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So we've seen 3 Guard brigades at 2000 points being possible. How many brigades can other factions fit in 2000 points?
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Jun 17, 2017 16:19
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Terrain, especially obstructive terrain, probably helps a lot with breaking up firing lines for melee armies and neutralizing straight-board charges for ranged armies. I can see it coming in handy for all sides involved. Of course, not needing LOS to charge is a big buff in favor of melee unit long-shots. If you can hook around a mountain or building corner and smash into the enemy, they lose Overwatch and you score the charge.
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Jun 20, 2017 23:28
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:Which is a change I really like. You can actually set up ambushes now! Like, hide a unit around a corner and force the enemy toward them, then charge around the corner. Yeah, something tells me that MSU, super-dense urban maps could be incredibly fun.
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Jun 20, 2017 23:57
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Safety Factor posted:You wouldn't need three Lords of War, just two including the Spartan. 1 is not more than 1. It's still dumb and FW clearly only considered the normal detachments when they wrote that rule. But isn't the Super-Heavy detachment 3-5 LoWs?
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Jun 21, 2017 07:40
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Looking at the Primaris stats, why doesn't the lieutenant's bolt rifle get the AP and extra range of other Primaris bolters? You'd think a weapon with a fancy title like master-crafted auto bolt rifle would get more than just 2 damage standard Marine bolter stats, and Assault instead of Rapid Fire. Does getting 2 shots at 24 inches instead of 15 inches really make such an overwhelming difference that giving it at least the extra AP would make it overpowered?
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Jun 21, 2017 18:10
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chutche2 posted:See, I think I'd like Lts better hanging out with the big guns. Yeah. I feel like at least talking starter set chars, Swordguy should catch up with the Inceptors to help them through combat situations, Gunhaver should stick with the Hellblasters for that sweet plasma reroll.
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Jun 21, 2017 18:38
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I feel like the "PL isn't for them" argument is a tautology because it seems to entirely exist in us trying to say that. The huge decrease in granularity and uptick in free options means that Power Level benefits power gamers who liberally slather on all the most expensive options, but hamper the player who builds more conservatively. We can say PL isn't for powergamers as much as we want, but that isn't going to stop people from gaming the far easier to game system.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:02
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Quick question, what were Chapter and Legion tactics for the non-individual codex Marines? Like, Emperor's Children, Imperial Fists, Salamanders, that kind of thing.
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Jun 23, 2017 03:05
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JBP posted:Are you asking about their rules or general fluff stuff? Mostly game stuff, but considering 8th is a new edition the fluff could be helpful too for puzzling out how they might work down the road.
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Jun 23, 2017 03:11
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That makes sense. And super agreed on preferring Space Vikings to Wolfmarine Wolfdudeguys. I'm surprised that there's so much mirrored between the Imperium and Chaos factions, honestly.
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Jun 23, 2017 04:08
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Yeah, from what I've seen of FW rules I haven't been jazzed. Maybe superheavies you can't get elsewhere, but anything with a proper frame of reference has always been so off.
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Jun 23, 2017 09:57
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I've been looking between old dread and new dread constantly, and the only differencr I'm seeing is knees. What am I missing?
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Jun 23, 2017 17:59
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Kithkar posted:It's fucken huge and far more detailed. Also probably bigger, better guns Exactly. Size and details are the main difference I'm seeing, so I'm not sure where all the mecha comments are coming from.
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Jun 23, 2017 18:20
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chutche2 posted:There's definite similarities to battletech in the arm and leg structure, also with the circular missile pod on the top. That's a very iconic look. That's true. Especially the legs, which looked more hydraulic on the old dreads. I'm kind of excited to see what options Primaris Dreads have. Hopefully we keep getting giant, flat missile arrays or guns adhered to the sides, instead of always having arms.
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Jun 23, 2017 18:48
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:At least one of the gun options is a big gatling cannon that looks like the Leman Russ Punisher's main gun. Hopefully it'll be one of those "I throw out a giant bucket of dice and laugh" options, like the gatling cannons for the Leman Russ Demolisher or Taurox Prime. Those seem really fun, and I bet they'll be critical to help smaller armies like Primaris with wrangling hordes.
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Jun 23, 2017 19:17
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I'll be honest, I like the boxnought way more than the dudenought, so I'm glad the Primaris one isn't a full return to the Contemptor design.
