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What is going to be your favorite offseason storyline? This poll is closed. |
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| The Big3 Tourney |
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67 | 22.41% |
| Will Lakers draft Ball |
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40 | 13.38% |
| Where will the Pauls go |
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54 | 18.06% |
| Will LeBron jump ship to the Spurs or ?? |
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41 | 13.71% |
| Will every team in the league just pivot towards tanking |
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97 | 32.44% |
| Total: | 210 votes | ||
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the most important rule about basketball is that despite what the scoreboard says the dunk shot is actually worth the most points.
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Oct 12, 2017 15:47
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scuz posted:T-wolves sub is cool and good, I F5 /r/nba all day every day, /r/nbastreams is the greatest gift to mankind second only to the discovery of fire. the t-wolves sub has an unhealthy obsession with Wiggins' dog
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Oct 12, 2017 15:48
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Now some people are gonna say that hot hand theory is fake, those people don't know about basketball.
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Oct 12, 2017 15:48
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dangerdoom volvo posted:im pretty confident about the basic rules but i have a hard time understanding the flow of the game, the strategy i guess. Positions and roles, things to look for that arent sick dunks, that kind of thing Alright, I finished my work for the day super early and am just waiting for the client to tell me if there are problems so I'm gonna type something out for ya. It may take an hour or two, so check back in later.
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Oct 12, 2017 15:48
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dangerdoom volvo posted:Is there a YouTube or something that explains how the NBA works? I've decided to like basketball but I'm a Euro and I don't know anything. I know Steph Curry is good You need to understand pick and roll offense and defense. Half of contemporary basketball possessions are pick and roll, and most of the league bases their offense around it (notable exceptions are Golden State and San Antonio). Other people have posted videos. It's pretty easy to understand the basics, basically two offensive players and two defensive players. The offensive and defensive players have a limited set of options, and once they make a choice the opponent has to react with a limited set of options. It is my experience that beginners can understand pick and roll basics fairly quickly, and can learn to understand more of the intricacies later. It is only by understanding pick and roll can you can understand just how good Chris Paul and Goran Dragic and Manu Ginobili are, players that aren't flashy or athletic, but are geniuses.
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Oct 12, 2017 16:01
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Rick posted:I always knew Kevman was a hero. I too sometimes see cranberries, almonds, cherries when I watch the Warriors, but when I watch the Bulls, only lemons come up.
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Oct 12, 2017 16:27
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dangerdoom volvo posted:Is there a YouTube or something that explains how the NBA works? I've decided to like basketball but I'm a Euro and I don't know anything. I know Steph Curry is good "By Any Means Basketball" is a really fun channel that I like a lot. edited to make the damned link work 
scuz fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 16:31
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👌🏽 https://mobile.twitter.com/andre/status/917942423262658560
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Oct 12, 2017 16:31
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I usually learn a lot from Nick Sciria's Twitter threads. Spacing Warriors offense Hornets offense Same with when Zach Lowe does deep dives into specific teams and players. Prada's Pictures at SBNation has some interesting stuff even if Prada sounds like Nathan Fielder on novocaine
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Oct 12, 2017 16:32
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Yea Zach Lowe's columns often integrate some really great gifs/clips to demonstrate tactics. If you like them I'd recommend tweeting him and letting him know. The guy loves to chat with fans.
