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Looks like the imperial armor ebooks are up Kinda regretting ordering a physical copy since it'll take a month for FW to get it to me
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Jun 16, 2017 18:09
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Safety Factor posted:May I present to you, based on the last few waning days of the old thread, an unbeatable list: Gaunts are pretty good. I think tyranids need the killing power of Genestealers to work though.
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Jun 16, 2017 18:13
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I have no problem with gaunts, I think Genestealers are over powered but also necessary for tyranids to work currently, and I think anti infantry guns aren't good enough. I don't know why you're trying to turn this into some kind of meme.
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Jun 16, 2017 18:27
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SteelMentor posted:But think of all the rousing discussions of cupolas and Mathhammer we're missing! I talked about cupolas one time two months ago, and have done pretty much no math hammer in a month while others are literally posting charts that break down weapon point efficiency vs multiple targets. Kindly go gently caress yourself.
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Jun 16, 2017 18:37
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 Working on these guys. Other than some places that need cleaning up how should I improve them before I put on the decals?
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Jun 16, 2017 19:25
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TheChirurgeon posted:There had to be one where people who actually play the game get together and talk about playing it I two brush blended some P3 coal black over the black segments, and did a little bit of edgework with a grey. I also used p3 quicksilver to highlight the metals.
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Jun 16, 2017 19:53
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TheChirurgeon posted:hm. The biggest thing is that they come across a little flat. Maybe some washes next, carroburg crimson for the red cloth, agrax eartshade for the bronze bits, and nuln oil for the steel bits on the armor Yeah I've done nuln oil on the metals, I could do more. I'll have to see about getting that crimson
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Jun 16, 2017 20:36
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Was teaching my friend to play, a 50 pl game I had a terminator chaplain, terminators, tac squad, devastator squad, razorback, vindicator He had a jump pack captain, cataphractii, 10 vanguard with jump packs, scouts, predator. Man I need to bring these scouts more. Top of 1 the 5 scouts killed 4 devastators and the last one ran away. Should've deployed them in the razorback. His vanguard were actually pretty good in numbers, he gave them all storm shields and power swords and tanked vindicator fire with their shields. Definitely need to give them another chance with shields. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jun 16, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 23:12
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panascope posted:Whenever I paint bronze I do a double wash of Agrax Earthshade to make it really rich. Try this along with an edge highlight of Runefang Steel to give the metal a bit more depth. Do that on the leather straps as well before building highlights back up with whatever reds you have to give them more depth as well. Yeah, thanks for the advice. I'll definitely put some agrax on there. I have nuln oil on all the silver parts, but was worried about it looking too dirty and killing my highlights. I'll do more. By the way, do you have a guide for weathering? It's beyond my current skillset. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Jun 17, 2017 |
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Jun 16, 2017 23:16
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By the way, did I resolve the sniper shots correctly? So mortal wounds spill over. The way I did it was I did all the armor saves, and then applied the mortal wounds to the unit (So in the case of the devastators, it was 2 mortal wounds and 4 armor saves). Is that correct, or is it intended for the armor save and mortal wound you get from rolling a 6 be applied to the same model? Maybe it's supposed to be vaporizing one dude's head and hitting the guy behind him.
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Jun 17, 2017 00:10
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Yeast posted:Hellhound' flame based inferno cannon doesn't auto hit like every other flame weapon in the game. I'm looking at the leaked index and both the inferno and chem cannon automatically hit, is it different elsewhere?
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Jun 17, 2017 00:35
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Yeah my top desires are vaylund cal, Lias, sicaran, sicaran venator, and relic predator. Hopefully someone will upload it somewhere soon. Don't want to wait for my physical copy to arrive.
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Jun 17, 2017 00:44
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SteelMentor posted:Holy poo poo. So someone said that macro weapons do double damage to the TITANIC keyword, so it might not be so bad. I hope volcano cannons get an errata to do that though. I really want a shadowsword.
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Jun 17, 2017 00:50
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Pendent posted:Belicosa Volcanno Cannon 180" Macro D6 S30 AP-6 D12. Any wound roll of 6 causes an additional d6 moral wounds. Wow that's way stronger than the shadowsword volcano cannon.