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Jun 23, 2017 21:51
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I kinda dig the new Reavers basically just having giant machetes, even if it feels weird seeing a Space Marine using a non-Power or chainsword weapon. Also, was that basically confirmation that Black Templars are back to a more unique no-Psyker setup?
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Jun 25, 2017 19:20
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SteelMentor posted:Bear in mind these Reivers are only snap fits, guaranteed there will be a multipart box down the line, the Dark Imperium novel supposedly describes some as using Stalker-esque bolters with weaponised grapel-launchers underslug. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually we got Primaris with options, alongside multipart boxes. Also, goofy as it sounds, stealth marines with combat grapple guns sounds great. Paint them Imperial Fist colors and call them Scorpion. Hell, all I can imagine is grappling an enemy commander into the woods so your other skull-faced buddies can knife the crap out of him. It's a beautiful image. The Bee fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jun 25, 2017 |
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Jun 25, 2017 19:36
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Zaphod42 posted:Rocket-propelled shells I feel like in 7th they got over their psyker hateboner, but it may have just been in the fluff and usage of things like astropaths.
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Jun 25, 2017 19:54
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Safety Factor posted:No. Scout sniper rifles are some insane contraption that shoots a small laser to make a hole in an enemy's armor just in time for a toxic needle to penetrate and get into their bloodstream. What.
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Jun 25, 2017 21:13
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I want to say this is exactly the kind of stupidity I like about 40k, but I think it loops around to being so stupid it just makes my head hurt.
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Jun 25, 2017 21:40
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Oh, no, the needle part is fine. I mean the perfectly coincidental timing of both the red-hot laser and the needle, just spread apart enough to avoid incinerating the needle but just close enough to let the needle make contact through a tiny gap in the armor.
The Bee fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Jun 25, 2017 |
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Jun 25, 2017 22:10
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What are the other Primaris models in the First Strike box? I can see the Reivers, but are the others another trio of Intercessors?
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Jun 26, 2017 00:23
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I mean, chutche has a cupola good points. Hitting a Space Marine with plasma removes "one wound," while hitting a Primaris with it removes "two wounds." However, the main difference is that you're usually not going to hit a regular marine with plasma, so it's kind of a non-issue. For other weapons, a Primaris has a better chance of surviving flamers and grenades. Having two attacks, even with no dedicated CQC units yet (besides the new Skullmachetes), also helps them survive better on the assault, which can be important when dealing with fight-happy armies.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:20
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Getting Primaris into assault against anything intended for close combat seems like a terrible idea to me. They are no more effective than a regular 10 man tactical squad, and being only 5 guys means they can be surrounded and locked. That's true. I meant more getting them through turn 1 of the assault so you can disengage, not intentionally getting into the mix. The Inceptors can't charge after falling back, right? Only shoot? I know there are rules for keywords like Fly, but I can't find them in the previous rulebook leak.
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Jun 26, 2017 17:44
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Yeah, Inceptors being a strafing unit who can say "screw it" and go for mortal wound charge pickoffs gives them a nice niche compared to straight-up assault marines. Hellblasters and Inceptors, meanwhile, just seem like Tall Limited Devastators and Tall Limited Tacticals.
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Jun 26, 2017 20:25
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JBP posted:I really dislike the skullface marines and think they'd be better left as a chapter specific unit rather than one everyone can use. They don't make a heap of sense. I could see the skullface being cool on some chapter color schemes. As Imperial Fists the skullface can probably look more like a fancy mouth guard if painted up in black. Crimson Fists they can show off the two-tone color scheme quite nicely. They're tailor-made for Marines Malevolent, and a way to add shark teeth to them could be cool for Carcharodons. Blood Angels, Raven Guard, and Black Templars are perfect fits for them. Something like Ultramarines or Salamanders, though? Just doesn't work.
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Jun 27, 2017 00:59
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JBP posted:Yeah, but 76 doesn't necessarily have to wear a stupid skull mask over his mouth. He finally tied the knot with Reaper. It was beautiful.
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Jun 27, 2017 01:15
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I feel like a lot of times, Primaris models get better with a little bit of tweaking. For example, Inceptors with the hoods shoved off don't look like they're being dragged around by the necks.
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Jun 27, 2017 01:26
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Sharks Dont Sleep posted:You got a pic of those inceptors? I was thinking about doing that. As well as taking the gun shields off.  Pic courtesy of Reddit.
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Jun 27, 2017 02:04
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Glad I could help. I feel like I'd try it myself if I ever got my hands on some Primaris, but I'm still solidly amateur-level so I'd be worried about damaging the rest of the Marine too. Unless, of course, anyone has tips for making easy, precise removals like that.