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Oct 12, 2017 16:41
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https://twitter.com/memgrizz/status/918495683887452162
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Oct 12, 2017 16:41
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zoux posted:I can't speak for the individual subreddits, I just go to the main one That's literally the dude with the frog custom title in this thread. I can't remember his name but 90% of his posts are the top post in /r/nba and the other 10% are the top comments for those posts
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Oct 12, 2017 16:51
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Overall Strategy You want to score more points than your opponent. Duh. This is generally done by trying to get the most points-per-possession (ppp) on your offensive trips (i.e. a possession) and limit your opponent to the fewest ppp on their offensive trips. A possession starts when a team gains control of the ball and ends when they score, lose control of the ball (via turnover or violation), or the opposing team secures the rebound off a missed shot attempt. The best stats to look at this kind of efficiency at a team level is Defensive Rating (DRtg) and Offensive Rating (ORtg). You can find those and other stats on resources like Basketball Reference and the NBA's stat site. The Net Rating (NRtg) is the difference between ORtg and Drtg. The higher this number the better the team. Now that you know that ppp or ORtg/DRtg can be used to measure how good a team is at offense/defense, let's apply that to how it dictates team strategy. There are many types of ways to score. Dunks, layups, 3 pointers, free throws, paint shot (a shot coming from that colored rectangle between the free throw line and the basket), and mid-range (everything between the paint and the 3 point line) to name a few. Of these, the most efficient (i.e. highest ppp), on average, are dunks, free throws, layups, and 3 pointers, in that order (dokmo or someone can correct me). Since those are usually the most efficient shots, defenses work on denying the offense those shots and try to force offenses into the most inefficient shot: the mid-range. There are many different defensive schemes and such to try to stop this but they usually involve preventing players from being able to get into the paint while dribbling the ball (driving). The way a defender angles himself between the ball-handler and the basket/paint can help dictate which way the ball-handler drives. If he gets beat, a help defender will leave his man to cover the mistake. Like dokmo mentioned, look up how Pick and Roll works because it can involve a lot of the concepts used here. This appears to be a good explanation. In general, an offense is looking to get an uncontested shot at the rim or from the 3 point line. This is usually done with a pick and roll, as mentioned by other posters, but there are other strategies which may include concepts derived from the triangle offense, lots of off-ball screens, and more. When time is running low (shot clock or game clock), teams usually resort to running an isolation play. This play has a low ppp but also has a low turnover rate and is easy to make sure a shot goes up so it is ran to make sure a scoring opportunity is created for the offensive team and the defending team doesn't get enough time to create their own, no matter how the play ends. Some players use iso plays outside of this situation and that is bad and they should feel bad. Side Notes:
Positions/Roles This has been a hot-topic the last several years. Definitions and roles have changed as offensives have changed (integrated way, way, way more 3 point shot attempts). Traditionally, positions are labeled as such:
That is how positions/roles have generally been for much of the NBA's history. It has changed a bit with what is being called "position-less basketball", which is a bit of a cheap way of saying everyone needs to be able to dribble, pass, and shoot at an effective level while also being able to guard players a bit smaller and a bit larger than themselves. There are lots of alternative terms used now like big, wing, swing, and more. The position someone is listed at does not really tell you much about their offensive role these days. You can look at their listed position to see who they typically guard, though. Nikola Jokic is listed as a center because that is who he guards on defense but his team plays him like a point guard on offense. Being able to guard people a bit bigger and a bit smaller than you is key to playing defense at the highest level. If a team fields a lineup full of players that can do that, it means they can "switch" who each player guards during a possession and not give up a matchup advantage. The Golden State Warriors are the current masters of this. Non-Obvious Things to Look For Don't ball-watch. Seriously. I usually have the paint as the center of my frame of reference when watching a game. It lets me see all the off-ball motions and defensive help happen before it actually happens. If you learn to watch what's going on away from the ball and are familiar enough with a team, you can tell with great confidence what is about to happen a second or two before it actually happens and predict the result with great accuracy. When I attend games, I'll stand up and start pumping my fist for a made shot before the ball leaves the passer's hands. It takes a lot of practice. When I'm tired and watching late games, I fall back into ball-watching. Which isn't bad, mind you. It's where you see really cool one-on-one moves without needing replay. Video game, but illustrates why off-ball movement is so good. Watching off-ball is also where you get to see the dirtiest poo poo happen. Elbows, knees, grabs, shoves, etc. It's where you learn why some people laugh when others call basketball a non-contact sport. Kibner fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 16:52
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https://twitter.com/Twolves_PR/status/918130448542334976 get hosed Raptors, I guess?
