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goose willis posted:Is there a single 8th edition army that's extremely under-powered or unplayable now? Seems like they actually made everything pretty balanced for once and most armies hover around "average" or "pretty good" but nothing seems to be "garbage" or "insta-win" anymore which is good While I have only played one game with them my Harlequins felt a lot worse than my dark angels, they still feel way over cost for what you get. Sure you can get off some easy turn one charges with them, but they don't actually kill the stuff when they charge... and then the enemy falls back and you get murdered cause of your low toughness and you don't benefit from cover cause you have a 4++ and no armor. They are by no means unplayable, but I didn't think anything was unplayable in 7th either.
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Jun 17, 2017 15:20
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Master Twig posted:All of the forgeworld stuff I've seen seems way more powerful than standard book units with similar power ratings.* It seems like there's a definite disconnect between the team writing the rules for FW and the team writing the core rules. I hope Malenthropes arent stupid good as I have three that made up the back bone of my Nids in 7th. They were very strong in 7th but now busted, would be sad if i had to toss them in a box and never use them again.
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Jun 19, 2017 17:42
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So I got my Nids out for their first 8th edition game.    I tottaly stomped my friends demons. He had no real shooting so he couldn't get to the tervigon which was keeping the termaguant squads full as the chipped away at what ever they were fighting. I also got 2 6 wound smites against his blood thruster. This is the first time my Nids have ever tabled anyone. The only thing I lost was 2 fexs and 3/5ths of a hormaguant squad. The Malenthropes were being proxied for venomthropes since i couldnt find point values for them.
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Jun 21, 2017 16:29
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Even if you are a casual player don't you still dislike getting stomped? I am not arguing that either power or points does a better job at balancing things cause they were both created by GW, which are normally pretty bad at balance. If you and your friends just dump WYSIWYG armies on the table without any thought of balance isn't there a decent chance one army will be at meaningful disadvantage? I consider myself casual because I am not interested in getting a advantage over my opponent in list building, I prefer two equal armies to meet and to let the dice gods choose who shall be victorious. While I haven't played enough 8th to know this, I imagine neither points nor power will be a decent way to actually balance a game and I will have to do what I did in 7th, just play enough to get a good feel for things and figure it out myself. That being said I think its super cool that we have essentially two metas and what will be balanced in them will be different. It will add even more variety to games, which I like.
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Jun 22, 2017 01:40
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I found a use for my old tactical cards, wound trackers!  Ordered smaller brads from amazon as the office supply store only had these giant ones. They are amazing but they take like 2 minutes to make and will last until someone makes cool/reasonably priced ones for 40k. I have a pretty nasty habit of picking up dice if they aren't bolted down so these will be pretty helpful. I also ordered 8d3 cause rolling 5 or 6 d3s at a time doesn't seem like a rare occurrence in 8th.
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Jun 23, 2017 18:21
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Master Twig posted:The Broodlord, Hive Tyrant and Trygons are all exceptional at assaulting vehicles and putting out lots of damage. The exocrine is also quite excellent at it. And believe it or not, devourer gaunts are very good at vehicles that are only T7 or less. They may only wound on 5s, but with that many shots, you're gonna average 13 wounds (thanks to rerolling 1s to wound). I have only played two games with my Nids in 8th but it seems like termagants are very good. If I were looking to lose friends I would buy another tervigon and build 20 more devourer termagants and run two tervigons and 3 units of 10 devgants + 20 fleshborers as the base of my army.
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Jun 25, 2017 16:56
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Ayn Marx posted:First look at the Primaris Reivers infiltrators, some new starter kits: Those new box sets look a lot like the infinity starter sets.
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Jun 25, 2017 18:32
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So I have been trying to figure out how to paint the primaris marnie's from dark imperium. I want to paint them as ultramarines and I want them to follow the chapter organizational rules and such but am not sure how exactly all the trims and stuff work with the new primaris marines. All the official GW pictures have them with gold trim which make them 2nd company I think? But they put things like Librarians in gold trim, which I don't see as being part of 2nd company. Also they put the new captain in gold trim, I thought the captain of the 2nd company was Cato? I know I "can paint my dudes however I want" but for this project I want to try and stay as close to possible with Ultramarine structure.
