|
Darwinism posted:So one of my players would like to go for melee, but it seems really high-risk at low resources since there don't seem to be tons of ways to boost your defense. Am I getting a decent read on that, and what's some advice for melee player builds? A large combat shield gives +4 to defense from the front. At 4 Str you can combine it with a Long (melee shape variaton) Balanced Weapon (exotic weapon) to make a Legion Legionnaire. BabelFish fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Jul 18, 2018 |
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 00:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 5, 2024 21:27 |
|
|
It's important to note that Fragged Empire is not Star Wars. It is at it's core a cover-based shooter, and so someone going into melee is gonna need to either specialize, or find a gimmick, because being out of cover is a bad idea. It's not that melee isn't supported, it's that it's supported as either a secondary option, or an obsession, without really a great in-between. Good ways to make it work that I've seen are a) ignore cover and buy in completely with full strength and just get massive armor and figure you'll just tank the inevitable hits, b) go full glass cannon (knives + dual wielding + certain traits are hilariously lethal) and hope you kill fast enough that you won't die c) invest in Tactical for stealth and try doing hit-and-runs / assassinations, or d) go for Impair and weapons/traits that focus on control to be sort of a semi-weird melee controller. Or combine some of these together! No reason Knives Guy can't also be encased in the thickest carapace bio-engineered!
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 02:34
|
|
|
There's a reason why the sourcebooks that expect more melee combat have momentum as a thing (And Aeternum has the Rush action to encourage running around the battlefield even more.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 02:37
|
|
|
Could you talk a little more about what actually goes into those builds? Particularly the glass cannon or tactical ones. A friend of mine is either going to run Gamma World 7E or Fragged Empire, depending on what the rest of the group prefers (I'd be thrilled with either) and I've wanted to roll a melee Zhou ever since the last recruitment post for FE here fizzled out.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 02:42
|
|
|
Glass Cannon is pretty straight forward. Use combat knife and dual wield it and you're already rolling 5 dice on every attack without having to worry about reloading or ammo. There's a trait that gives you yet another point of RoF in melee, so you really don't have to worry about missing. It also means you have real good crit chances, so anything that increases strong hit or crit damage are gonna be very valuable - knives have only crit damage 3, so you'll want to find ways to increase that. The other one I'm not 100% on, but basically, you want stuff that helps you Impair or gives other options to control dudes, and generally use an Infestor Whip. There's a few traits that give you strong hit options beyond crittin' a dude or increasing your crit damage. Infestor Whip gives you range, Strong Hit (5-6), and the Impairment tag, so you'd (assumably) grab one or two of those traits and spend your actions grabbing and blocking enemies with your weird tentacle whip, occasionally buffing your buds or doing weird tentacle whip poo poo to baddies when you strong hit. If you don't wanna roll with a tentacle whip, YOUR FISTS also have the Impairment tag. If you want to use a normal melee weapon, you won't be able to control as much, but nothing stops any character from grabbing some of those traits and using their strong hits for utility things here or there as well. Not everyone has to be a striker, as my group...steadfastly refuses to learn, hahaha.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 05:36
|
|
|
Some kind of hosed up bio-whip wielding melee controller with forced movement(?) and party buffs sound like my dream character. Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 12:54
|
|
|
Thanks for the advice, infestor whip and shield seems to be just along the lines of what the player wants - the control in Impair is pretty great and moving heavy cover from the front will keep them from getting pasted so easily. They're a big X-Com fan though so I'm anticipating more of a X-Com 2 Ranger playstyle than a D&D Fighter. First thing I'll be putting them through is Ghost Ship Carthage, but man I want to just throw in a few more creatures into the fights because wow they look sorta anemic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2018 22:20
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:I've been DMing Fragged Empire, but there hasn't been a ton of the tactical combat simply because my group enjoys vague freeform with skill rolls more. When it HAS come up, though, I find it can often start to get irritating when non-henchmen just don't go down. Last game they managed to crit drat near everywhere until finally actually killing the fucker. Anyone else having similar problems? And like, yes, the answer is "guys, you can aim!" but, well, players gonna be players (and use every action to attack no matter what). Late to this but if this is in the 1-5 resource difficulty range make sure you're reducing armor by 1 by default (to 2). A lot of players'll start the game with 3-4 crit weapons (or 2 crit if they don't grasp that the particle pistol sucks) which are pretty dicey as far as actually killing things against 3 armor quickly. Also keep in mind that crits still do endurance damage as well (because a strong hit is on top of whatever the original roll was), low-crit weapons usually have ok endurance damage so that'll get you there eventually if all else fails. Is Analyze supposed to be hard to hit with? I don't think I've seen one land yet in the two sessions I've run so far.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2018 05:57