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Oct 12, 2017 16:53
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dangerdoom volvo posted:im pretty confident about the basic rules but i have a hard time understanding the flow of the game, the strategy i guess. Positions and roles, things to look for that arent sick dunks, that kind of thing It is great that you are trying to learn! But it is also important to know that looking for sick dunks is a perfectly acceptable and wholly enjoyable way to consume the sport of basketball! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIUHj8gSkoM
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Oct 12, 2017 16:54
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Doltos posted:That's literally the dude with the frog custom title in this thread. I can't remember his name but 90% of his posts are the top post in /r/nba and the other 10% are the top comments for those posts I don't know who you're talking about but there are like multiple people over the last few years who were doing that, although most have kind of faded away.
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Oct 12, 2017 16:58
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FIRST TEAM ALL DEFENSE FOREVER
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Oct 12, 2017 17:01
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I post a lot of stuff from r/nba too (like the thing about Klay shooting off of screens more than most nba teams, which is still hilarious to me) but I also have my own terrible opinions comprise most of my posting
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Oct 12, 2017 17:05
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Doltos posted:That's literally the dude with the frog custom title in this thread. I can't remember his name but 90% of his posts are the top post in /r/nba and the other 10% are the top comments for those posts Rick posted:I don't know who you're talking about but there are like multiple people over the last few years who were doing that, although most have kind of faded away. Lmao that upsets me more than it should. Have some shame
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Oct 12, 2017 17:06
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https://twitter.com/WillGuillory/status/918507586961444865
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Oct 12, 2017 17:07
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Doltos posted:That's literally the dude with the frog custom title in this thread. I can't remember his name but 90% of his posts are the top post in /r/nba and the other 10% are the top comments for those posts Yeah, the video reposting isn't a big deal, it was copying top comment reddit puns over and over, that was corny like my yellow teeth, lamborghini, and diamonds
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Oct 12, 2017 17:18
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dangerdoom volvo posted:im pretty confident about the basic rules but i have a hard time understanding the flow of the game, the strategy i guess. Positions and roles, things to look for that arent sick dunks, that kind of thing try watching things other than the ball. see who else is moving (and who isn't, and why they might want to standing where they are) the screens and picks and cuts that comprise an NBA offense oh it looks like kibner covered that and a bunch of other things plays to learn: pick and roll give and go shake and bake grip and grin Brolander fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 17:20
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/r/NBA is real good for news, highlights and a few effort posts on opinions and data-driven stuff, but it's real bad for discussion and short-form opinion. The structure that popular stuff gets seen more means you get a real distilled view of the league, and thats not a good thing. This is pretty good, but you're way too focused on shot selection by location. An open midrange shot is a better shot than a contested 3, and most offenses aren't looking for 1 type of shot, they are running plays that have lots of scoring opportunities all over the floor, the players have to make the decision when to take the shot. San Antonio is a really good team and they shoot a ton of mid-range shots, and are slightly below the mean on 3 pointers (they are good at hitting them, but they don't take a lot). They can do this because of how their team is constructed and their scheme, it isn't an inferior offense at all. You typically ISO or Post-up not because it has a low turnover rate, but because you know you'll get an "okayish" opportunity within a few seconds. Most half-court basketball plays are a series of looks, most of them bad, that you pass/move out of until you find a good one. Transition and fast break is also really important. Transition shots usually score at a much higher rate, but you only get 1 shot per possession. Some teams focus on generating these, many aren't able to.
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Oct 12, 2017 17:22
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ESPN's NBA top highlights countdowns are almost exactly the reddit videos by now
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Oct 12, 2017 17:28
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IcePhoenix posted:https://twitter.com/Twolves_PR/status/918130448542334976 Technically further north than Toronto so... I'll allow it.
