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Ah, King's Quest and the Sierra glory days. It's weird to me that the King's Quest got, I think, more installments than any of the other lines, when it was worse than Police Quest, miles below Space Quest and incomparable to Quest for Glory. I don't want to believe that they sold better than the good games did.
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Jun 27, 2017 11:45
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The main thing I remember about King's Quest 2 is how it actively punishes exploration in a very specific and non-obvious way. I'm sure DoubleNegative will cover it when it's relevant so I won't spoil it but it's a huge dick move and can make your game unwinnable at any time and you might not realize it until you're almost at the end. Boy, times sure have changed. I used to think Sierra games were awesome.
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Jun 27, 2017 12:05
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No bad death puns? Boo. 
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Jun 27, 2017 12:47
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Walrus Pete posted:The main thing I remember about King's Quest 2 is how it actively punishes exploration in a very specific and non-obvious way. I'm sure DoubleNegative will cover it when it's relevant so I won't spoil it but it's a huge dick move and can make your game unwinnable at any time and you might not realize it until you're almost at the end. I almost forgot about that. The first KQ games I played were 3 and 4; though I have since played all of them they're the ones I think of first. And they're just so much better; 3 has some hard limits early on but they're for an in-game reason and can be removed, and 4 was just all-around improved. Except for climbing up the stairs in the tower. gently caress that. Edit: removed a minor spoiler in case we get up to KQ4. Prism fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 12:50
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KQ1 was one of my first computer games I played, along with the original prince of persia. Only played 1, but really wanted to play the others, so I'm looking forward to the rest of the games.
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Jun 27, 2017 14:08
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I've only played (not beaten) one King's Quest game, I think it was KQV. It's gratifying to see the bullshit deaths were around since day one.
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Jun 27, 2017 15:14
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Yeah, Early Sierra game design objectively sucks, but they were the trailblazers. But for some perspective, KQ is also their oldest (recognizable) property, so it's going to have the roughest edges--KQ2 was released a year and a half before SQ1 and 2 years before PQ1, for example. QFG1 was fully 4 years after it. That's a helluva lot of time to refine the process and get better writing talent, and it shows. KQ1 and 2 would basically be called tech demos these days.
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Jun 27, 2017 15:46
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OAquinas posted:KQ1 and 2 would basically be called tech demos these days.
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Jun 27, 2017 15:55
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Dr. Fetus posted:No bad death puns? Boo. We'll just have to compensate with even worse puns. "A quick dip in a sickly pond left you pickled."
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Jun 27, 2017 18:29
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Sage Grimm posted:We'll just have to compensate with even worse puns. "Your quest to find a wife and son left you with poi-son."
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Jun 27, 2017 18:44
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I know this references a later game but... "Look out, Graham! A poisonous lake!"
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Jun 27, 2017 18:47
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Colander Crotch posted:I know this references a later game but... I heard it in his voice 
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Jun 27, 2017 19:28
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Colander Crotch posted:I know this references a later game but... This just made me realize for the first time how many poisonous snakes there are in this series.
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Jun 28, 2017 01:56
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Nidoking posted:This just made me realize for the first time how many poisonous snakes there are in this series.
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Jun 28, 2017 04:19
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Xander77 posted:None. Snakes are venomous. They could also be poisonous, you don't know.
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Jun 28, 2017 05:41
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>bite snake
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Jun 28, 2017 13:17
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PurpleXVI posted:Ah, King's Quest and the Sierra glory days. It's weird to me that the King's Quest got, I think, more installments than any of the other lines, when it was worse than Police Quest, miles below Space Quest and incomparable to Quest for Glory. I don't want to believe that they sold better than the good games did. I suspect nepotism played at least somewhat of a role. King's Quest was Roberta's brainchild, so it was the first who got to take advantage of new technology as Sierra developed it. King's Quest 1, 4, 5, 6 and 7 were all very technologically impressive for the time they were released and KQ1, 4 and 5 all were the first to get to take advantage of a new engine. That in turn gave the games a higher profile than some of Sierra's other franchises. The nepotism apparantly got silly at times. I once heard that the djinni in Quest for Glory 2 was initially supposed to be trapped in a lamp, but the idea got axed because King's Quest 2 already had a djinn in a lamp, so they were forced to change it to a ring instead. Sierra's KQ2 is a bit of a weird game. Its graphics are slightly better than its predecessor and my version had 4 speed settings instead of KQ1's 3, but in some ways it seemed a step back. Unlike KQ1's sandboxy nature, KQ2's a lot more linear since you can only search for one key at a time, but it doesn't have an in-game plot that can take advantage of that linearity. Speaking of plot, KQ1's treasures, the villains who took them, the places they hid them and the circumstances in which they were taken were detailed in the game's manual. The keys from the sequel and the locations they were hidden weren't part of the plotline at all, so the whole thing feels slightly more disjointed. Like, they had a country and they had to add a couple of things in there, so Roberta just randomly put a couple of post-it notes with a handful of folklore figures in there and that's what the developers had to work with.
