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krisslanza
May 6, 2011

Carlioo posted:

D-did they actually come up with 37 different types of terrain with different effects? I don't know if I should be impressed by that, or angry that they seriously believe that anyone could remember 37 different terrains.

From what I understand, according to TVTropes, the terrain effects pretty much just exist for the sole purpose of ensuring the major battles involving gym leaders and... others, I guess.. always have an advantage over you, because uhm, I dunno. Artificial difficulty?
The maddening thing is someone made another fangame called Pokemon Rejuvenation, I think, which is a 'spiritual successor' to Reborn that the key point is to be even more difficult.
Also the story is just about as bad.

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krisslanza
May 6, 2011

FPzero posted:

So okay, that was interesting stuff. I like the idea of more pokemon hanging out in the world that you can obtain through events, though Reborn maybe went too far with it and obscure conditions. Also wow that city is big and needlessly overdecorated.

Oh, you don't even know yet. :allears:
This will be a magical ride.

krisslanza
May 6, 2011

RyuHimora posted:

Gen 3 did it first with Zigzagoon. Literally the grass outside the starting town.

That "trainer" battle music really grates on my ears. it's a mutilated slow version of the Hoenn Gym Leader/E4 theme. Who though this would be good Trainer music?

Also... We arrived on a train, had an explosion, and are now wandering around the slums?

gently caress, this opening is right out of FF7.

We just need to find a group of eco terrorists to join!

krisslanza
May 6, 2011

Haifisch posted:

Of course they do. :what:

Over/under on this being a pro tactic in a later fight?

But somehow you survive the entire ceiling collapsing on you!

krisslanza
May 6, 2011

Onmi posted:

PULSE is a story spoiler, we will encounter more PULSE pokemon and inevitably they will contain no themeing and do nothing to actually make that Pokemon better.

From what I've looked into on my own, PULSE is going to go stupid places.
I daresay, even stupider places then Nuclear Pokemon! Much stupider, actually to be entirely honest.

krisslanza
May 6, 2011

Alacron posted:

I remember a few years back where people were theorizing that one of the villains in One Piece was born as conjoined triplets, two of which were absorbed in the womb.

So as far as "What's the dumbest thing you can come up with?" that's my guess.

I'm somehow thinking of the "super baby method" from MGS1.
Which, despite how much stuff MGS sounds like is made up, but is actually real, I was a bit disappointed to find out the "super baby method" isn't an actual thing.

krisslanza
May 6, 2011

Bydoless posted:

And while we're on the subject of MegaPULSE Tangrowth, there's apparently a hard mode mod for this game mentioned on this game's TV Tropes page:

Giving "Gym leaders from the foruth gym on Mega Evolutions" doesn't actually sound so extreme when we're fighting what are basically Mega Evolved Pokemon with minmaxed stats between the first and second gyms, does it.

Heck, TVTropes let me know that someone has made a "spiritual successor" to Reborn, Rejuvenation, which seems to be a spiritual successor in the way of it also having a really bad plotline that is edgy, and being more difficult.

krisslanza
May 6, 2011

Robindaybird posted:

I like the bit of depth to him added in HGSS where if you tried to sneak in using a Rocket costume, he gets mad - calling the protag weak for using an underhand tactic and rip the costume off.

The fandom has had a lot of fun with that one.
I also liked how HGSS made "naming" him kind of make more sense. Even if he's like, "Whoops, dropped my ID!" and then walks off after getting it. Makes a lot more sense then him saying: "MY NAME IS ????"

krisslanza
May 6, 2011
You know, the idea of getting most of your Pokemon via side quests or something isn't an inherently awful idea, I think? It's kind of neat or different but... given Reborn's awful balancing and all...
I mean, I guess so far, at least I can say Reborn wasn't stupid enough to lock Berries behind the postgame at least? Smallest of silver linings!

krisslanza
May 6, 2011

Commander Keene posted:

I have to say, crap like this and their constantly-revised Pokemon availability lists are what makes Uranium, despite all of its flaws, seem more like the more fun game to actually play (unless you pick the Grass starter, I guess). Uranium's design philosophy is basically "Pokemon where everyone in the world breeds for competitive play". There might be bullshit fights where some Trainer has a min/maxed beast with maxed EVs and perfect IVs and Natures and a synergistic moveset or whatever bullshit goes into making a Pokemon the best murderbeast it can possibly be, but at least you get superweapons like Tracton, Inflageta, and Nucleon to play with as well. Reborn's design philosophy is "because gently caress you". You need to fight tooth and nail in order to have literally anything, and nearly every encounter is a puzzle boss with exactly one solution which you have to do exactly as the developers intended. If somebody discovers a way out of their "clever" traps, the Reborn devs simply remove whatever Pokemon was used to circumvent their "devious and perfect" game design, because gently caress you, that's why.

So basically Reborn devs are the guys who made Absolute Virtue in FFXI :v:

krisslanza
May 6, 2011

Zore posted:

Yeah.

Like I said, everything surrounding Absolute Virtue is an exercise in hating that players.

It's certainly something that the FFXI team went onto make FFXIV. When it flopped and ARR was made, the first thing they did was sack the entire original team, because they had no idea how to make an MMO.

krisslanza
May 6, 2011

Omnicrom posted:

Meanwhile in the realm of Reborn I'll say the one thing I liked in this last update were the candy items. It actually makes a lot of sense to see Friendship boosting overpriced candy to act as a counterpoint to friendship lowering overpriced medicine, that's good fangame faffery. Also getting a Vanillite out of an ice cream machine made me chuckle. Meanwhile the Double Intimidate dogs, MECHANIGHTMARE and its nerfed as hell reward, the bullshit surrounding the department store, weirdly angry blind lady, the poor pacing of the game, ORIGINAL TEAM DUN STEAL, the incredible verboseness of the game in general, and the incredibly lame Lillipup chase remind me again this isn't a good game.