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Jun 27, 2017 02:57
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RagnarokAngel posted:Page back but when people say rules feel "gamey" Its trying to label their dislike of simplified rules. And I kinda get that, but its from a sort of...cognitive distortion? Ah, so DnD 4E syndrome. Got it.
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Jun 27, 2017 03:47
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What makes battle cannons so bad, anyway? Is it just the swinginess of having both damage and shots fired being randomly determined, along with a not particularly impressive strength score?
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Jun 27, 2017 06:03
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SRM posted:Pretty much. On average you're getting 3 shots, half of those hit, and one or two of those will wound, causing an average of two wounds each. You can probably kill an elite infantry model or two or punch a smaller hole in a tank. While potentially powerful, it really depends on you rolling above average to do anything notable. Yeah, the swinginess between 18 wounds and 1 wound is really noticeable on a Battle Cannon, especially when that's before considering hits, wounds, and saves.
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Jun 27, 2017 06:12
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General Olloth posted:Even if the odds end up being roughly the same as the old system I think the real problem is how you end up with an extra random roll layer to replace the scatter and then still roll to hit anyway. I'd rather it be like d6 automatic hits or 2d3 or something for everything besides just flamers. Increase the points cost if that's too good but make it feel better at least. We're rolling to hit twice before also rolling to wound and then also them possibly getting an armor save (and then also them possibly getting feel no pain). That's a really good point. If I can do some quick mathhammer, let me see how battle cannons compare against . . . let's go with the thread favorite, an unstoppable horde of Hormagants. At 1d6 attacks, the Russ does an average of 3.5 attacks with its Battle Cannon. It has a 4+ BS, so it hits with an average of 1.75 of them. Str 8 doubles and exceeds Toughness 3, so that lets the Russ wound on a 2+. This means we get 1.46 average hits wound. At a 6+ save, we go to 1.21 average hits left unsaved. These deal an average of 1.5 wounds per attack, for an average of ~1.81 wounds delivered. This means the Leman Russ' main cannon can fire into a horde of space bugs and blow up one of them, maybe two if its accuracy is particularly on point. It is also capable of lightly poking at the armor on other vehicles. Now, lets use the Flamer style rules for battle cannons, ignoring the 4+ BS that chips away so many of the Russ' wounds. 3.5 attacks delivered on average, wounding 5/6ths of the time and being saved against 1/6th of the time. 3.5 * (5/6) * (5/6) gives us a final average of 2.43 hits wounding, which is a far sunnier outlook for what is supposed to be a main battle cannon. Multiply by 1.5 average wounds, and you're dealing about 3.65 wounds on average. Now you're blowing up two Termies per turn, or putting fairly large dents in your average light vehicle. I really don't know why they didn't do that for all former template weapons, honestly. As is, the roll is just another layer of randomness in a game where you're already flinging tons of dice. It would make cannons, grenades and other explosives far more useful, rather than just being the poor man's plasma or melta. The Bee fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Jun 27, 2017 |
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Jun 27, 2017 07:43
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JBP posted:Can I gt a battle cannon that fires gaunts at poo poo? Now that would be a great Tyranid model. The rocket-propelled Tervigon. Fires Hormagants at your enemy's face instead of laying an orderly set of Termagants down.
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Jun 27, 2017 07:51
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What are the weapons on the Plague Marines in the Dark Imperium set, btw?
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Jun 27, 2017 21:58
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TheChirurgeon posted:There's a plasma gun, some bolters, and a couple dudes with power fists. Alright, awesome. From this page, the main thing that has me confused is the mace of sorts in the bottom-left guy's hands.
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Jun 27, 2017 22:16
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Felime posted:He's pulling out a grenade. Loadout on the plague marine squad is a plasma, 5 bolters, and a power fist/bolter. Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. Although is power fist / bolter a legal combo? The bullet point on their data sheet makes it sound like you'd have to replace both the bolter and bolt pistol in order to get a power fist and plasma gun.
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Jun 27, 2017 22:25
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TheChirurgeon posted:the champion has a power fist and plague knife. Someone else has the plasma gun. Exactly. "The Plague Champion may replace his bolt pistol and bolter with a power fist and plasma gun, or with items from the Champion Equipment list." Although the Champion Equipment list does have a Bolt Pistol, so I could see "bolt pistol and power fist" being the combo chosen for this set.
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Jun 27, 2017 22:27
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