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Jun 28, 2017 21:44
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Erpy posted:The nepotism apparantly got silly at times. I once heard that the djinni in Quest for Glory 2 was initially supposed to be trapped in a lamp, but the idea got axed because King's Quest 2 already had a djinn in a lamp, so they were forced to change it to a ring instead. King's Quest 2 was released in 1987 (re-release to run under DOS) and Quest for Glory 2 was released in 1990, so that wouldn't be nepotism.
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Jun 28, 2017 22:03
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Erpy posted:The nepotism apparantly got silly at times. I once heard that the djinni in Quest for Glory 2 was initially supposed to be trapped in a lamp, but the idea got axed because King's Quest 2 already had a djinn in a lamp, so they were forced to change it to a ring instead. I'm not sure what nepotism had to do with that, but in the actual Aladdin story, he summons a djinn from a ring before he does so from a lamp (though yes, the lamp's genie was more powerful). The ring wasn't used in Disney's Aladdin so a lot of people who were growing up then and learned the story from the movie forget about it, but both those games came out before the movie did (1992). Prism fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 23:12
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Not to mention King's Quest slap-dash fantasy kitchen sink is fairly open-ended where things can taken, while Quest for Glory - the Coles had a very definite plotline and story progression in mind.
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Jun 28, 2017 23:31
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Robindaybird posted:Not to mention King's Quest slap-dash fantasy kitchen sink is fairly open-ended where things can taken, while Quest for Glory - the Coles had a very definite plotline and story progression in mind. ...which is why Quest for Glory 3 was shoehorned into the plot line as a filler episode...
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Jun 29, 2017 00:39
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ulmont posted:...which is why Quest for Glory 3 was shoehorned into the plot line as a filler episode... yeah 3 was a combination of them feeling like going from Wizard to not!Cthulhu was too much of a jump in threat levels, and that Reeshka and Uhara proved both popular with fans and their backgrounds proved too tempting to not explore their story. But otherwise, they did have more or less a firm idea of what they wanted to do.
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Jun 29, 2017 01:22
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Robindaybird posted:yeah 3 was a combination of them feeling like going from Wizard to not!Cthulhu was too much of a jump in threat levels, and that Reeshka and Uhara proved both popular with fans and their backgrounds proved too tempting to not explore their story. But otherwise, they did have more or less a firm idea of what they wanted to do. This made me look up what the Coles were doing , and I'd completely forgot about their kickstarter! So this is good news for me!
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Jun 29, 2017 01:43
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 Hello everyone and welcome back to King's Quest II. Now that we've got the first death out of the way, let's continue on and see what we can't accomplish.   : There is a stake leaning against a tree. : It appears to be an ordinary tent stake.This will come into play toward the end of the game. Try and guess how! If you already know, then no cheating. This is screen D2 by the way.  Unlike the first game where only a set number of screens were dangerous, this time most of them are. The thieving dwarf is back from the first game, as well as the enchanter (that I never showed off), and rounding out the enemies is the local witch. They can pop up on most of the screens. So if you're making your way around, it's best to play things safe and stick to the outer edges of the screen when possible. : The old hag, Hagatha, is nearby! You can hear her cackling and smacking her gums as she comes closer. She would love to have you for dinner, and I don't mean as a guest! Case in point. Hagatha appeared out of nowhere from the top part of the screen, and is beelining straight for King Graham. Unlike the first game, we can't kill her. So we just need to continue Graham's proud tradition and run away.  Down on F3, we find a collapsed tree.  : I wonder if there's anything inside...: When Graham peers into the old hollow log, he sees a flashing necklace of diamonds and sapphires! : The chain of the beautiful necklace is fashioned of many sparking diamonds and sapphires. In the center of the pendant is a large, glittering sapphire.: I though Daventry was rich with its golden walnuts, but Kolyma seems to be infested with diamond and sapphire jewelry. Down on screen G4 is this little tree house where the Dwarf lives. We'll duck into his house later on and rob him blind for a change. Right now we're still out exploring the land.  