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Jun 25, 2017 19:29
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Pendent posted:God I hope not. Phasing out the multipose kits would basically kill my interest in the hobby. While I would still very much enjoy the hobby if they did this, it would still make me super sad and take away the biggest advantage GW has over most other wargames.
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Jun 26, 2017 02:47
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Harkano posted:Anyone able to help out a couple of New Bigly owning brothers with some Smurf organisational nonsense? SRM told me this quote:The gold trim does indeed mean second company. That's the stock scheme for most of GW's box art, so that's the reason you'll see captains who aren't Sicarius wearing it. The markings they've been getting have been tactical markings for the Intercessors and Devastator markings for the Hellblaster guys; how they'll work in the overall company structure is still up in the air as far as I know. There's a little info in the included Primaris pamphlet in the new Dark Imperium box. I think more or less GW hasn't really said how these guys are going to fit in exactly, I plan on just treating them as tactical, assault, and devs. One of the things that really threw me for a loop was the transfers have a "XIII" transfer, and there are only 10 squads in a company, maybe it was intended to be cut in half to make a "X" and "III" but its kind of confusing.
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Jun 27, 2017 17:48
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jadebullet posted:Ultramarines are the 13th Legion. Do they ever wear that on their shoulder pads? I thought the shoulder pad numbers were squad markings? They also give you "XI" transfers, this is in addition to the 5 "IX" they give you. yes they could just be giving you ten "IX" but why would they print half of them backwards and the other half normal, also why give you 10 "IX" when there are only 5 hellblasters but only give you 5 "III" when their are 10 intercessors. Also I think most of our questions are less about how things were, its more about how primaris marines fit into the structure. Hellblasters aren't Devastators, they kind of fill a similar roll, so are they replacing the Devastators in 2nd company? are all the Devastators in 2nd company being replaced by hellblasters, or just some? I mean there are a lot of things that could change
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Jun 27, 2017 18:25
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chutche2 posted:So, re: blast weapons. Asking why GW is bad at balance is like asking why cats purr or dogs fetch, its just part of their DNA. Like in 3 months once people have broken 8th edition and the best list start dominating local scenes people are going to go back to complaining about the rules. New Codexes will drop, some will be trash and some will be good. 8th isn't some great system with a few minor flaws, its another mess with awesome models and a cool story.
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Jun 27, 2017 19:48
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TheChirurgeon posted:The new book basically has Primaris Ultramarines operating as an 11th company Does the new book have any more details? Like what color is associated with the 11th company or how the squads are organized? Pretty lame for GW to give instructions on how to paint these dudes to be in 2nd company (its even on the banner of the ancient) if they already have plans to make them their own company, or maybe they are just planning on big sizing everything in a year and don't want to have to change their artwork?
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Jun 27, 2017 22:36
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TheChirurgeon posted:It says they don't have company color markings when they arrive on scene. My guess is that they'll eventually get added into companies as marines die and get replaced (the book even has a primaris captain wonder what older marines think about their days being numbered, and wondering if they're bitter about it). I'm p much done with it, so if you want it, PM me your address and I can mail it to you. It's OK. Not amazing, but it's not bad and it has its moments. It's not overly heavy on battles--which I tend to not give a poo poo about in most of the books--but the ones it does have are just primaris dudes curbstomping everyone they come across (though I haven't read the last few chapters. I assume at least one of them will die on-page at some point). Thanks for the offer but I don't really care for the Black Library stuff. I read the first parts HH and liked some of it, couldnt make it through the Alpha legion book though. Tried some other stuff and it all just felt very meh to me. Its mostly me, I have a weird strong preferance for fantasy in books but sci fi for models. Hopefully the codex will come out in July and answer all my questions regarding squad/company markings for primaris, I should be done painting them by that point.
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Jun 28, 2017 00:28
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berzerkmonkey posted:The quote for Know No Fear is "nearly half the price of Dark Imperium," ($160) which I'm taking to mean $85-$90. I would wager First Strike is around $55-$60. $80 and $40 from the glance I got at the order form. Also there will be a $15 Reaver and Intercessor kit, not how many come in it, I expect 3 like the old small snap fit boxes. There will also be a $8 getting started kit which will be like the AOS one.
