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A 50S RAYGUN
Aug 22, 2011

JT Jag posted:

I don't know what you guys are saying with all this rip warrior stuff, Warrior still owns

Wrath stacks to 10 instead of 5 like before, and yeah we're losing bloodbath but that just means it's a bit tougher to tank an entire dungeon full of adds, we'll adjust

warrior is fine, there's just not any huge need or want to take one. I would not be surprised at all if pld/pld becomes the new tank comp, LB penalty be damned.

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JT Jag
Aug 30, 2009

#1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

A 50S RAYGUN posted:

I would not be surprised at all if pld/pld becomes the new tank comp, LB penalty be damned.
Nah

If 2 of the same thing becomes the raid meta, the other jobs of the same type get a buff, see: AST after Heavensward's release, and how it was useless and now is real good

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Klewer posted:

rip my class. other class got buffed but my class got nothing. loving SE doesn't know how to balance their own game. my class players are hosed yet again. Great JOb!!!

On the other hand, Hasty Touch II

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

A 50S RAYGUN posted:

warrior is fine, there's just not any huge need or want to take one. I would not be surprised at all if pld/pld becomes the new tank comp, LB penalty be damned.

Foe Req was changed to be a generic 3% damage up so there's no reason to take 2 PLD's over an off WAR/DRK.

In fact, the broadest 'decrease mob resistance' stuff was changed to that. Only Slashing, Piercing and Blunt remain (and even DRG's pierce was reduced to 5%)

Thumbtacks
Apr 3, 2013
Samurai's got more complexity than I was expecting, actually, and it might be kinda tricky to keep up Sen but not clip your dots/buffs, especially on AoE pulls.

Xeras
Oct 11, 2004

Only a few find the way, some don't recognize it when they do - some... don't ever want to.
I know it's about 5 hours early but I was kinda hoping the servers would be up early. :f5:

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
I am real excited for mooch II, if I'm understanding what it does right

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!

Xeras posted:

I know it's about 5 hours early but I was kinda hoping the servers would be up early. :f5:

Well, it won't be

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Thumbtacks posted:

Samurai's got more complexity than I was expecting, actually, and it might be kinda tricky to keep up Sen but not clip your dots/buffs, especially on AoE pulls.

think of it this way: the faster you completely destroy a single target the less competitive your teammates' AOE becomes

Lemon King
Oct 4, 2009

im nt posting wif a mark on my head

Verranicus posted:

Trip report from Stormblood: Roegadyn women still ugliest race/sex combo

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


I just noticed BRD only gets Bloodletter resets under Mage's Ballad now and now I'm sad :(

SpaceDrake
Dec 22, 2006

I can't avoid filling a game with awful memes, even if I want to. It's in my bones...!

HOOLY BOOLY posted:

So thanks to the OP for convincing me that i need to go buy Stormblood tommorow even though i'm nowhere near done with Heavensward yet, didn't realize you just to be level 50 and own Stormblood to get the classes as opposed to Heavensward where you needed to actually get to Ishgard before you could even look at them.

You can buy the game digitally from Square Enix's store right now if you feel inclined.

Xeras posted:

I know it's about 5 hours early but I was kinda hoping the servers would be up early. :f5:

I really doubt they will be up a moment before posted time, since they want to be ready for the huge gerbil rush of nerds hitting the server.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Thumbtacks posted:

Samurai's got more complexity than I was expecting, actually, and it might be kinda tricky to keep up Sen but not clip your dots/buffs, especially on AoE pulls.

On the other hand you only need to keep the Damage and Reduced Delay buff up before going straight into the AoE Iaijutsu and then you've got an AoE combo with two finishers which each grant sen.

Throw in some Hissatsu and you can probably get by without the Damage buff (especially when you take into account Guren)

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


I sorta feel like photoshoppingMSPainting the Fracture icon onto the eyes of a pic of Ciaphas Cain and getting that as an avatar

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013
Usually you would use Hagakure before spending your sen on an iaijutsu. It's the same for AoE, but more so, since Tenka Goten has diminishing returns, and the impact of Guren (if it's up) is relatively higher.

Thumbtacks
Apr 3, 2013

EponymousMrYar posted:

On the other hand you only need to keep the Damage and Reduced Delay buff up before going straight into the AoE Iaijutsu and then you've got an AoE combo with two finishers which each grant sen.