Here on screen F5 is this lone tree with some rocks piled up next to it. : Graham climbs up onto the rocks and peers into the hole. Inside, he can see a mallet. : The head of the mallet is made of iron. It has a long, wooden handle.  Screens A5 and A6 are home to a little spanish style mission. There's even a neat message if you knock on the door. : It is not neessary to knock at a church door. All are welcome. : Excuse me...: The praying monk does not respond. He seems deep in worship.: Graham kneels down and prays at the altar with the monk. : The plump monk lifts his head from prayer and seems to notice Graham for the first time. He stands up. : What is your name, my child?: My name is Graham. You actually have to type "Graham" into the text parser. : I know of your quest, King Graham. I wish I could offer you aid, but all I have to give is this cross.: I would be honored to accept your cross.: It is blessed, and will protect you from evil. May it serve you well.: The monk bows to Graham and then resumes his prayers. : The shiny cross and its chain are both made from silver.This next step is something that you may not think to do, but is incredibly important all the same. : Graham places the silver cross and chain around his neck, wearing it as a necklace. One screen down from the mission, is this pond. The small hole in the rock sticks out like a sore thumb, so let's investigate. : A glint from between the rocks catches Graham's eye. He gets closer and sees a glittering diamond and sapphire brooch lying on the ground. : The brooch has an enormous sapphire encircled by two rows of glittering diamonds.I'm starting to notice a diamond and sapphire theme.  Back up on A5, just randomly wandering around looking for treasure, and a random event happens. : A beautiful fairy floats down from the sky! She sprinkles fairy dust on Graham. : Good King Graham, I am here to help you. I give you a protective spell against certain evil elements; but beware, for it lasts only a short time.The fairy's protection is exactly like the fairy godmother from the first game, except you can get it multiple times.  So now fortified with protection, let's end this update by exploring the dwarf's house.  Graham doesn't climb ladders well. He attaches to them fine, but you have to use the rather imprecise start-and-stop movement to get down.  Someone smarter than I am would find this is an excellent time to return the game speed to normal, or at least fast. Otherwise you can't really fine tune your movement.  : It seems Graham has entered the underground home of the litte dwarf. It is cozy, with a fire crackling in the hearth. There is a trunk tucked away in the corner.The dwarf has a chance to be home when you enter this screen. If he catches you in his house, and you don't have fairy protection, he'll kick you out and you have to try again. Anyway, there's only two things worth doing on this screen. First, we need to get close to the fire. : OUCH!!!! This fire is HOT! You're going to burn yourself.The flavor message lets you know you're close enough to get the item. : Graham grabs the wooden handle of the bubbling pot of chicken soup. He takes the pot with him.Next after the pot, the chest that the look command pointed out... : Graham opens the chest and looks inside. There are a pair of earrings inside.Three guesses what the earrings are made of.  : The pot contains hot, bubbling chicken soup. : The diamond and sapphire earrings are very delicate. Each earring has a large sapphire surrounded by glittering diamonds.Anyway, that's going to do it for the main part of the update. But I have some bonus content as well!  First off, you can indeed type "swim" in order to start swimming. Poil asked if typing drown into the parser did anything while swimming.  Sadly no.  MagusofStars and Jabor wanted to know about swimming into the ocean.  So no swimming across the ocean back to Daventry, either. Let me know if there's more stuff you guys want me to show off. The game world is so small that it takes basically no time at all to do something weird. I also have all my saves still, so I can load any point from the start to the finish in an instant. NEXT TIME: This game has a plot. We should actually attend to that. List of Points +2 - Raising the Stakes +7 - Priceless jewelry in the fallen tree +2 - Mallet in the tree +2 - Praying +2 - Holy Cross +2 - Wearing the cross +1 - Looking in a dark hole +7 - More priceless jewlery in a mundane location +2 - Stealing supper +7 - Yet more priceless jewelry Total: 51/185 Register of Deaths Drowning in the Ocean
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Jun 29, 2017 01:58
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"Swimming with the fishes only gets you sunk, Graham." I never picked up on the sapphire/diamond thing when I was playing this as a kid.
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Jun 29, 2017 02:31
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That is a ridiculous amount of priceless jewelry stashed in random completely insecure outdoor locations. I don't suppose by any chance it's all fake?