|
|
|
01011001 posted:Is Analyze supposed to be hard to hit with? I don't think I've seen one land yet in the two sessions I've run so far. By default Analyze uses the 'Mind' weapon, which adds +int +tactical to your dice roll. It should be, in general, easier to hit with than a weapon if you've got the requisite skills.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 00:45
|
|
|
I guess I’m not seeing much of a difference mathematically between that and spray/sighted shot (which is +per+skill), and those two typically employ weapons with an attack bonus or extra ROF or both.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2018 20:34
|
|
|
So I just actually looked at the mech rules in Fragged Empire Hacked and the Twi-far mech build option is literally just 'You make your Faren emerge from your body as a giant energy being. surrounding you in a glowy aura and that's amazing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2018 08:40
|
|
|
Makes me want to run a Xenogears game actually
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2018 13:59
|
|
|
The Hacked mech rules need a little tweaking to use as-is - he released an update yesterday that reduced Defense across the board by 4, but for similar reasons you should probably reduce the thresholds for non-attack rolled maneuvers from 12 to 8 and remove the NPC +4 to hit. I'm a bit confused as to a good way to display parts/locations with weapons at a glance on the board. I guess I can fold some index cards around them or something? Also I don't really like the initiative system but that's a problem that's been solved several ways in other subsystems so whatever.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2018 16:13
|
|
|
does this game do grid based combat?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 00:58
|
|
|
Doorknob Slobber posted:does this game do grid based combat? Yup! Its default combat mode is basically a grid-based cover shooter. It also has a Theater of the Mind combat mode, which I've found useful for online play.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 02:05
|
|
|
Yeah, I tend to use a good amount of the theater of mind style and use full grid for more exciting and important fights.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 03:37
|
|
|
I'm going to have to check it out and see if I can get some people together to give it a try.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 04:38
|
|
|
Armor only protects against critical hits, right? Endurance damage gets whittled away at full weapon value for every hit? Also, anyone have some ideas for adding momentum to Empire? Would you use Focus as Conviction? Also, a question on cover. How do you get the first step (since take cover requires you already have one step of cover)? Is that always due to terrain?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 11:59
|
|
|
Terrain or limited vision (like smoke). Also, yes, armor only affects crit damage. That way it’s more possible to defeat high-armor enemies. 01011001 fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Aug 28, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 13:07
|
|
|
There are also a number of utility items that give cover, either constant directional cover (the Large Combat Shield), immobility-based stealth cover (Legion Ghost Cloak), or deployable terrain cover (Mobile Cover Field and Mobile Stasis Wall).
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 15:39
|
|
|
Smoke grenades cost 0 resources, so at low levels it's quite reasonable to fill your pockets with them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 15:43
|
|
|
Ratoslov posted:Smoke grenades cost 0 resources, so at low levels it's quite reasonable to fill your pockets with them. Kaltorans should always do this.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 16:06
|
|
|
And due to being Small, you can cram two of them into an equipment slot! An excellent investment at early level, basically a no-brainer for Kaltorans and highly recommended for anyone else.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 16:11
|
|
|
Pieces of Peace posted:And due to being Small, you can cram two of them into an equipment slot! Six of them, really, because a Smoke Grenade weapon has 3 clips. Make an all Kaltoran squad and Minnie-May that poo poo everywhere. Flashbangs (dummy grenades) are another good candidate for filling your pockets, since they're also 0 cost.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 17:27
|
|
|
Pieces of Peace posted:There are also a number of utility items that give cover, either constant directional cover (the Large Combat Shield), immobility-based stealth cover (Legion Ghost Cloak), or deployable terrain cover (Mobile Cover Field and Mobile Stasis Wall). I thought one of the conditions of no cover is that you can't get cover from equipment or traits? Or is that only when it says "+1 cover step"?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 17:37
|
|
|
Crakkerjakk posted:I thought one of the conditions of no cover is that you can't get cover from equipment or traits? Or is that only when it says "+1 cover step"? Anything that increases your cover step requires cover to begin with unless it specifies otherwise; the Legion Ghost Cloak, for instance, says “Gain Light Cover (+2) or +1 Cover Step if you do not move for your turn.” The Large Combat Shield specifies that it gives Heavy Front Cover (not +steps). The Stealth Suit outfit variation also specifies it always gives you Light Cover or +1 step.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 18:13
|
|
|
Okay, assuming I wanted to make Empire more star wars-y, porting momentum into it. Do I basically just steal Actions from Kingdom and Aeternum and replace similar actions from Empire that don't have momentum effects? And add some momentum effects to various melee options pretty much?
