to fight gym leader with -> The actual Gym Leader battle -> repeat RyuHimora posted:Gen 3 did it first with Zigzagoon. Literally the grass outside the starting town. It's one thing to have Pokemon with stuff like Pickup on the first patches of grass. It's another to do that and then tout your game as the ultimate challenge for real gamers who want more bullshit than what the official games can provide. Not that I'm complaining, of course. Quite the opposite, really. It makes me think that those Pokemon were added on later versions to make things less terrible. I probably forgot to make that clarification in the update since it was so big and cumbersome that I just honestly just wanted it finished. Bydoless fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Jun 11, 2017 |
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Jun 11, 2017 08:31
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Onmi posted:Oh I can't wait for the future, but yeah, one part of Rebirth's "Difficulty" is making GBS threads on what Pokemon you can have to make sure they're all pathetically weak. Because that's 'difficult'. There's so much that can be talked about but we have to let the thread reach that point. From what I understand, not only is that the intent, but they also went and changed what pokemon you could get as they updated it if it turned out any of them would actually be strong later on, such as removing Magikarp for example.
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Jun 11, 2017 09:12
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Bydoless posted:Vote for team to fight gym leader with
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Jun 11, 2017 09:18
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AlphaKretin posted:Amongst all the more obvious, terrible stuff, something that bothers me greatly is using remixes of endgame boss/dungeon themes for mundane poo poo at the very start of the game. I can't listen to them right now so I dunno if they're appropriately toned down or whatever, but I doubt it. yeah it reeks of LOOK AT HOW EPIC WE ARE. so fan-game. PMush Perfect posted:I tried this approach with my Digimon World Dawn LP. Having to potentially grind up a whole new team for every boss fight is miserable, please don't do that to yourself. I'm sure they can just hack rare candies or whatever to grind their mons. Can't do that in digimon.
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Jun 11, 2017 12:10
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Another fan game that looked at Dark Souls and only got the surface impression of "players like being punched in the balls relentlessly, right? CAAAN DO!" without even trying to understand why it worked for DS. People who want everything to be DS Hard are a blight.
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Jun 11, 2017 12:44
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drat that's a lot of effort for this crappy game, hope the changes will help stop you from burning out. Pretty fun to read so far!
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Jun 11, 2017 12:56
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I'd actually rather not vote on what pokemon you use for the gym. You see one of the things that I really enjoyed and appreciated was not just your exhibition of the game in the first update but your strategies to skip past the game's stupid crap. I was actually impressed and enthused to hear about Pickup shenanigans, and to see how you fought stupid fire with stupid fire via Lightningrod, as well as going into what Pokemon you could possibly use to counter stuff and why the pokemon selection was trash. In short one of the things that really drew me in was your guile. Leaving it up to the mercy of the thread removes a chunk of that, I'm more interested in seeing how you counterattack against the game than seeing you struggle through it. As for Gym Leaders with six pokemon I don't mind them eventually appearing, but having it on the first gym leader is a massive spike in difficulty especially when two of those pokemon exist for no other reason than to use Hyper Terrain Explosion. Those two Voltorbs really do nothing at all to add to the experience of the battle except maybe getting a cheap instant kill because difficulty amiright?
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Jun 11, 2017 15:03
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Omnicrom posted:I'd actually rather not vote on what pokemon you use for the gym. Yeah, the breakdown + how you handled it on your own was pretty neat and I'd like to see that keep going.
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Jun 11, 2017 16:29
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Malachite_Dragon posted:People who want everything to be DS Hard don't understand difficulty. Fixed that for 'ya.
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Jun 11, 2017 16:30
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Well, there's also "everything is a balls-to-the-wall desperate fight for survival that you have to counter by any means necessary" and then there's "the deck is constantly stacked against you and you have no options". Shin Megami Tensei is basically Dark Souls difficulty applied to Pokemon*, and it does work. It works largely because while the enemies are tough you're given the tools to overcome them. Matador in Nocturne has a weakness you're allowed to exploit, and you can counter Red Capote with Sukukaja. Minotaur in SMT IV hits like a truck, but deals mainly Physical damage, so if you go in with a Phys-resistant demon or two, you take a bunch of the bite out of him. Enemies in later dungeons may spam high-accuracy instant-death skills, but by that time you can nullify or reflect both of the elements they use to do so. Reborn seems to be going the path of denying you options, and that's never good. An actual SMT (or DS) difficulty Pokemon game might have a Gym Leader fight where you're at the disadvantage like the fight with Julia, but you'd be able to find Ground and Ghost type Pokemon to counter that disadvantage. I'd imagine that if any of the Reborn devs are reading this LP, they'd say, "Oh crap, we left in Pokemon with Lightning Rod, let's axe those guys so they can't ignore our intended slog". Either that or Lightning Rod is the intended way to combat that Gym, and they removed the Ground and Ghost types to keep players from wandering off their specifically marked path. I don't know how you get Hidden Abilities without cheating in this game, but relying on that gamble seems to be going down a dark road. *Disclaimer: I've never personally played DS, nor have I seen much of it played; I'm just going off what I've heard from others, including friends who have played and beaten the games.