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Jun 28, 2017 19:18
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berzerkmonkey posted:I'm kind of surprised at the $40 - that's pretty cheap on the GW scale. Then again, it looks like it's only 6 Primaris models, 3 DG, and 6 Plague Zombies. Maybe that is the price the store is buying them at? I know there is less of a mark up on those kinds of box sets. Only got a glance at it and didn't ask any questions. Edit: actually pretty sure those were retail prices as I am confident the get started thing is retail $8 as are the $15 small squads. JesusIsTehCool fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jun 28, 2017 |
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Jun 28, 2017 19:31
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Xae posted:Lets say I'm thinking about making Bad Life Decisions and getting into 40k. Have you ever built or painted a model before? If the answer is no I would suggest buying one of those kits they have that have the paint included with a model. If you don't like building and painting models and don't want to spend $100s of dollars on a pre painted army i would suggest you don't play Warhammer 40k proper, there a dozens of cheaper and better balanced games, 40ks biggest advantages are in its hobby side. If the you just absolutely love the 40k world check out the skirmish games. If you have painted models before and enjoyed it follow the above advice. The amount of time it takes to paint 500 points can vary a lot and is somewhat up to you. If you just want simple table top standard you can likely get it done in 25 hours.
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Jun 30, 2017 02:37
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chutche2 posted:I've seen a few games with gargoyles and they've never done enough to make it worth bringing them for their cost. Really have to disagree here. Unless you need the troop slot i would always take 20 gargoyles over 24 hormaguants. They move faster, have fleshborers, have fly, and blinding vemon, and all you lose is 28 meh close combat attacks. Fly makes it just as easy to surround and since both are more or less there to tie stuff up for the better stuff getting a couple of less wounds in close combat and causing them to have -1 to hit is good trade. The biggest downside to gargoyles over hormaguants is that the are hard to trasport and their little spiky bits sink into foam and snap.
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Jun 30, 2017 16:52
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chutche2 posted:Gargoyles are flying termagants, not hormagaunts. 24 hormagaunts vs 20 gargoyles isn't the comparison really, it's 30 termagants vs 20 gargoyles. And with hormagaunts rerolling wounds and hits of 1 their melee is better than it looks. Your saying you shouldn't compare Gargoyles to hormaguants? Sorry thats dumb, you should compare all units that share even similar roles in a codex. Hormaguants dont do anything significant gargoyles can't as far as i can tell, so whats the good reason for not comparing them other than you say so. Do you not compare hormagaunts to termagants? Termagants are better than both in my opinion because devourer termagants are great and sticking 10 in a unit of 30 makes them pretty safe. Not to mention they get even stronger with a tervigon. But that is besides my point. My point was cutting gargoyles before hormaguants is bad advice if you are purly tyring to make a stronger list. Rerolling 1s is ok. But for alot of things you are wounding on a 5s so your never going to do a lot of damage with either. I have ran them in the 3 games I have played and they are the worst performing unit I run. I still love them as they look cool on the board. Dont forget Gargoyles get to reroll 1s to wound on shooting when 20+, which is actually better since fleshborers are S 4 so they are wounding on 4s and 3s sometimes, which makes the 1 reroll better. Unlike hormaguants they will actually do something turn one as well as they can advance and still shoot. So gargoyles will have 2 rounds of shooting and a charge while hormaguants will just get to charge.
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Jun 30, 2017 18:20
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chutche2 posted:Aren't fleshborers 12 inch range? I feel like if you're rushing your unsupported screen up into rapid fire bolter range and without support from your army turn 1 to shoot a bunch of BS5+ bolt pistols your opponent will thank you What would make them unsupported, you just daisy chain like 3 of them into a malenthrope/venomthrope range and they are as support as anything else in your army... plus everything else is like just 4-8" back its not like they are going to be WAY out in front. Also nothing is requiring you moving them up that far if its a tactical error like moving into a 1st rank 2 rank situation, but having the option of advancing an extra 4" and shooting a BS5+ is better than not having that option. Shooting first is normally best, gargoyles don't even have to advance a lot of the time to get into range with their fleshborers turn 1, which makes them even better.
