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If you have an all stars without Dan, Will, and Derrick in the same house then no thanks.
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Sep 21, 2017 14:52
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STAC Goat posted:From the way they edited this whole season they'd probably love Cody and Jess back unless there's some kind of backlash against him winning AFP (which I don't expect there to be, but Audrey was speaking out against him mid season so there's a chance if she wants to make a thing of it). But I think Cody is probably glad to be done with it. Cody and Alex are production liabilities. Sure, CBS has to sweep a lot of things under the rug every season, but bringing any of them back would get a lot of people to revisit things that were overlooked on the season of Paul dominating every aspect. Jody might have been a lock for Amazing Race, but I'm pretty sure CBS lawyers are going to nix any plan to send a violent bigot on a trip around the world. Jessica could return and serve as a proxy for Cody - or to get the scoop on their break up. I can see Mark coming back, since Josh seemed to be a unique trigger for him, and you could probably trust him with Josh not being around. As a winner, and entertaining presence, we will likely see Josh return to host a "Who is the biggest meatball?" competition. I don't think the fans are going to look back fondly at any of the cast outside of Jody and Kevin, and no one outside of those 3 would draw viewers.
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Sep 21, 2017 15:06
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I didn't keep up with the feeds, so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how is Alex a production liability?
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Sep 21, 2017 15:38
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Alex? What makes her a liability? Mark said numerous times he has anger issues outside the house so I don't think Josh was a unique case for him. Josh was just the guy pushing him (and was really good at it). And he had blowups with Christmas and that weird one at the end with Matt. I mean, Mark's an immature kid who can grow up but I don't know that he's worth the trouble because he's not much of a player or character beyond "The Incredible Sulk." Unless you're really fishing or someone in production loves him. No single HG draws viewers. That feels like an odd concept to me. They're BB players, not celebrities or stars. Will or Dan don't draw me to a season alone. Big Brother is about the game and that's about the cast and that's a combination of numerous personalities and players. There seems like as many potential candidates in BB19 as BB18, 17, or 16. And I don't think this season will have the lasting stink of BB15, especially now that Paul has lost. I just don't think this season is all that "controversial" or in need of being covered up. The worst stuff was Cody's stuff that they covered up and ignored and the fans all started making excuses for once he became their anti-hero. Otherwise like one time Paul dressed as a snake to mock Dom, put on a black mask, and said "black face". And for 2 hours one day people bullied the bullies. It was an ugly season but it wasn't a controversial one except from the hardcore fans who were just angry about Paul having such an easy time of things. Don't bring Paul, Cody, and Jess back and you probably avoid most of the problems. Its a bad season, but its not a BAD (BB9, BB15) season. Your Taint posted:I didn't keep up with the feeds, so forgive me if this is a stupid question, but how is Alex a production liability? I'm at a loss there. She hit Jason a lot but it was brother-sister fighting stuff. Jason and Josh wrestled all the time, Jason and Christmas roughhoused hence the foot, Mark was always grabbing and lifting people, Maven were always fighting, and Jess kept sticking her finger up people's butts. So I'm not sure why Alex would stand out.