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Jun 29, 2017 03:15
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I think that's the first time I've ever seen the message about knocking on the church door. Then again, "kill monk" was something I only found out about two years ago. I wonder if there's unique dialogue for trying to kill everyone/thing in Kolyma?
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Jun 29, 2017 04:41
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Surely there was a way to sea that coming, Graham.
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Jun 29, 2017 06:40
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DoubleNegative posted:
 ...Wait. Fuckdamit, that IS what it's for. drat, this game is dumb.
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Jun 29, 2017 07:03
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Cross, stake... King's Quest can't play this straight, not with the reputation for bullshit deaths and Sierra logic.
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Jun 29, 2017 11:10
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Don't worry, there's an example of bullshit logic coming up later that makes the gnome puzzle from the last game feel sensible and even made the writer of the semi-official King's Quest companion guidebook/novelisation throw his hands up and say "screw this"!
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Jun 29, 2017 12:58
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Erpy posted:Don't worry, there's an example of bullshit logic coming up later that makes the gnome puzzle from the last game feel sensible and even made the writer of the semi-official King's Quest companion guidebook/novelisation throw his hands up and say "screw this"! There was a what?
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Jun 29, 2017 12:59
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"By this time, your lungs were aching for air!"
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Jun 29, 2017 13:38
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Dr. Fetus posted:There was a what? Basically this. In the day, it was somewhat semi-official in that the author was in contact with Sierra, but not so much that his overarching narrative was ever incorporated into later games. The last edition covers KQ1 to 7. It's also over 600 pages thick. Erpy fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Jun 29, 2017 |
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Jun 29, 2017 16:18
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Erpy posted:Basically this. In the day, it was somewhat semi-official in that the author was in contact with Sierra, but not so much that his overarching narrative was ever incorporated into later games. The last edition covers KQ1 to 7. It's also over 600 pages thick. Didn't realize Sanderson did KQ fanfic.
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Jun 29, 2017 16:51
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If I had to guess, there's vampires in this game. One vampire at least. (I haven't played the game, so this isn't a spoiler, just my guess.)
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Jun 29, 2017 16:55
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 Hello everyone, and welcome back to King's Quest II. We rejoin Graham outside of the dwarf's house. Now that we've robbed the dwarf, we can finish the second half of the fairy tale from the first update. Well, kinda.  In spite of the various violent ways that Sierra protagonists can kick the bucket, King's Quest is ultimately not a violent series.  So while we're going to somewhat re-enact Little Red Riding Hood, we're not going to be dealing with the Big Bad Wolf. The wolf, in fact, doesn't even have to show up. : Graham knocks on the door loudly. From inside he can hear a muffled voice saying "come in."Unlike with the witch from the first game, there's not even a way to tell if the house is safe or not. : Oh dear! A wolf in grandma's clothing is in the bed! Get out of there, fast! : The wolf pounces on Graham! My, what big TEETH he has! Good enough to eat you with, my dear.It's up to pure, blind chance if the little house is safe or not. I deliberately left and re-entered until the wolf was there in place of grandma. To get the house to be unsafe, it took about five tries. If you're unlucky, you also have plenty of time to leave. As you can see in the gif above, it took the wolf a little better than a second to notice that Graham was there and get out of bed. I also cut out the narration up above, which pops up on top of the screen before anything else does. So basically in order to get this death, you need to go out of your way to trigger it.  Normally, Grandma's house looks like this. : Hello ma'am. : Good day, kind sir. I would like to offer you a cup of tea, but as you can see, I am ailing.: I have some soup, if you like. Maybe it will help you feel better...: Graham feeds the hot chicken soup to ailing Grandma. : I feel much better. In return for your kindness, I have something for you. Look under the bed.: Graham kneels down and peers under the bed. Folded neatly, back against the wall, he finds a large ruby ring and a black cloak. He carefully takes both. : The black cloak would better fit a man taller than you. Red satin lines the inside. : The ring is gold with an enormous red ruby. The initials 'C.D' are engraved inside the gold band.A red and black cape, a gold ring engraved with the initials C.D., a mallet, and a stake? : With a flourish, Graham flings the black cloak around his neck and fastens it. He then slips the beautiful ruby ring on his finger.You can put them on at any time after getting them, and failing to do so will eventually kill us. So just put them on now and forget about them.  