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 18:18
|
|
|
It's unfortunately a little more complicated than that because the Kingdom/Seas/Aeternum action sets draw far fewer distinctions between melee and ranged attacks - which is totally fine in the context of those systems but gets a little weird with Empire and its strictness regarding RoF, different kinds of each attack, etc.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 18:42
|
|
|
01011001 posted:It's unfortunately a little more complicated than that because the Kingdom/Seas/Aeternum action sets draw far fewer distinctions between melee and ranged attacks - which is totally fine in the context of those systems but gets a little weird with Empire and its strictness regarding RoF, different kinds of each attack, etc. Ah. Thanks for the response. I figure I'll just run stock Empire a bit with my group and then once I have a better feel for the system see what I can import from Kingdom & co. Still trying to wrap my head around Empire currently (obviously).
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 19:15
|
|
|
Fragged Empire is much more Mass Effect then it is Star Wars, if that helps.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 21:33
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:Fragged Empire is much more Mass Effect then it is Star Wars, if that helps. Especially being a cover shooter.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 22:26
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:Fragged Empire is much more Mass Effect then it is Star Wars, if that helps. Right. My question was "what can I do to make it more Star Wars with the existing tools". And the answer seems to be it's complicated.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2018 23:42
|
|
|
Crakkerjakk posted:Right. My question was "what can I do to make it more Star Wars with the existing tools". And the answer seems to be it's complicated. Might be easier to start with Kingdom or Aeturnum and add in laser-guns.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2018 01:26
|
|
|
There's the other question of; what do you want from a Star Wars RPG? Even the official one took three books to cover options.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2018 03:21
|
|
|
Ratoslov posted:Might be easier to start with Kingdom or Aeturnum and add in laser-guns. Seas might be a decent starting point too because it has more ship-emphasis. But yeah, it’s really a question of what you’re looking for. The Fragged games are a little more granular and non-abstract than I’d probably think I’d want in a Star Wars game but all of the existing ones are gear porn for days so what do I know.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2018 04:49
|
|
|
Cassa posted:There's the other question of; what do you want from a Star Wars RPG? Even the official one took three books to cover options. Not really looking for a stars wars RPG, as in the IP. Just combat where melee is more of an option. And I tend to like heavy psionics games, but I think protagonist archive mostly has me covered there?
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2018 11:41
|
|
|
Yeah, heavy melee is never really going to be an option for FE proper unless you go all-in on it, which takes a lot of resources and knowing how the system shakes out. And stacking armor so you can afford to not be in cover.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2018 14:53
|
|
|
Question on equipment. What happens when you add mods and variations that require multiple spare time points? Example: say I'm just starting a game, and I want to buy a gun. I decide on a pistol (cost 1), add the burst spores variety (+1, but with a note that says cost spare time roll 10t?), And then also add an extended clip mod (cost spare time roll 12t). Is that 2 resources, and 2 spare time points that I don't have to roll for because it's at the start of the game? Or are the burst spores "choose between +1 resource or 10t?". If I have the 10t and the 12t, is that 2 spare time points, or just the higher roll?
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2018 17:58
|
|
|
It takes two spare time points and 2 resources. In chargen you get I think 2+level spare time items/variations/mods of 14t or less - in this case you’d be using two of those.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2018 18:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 5, 2024 21:27 |
|
|
Each time you roll anything with a #t cost in game you’re going to have to spend a Spare Time Point just to make the roll, so you have to spend a point to get it in chargen. Anything with a resources + STP cost is usually slightly better than something of the same RES cost alone.
|
|
#
?
Aug 29, 2018 18:10
|
|