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Sep 21, 2017 15:38
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STAC Goat posted:Personally I can't really stomach rewarding people who behaved badly and treated people badly with a prize like this. That's my thing and its obviously subjective about how I feel about the things he said and did. Everyone is free to judge and react as they wish - you, me, Audrey, whoever. Like I said, I don't really expect her to push it or it to become a thing. The broader attention on this stuff tends to be driven by how the BB fanbase feels and the BB fanbase is very selective about what they're offended about and made the decision to do a 180 on Cody awhile ago. Which is why they made excuses for Cody and ignored Audrey's pleas when she did speak up. But its out there so who knows? This was really the season that made me realize just how crazy the BB fanbase can be. You already mentioned the absurd Cody/Jess apologism (including the deluded campaign to give Jess the hex when it was clear that Cody was about to come back and the game would just be stalled for a month), but I also found the seething hatred for Raven to be very disturbing. I mostly saw this stuff on the Big Brother subreddit, but it seemed to be everywhere in some form or another. People online seemed obsessed with how much they hated Raven and wanting to see her life destroyed outside of the game, and why? Even if *everything* she said about herself was a complete lie (probably not the case), who was she harming? She was a kooky character that didn't play the game much but at least contributed more to the show than Matt, and (as far as I know) wasn't a fundamentally mean or bigoted person. The "worst" thing she did was go after Cody the night that literally everyone went after Cody. I never saw Survivor fans try to ruin the lives of the tall-tale-tellers like Coach, Debbie, or Phillip. At "best," people are waging war with a generally harmless pathological liar with some actually disease(s) who was one of many that played a bad game this season, and at worst people are attacking a mentally ill person who was exploited by even being cast on this silly game show. And while I think the Jody apologism and Raven hatred are the worst examples of the BB fanbase, I also think the general glee with Paul's reaction to his loss last night is also really strange. Paul is not a Russell Hantz-- he's not a grown adult man that individually berated and humiliated people and destroyed people's belongings. Paul's a young 20-something kid who got weirdly good at manipulating people in a game about manipulating people, and in the process went slightly too far and overall contributed to the general meanspiritedness of the house this season. I believe Paul when he says he genuinely liked these people and formed actual friendships, he just lacked the self-awareness to finish out the endgame (largely because he's still pretty young and never seen the show). I think it's fine to be happy that Paul lost, but being so happy that he was so crushed by the loss is a little weird given that Paul himself is very far from the worst person to ever be cast on the show (he's not even the worst person cast on the season). If you were a young twenty-something and gave up two summers of your life and came within one vote of 500k both times, would you handle it any better?
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Sep 21, 2017 15:48
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What's wrong with Christmas and Jason 
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Sep 21, 2017 15:55
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For what it's worth, I think production actually loved this season. Because the show is edited in real time, they *like* seasons where one player or one alliance is dominating the entire time, because they can tell the story of the season better if they know roughly where it's going. It's been said that production's favorite recent season in 16, and this is definitely the season that most closely resembles 16. Between the easy-to-tell narrative, the constant fights which played better on TV than on the feeds, and a few players that gave "good" (specifically, loud and cheesy) confessionals like Josh, Paul, and Alex going far into the game, production is probably more than satisfied. Trying to predict returnees is probably a fool's errand because it depends on what "type" of player they need more of. Kevin and Jason could probably both come back, for example, but they might be redundant in a season where Donny is also returning. I think the only sure-thing returnees are Alex and Josh (and even Josh is questionable since they don't bring winners back too often), but I think pretty much everyone who made jury + Jessica is a possible returnee except for Matt and maybe Raven.
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Sep 21, 2017 15:59
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I wouldn't mind seeing Christmas back next season with a healed foot.
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Sep 21, 2017 15:59
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Faustian Bargain posted:What's wrong with Christmas and Jason Xmas can be a "bitch" according to the cat ladies but to me she just seems self confidence. Jason is a bit bigoted but in a way that I feel can be a bit more of understandable due to living in bf nowhere Texas on a farm. Raven is going to be wreaked by the cat ladies today and a bunch of the big feed people.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:18
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Raven was by far my least favorite cast member. Not only was she completely incompetent at the game, but her zany persona was grating. I liked her better on the feeds when she was just a dumb normal girl who mumbled a lot, at least she had a normal voice.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:22