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Oct 12, 2017 17:32
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Lockback posted:This is pretty good, but you're way too focused on shot selection by location. An open midrange shot is a better shot than a contested 3, and most offenses aren't looking for 1 type of shot, they are running plays that have lots of scoring opportunities all over the floor, the players have to make the decision when to take the shot. San Antonio is a really good team and they shoot a ton of mid-range shots, and are slightly below the mean on 3 pointers (they are good at hitting them, but they don't take a lot). They can do this because of how their team is constructed and their scheme, it isn't an inferior offense at all. I encourage more critiques or additions to my original post like this. Maybe we can get someone to kind of gather it all together into a single "so, you just started watching basketball and want to learn more about it?" kind of post that we can put in the OP of the N/V thread.
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Oct 12, 2017 17:52
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other than simple things like the pick and roll/pop my advice is to just watch games. i've watched a ton of games and videos and even play in a league and i have no idea what things like "horns" or other offensive playsets are. the best advice is just watch. you'll start to understand the flow of the game and pick up on how things are working without knowing exactly what each team is doing. and that's fine, too. you don't need to be able to read each offensive play to enjoy watching basketball, or even be considered relatively knowledgeable about the sport. positions: center: biggest guy you got on the court. has many jobs including: setting screens- he's big and heavy and therefore when he comes up and stands next to a guy that guy will have a hard time running through him. this allows another offensive guy to run around the big man while his defender gets "picked off" or "screened" allowing for the offensive player to break free rebounding, both offense and defense- the big guy can get the ball more easily because he's tall and usually hanging around the basket. on offense this allows him to put the ball immediately back into the hoop or pass it back out to reset the offense. on defense this can open up an "outlet pass" where the big heaves the ball to someone "leaking out" and starting a fast break protecting the paint/rim protection- people will be less inclined to go for layups/dunks because a giant 7ft monster is hanging out around the hoop just waiting to block them there are some variations and specialties with bigs too. increasingly, they're being asked to step out to the 3pt line on offense and shoot 3s at a consistent clip. this "spreads the floor"because now the other team's center has to leave the painted area to come out and guard a center at the 3pt line. this allows other players to more easily "drive the lane" and get layups because the 7ft monster is out on the 3pt line instead of protecting the rim. another type of specialty is passing big men. catching the ball in the "post" (under the basket, on either side) or the "elbow" (where the painted area makes a 90 degree turn into the free throw line) allows for different looks, and a big man who can pass well from those areas can find open players for easier points. centers are tall and can pass over people and see the court better. plus they tend to draw a lot of attention so they get doubled teamed as defenses "sag in" or "collapse" to prevent the giant dude from just dunking the ball. as the defense "collapses" around the big, other people are left open so a good big can pass out of that and get the ball to an open "cutter" or shooter. huge people are typically not as fast as smaller people. this has been exploited by modern offenses using the pick and roll. the offensive team's center comes out to set a pick for a quicker player (typically a guard, but it can also be a small forward). this drags the defensive center out of the painted area. then the offensive ball handler uses the center to pick off his man. the defender has a few options. he can try to go "over the screen," try to stay above the pick setter and close to the ball handler, but this leaves them vulnerable to just being picked off. they can try and go "under the screen," try to run behind the pick setter and quickly get back to their man. modern players are so deadly from 3 and so quick to shoot that this leaves the ball handler open long enough to fire an open 3 which is never good. the last option is to "switch" with the other defending center. this means the defending center is now no longer guarding the offensive center setting the pick and is now responsible for guarding the ball handler. but this is a mismatch because the ball handler is much faster than the defending center and can easily "beat" them by just speeding past them or faking a drive, getting the big to drop back and then shooting an open shot. i literally wrote this whole paragraph just to say that the position of center is changing, and no longer is "bigger always better." centers today are expected to be more athletic so they can switch more easily and guard faster players. for this, they are sacrificing size and physical dominance. its a position in flux with many different types and varieties in the league right now. basketball used to be all about centers, but it hasn't really been since probably shaq. power forward: this is the position i'm honestly least knowledgeable about. so i'll write what i think they do and someone can correct me. a power forward is a big player who is also athletic and can score in more places than just under the basket or at the elbow like a center. they can also be used for the pick and roll since they're usually big, and they make excellent "rollers" because they are athletic and skilled enough to catch a pass on the "roll" and drive toward the basket. the "roll" from pick and roll is after the big guy sets the screen, they "roll" toward the basket. that