Throw in some Hissatsu and you can probably get by without the Damage buff (especially when you take into account Guren)

Boy I'm really gonna need to learn these words eventually.

On single target fights, and assuming Kenki spenders are off the GCD (i think they all are?) I'm assuming the buffs are exactly long enough that you can build 3 sen, setsugekka, then build three sen again the same way you did the first time

Verranicus
Aug 18, 2009

by VideoGames

Yes, better looking than roegadames

Panic Attack
Oct 29, 2012

Float like a bulldozer
Trying to catch a butterfly
Went through the job guides, refreshed myself on all the changes. With regards to classes I play, at worst I'm 'I don't hate this', at best I'm about to nut

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

As a WHM Main I'm mostly annoyed that its new mechanics are just dumb and boring and I will literally have no difference between playing White Mage at 70 than I did at 60.

Well, other than weaving Fluid Aura into Aero casts. I liked doing that. :smith:

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Thumbtacks posted:

Boy I'm really gonna need to learn these words eventually.

On single target fights, and assuming Kenki spenders are off the GCD (i think they all are?) I'm assuming the buffs are exactly long enough that you can build 3 sen, setsugekka, then build three sen again the same way you did the first time

Nah, like VHGS said it's better for you to convert your first 3 sen to Kenki via Hagakure and spend that on Hissatsus weaved among building more sen for Higanbana and Midare.

I kinda have a hard time wrapping my head around waiting for optimal Kenki for doing AoE but in taking a look at BLM I realize that pretty much everyone's going to want to build up for big AoE bursts what with all of the sustain nerfs (even MNK's AoE is burst what with Elixir Field and Howling Blow.)

Thumbtacks
Apr 3, 2013

EponymousMrYar posted:

Nah, like VHGS said it's better for you to convert your first 3 sen to Kenki via Hagakure and spend that on Hissatsus weaved among building more sen for Higanbana and Midare.

I kinda have a hard time wrapping my head around waiting for optimal Kenki for doing AoE but in taking a look at BLM I realize that pretty much everyone's going to want to build up for big AoE bursts what with all of the sustain nerfs (even MNK's AoE is burst what with Elixir Field and Howling Blow.)

Even single target?

VHGS
Jul 24, 2013
Yeah. The main reason is that Iaijutsu are on the GCD, so you have to subtract the average damage of your other weaponskills when comparing with oGCDs.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Dr Pepper posted:

As a WHM Main I'm mostly annoyed that its new mechanics are just dumb and boring and I will literally have no difference between playing White Mage at 70 than I did at 60.

Well, other than weaving Fluid Aura into Aero casts. I liked doing that. :smith:

This is about as bad as it gets for classes in SB, which is not so bad? Ninja is mostly the same but with a couple new toys and a little simplification.

I think Astrologians were complaining? I don't play AST so I didn't really pay much mind to it.

But overall seems like a pretty good place, at worst your class is the same, at best its got some significant depth added.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Thumbtacks posted:

Even single target?

3 Sen converted to Kenki is 60 Kenki, and Hissatsu: Guren is 50 Kenki for 800 potency on single target.

Midare is 720 (unbuffed.)

Also your main single target Kenki spender (Hissatsu: Shinten) is 300 potency for 25 kenki.

Also also:

VHGS posted:

Yeah. The main reason is that Iaijutsu are on the GCD, so you have to subtract the average damage of your other weaponskills when comparing with oGCDs.

EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Jun 16, 2017

Kalenn Istarion
Nov 2, 2012

Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av

JT Jag posted:

I'm looking forward to just being able to toss Flare for free thanks to Umbral Hearts

I'm also Pretty Pumped for Warrior. Twice as much Wrath as before? Sounds good!!!

They needed it p bad for big pulls tho

a kitten posted:

We went a whole expansion and i never saw one person named Heaven Sward.
Disappointing.

e:

Foul isn't a very exciting name for my new big BLM spell.

I would have liked if they called it Pain or Break or perhaps Meteor or something

Tsurupettan posted:

okay literally when i posted it, it didn't work. and it does now. it also didn't work for other people i asked. so this is one of those times when i complain and it instantly backfires.

i can tell you that for the 30+ minutes prior, the shortened links went to a non-existent page.

Anything material change from prelim vs final patch notes?

OWLS! posted:

Oh wait I'm dumb, it's still there. Just no more bloodbath.