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Jun 11, 2017 17:18
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Commander Keene posted:I'd imagine that if any of the Reborn devs are reading this LP, they'd say, "Oh crap, we left in Pokemon with Lightning Rod, let's axe those guys so they can't ignore our intended slog". Either that or Lightning Rod is the intended way to combat that Gym, and they removed the Ground and Ghost types to keep players from wandering off their specifically marked path. I don't know how you get Hidden Abilities without cheating in this game, but relying on that gamble seems to be going down a dark road. Hidden abilities in Reborn are literally just normal abilites that a Pokemon encountered in a wild or obtained otherwise can have alongside their other abilities. I think the devs might've intended you to use Pokemon with Lightningrod and such for Julia. I'd mentioned before in the update about Ame speaking through the gym entrance's intercom taking the role of the 'Champ in the making' guy in the official games. She does mention either using Pokemon immune to Electric attacks (despite the lack of Ground-types) or sucking it up and powerleveling through her, which ticks me off as them intending you to use Pokemon with Lightningrod (as well as Motor Drive in Blitzle's case). Problem is, two of the three Pokemon with such abilities (Blitzle and Pachirisu) are one-offs at best at this point, and the Pachirisu may in fact be unobtainable if you're unlucky to have a Zigzagoon spawn in its place. If you've already caught them without the intended abilities, you're stuck catching and grinding some Goldeen with Lightningrod so the devs can act all  and act like Julia is the best designed boss ever because of irony because you're relying on Water-type Pokemon against an Electric-type gym leader.EDIT: Anyway I'm taking what you guys said and I'm not gonna depend on a vote to determine a team for battling each gym leader. I could do both a cheese run using my own team meant to counter bullshit as well as a voted-in team in separate battles as a compare&contrast (using hacked-in Rare Candies for the voted-in team for sanity reasons), but I'd expect everybody here to want me to just use the cheese tactics anyway. Bydoless fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jun 11, 2017 |
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Jun 11, 2017 18:19
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Bydoless posted:I'd expect everybody here to want me to just use the cheese tactics anyway. We wanted to see this game destroyed after the first update. It does not deserve to get your suffering through it. Blow it wide open and just explain how the battle was supposed to work normally.
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Jun 11, 2017 18:40
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Bydoless posted:EDIT: Anyway I'm taking what you guys said and I'm not gonna depend on a vote to determine a team for battling each gym leader. I could do both a cheese run using my own team meant to counter bullshit as well as a voted-in team in separate battles as a compare&contrast (using hacked-in Rare Candies for the voted-in team for sanity reasons), but I'd expect everybody here to want me to just use the cheese tactics anyway. From what I've seen so far, this game doesn't deserve anything less than full cheese.
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Jun 11, 2017 18:43
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Bydoless posted:I'm thinking of doing the following approach: You should probably check message length before posting if you're concerned an update's getting too long. Both halves of this update are well over 20k characters with the text alone. For comparison, OFS's last Uranium update was 15k. Some games LP just fine with long updates, but with something like this multiple shorter updates give the audience time to digest everything that's going on. Shorter updates also encourage you to trim the fat and focus on the most interesting parts. RyuHimora posted:Fixed that for 'ya.  SirSamVimes posted:I'd like to see screenshot versions of the big battles too, if we're offering suggestions.
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Jun 11, 2017 18:44
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Enoby's sprite bothers me a lot because it reminds me of Casca from Berserk. And reading that manga might be more enjoyable than playing this game.
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Jun 11, 2017 21:15
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One of the things the developers of Pokemon Reborn love doing is changing what Pokemon appear in these earlier areas in later updates. Almost all of these have been from good Pokemon to worse Pokemon, to make the early game harder. Why they do this after giving you the option to pick up a Froakie or Torchic (still with the ability to start with their HAs) as a starter, I do not know. For instance, the Espurr that Bydo picked up? Used to be a Ralts. It was changed to a Gothita at a later point before being changed again to an Espurr. Another common theme we'll see is Pokemon that may be really useful later on, but evolve very late and are a pain in the rear end until then. Like Tynamo, and Noibat. Noibat is another new encounter - the Underground Railnet originally had Zubats, but the devs didn't want players to get actual good Pokemon like Crobat too early, so they replaced it with one that doesn't evolve until level 48. The worst case of this (so far) though, is the pair of scammers. Originally, you could, in fact, get a Magikarp here, although the guy asked for $5000 instead of another $500. Before it was changed to this...endless quest, the devs actually at one point changed this Pokemon too...to Ducklett. Presumably it is now a Magikarp again, but as stated, the quest has still not ended. This sort of thing is what I mean by retroactively making the game more frustrating. Terrain effects are also new, although I recall this gym still using the standard Electric Terrain before they were fully implemented. They get even more absurd from here on.