is, they seal off the person they've screened and then make a cut toward the basket. this should leave them open for the ball handler to pass them the ball and generate an open drive. alternatively they can run a "pick and pop" where instead of driving the screener flares out after setting a pick generating an open look from 10-20 ft. since the ball handler can drive the lane and collapse the defense, the flaring screener should be open. since they're just catching and shooting they call it a "pop." on defense, because of their size, they can also function as a secondary rim protector. i think the main difference between a center and a power forward is that power forwards sacrifice some size for better ball handling, more athleticism, better shooting, and a generally higher skill set. this allows for different looks than a center might get, and since this is still basketball and size does matter, they still have the advantage of being big. the nba has already gone through its "peak" power forward era though, culminating in the 2000s with highly athletic, mobile power forwards who could handle the ball well, score well, and play defense well. not that its an obsolete position, but its importance has change significantly in the modern era. nowadays the power forward position is in flux because of the "stretch 4" (center is the 5, pf is the 4, sf is the 3, sg is the 2, pg is the 1). a stretch 4 is someone with the size of a power forward who can shoot 3s. this pulls big, excellent defending power forwards out of the painted area to guard a tall guy who can shoot. you can't guard him with a little guy because he can just shoot over them, so all these great paint protectors are wasting away on the 3pt line, out of the action because a 6'10 guy can shoot 3s. they call it "stretch" because the offensive player is "stretching" the defense by pulling his man out of the painted area. the ideal power forward, the "unicorn" as people refer to it, is a big that can shoot 3s, drive the lane, and play excellent defense. but as you might have noticed, anyone who can do all those things well is already a loving awesome basketball player and its very hard to master all of those toolsets since they're each so different. small forward: this is your jack of all trades player. mr do-it-all. they can shoot 3s, they can drive the lane, they can score in isolation, and ideally they play good defense. the top 3 players in the nba play this position. its really just a position that can either do guard stuff or forward stuff. increasingly we're seeing this position playing as a "point-forward" where they are also responsible for bringing the ball up and doing some point guard duties as well. but there is only so much one man can do, so its still being experimented on. i can't speak much to the formal expectations of this position because i never played organized ball, but i really just think its a dude who can do pretty much anything. they can be the ball handler in the pick and roll or the screener. they typically hang out around the 3pt line to spread the offense, but are just as likely to cut toward the hoop or set a screen. shooting guard: typically a catch and shoot type of player. they can shoot well from distance (3s). many of them are good drivers too and can drive a lane with the best of them. lots of them run around the court trying to lose their man in an off-ball screen and get an open look. they're scorers. they can also be elite defenders. typically a bit bigger than point guards, they are still agile enough to guard fast perimeter players. guards are called guards because they should be furthest from the hoop and are able to run back on defense to defend against fast breaks or anything else. that's why they're called guards. they're guarding your teams hoop while playing offense…i think. point guard: this guy typically is the guy bringing the ball up the court, calling plays, and initiating the offense. they're super fast and can handle the ball (dribble) the best. they're also great passers. this is because their job is to get the offense going. they need to get the ball into the hands of whoever needs it for the play to start. or they need to be able to drive the paint and collapse the defense, and then be able to pass the ball out to open players. this is what generates open looks. a fast, in control dude can burn his man and get into the paint. the defense collapses because they're supposed to, they don't want to give up an open lay up, then the ball handler passes the ball to an open player, a cutter, or a big who's man rotated to stop the ball handler. or the point guard can try and score. its their ability to draw double teams and collapse defenses and then make smart passes out of those situations that makes them valuable. in the modern era point guards have gotten super-charged. nowadays they have the shooting ability of shootings guards in addition to their typically excellent ball handling, passing, and play making skills. they can shoot 3s which means defenders have to play them out closer to the line which increases the risk of getting beat on a drive and having the defense have to collapse to prevent an open layup which then generates passes to open players. they are often the ball handlers in pick and rolls and have been totally wrecking havoc all over the league to great effect. its pretty impressive to see, actually. good point guards have a wide range of skill sets. this has been long enough and probably full of inaccuracies or whatever. but hopefully it was helpful. if i got anything wrong or am missing important things, let me know because i too am still learning about this awesome game and the more i can understand the better. RaySmuckles fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 17:53
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Kibner posted:I encourage more critiques or additions to my original post like this. Maybe we can get someone to kind of gather it all together into a single "so, you just started watching basketball and want to learn more about it?" kind of post that we can put in the OP of the N/V thread.