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Robnoxious posted:I'm not sure it's as clear cut until we get after-interviews but I really think Josh's goodbye messages stirred the jury pot to his favor. It got them talking and comparing notes which they failed to do all season within the house. Sodomeow posted:You are out of your mind if you actually think Paul deserved to win this season. Its possible to be good at getting to the end, and still play a poo poo game. STAC Goat posted:Interestingly the most recent season of Survivor changed the Jury format to allow an open back-and-forth conversation that could have helped Paul here. It was clear from the Jury questions Paul was in trouble and he seemed to be picking up on that, but then he just went into his rehearsed final comments. If it was a more open discussion like the last Survivor season then there probably would have been a point where someone said "Paul, did you know Jason was getting backdoored and Alex was the target?" and Paul would have had the chance to wise up and come clean.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:26
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Everything about Raven made me uncomfortable, from the way the fans obsessed over her to her super special victim status in the house. I hope her life gets better, I hope people (including the HGs, some of whom I'm sure will see blood in the water knowing the fans hate her) leave her alone and I hope they stop casting people just to humiliate them. But I actually loved the overdramatic DRs and the way she went from yelling at people out the door to a high kick, a cartwheel and a big smiley HI JULIE.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:38
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Fast Luck posted:I think in Big Brother it's probably really hard to flip any jurors because it all happens so fast and is over so soon, all on live TV. Those Survivor jury segments are already longer just with what makes it to air, but before editing they're probably how long? A couple hours? Most of the Jury work is definitely done before they leave the house. Josh's goodbye messages might have helped but even without them they were always going to compare notes and it remains insane that Paul expected everyone to lie on his behalf or seems to have deluded himself into believing his own lies. If Josh's goodbye messages helped its probably more in that they made him come across as more honest and straightforward. I think Alex probably was speaking to that kind of thing with her "I'm voting for the person who stabbed me in the front, not the back" comment. And Mark seemed to react positively to Josh's answer to his question that he didn't always feel good about his game actions. Could Paul have changed their minds or someone else's last night? I don't know. Its definitely harder to do in 20 minutes than it is do over the course of an entire summer as he should have. But if Alex or Mark or someone was sitting there asking for Paul to come clean about his behavior and gameplay they didn't get it. Who knows if that changed anything but it was Paul's last chance. If there had been the open format Survivor had I don't see how Alex and Jason don't say "All these people say you were in on our evictions." Paul would have had to either triple down on the lie in the face of a Jury who mostly all knew the truth or come clean. And coming clean and doing damage control was probably his best bet. So in this case I thing the abbreviated BB Jury format might have hurt him and a longer/open Survivor one might have helped air stuff out and give him time to process and adjust. But he should have done it a year ago when he lost for much the same reason.
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Sep 21, 2017 16:45
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If Paul would've been honest on his goodbye messages then he would've gained a lot of good will. Doubling down on not getting blood on your hands is insanely dumb ESPECIALLY since with everyone comparing notes, he had all of the blood on his hands. Should've owned that snake status once he bounced people.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:26
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I usually don't care that much about what happens outside the house but I'm genuinely curious to hear what he says about this. Because either he genuinely expected the Jury not to compare notes and everyone to just cover for him INCLUDING Josh or he actually bought into his own lies and really thinks Josh was lying. I don't see a third option and both of those are crazy.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:34
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mancalamania posted:he just lacked the self-awareness to finish out the endgame Ok season, dumb twists. Josh will be on the show again, guaranteed. You know a season is mediocre when you only watch the feeds for about 15 minutes total in three months... I blame Jody. And Grodner. edit: OH. And the bullying. Paul clearly orchestrated it. I know Josh Pots n pansed it, but Paul was really the ringleader of bullying all season, and he got caught.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:39
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That's another thing I think might have hurt Paul. Paul did a LOT of poo poo talking and boasting about how he was playing everyone. He bashed Maven and Jalex to Joshmas. He bashed Joshmas and Jalex to Maven. He bashed Maven and Joshmas to Jalex. Maven were deluded and convinced themselves they were Paul's one true love. Christmas and Josh keyed into early and just gambled that Paul would choose them. But Jason and Alex bought in but are smart enough to realize once Paul betrayed them all the poo poo he was saying to them is probably poo poo he was saying ABOUT them. There's a ton of pride wrapped up in that and its what Paul doesn't get. He sees "blood" as some technical "I didn't vote against you or nominate you" thing. He doesn't get that Alex and Jason just plain feel used and embarrassed because of how much they trusted him and bought into his lies. And a big part of that is them having weeks to sit back and think about how much Paul was laughing with Josh and Christmas about how stupid Jason and Alex were. Which they know Paul is capable of because he did it with them. Then you get like Mark who is mad that Josh called him out... but there's people telling you "Paul was encouraging him to do it and high fiving him about it." Then you have Mark saying something like "At least Josh said it to your face" and its a weird sort of backwards way to win respect for him because of how much you're bothered that Paul was laughing behind your back and manipulating you.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:52