We're behind the dwarf's house, still wandering around aimlessly, when... : You have come upon a quick little dwarf! Dwarves have a bad reputation for stealing treasure. This is why you stay on the outside edge of the screen. Thankfully treasure that's stolen in this game isn't gone permanently. Instead, you just have to go back to the dwarf's house to get it back. Although... : The dwarf seems to have left you alone, thanks to your protective spell! Soo... this bridge. Thiiiis bridge. We're on screen G6, just above the mission. Now I want you to watch this next gif carefully.  You may have noticed something at the end there. Watch it again if you didn't get it. Still stumped? We got a single point for crossing the bridge. This is your only indication that this bridge is important. I'll cover exactly why the bridge is important later, but for right now know that we're going to get a single point each time we cross it. It's another one of those patented Bullshit Sierra Scenarios.  Screen F7 has this door to nowhere on a bit of land completely surrounded by mountains and a ravine, with the only way to access it being that bridge I mentioned before. There's a pretty good chance that it's important. So let's take a look. : This is a magical door! If you can open it, the door will lead you to your heart's desire. There is an inscription on the door.: The inscription on the door reads: Whosoever chooses to seek the key for this door will undoubtedly make a splash.That's the only hint you get. So it's time to get back to wandering around. And by wandering I mean I'm going right for our destination.  Clear on the other side of the map, on screen C1, a mermaid has now appeared. : The mermaid has long flowing hair covering most of her upper body. The green scales on her fish tail are sparkling like emeralds as she slowly waves it back and forth. She beckons with her hand.: Hello, miss mermaid. Um... nice day out, isn't it?: The mermaid does not reply. She gives Graham a qizzical look and continues waving her fish tail.: You're very beautiful, and I was wondering if you would like these flowers...: Graham graciously offers the beautiful bouquet of wildflowers to the mermaid. She loves the flowers! She then summons forth a magic seahorse and gestures.: You want me to ride this? Okay...: Quick as a flash, it glides under the water with you on its back!  Well, we made a splash, and there's our key. Let's see what this king has to say for himself. : Glub, glub, glub, glub....... !!!!!!No really, the game says that if you try to talk to him. So let's try to do this nonverbally. If I'm being honest, that was probably his trident we found on the beach, meaning we have the power of Neptune in our hands. So let's have a little fun... >wave trident : Graham waves the crusty trident in front of the immense clam and slowly it opens... revealing a large golden key! Graham smirks and hands the trident to Neptune. With a cold look in his eye, King Neptune takes the rusty trident and points it at Graham, who feels a powerful surge of electricity and then... nothing. He dies at the bottom of the ocean.So obviously that was the wrong thing to do, but it was fun to show off. Now let's rewind and try again. : Graham hands the rusty trident to the mermaid. Oh, no! She dives into the water and disappears with it! Now she's gone.You might think this is a dead man walking scenario, and you're partially right. You can leave the screen and return, and the mermaid is back. From there, things proceed as before. >give flowers to mermaid >ride seahorse Then we arrive back at Neptune's lair.  Where he instantly kills you for no particularly good reason. This is one of those deaths you have to work for, but is pretty funny all the same. So let's restore again and do it right. : The bottom of the sea is teeming with fish and plant life. King Neptune rules this mighty underwater empire.We're back in front of Neptune, he's not pissed off, and Graham has the trident. : Graham holds the trident out to King Neptune. Reverently, the King accepts his lost trident. He gives Graham a bottle, then waves the trident in front of the huge clam, which opens and reveals... a large golden key! Graham takes it. : It is a shiny gold key.Once we have the key, we're done underwater. So just leave the way you came and...  We're back on solid land no worse for the wear. That's enough for now. NEXT TIME: A special cameo or two. List of Points +2 - Chicken soup for Grandma +4 - Gifts from Grandma +3 - 1 Ring for a mortal man doomed to die +1 - Crossing the bridge +1 - Crossing the bridge again +2 - Graham's got a mermaid girlfriend +2 - Seahorse rodeo +4 - Neptune has his trident +5 - Neptune's golden key Total: 75/185 Register of Deaths My, what big teeth you have Tumbling off the cliffs Pissing off Neptune x2 DoubleNegative fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Jul 1, 2017 |
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Jun 30, 2017 22:51
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Kings need to respect kings, don't they?
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Jul 1, 2017 03:07
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I've never played KQ2 and even I know exactly what you mean with the bridge. This game...
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Jul 1, 2017 03:36
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A stake, and a black cloak? All you need now is a whip, a heart of fire, and tears of blood running down your face and you're set.
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Jul 1, 2017 05:52
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