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Oct 12, 2017 17:55
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scuz posted:Could we include what N/V and G/V mean? N/V means news and views G/V is a joke about the nba renaming the D league to the G league the G meaning Gatorade
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Oct 12, 2017 17:59
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Whoever makes the next season thread should include those primers in the OP for any new guys we get during the seasons, they're really good
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Oct 12, 2017 18:02
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N/V: News and Views G/V: Its a joke; the NBA has a minor league that for many years was called the D-League (developmental league), but last year Gatorade bought the loving naming rights to the league, and it was renamed the G-League.
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Oct 12, 2017 18:04
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Lockback posted:This is pretty good, but you're way too focused on shot selection by location. An open midrange shot is a better shot than a contested 3, and most offenses aren't looking for 1 type of shot, they are running plays that have lots of scoring opportunities all over the floor, the players have to make the decision when to take the shot. San Antonio is a really good team and they shoot a ton of mid-range shots, and are slightly below the mean on 3 pointers (they are good at hitting them, but they don't take a lot). They can do this because of how their team is constructed and their scheme, it isn't an inferior offense at all. Yeah, I was focused on shot selection because I was trying to keep things relatively concise. Pointing out what the generally accepted most valuable shot types are was my way of doing that. In regards to the isolation play, yeah, it is about reliably getting a shot up with that little remaining time. I should have explained that a bit more but the turnover was the first thing that came to mind when writing that up. I probably should have touched on transition but, again, I was trying to make sure the post wouldn't become too long. e: i did edit my op with some of your suggestions, though Kibner fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Oct 12, 2017 |
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Oct 12, 2017 18:07
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Kibner posted:Yeah, I was focused on shot selection because I was trying to keep things relatively concise. Pointing out what the generally accepted most valuable shot types are was my way of doing that. Too late, you've outed yourself, Daryl
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Oct 12, 2017 18:11
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https://twitter.com/bball_ref/status/918292606303592449
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Oct 12, 2017 18:15
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zoux posted:Too late, you've outed yourself, Daryl welp
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Oct 12, 2017 18:17
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G/V actually stands for Goos and Views
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Oct 12, 2017 18:22
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Cool Buff Man posted:G/V actually stands for Goos and Views
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Oct 12, 2017 18:23
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Real tears from your pal Nick
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Oct 12, 2017 18:32
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Cool Buff Man posted:G/V actually stands for Goos and Views
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Oct 12, 2017 18:33
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| # ? May 21, 2024 10:22 |
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It is completely possible to enjoy basketball for the sick dunks and for when people do a dribble that makes someone fall over. Stats exist for whatever you want, but do not feel obligated to engage with them ever, at all, if you don’t want to. Watch a bunch of games, if any players or jerseys or dunks stick out to you, that can be your team, then just hope they win and do cool stuff. That’s all you need to be a basketball fan. E: and you’re going to need to get really mad at referees too
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Oct 12, 2017 18:43
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