Honestly I wouldn't mind all these sidequests if there was a semblance of a main quest worth a drat happening.

The Vanillite thing makes me think of the Dorkly series, Pokemon Rusty, where he actually DID buy a Vanillite... then got it melted by Blaine but, you know.
I think that was a Vanillite though. I might be reading too much into it being a reference, but...


Dr. Fetus posted:

Honestly it just sounds to me like it was never intended to be killable, but they just didn't give it straight up invulnerability or told players that because the devs enjoyed watching them struggle or something. That's the only sane conclusion I can draw after I heard that they patched out their own "intended" solution.

You know, I think EverQuest did this? They had an unkillable boss, for plot reasons. But at least that was kind enough to let you be aware of that. AV is just a horrible, horrid mess. It's like they saw One Sin from .hack, and thought "let's copy it!"
Forgetting that One Sin was actually defeatable.

krisslanza
May 6, 2011

PoptartsNinja posted:

Finally, an in-game use for Simple Beam / Entrainment!

I love Simple Beam, it's amazingly good at loving up strategies that revolve around Pokemon abilities, which most of these "hard" fangames seem to over-use. It's a pity Simple Beam isn't a TM move and that the fastest Simple Beam user is Linoone (followed by Genesect and Xatu), with only Genesect learning the move naturally. You have to breed it onto Linoone and Xatu.

Entrainment's easier since Plusle and Minun learn in naturally and match Xatu's 95 speed, Dedenne is faster than Linoone (but potentially has a good ability you wouldn't want to pass on in Cheek Pouch), but Lopunny's the fastest and can pass around Klutz provided you don't want to use Mega Lopunny. I'm also a fan of Entrainment Araquanid. It's a surprisingly chufty tank and being able to pass Water Bubble to steel types or physical attackers that can't afford to eat burns in doubles is pretty nice.

I'd love to see some super-boss's strat completely ruined this way, it'd make my day. Contrary + Overheat/Superpower/Etc? Enjoy your doubled stat drop, dropping your held item, or empowering a friend if it has the "Plus" ability!

Knowing the devs of Reborn, they'd probably remove that ability from the game or change it, or make their super bosses immune to it or something.

krisslanza
May 6, 2011

Ace of Aces posted:

I realise that Absolute Virtue was a while ago (I've been in the country with no internet) but something that needs to be mentioned is uh, AV shares a lot of similarities with a 'raid boss' in the backstory of .Hack - you know how Balmung of the Azure Sky and Orca of the Azure Sea have those fancy titles? They got them by teaming up to take down this boss (like AV, it had a gimmick where you had to counter it cyclically, and it was best fought with two players instead of the maximum 3 in order to minimize lag time and potential mixups when executing the counter), and I'm pretty sure this thing came first.

So AV which is the punchline to basically any and all unkillable superbosses, is apparently based on a boss (there are more similarities than just the gimmick, I am massively skimming here) who is only notable because it died to two guys who are a big deal.

AV might be somewhat similar to One Sin from .hack, but One Sin was actually killable.

For the unaware, in .hack's backstory, One Sin was a previously believed to be undefeatable boss that hanged around in Sickened Imprisoned Fallen Angel. It was a superboss with 65,536HP in a zone full of nasty high-level monsters in the first place. The One Sin would instantly counterattack any attack thrown at it, so many players never figured out its gimmick to kill it, since they'd just attack it and get their butts kicked.

In reality all it took was attacking it with the opposite element of whatever element it was currently using to deal damage. But that also meant, at least according to Balmung and Bear, and a certain Poet who was watching, you could never beat the One Sin using a conventional set-up. Three players would be too chaotic, so only two players could do it.

krisslanza
May 6, 2011

Eopia posted:

...How is that in any way too chaotic for three people?

Just what the official novels said about it. One of the books I had has some players watch the fight, and say it'd been impossible to do it with a full party (3 people), because it'd be too chaotic. Presumably you have to perfectly time the attacks, so you could only do it with a duo.

krisslanza
May 6, 2011

Xelkelvos posted:

SAO sounds like it was written by someone who only read about MMOs and never played any.

Someone actually did a video on analyzing SAO just as an actual game.
Many of its things that sound/look neat on paper... are actually really horrible for actual gameplay purposes. That's also ignoring the fact the author of SAO seems to think the single most important thing for an MMO player is their reflexes, given that is Kirito's single 'special' thing that makes him so strong.

krisslanza
May 6, 2011

Rainuwastaken posted:



:v: Most of these people probably only know of scenes like this, or the one where an Arbok totally gets chopped in half, man! That pokemon got MURDERED!

(That pokemon did not get murdered)

From what I have seen, Pokemon Special does have its more dark moments, but they're probably more stand-out moments instead of the norm. Which might be an issue people doing 'grimdark' stuff run into, is trying to make everything grimdark, all the time, instead of just trying to dole out the moments when appropriate.

krisslanza
May 6, 2011

dungeon cousin posted:

Terrains should have like three effects tops.

It does feel like a bit much, doesn't it?
This is like the Yugioh stuff during the first Pegasus arc. Just tons of little tiny rules that shouldn't really exist.

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krisslanza
May 6, 2011

EclecticTastes posted:

Pfft, sounds like someone's a filthy CASUAL. It's like you think Pokemon is meant for children or something!
:goonsay:

This is just making me think of Pokemon Rusty with the EV Training song.

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