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Jun 17, 2017 00:57
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Pendent posted:The Sicaran's main gun is 48" Assault 8 S7 AP-1 D2. No penalty for shooting targets with Fly and ever wound roll of 6 increases the AP to -3. Not all that exciting, to be completely honest. It can also carry 3 heavy bolters, but yeah. Unless it's cheap as hell I can't see using that instead of a Crusader. Oh well, my Sicaran is a venator anyway. Edit: I guess leaks are files now so I won't post them directly actually poo poo this looks tasty. S12 Ap-4 D6 on the neutron laser. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Jun 17, 2017 |
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Jun 17, 2017 01:07
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So a sicaran is 240 points before sponsons. That's not great compared to a crusader. Crusader is way tougher and carries troops for 40 more points.
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Jun 17, 2017 01:46
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lmao at the grav bombard on the leviathan Heavy d3, S9 AP-5 2 damage, 5 damage vs monsters vehicles and titans, +d3 shots for every 5 models in the target unit. Imagine unloading on some poxwalkers or something with that poo poo. 5d3 shots for a 20 model unit.
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Jun 17, 2017 02:25
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So, can you guys help me build a Tau list for my friend? He was already leaning that playstyle before, but after us doing some demo games where he had a stationary fire base backed up by deep striking fast attackers, he's definitely wanting to go with a Tau build like that. So I'm guessing crisis suits for the deep striking fast attack stuff, but what should he use for the fire base? He looks interested in stealth suits and ghost keels, too. Was going to have him start out with 1-2 start collecting boxes and a pathfinder+devilfish box.
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Jun 17, 2017 03:12
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So it looks like Lias lets you deep strike 3 Infantry units + him that aren't primaris, centurion, and terminator. And gives rerolls to hit, and +1 to all movements to nearby models including charges and advances. Nice. He's also got a 2+ save and gets 2 armor from cover, so dude gets a 3+ save against plasma and poo poo.
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Jun 17, 2017 05:37
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Is it intended that the grenade harness is AP1 instead of AP-1 I wonder? Weird to pay 8 points for an AP +1 frag grenade.
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Jun 17, 2017 19:42
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Our death guard player is supposed to dust off her 4th ed army this week, looking forward to it. My first ever game was imperial guard vs plague marines and that super did not go well. They did not give a poo poo about my lasguns. Plus I've got my own plans for a chaos army so seeing them in action will be nice. Re balanced lists being best: I dunno. One of my friends has a list that's nothing but dreadnoughts and techmarines, and none of his games so far have even been close. Edition is still young though. But I do think skew lists are going to beat balanced lists, like in most games. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Jun 17, 2017 |
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Jun 17, 2017 23:26
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:What kind of dreads? Don't remember off the top of my head, he owns like 20 that he swaps around in his list. He's got some ironclads, contemptors, venerable shooty dreads, and some FW stuff like mortis dreads and a leviathan I got him the rules for last night.
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Jun 17, 2017 23:37
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Raphus C posted:I like this person, dreads own. Yeah his dreads are rad. It's something any game with such an open and permissive army building system has. If you build an army where 25% is good at killing vehicles, 25% is good at killing GEQ, 25% MEQ, 25% TEQ, and those weapons are all fairly efficient at killing one category and inefficient at killing the others, then if you fight an army that consists 75-100% of one of those categories you're going to be at a disadvantage. This is a core problem of this kind of game. Look at warmachine facing skews where for months the only winning lists consisted of nothing but the cheapest warjacks so that you couldn't kill enough to take board positions. 40k is facing the same problem and we'll see in a few months to a year what steps they take to correct it.
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Jun 18, 2017 00:58
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:Sternguard can come in drop pods or transports. Primaris can't. Only because we don't have bigly pods and bigly transports yet.
