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EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Waffleman_ posted:

I have a bad feeling that this thing's gonna get super horny about the Gossip Gardevoir and I'm dreading it.

Given that this was made on the internet, it's kind of an inevitability. Can't say I'm aware of any Pokemon fan work that involves Gardevoir that doesn't get weird about it somehow.

The origin of this particular game reminds me of a time in high school when some people from the City of Heroes boards, including myself, tried to make our own fake Pokemon League to take advantage of Gen IV's online capabilities. We got as far as coming up with teams and (actually quite good) custom sprites for a website before the project ran out of steam. It was dorky as gently caress but at least we knew well enough to stick with the actual tone of Pokemon rather than replacing it with some My Chemical Romance poo poo.

On that note, I'll add another vote for Enoby and Protean Froakie named Dementia.

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EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Ometeotl posted:

...That's it? Of all the ways they could incorporate a Loss.jpg pokemon, that's all they could come up with?

Right?! I made the same observation when the Pokemon was brought up in the Uranium thread. Just off the top of my head, they could have done a three-stage evolution line with a Mega Evolution, and made each one correspond to one of the panels, and that would have been far more interesting than just slapping the meme lines on a square block. That's what makes Clover doubly offensive, not only is the humor garbage, but it's lazy garbage, so they can't even claim the "just a joke lol" defense, because jokes require effort.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Ramos posted:

Super pumped for Enoby's gratuitously goffik adventures. :dance:

Instead of a villainous gang of Poke-criminals, this time the running subplot is preparing for a My Chemical Romance concert. Speaking of, for those not familiar with the seminal work of internet literature, My Immortal (from which our heroine's name is derived), a dramatic reading can be started here. It makes a fitting soundtrack for a game such as this, but as you may expect, a "fitting soundtrack" for a game like Pokemon Reborn is nothing pleasant.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Begemot posted:

They had made nine games before pokemon, two of them on game boy. But both of them were relatively simple puzzle games. Game Freak was founded in 1989, so it's not like they were amateurs, but they had never made anything nearly as complex as pokemon, and fitting it on the game boy was a challenge beyond their capabilities.

Game Freak is still a weirdly small company for how popular pokemon is, and they sort of do whatever they want as long as they keep making pokemon too. In the past few years they even released a couple games on steam, and a solitaire-based horse racing game on 3ds.

I dunno about the others but Pocket Card Jockey is amazing and you should play it right now.

I'll second the recommendation of Pocket Card Jockey, though it can be a little frustrating at times when the cards just seem out to screw you over, which can ruin not just a race, but your horse's entire development.

As for Pokemon, I do think it's important to note that the original games took up literally all the available space on the cartridge, that's why it lacked even the most basic sanity checks against things like arbitrary code execution. It's not that Game Freak didn't know about those hazards (most of them would have been glaringly obvious from a coding standpoint, since the vast majority of Gen I's bugs are pointer errors reading random chunks of memory, or in the case of the ACE bug, writing random chunks of memory), they just plain didn't have room to fit safeguards.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

BioEnchanted posted:

Also the series already has edgy pokemon - the Dark class are all cheaters and bastards. They aren't dark as an element, that's their personality. They don't beat psychic types due to a block on their powers - they think one thing and do another. They don't beat fighting types at their own game, they refuse to play fair - they feint, they have beat-up (Mechanically, each pokemon gets a hit. In Universe? The Dark pokemon goes to the trainers belt, releases all his friends, cracks his knuckles and says "Let's get to work...") they also have poor sportmanship: Why do you think Bite is now a dark move - it's bad form!

One small correction, Fighting beats Dark, because justice always defeats evil (and martial arts is generally seen as heroic). That or the straightforward approach beats trickery. But yeah, Dark is called "Evil" in the Japanese version, and so it encompasses various forms of unsportsmanlike conduct, as well as expressions of evil intent (moves like Dark Pulse aren't so much actual darkness as they are bursts of concentrated killing intent, like Akuma from Street Fighter uses for his Gohadoken).

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

:stare:

Sounds like a Trainer Tip you'd find in Pokemon Clover.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Regalingualius posted:

I'm curious: did they outright make some classes useless in the process of closing whatever strategies players used to beat AV?