Bloodbath, no!

Yeah bloodbath was great for big pulls, kinda sucks

Thumbtacks
Apr 3, 2013

EponymousMrYar posted:

3 Sen converted to Kenki is 60 Kenki, and Hissatsu: Guren is 50 Kenki for 800 potency on single target.

Midare is 720 (unbuffed.)

Also your main single target Kenki spender (Hissatsu: Shinten) is 300 potency for 25 kenki.

Wouldn't you spend your first 3 Sen on a Kaiten buffed Midare? You should have enough Kenki to Kaiten it. That's 1080 potency. Kaiten has a 5s CD, too

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Zaphod42 posted:

I think Astrologians were complaining? I don't play AST so I didn't really pay much mind to it.

AST's are wisely not complaining since they're now the best healers in the game.

Hommando
Mar 2, 2012

Zaphod42 posted:

But overall seems like a pretty good place, at worst your class is the same, at best its got some significant depth added.

This does not describe SB WHM at all. Lost stoneskin, fluid aura does no damage, lilies are mostly useless, lost divine seal, lost protect, lost shroud, cleric stance is useless, lost esuna, cure II doesn't proc a cheaper cure III.

At least we kept repose :shrug:

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!
if someone sees an astrologean asking for buffs make sure to annihilate them

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Thumbtacks posted:

Wouldn't you spend your first 3 Sen on a Kaiten buffed Midare? You should have enough Kenki to Kaiten it. That's 1080 potency. Kaiten has a 5s CD, too

Or you could do that with your next 3 Sen AND Guren AND Shinten. Hissatsu are abilities after all :v:

Also gaining your second 3 sen would take 3 GCD's thanks to Meikyo and let you Shinten a second time. (IE: Hagakure -> Shinten, Meikyo, 3 Sen, Kaiten, Midare, Guren, Shinten.)

EponymousMrYar fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Jun 16, 2017

Thumbtacks
Apr 3, 2013
????

Increases potency of next weaponskill by 50%.


unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say, you can't Kaiten buff guren or shinten

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Dr Pepper posted:

AST's are wisely not complaining since they're now the best healers in the game.

Haha, must have mixed something up when I was skimming. I feel like *somebody* was complaining... scholar? I always mix up AST and SCH. They're non-WHM healers... same thing!

Astroniomix
Apr 24, 2015



Zaphod42 posted:

Haha, must have mixed something up when I was skimming. I feel like *somebody* was complaining... scholar? I always mix up AST and SCH. They're non-WHM healers... same thing!

Literally the only complaint I've seen from AST players was one person wanting to know if the lord/lady cards are random or if burning certain cards generates one or the other.

Choyi
Aug 18, 2012

Zaphod42 posted:

Haha, must have mixed something up when I was skimming. I feel like *somebody* was complaining... scholar? I always mix up AST and SCH. They're non-WHM healers... same thing!

Except that SCH is trash now.

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

Thumbtacks posted:

unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say, you can't Kaiten buff guren or shinten

If you're going to burst you want to burst as big as you can in as short a time as possible. Holding off using Kaiten on your first 3 Sen accomplishes that better than using it because you need to build up Kenki to maximize your oGCD's for such burst.

Thumbtacks
Apr 3, 2013
That makes sense, thanks

LegionAreI
Nov 14, 2006
Lurk
As we wait for about 2 more hours, here's to the experience many of us lived with at launch and assuredly won't get with Stormblood!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU44zSlJQag

SpaceDrake
Dec 22, 2006

I can't avoid filling a game with awful memes, even if I want to. It's in my bones...!

Choyi posted:

Except that SCH is trash now.

SCH is still a very good healer and still has the same amount of single target DPS they always did. It's their AoE that's been a bit over-nerfed, and they share that problem with SMN.

Choyi
Aug 18, 2012
Even single target of SCH was nerfed, remember that they lost a whole 40 potency dot and only gained 20 potency on ruin/broil to compensate. There is never a reason to bring a SCH over WHM or AST for anything now, its the 3.x PLD of the healers.

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Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


LegionAreI posted:

As we wait for about 2 more hours, here's to the experience many of us lived with at launch and assuredly won't get with Stormblood!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU44zSlJQag

ARR launch sucked dongs but HW was smooth enough (queue length aside) so I'm pretty hopeful :shobon:

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