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Jun 18, 2017 19:04
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Another fight vs my Tyranid opponent. My list:  My opponent's list:  I forgot to get pictures. But this time, the table was set up with more line of sight blocking terrain and more stuff that couldn't be moved through, like a building in the middle and some hills with sheer cliffs. His big stuff was better able to keep hidden on the way up, but at the same time he didn't have the run of the table and so having so many models led to him choking in a funnel when he committed about 70 models to a relatively small area. So, on either flank I had a tactical squad. Near the middle was my rhino with one of the plasma cannon squads, contemptor, techmarine, and behind them was my devastator squad up on top of a ruin. Razorback on the left flank, predator and captain on the right flank, terminators and chaplain deep striking. His trygon and a unit of genestealers deep striked. HIs deployment was fairly symmetrical, each side of the table got a unit of hormagaunts, a unit of termagants in front of them, a unit of termagants behind spread out to make it impossible to deep strike anywhere, and a brood lord. Left flank got 2 carnifexes and right flank got the other, hive tyrant was centralized. For objectives I drew capture a point, linebreaker, and take a point for two turns (one of the objectives in my opponent's deployment zone). I moved the rhino up quickly to take the point I needed that was near my deployment, while the other stuff hung back to take max range shots at nids. My shooting wasn't great because of the mission (-1 to shooting over 15 inches) but I killed a good number of stuff. I had my terminators do a turn 1 deep strike to be 12 inches away from the rightmost hormagaunt unit. Between their shooting and some bolter fire from the tac marine squad on that side of the table, they killed 12 of them which meant they couldn't reroll wounds anymore and jam me up as well like they had done previously. My long ranged guns took pot shots at his MCs, didn't do a lot but put a few wounds on carnifexes. His turn 1, he does way more to my terminators than I expected. Between smite and the termagants and hormagaunts, he kills 3 of them. They're all bunched up in front of a big piece of impassable terrain they have to go around though. He deep strikes the tryong and genestealers onto my right flank, but fails the charge roll with both of them. His horde advances up the table on the left side. He keeps his rearguard of termagants in the back making sure that there's no place on that half of the table that I can deep strike. He gets some points for holding objectives in his deployment zone. Turn 2, I draw the kill a character objective. I spend 2 CP to discard the objective to hold the point in their backfield, draw an objective to hold the other point in their backfield. Tac squad piles out of the rhino and all my marines start unloading on his poo poo, bolter, heavy bolter, and plasma fire shredding hormagaunts and genestealers. The genestealers on the left had Catalyst though, so not as many as i wanted die, they've still got about 15 models at the end of the shooting phase. Contemptor's multimelta and the razorback's lascannons delete a carnifex for first blood rhino puts its hunter killer into the hive tyrant and then charges into the oncoming tide of hormagaunts along with my contemptor. My terminators that were surrounded used their teleport beacon to jump back onto my right flank, behind the tac squad that almost got eaten. Together my devastators, tac marines, predator's heavy bolters, and remaining terminators on that side kill 10 genestealers. Predator puts both lascannons into the trygon and gently caress it up. My captain sees an opening, using his jump pack to sprint up the side of the field, unloads storm bolter fire into nearby gaunts, and charges the broodlord. Used a reroll on one of the wounds and that killed it, giving me another VP. He consolidates into the nearby blob of gants. I draw an objective to cast a power or deny the witch, I have no psykers. I have my cataphractii and chaplain deep strike in the middle of my side in front of the oncoming tide of tyranids since there's no way to get behind them with the termagants blocking it. His turn 2, genestealers charge the rhino and contemptor. His gants on the right fall back from my captain, his tyrant rolls really well and drops my captain to 1 wound with smite and shooting. His right carnifex charges my captain and kills him, the left carnifex is sneaking up the side behind buildings. The tac squad on the right gets charged by the trygon, genrstealers, and remaining hormagaunts there and are wiped out but manage to put another wound on the trygon with overwatch. In the middle, his genestealers swarm over my contemptor and rhino, killing the rhino in 1 turn and putting 4 wounds on the contemptor. He scores VP for killing a vehicle. His termagants that were blocking pushed forward now that they weren't needed, he scores a VP for not having any models in his deployment zone. Turn 3, my various heavy weapons kill the trygon. I almost failed, but a plasma cannon from