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Jun 30, 2017 19:05
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Master Twig posted:Hormagaunts and Gargoyles are both bad. I agree thar termagants are by far the best of the three, after my primaris marines are painted adding 20 more devourer termagants to my horde. I prefer the aesteics of them running across the table in a giant wave of aliens over pouring out from under ground (although this is still awesome and terrifying)
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Jun 30, 2017 20:37
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:So what's your philosophy on stuff like this? If you keep stomping your friends with a list you either need to change your list up to include less powerful parts, like no teleporting or something, or play another army. I have a necron army i havent played in 4 years because it just kept destroying all my friends and they werent enjoying playing the game with me becauss of it. Once your friends figure out something that works better and has beat you a few times then bust back out that list and see whats what. I am sadly having the same issue with my Nids hordes list, they are 4-0 and I dont plan on playing them for a month or so till my friends figure out their armies a little more.
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Jul 4, 2017 16:41
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Regarding Psyker powers. The issue with 7th wasn't that "you had to have random powers" (this isn't even true. A space marine librarian could pick from a list of like 10 powers by the end of 7th) the problem was the awful balance. It doesn't matter what the system for getting those powers are if 75% of them bad 20% are cool and 5% are bustedly strong its not going to work. Also most Races didnt have access to most of the powers, sp nids had one tree and space marines had like 10. Now it seems like the powers are more balanced but at the cost of varity and making them more bland. My ideal situation would be schools of 6 balanced powers accessable by most races which you rolled for or you could us command points to purchase. I like the idea of being rewarded for building more generalist lists which are flexible enough to benefit from several powers and reward you for being able to adapt but like the option to build a very specific list that require specific powers if I want. This however would require a level of balance and imagination to pull off that I have never seen from GW so I guess I should just be happy with my relatively boring power where I dont get to even choose the target. JesusIsTehCool fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jul 5, 2017 |
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Jul 5, 2017 16:32
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xtothez posted:Of course it was. Random powers meant that you could end up with powers on a unit that could never practically use them (like psychic shriek on a solo Zoanthrope) or entirely situational powers (like The Horror against all-Fearless armies). Psychic disciplines generally became good or bad from having a decent primaris power or small number of options to roll from. That was only an issue for armies that didn't have access to more than one school, which is a balance problem not a problem with the OPTION of rolling. The problem of getting worthless powers goes away if all the powers are useful. 7th was not so bad for chaos and space marine psykers who had almost a dozen powers THEY COULD JUST PICK and like over 100 they could roll for. The issue was there were some powers like invisibility which were so unbalanced they could mean the differnece between winning and losing a game, and some schools which were full of garbage powers like pyromancy (leave it to GW to mess up fire magic) which were never even considered options by the playerbase.
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Jul 5, 2017 17:00
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berzerkmonkey posted:The Core Rules clearly state that if you cannot draw a direct LOS to the model, you can't shoot at it. If that building blocks LOS, the models can't be shot at. If it is a Ruin, then you get the benefit of cover. I think his issue is that the red unit can see only one of the green but can shoot them all with out any of them receiving any cover
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Jul 5, 2017 21:10
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General Olloth posted:You read it all correct. It seems that the intent of the base rules was to make it very very very simple. You can tell they realized this makes a lot of terrain you might have useless so when you get the advanced rules and see things the imperial statue and barricades and such. Its not that simple though because they actually give rules for a common large terrain piece, hills, and it specially spells out that there is no way to get cover from them. The only thing they can do is block LOS.
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Jul 5, 2017 21:25
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Proletariat Beowulf posted:Biovores are one of the better sources of Mortal Wounds, it appears. Stack a full squad in a Tyrannocyte and watch them go to town. Boom: no more Wulfen/Terminators/Meganobz/[insert heavy infantry]. I might be interested in some of it!