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Jun 11, 2017 23:11
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How complete is the game at this point, anyway? I remember hearing it was essentially being released episodically, but at this point, where are they?
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Jun 12, 2017 01:48
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Asator posted:One of the things the developers of Pokemon Reborn love doing is changing what Pokemon appear in these earlier areas in later updates. Almost all of these have been from good Pokemon to worse Pokemon, to make the early game harder. Why they do this after giving you the option to pick up a Froakie or Torchic (still with the ability to start with their HAs) as a starter, I do not know. For instance, the Espurr that Bydo picked up? Used to be a Ralts. It was changed to a Gothita at a later point before being changed again to an Espurr. Regarding changes between versions, was Julia's team nerfed in some way at any point in development? Her Emolga having Acrobatics but for some reason also holding a Potion that it can never use and never get rid of by itself does ask some questions. Also, have those Lightningrod-capable Pokemon found before Julia always existed or were they added at some point? Were you able to catch any Ground-type or Ghost-type Pokemon before Julia at any point prior to this version?
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Jun 12, 2017 05:04
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Note: One can still carry over a Magikarp from an old save file, so many have, because seriously, gently caress this bullshit
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Jun 12, 2017 05:43
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Pooncha posted:Enoby's sprite bothers me a lot because it reminds me of Casca from Berserk. And reading that manga might be more enjoyable than playing this game. correction: watching the new berserk anime might be more enjoyable than this game the manga is actually good after all
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Jun 12, 2017 07:25
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EclecticTastes posted:Instead of a villainous gang of Poke-criminals, this time the running subplot is preparing for a My Chemical Romance concert. Speaking of, for those not familiar with the seminal work of internet literature, My Immortal (from which our heroine's name is derived), a dramatic reading can be started here. It makes a fitting soundtrack for a game such as this, but as you may expect, a "fitting soundtrack" for a game like Pokemon Reborn is nothing pleasant. I don't know how I missed this saga the first time around, but I'm laughing my rear end off now. http://myimmortal.wikia.com/wiki/Ebony_Dark%27ness_Dementia_Raven_Way
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Jun 12, 2017 12:03
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This game doesn't seem unforgivably bad so far. There's a lot of bad stuff sure (hilarious darkedgy tone, overdesigned city, way too much dialogue, 37 TYPES OF TERRAIN), but I think there are some good ideas here too. I like the idea of finding a bunch of Pokemon hanging out in the world and either interacting with them for a battle, or just getting them straight on your team. While they suffer from being in the grimdark world of Pokemon, the writing for the various nameless NPCs hanging around is pretty good, and certainly way better than Uranium's board-stiff delivery. The gym leaders seem to have annoying one-note personalities, but they have those in the real games as well. They just don't have thirty pages of dialogue to slap you with, so it's not nearly as bad. While "this terrain gives the enemy a colossal advantage because DIFFICULTY" is kinda ehhh, I actually kind of like how you have to outsmart this first gym and cheese it with lightning rod. Pokemon difficulty hacks usually give the enemies really wide coverage and huge stats, and while sonic boom is absolutely a problem, this one feels like a puzzle with an answer other than getting bigger numbers. The real games never require a strategy much more complicated than "use water on the red guy", so it's kind of interesting to see all of these lightning rod pokemon placed in the perfect spot for you to use their unique talent. But this is all probably going to get flushed down the toilet and get real bad real quick, huh?
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Jun 12, 2017 16:25
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Rainuwastaken posted:While "this terrain gives the enemy a colossal advantage because DIFFICULTY" is kinda ehhh, I actually kind of like how you have to outsmart this first gym and cheese it with lightning rod. Pokemon difficulty hacks usually give the enemies really wide coverage and huge stats, and while sonic boom is absolutely a problem, this one feels like a puzzle with an answer other than getting bigger numbers. The real games never require a strategy much more complicated than "use water on the red guy", so it's kind of interesting to see all of these lightning rod pokemon placed in the perfect spot for you to use their unique talent.
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Jun 12, 2017 16:38
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Sperglord Firecock posted:correction: watching the new berserk anime might be more enjoyable than this game I didn't realize there was a new anime version out. I also agree the manga is pretty good, early installment oddities aside.
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Jun 12, 2017 17:11
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Pooncha posted:I didn't realize there was a new anime version out. Please don't realize there is a new anime version out. Save yourself while you still can.
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Jun 12, 2017 18:43
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Pooncha posted:I didn't realize there was a new anime version out. "Berserk is Good" is still a different thing than "Berserk is Fun."
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Jun 12, 2017 18:43
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Pooncha posted:I didn't realize there was a new anime version out. Good, keep it that way if you can.
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Jun 12, 2017 18:56
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Jun 12, 2017 19:56
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