downtown on the other side of the field put the last wound in. Since I killed his broodlord he had no more synapse on that side, and it pretty quickly collapses with the genestealers and hormagaunts over there being wiped out by battle shock. Termagants on the left flank take heavy losses from tac marines on that side and are lost to battle shock since he forgot to have them in synapse range. My chaplain and cataphractii both fail easy rolls to get into combat in the middle. My techmarine runs forward from the ruins he's been hanging out in shooting and repairs the contemptor for 3, each turn the contemptor is killing 2 or so genestealers and slowly working his way through them. One of my tanks manages to put a lascannon into the hive tyrant. His turn 3, his hormagaunts are now starting to wrap around stuff, dragging in one of my tactical squads and the librarian. With the chaplain nearby though a tac squad can kill a ton of gaunts in melee. His tyrant Horrors my devastator squad and kills a few with his gun, and the tyrant and broodlord put smites into my contemptor. The genestealers surge forward and pretty trivially kill my contemptor and techmarine, but by this point they've taken pretty heavy casualties. They pile into my chaplain too, which was a mistake because with 5 wounds and 2+/4++ they don't do a ton to him, and he kills 2 a turn. His flanking carnifex finally comes around and goes into my leftmost tactical squad, doing absolutely nothing and eating a plasma hit for its troubles. His remaining termagant squad come around and charge my backline devastators, dropping them to 3 models. Turn 4 is just a punching match. My terminators, tac marines, and chaplain start working through the remaining models. There's about 12 gaunts, 10 genestealers, and 10 termagants still in the middle. It's a massacre, rerolling to hit helps the cataphractii so much. Genestealers finish off my chaplain. My tac squad falls back from the carnifex and my heavy weapons shoot it, dropping it to 1 wound. The remaining gants are lost to battleshock, leaving a handful of hormagaunts and genestealers. I think this is the turn I finish the tyrant off with my lascannons. The last few turns are kind of a blur. His broodlord goes in and starts tearing through poo poo, it and the carnifex almost wipe a tactical squad which then fall back and my guns kill the carnifex. His remaining models start falling back. His broodlord stays on my flank loving things up while the genestealers escape. He's got like an 11 to 4 VP lead because my objectives were all poo poo and his were pretty trivial, so he plays keep away with them until the game ends on turn 6. I would've killed him on turn 7, all that was left was the broodlord with 4 wounds left and 2 genestealers that had a predator and 2 terminators bearing down on them, I still had my razorback (which was almost dead thanks to the carnifex), predator, 2 terminators, 5 cataphractii, 3 devastators, and an untouched tactical squad. Around turn 5 my predator double taps the other carnifex with lascannons and drops it, it had already taken a lascannon hit on turn 1. Game took about 5 hours to play out. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 04:09
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So I saw vaylund Cal's rules, they made him boring. He's basically just a T6 techmarine with an iron halo, an S10 hammer with 3 attacks, and the generic chapter master rerolls they all get. He's still A3 like a normal techmarine, and he has little reason to ever use his two servo arms. He's also not Iron Hands now, he's explicitly Sons of Medusa.
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Jun 19, 2017 04:43
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So my takeaway from the last battle: Heavy bolter devastators did a lot more than I expected them to, thanks to the signum and the cherub. Terminators performed pretty well. I think they'd do better vs an army that can't trivially make a string of 4 point models across the battlefield to deny deep striking. Having more bolters and investing in plasma cannons did a ton to help my volume of fire issues. Once they got into my kill zone the 3 tac squads tore tyranids apart. Chaplains are loving amazing. He took tac marines from being okay in melee, to killing 7 gaunts a turn per squad with those rerolls. It was my first game with tactical objectives in 8th and I got totally hosed by them. Was pretty rough. Having a jump pack captain around that can suicide into a character seems pretty useful. Killing that broodlord led to the whole flank collapsing from lack of synapse. If he wasn't my warlord though he wouldn't have gotten the kill, he needed that +1 attack. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 05:37
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JBP posted:Sounds like hordes aren't impossible to defeat after all! You're sure right! I'm glad we're in agreement, since no one else in this thread has suggested they are impossible to defeat!
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Jun 19, 2017 05:44
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Thanks to who suggested agrax earthshade btw, it makes my bronzes look way better.