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Jul 6, 2017 15:57
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Deified Data posted:My birthday this year is coinciding with a renewed desire to get into the hobby so I added a start collecting Space Woofs box to my good boy list so I can paint up some techno-vikings. My friend who's also breaking into 40K is rolling with Dark Angels so I'll have a good, natural enemy to smash guys against. Would you guys say 8th edition is a decent starting point for someone who's never played before? I've loved Warhammer for years but most just the fluff/modeling portion of it and the video games. Since you have already build models and enjoy it go hog wild on whatever. The strengths of 40k are the great fluff and the great models, the game is more or less an excuse to play space barbies with your friends. Its not balanced and likely never will be. If you can look past that and just enjoy your beautiful army in motion then any edition is a good starting place. The only thing you should be careful about is that they are currently updating the space marine line, small marines will continue to be phased out and lose their value. On the one hand its a great time to start a new army as the new marines will likely stick around for 15+ years, on the other hand there is a smaller second hand market for new marines. If you are willing to wait like 6 months you could likely pick up whole armies of small marines for super cheap as people ditch them for big marines.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:34
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TKIY posted:I'm trying to figure out how Biovores aren't great. Hide them with a pack of Hive Guard inside LoS blocking cover, babysit them with a Malanthrope or warrior unit and go to town. 36 points for a 48" gun hitting on 4s that needs no LoS and can cause d6 Mortal Wounds? If they miss you get free spore mines? Yea but they are money expensive and the models are pretty ugly and old.
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Jul 6, 2017 19:39
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TheChirurgeon posted:Been working on some Shadow War terrain recently. There's a ton of detail on these, so I'm trying to put a bit more effort into them than I usually do. I'm still trying to keep the palettes relatively muted so the models pop in photos/on a quick table scan. So far, this is been fun enough that I may revisit my older, less-detailed terrain and pick out some more details on it. Very cool, have been considering buying some of this and you are making it more tempting.
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Jul 6, 2017 23:54
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The Bee posted:A proper sniper unit to make characters go away will also help Tyranids and Guardsmen crumple. Your gonna need a hell of a lot of snipers to kill all the synapse in a Nids list. I normally have 2 Malenthropes and a Tervigon (no need for snipers here). So just to kill my basic synapse your snipers need to do 18 wounds (with minus one to hit) and you need to kill the Tervigon (also minus one to hit). That doesn't even consider the other sources of synapse I often bring like Zonethropea, Hive tyrant, and Warriors.
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Jul 10, 2017 19:04
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The Bee posted:As for Snipers vs. Synapse, I was thinking small babysitters like Warriors at most. An HQ is going to take a lot more than that to bring down. Warriors aren't characters so you don't need to snipe them. I am not exactly sure what is good against Malenthropes. Mine are normally pretty bubble wrapped in gants and turn 1 and 2 normally have carnifexs with in 3 of them so even if you can charging in could be pretty deadly. I agree snipers seem useful against guard though.
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Jul 10, 2017 19:57
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Zuul the Cat posted:I did better with them in 7th, although barely. Oh man... now I feel even more like a dick for the list I have made for Sunday...
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Jul 11, 2017 16:49
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Sorry to kind of ignore your post, but is this quality level of terrain/table at stores normal? I see a lot of pictures of people playing on what I would consider low quality tables, and that is one thing when its your own table and you might not have the time or resources to get make something nice, but a store should at the very least have fully painted terrain and something a little nicer than the sad little hill. Maybe I am spoiled because I build a lot of terrain and spend as much time on boards as I do models, but I can't imagine getting excited about putting my models, that I have spent dozens if not hundreds of hours on, on some half assed table like that.
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Jul 13, 2017 00:50
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Played a small game against my friends Grey Knights, I assumed I was going to win since he only had 2 termie units, a dread knight, and Draigo and I had a bunch of plasma.       Highlights include Draigo comically falling behind his troops as they had successful charges and he failed. Both of my Razorbacks exploding, one dealing 1d3 mortal wounds to everything on the table besides Draigo (he failed a charge and was too far away). And me foolishly charging a 2 wounds remaining dreadnight with a Librarian and getting toasted by his flamer weapons. He tabled me turn 3, but it wasn't as one sided as that makes it sound. In retrospect I should have left my captain with the plasma cannons so they could have overcharged every turn. I am just so used to people killing them all turn one I didn't think to support them. I also got my captain killed doing a heroic intervention in a dumb way, thinking he could go toe to toe with some grey knights in close combat was foolish, should have kept him back out of combat. Good game though and my friends Grey Knights look great on our Ice Board.