By my understanding of the incidents, the alterations of the code were mostly applied to the boss itself, rather than the game at large. They closed the loopholes that allowed players to glitch the boss out, they upped its resistances or regeneration when players overwhelmed them, and basically did everything short of just making it completely untargetable.

EDIT: Just as a note, the "official" way to beat the boss was never discovered, with power creep eventually allowing players to just overpower the drat thing, which the devs didn't nerf because that would ultimately break their precious "intended" solution, which involved locking down its powers by having the players use their own matching powers the instant the boss used them, and then a bunch of other stuff the player base couldn't figure out from watching SE's official "dev team kills the boss for you so you plebs can finally do it RIGHT" video.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Jul 4, 2017

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Regalingualius posted:

Wasn't one of those powerful abilities you were supposed to somehow know to counter an instant-cast "you heal to full HP" thing?

Basically, yeah, it had access to every class's "Two-Hour" ability, one of which was an extremely powerful heal, and in order to lock them down, you had to have a character of the corresponding class cast their own two-hour within a couple seconds of Absolute Virtue doing so.

Oh? What's that? You don't know about two-hour abilities? Yeah, each class in FFXI had an ability that was very powerful and could turn the tide of battles and such. They had two-hour cooldown timers. That's real time. They were later reduced, when the devs decided two entire hours was a bit much, to one real goddamn hour.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."
I feel like Chesnaught doesn't get nearly enough props just because Greninja and Delphox got so much hype during Gen VI, but Chesnaught owns pretty hard, too, and Decidueye is pretty fantastic. The two most recent generations have been really on-point with their starters in general, they're some of the best in the entire franchise.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Lobsterman posted:

I love Absolute Virtue derails, they always make me nostalgic for the...not quite so malicious but still 'what is wrong with the devs' Hamidon.

Whoa whoa whoa, what's this about Hamidon? I was one of the most prolific City of players back in the day, and while I heard the occasional grumbling about the enhancements it dropped, I didn't hear many complaints about Hamidon itself. If anything, the main thing I heard about was that nobody cared about it. Much of the player base for City of was always more interested in basically every other kind of content, or even just faffing about (I'd cite this as both the reason City of remains the only MMO I'd actually call an unqualified "good game", and also the reason it ultimately wound up financially insolvent). I recall a number of players joking along the lines of "What's a Hamidon?" I'm interested in your perspective, since I'm guessing you were one of the few people that actually did the Hamidon raid on the reg.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Glazius posted:

Several things happened after that to change the fight. First (chronologically), enhancements were soft-capped at a 100% boost, so tanks and healers with crazy high health and restoration were a bit of a thing of the past, as were controllers with extremely long single-target CCs. In the Hamidon game this changed things for the worse. In the non-Hamidon game this was kind of welcomed, as it came alongside a downgrade in enemy power and boost in enemy rewards. So basically instead of maxing out your tank/damage/heals and pushing the edge of the math envelope against enemies as blood-red as you could find, you could actually have appreciable attacks and defenses at the same time and fight content closer to on-level for the same payout.

I don't know who you spoke to, but "Enhancement Diversification" (yes, the puerile ED jokes were on full display with that name) was initially met on the official forums with a fury I had not seen since the massive Regeneration nerf around, I think, Issue 3. That it was paired with massive nerfs to both Controllers and Tankers didn't help. And the enemy adjustments didn't drop until months after Issue 5 (where said nerfs and ED were introduced), possibly Issue 6 or even the launch of City of Villains, and weren't publicized nearly as much as they should have been. That's the story of pretty much every major nerf up until Jack Emmert left. The nerf was more-or-less justified, but they presented them in the absolute worst possible light. Mark Miller taking over was the best thing that happened to the game, even though it eventually died.


PMush Perfect posted:

To my understanding, CoH died, essentially, because the endgame content was just horrifically mismanaged in general.