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Jun 19, 2017 07:22
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So, now that I've got the forgeworld point values, here's what I'm doing for my next list: Battalion detachment: HQ: Vaylund Cal (167) Captain with jump pack, storm bolter, relic blade (116) Troops: 2 tac squads, each with combi-plasma, plasmagun, plasma cannon (179 each) Scout squad with sniper rifles (75) Heavy support: Devastator squad with storm bolter, cherub, 3 heavy bolters, missile launcher (127) Relic deimos predator with plasma destroyer, 2 lascannons, storm bolter (209) Dedicated transport: Rhino with 2 storm bolters (74) Razorback with 2 lascannons and storm bolter (117) Vanguard detachment: Terminator chaplain with storm bolter (117) Contemptor with multimelta (167) 5 terminators with power sword, 4 power fists, 1 assault cannon (243) 5 Cataphractii with power sword, 2 chainfists, 2 double lightning claws (230) ijyt posted:You are a meme. Remind me, when was the last time you posted anything with any redeeming value or merit? chutche2 fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 09:08
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Ayn Marx posted:You could have made the gentle ribbing go away by just ignoring it but you just have to keep up the abrasive posts and weird obsessions Yeah, I tried that for like a month. So gently caress it, why not respond?
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Jun 19, 2017 09:29
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Because it makes you look foolish. If you want something to go away you never respond to it. You ignore the comment, regardless of how tempting it is to defend yourself, and focus on what you want to talk about. Every time you respond to someone you are validating that person. Your reply is a clear indication that they got to you and that whatever they posted is important to you. I'm doing the same thing right now by posting this very message, because frankly I'm tired of how easily the thread gets derailed when people get under your skin. If you're tired of the thread being derailed, be tired at the 10 people instigating and not the 1 person responding. panascope posted:Chutche post a picture of your cleaned up Terminators now I don't have access to a decent camera at home.  I put a little bit of earthshade on the cloth but think I do need to go out and get a better wash for it soon. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 16:55
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panascope posted:Consider doing that wash around the rivets on the silver trim pieces as well. Make em look all rusty. Yeah I'll try it. I was being cautious with my trim because with it being such thin pieces there's not a lot of room to wash and highlight them. I've got a motor control problem that makes super fine detail work a chore. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 17:10
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Pendent posted:I can only speak for the Space Marine stuff since it's all I've looked at in depth but what I've seen seems pretty fairly costed. Let's compare my Predator and my Sicaran: And then for a whopping 3 extra points, you can get a relic deimos predator that has 1 more wound. For 2 more points than the twin lascannon, it can get a Heavy 2d3 S7 Ap-3 2 damage plasma cannon. Seems pretty good. That plasma is 3 points more than the autocannon, and trades 1 damage a hit for being ap-3 instead of ap-1, that's always a trade I would make unless fighting daemons or something. Disappointed in the melta cannon though. It's basically a heavy d3 S10 multimelta for 70 points. Can't see ever using that over the twin lascannon for 50. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 18:08
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Man that's garbage, forgeworld characters pay for wargear unlike index characters. So with wargear vaylund cal is 200 points, for a tough techmarine with 3 attacks and rerolls. Kinda lovely. He was overpriced in 6th too but T6 was way more relevant then. chutche2 fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 19:04
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So I think I'll give my sicaran venator a try next time I fight guard or tau or something. With its main gun and 3 heavy bolters it's not that much more than s predator annihilator. If I think I'll see vehicles it should be really nice.
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Jun 19, 2017 19:51
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What are your thoughts on the various ancients? Since they only affect models within 6 and not units, are they worth the cost?
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Jun 19, 2017 21:32
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:From what I've seen, they're too different to make a blanket call on good or bad. Dunno about those but the 3 vanilla ones look almost identical to each other.
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Jun 19, 2017 22:23
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Yeah I think crusaders are definitely the way to go. You can fit 5 terminators, a terminator character, apothecary, ancient or lieutenant, and have extra room.
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Jun 20, 2017 00:11
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Actually though, what do people think of stormraven vs land raider crusader for carrying terminators? Stormraven carries more guns and is cheaper, is faster, the durability difference is probably a wash because of hard to hit. Crusader carries more though, with the stormraven I'd have to carry 5 terminators + a power armor chaplain and apothecary, in the land raider it can be a terminator chaplain plus lots of other poo poo. But the storm raven can carry my contemptor into battle.
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Jun 20, 2017 03:21
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