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Jul 14, 2017 17:15
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Genghis Cohen posted:Man, that terrain (especially the big installation built over the rock) looks amazing. Sorry you got wrecked! It's actually quite impressive for such a small army to do that. He must have had every unit doing loving work. Thanks, that piece took me awhile to make but is a great center piece. It is huge and can block a lot of the board. Once I play a few more games of 8th I am going to write up a bunch of rules for my terrain as GW decided general terrain rules were much to complicated and gummed up the game too much. I'm not salty at all that I spent dozen of hours making hills that now RAW do nothing... Yea I was also suprised I got tabled. But he got off everyone of his mini smites but the one i was able to deny. Draigo also allows them all to re roll all to hit rolls, so he was pumping out 4 bolter shots with each of his dudes and hitting almost all of them.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:11
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The Kingfish posted:The ultramarine tactics are concerning. They are super good and it's easy to imagine GW loving the whole game up again with dogshit faction rules. They should have released chaos or deldar faction rules first to show they aren't planning on throwing those factions in the trash again this edition. I think I would rather have an even more broken game (I don't think 8th is ever close to being balanced) that has more interesting rules and variation. Every army having some reroll bubble thing is boring. When my Dark Angel army feels similar to playing my nids army something is wrong.
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Jul 15, 2017 17:21
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So Ynnari still seems super busted and strong. My one unit of 5 players in a Starweaver were able to bring down half a dakka jet, 2 war bosses, a pain boy, and a truck before dieing to the truck exploding. On one turn the shadowseer killed the meganobs they were fighting with smite, the troupe soulbursted moved 8 keeping one guy with in 3 of the shadowseer, the shadowseer used his second psyker power to let the players move again, they pull up right next to a truck that was on the other side of our huge terrain feature (lol flip belts dont give a drat) and blew it up. I think it would be a little better if Ynnari Psykers had to use the Ynnari discipline and couldn't get the Harlequin move for free spell on top of soul bursting, but not sure how to balance "extra shooting or fighting turn" Maybe make it so each unit can only do it once per game?
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Jul 15, 2017 17:52
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JoshTheStampede posted:Do you think it's worth losing Rising Crescendo though? I don't know, I only play them as Ynnari as I have about 50/50 Harlequins and Craftworld Eldar (which I know now doesn't matter anymore but I got used to playing them as Ynnari so I didn't have to bring some dumb formations) But for the sake of conversation Rising Crescendo seems really good if what you want to do is charge turn one, if you want to have more of a shooting game soul burst is obviously better. In my opinion the 1 str: 8 ap: - 4 d:1d6 shoots are a little better than the 4 str:5 ap: -2 d:1 close combat attacks and if you only have points for one I take the pistols. Even if you go close combat I think soul burst might still be stronger. Being able to attack twice in close combat turns 2-6 seems better than being able to advance and charge and pull out of combat and getting to assault turn one. But that is all conjecture as I have not played using rising crescendo in 8th.
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Jul 15, 2017 18:15
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Genghis Cohen posted:Eh, maybe I'm jumping to conclusions then. I would find it really frustrating to be shot or preemptively charged in my own turn though. Do you hate overwatch (especially Tau) with an equal passion? I agree that bringing something that is way stronger than your friends list is uncool and I try to avoid it when I can, this was literally my first real 8th edition game with my Ynnari and had heard orks were actually strong so I wasn't sure how good this would be. It is much much stronger than battle focus, but I don't know if it's unbalanceable though. Like I said I think it would be fine if each unit could only do it once per game or you could only use each option (move, shoot, charge) once per game round instead. I think it is an interesting mechanic that matches the fluff pretty well, its just too strong and needs toning down. It has actually leads my opponents to have to think a little more critically about what to kill when as they know if they kill something it will set off a move or shoot or what not, and really rewards me for planning my moves and shoots well.
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Jul 15, 2017 21:35
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