This is mostly true, most of the "hardcore" players who had been around for years were basically using it as a very fancy chatroom where you could occasionally go out and punch some dudes in costumes, and there just weren't enough of them to sustain things. It's a drat shame, too, I mean, all the non-endgame content was fantastic (despite the PR issues of the dev team), but it just couldn't retain the sort of players that made WoW a success, and those are the people you need to get if you want long-term financial viability in an MMO, especially after it went F2P (with the subscription model, you had scores of people who just kept their subscription up despite never actually playing, because they would always say "Oh, I'll definitely play some more soon").

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

PMush Perfect posted:

Case in point, the most popular CoH "revival" is basically just a 3D chatroom using the assets from your CoX install.

(This is also because NCSoft has never released the server code, but eh, details.)

This is true, people liked just making their characters and costumes, writing backstories, and whatever else more than the actual game (even though it was a pretty solid game, all told). Like, being honest, had they not gone F2P and had that been a viable business model, I'd have continued paying that subscription all the way to right now just for the mere option of going in to see my characters and revel in my creative agency, so they clearly did something right, it's just that "something" wasn't "make money".

(Also, the lack of server code didn't stop some people, prior to drama causing it to implode, someone used to run a private CoH/V server, though it was just begging for a C&D.)

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Glazius posted:

Complaining about ED did start a long time before Issue 6, yes. A decent proportion of the people who were big enough maniacs to post on the official game forums were also big enough maniacs to jump on the public test server, where the changes were released. But the boost to enemy rewards showed up at the same time, before they both went live. It's just that, y'know, absolute worst possible light, right? They got pretty much no promotion or explanation next to all the maths they had to drop on people so ED didn't blindside them. (white is the new orange, orange is the new purple, putting a team together to do regular ol' instanced content is the new putting a team together to jump on purples in hazard zones)

On the one hand, I don't think the game got that much harder, but on the other, I basically stopped seriously playing any character except my Masterminds from the moment I got my CoV beta invite (which coincided with ED, as I recall), and Masterminds were consistently the game's easy mode from their introduction right until the very end.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."
In fairness, edgy, tryhard poo poo is basically the norm for fanfiction in general, so it's not surprising that "fanfiction, but a game" follows the pattern.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Sindai posted:

Of course nobody could see through a mechanic that's been in every JRPG ever

Every time I hear about .Hack it sounds like none of the writers ever actually played a video game

That would go a long way to explaining why the developers' apparent platonic ideal for MMOs was Phantasy Star Online. No joke, The World was based directly on PSO, complete with every PC just being a generic class/gender-specific model with a color swap applied, the gameplay consisting of hub worlds and disconnected maps, and so on, and while that's not a bad setup for a console MMO, in-universe, the characters are all playing on computers. Granted, Everquest's Japanese release was a bit of a niche item, but still, you'd think they'd have done at least cursory research on western MMOs before making their overly ambitious multimedia franchise on the topic.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Omnicrom posted:

You say that like attacking the moon was something that went away.



I quite enjoy that the Yu-Gi-Oh devs decided to make cards based on all the bullshit the writers pulled during Duelist Kingdom.

Also, in case anyone was still wondering why it made no sense during that arc, it's because the card game didn't exist yet, and the manga's author had intended "Duel Monsters" to just be one of the many, many games his manga focused on (before Duel Monsters, the manga was just about a mostly-evil spirit possessing a kid to murder bad guys with poo poo like air hockey and clock solitaire), so he didn't put a ton of thought into the rules. But, when the card game that was intended as a generic-brand Magic The Gathering became a bit hit with readers, the author more or less tossed out everything he'd done up to that point and focused entirely on the children's card game. It's sort of like if Pokemon had originally been a manga about competitive animal breeding (kennel clubs, livestock contests, etc.) until Pokemon were introduced to add an action element and wound up so popular that they took over.

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EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

ChrisBTY posted:

I'm just waiting for when Pokemon fan game makers to just give up on the concept of 'difficulty' and just opt for 'impossible'.

Pokemon fan game where your rival has a level 100 Super Deoxys with a base 180 in every stat and your starter is a level 1 Sunkern.
Supplicants on their message boards telling people to complain about it to 'git gud'

Pfft, sounds like someone's a filthy CASUAL. It's like you think Pokemon is meant for children or something!
:goonsay:

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