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Im satisfied with that outcome. Paul seems unable to shake the "used car salesman" routine and being two seasons in he overplayed his hand. I never watched the feeds or anything so I have no idea about the minutiae of the interactions he had with people but based on the edits he came off as a fairly transparent snake. If you drag the losers to the bitter end you better ensure that they have no chance of winning comps come final 2 time. Josh outclassed Paul with his retarded antics somehow! Im also exicted for Celebrity Big Brother so here's hoping we get a 2017 version of the "Surreal Life" 
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Sep 21, 2017 19:07
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BhindiBhaji Boogie posted:Im satisfied with that outcome. Paul seems unable to shake the "used car salesman" routine and being two seasons in he overplayed his hand. I never watched the feeds or anything so I have no idea about the minutiae of the interactions he had with people but based on the edits he came off as a fairly transparent snake. If you drag the losers to the bitter end you better ensure that they have no chance of winning comps come final 2 time. Josh outclassed Paul with his retarded antics somehow! Im also exicted for Celebrity Big Brother so here's hoping we get a 2017 version of the "Surreal Life" Paul was overly friendly to just about everyone who wasn't Cody (because Cody is awful) but Paul's method of being friendly often meant indulging in trash talking others behind their back. You didn't miss much from the feeds besides Cody being an unrepentant bigot, kind of a legit psychopath, and Jess kind of being a psycho person who likes to stick her fingers up people's cracks for no reason.
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Sep 21, 2017 19:42
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Also if you watched the feeds Josh calmed down a lot during Mark's last week in the house and the two of them got along really well, so his final moments with Josh weren't of him making his life a nightmare.
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Sep 21, 2017 19:53
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I think Mark also kind of recognized that Josh was correct in a lot of the stuff he was calling Mark out on. The pots and pans died weeks earlier (because DR told Josh he had to because they were worried Cody would snap). And Elena and Jody were gone so there was no one left to reinforce Mark's anger and worst instincts. And honestly, besides the hot sauce fight most of Mark's drama including with Josh was all about Cody, Jess, and Elena and their bad behavior. So with them gone the drama between him and Josh was kind of gone. Paul was basically a used car salesman to Cody too in Week 1. Cody just wouldn't talk to him or give him anything and then the backdoor. But oddly even after that Paul kept doing what a lot of people thought was him setting up Cody to be a potentially ally in the game. And even Cody seemed vaguely receptive to it at times. That all kind of imploded with the Jess/Hex stuff though.
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Sep 21, 2017 21:35
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When do we get to find out about the terrible celebrities they got to go into the house for a month
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Sep 21, 2017 22:27
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Popero posted:When do we get to find out about the terrible celebrities they got to go into the house for a month "celebrities"
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Sep 21, 2017 22:31
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Honestly you could probably just look at the cast of Battle of the Network Stars, and the last few seasons of Dancing with the Stars, filling in the gaps with Celebrity Apprentice casts and have a pretty comprehensive list of who is probably going to be on the show.
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Sep 21, 2017 22:32
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Popero posted:When do we get to find out about the terrible celebrities they got to go into the house for a month Ugh if it's going to be a condensed version I won't even think about checking it out.
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Sep 21, 2017 22:40
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Yea it'll be awful poo poo like Arsenio Hall, Tootie from the Facts of Life, Perez Hilton, That guy that verbally abused his wife on Amazing Race, Ug from Salute your Shorts, whatever not dead Diffrent Strokes cast member they can find, etc.
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Sep 21, 2017 22:56
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My favorite is when people from other reality shows get billed as celebrities and mixed in with people who actually had a semblance of a career.
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Sep 21, 2017 22:59
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I'm really hoping that its just a mix of people from Survivor, Amazing Race, whatever CBS soap operas are, Drew Carey, and Frankie. Maybe they'll make someone from the Star Trek show play as a very misguided cross promotional tactic. Probably one of the aliens out of makeup. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 23:05
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sportsgenius86 posted:Yea it'll be awful poo poo like Arsenio Hall, Tootie from the Facts of Life, Perez Hilton, That guy that verbally abused his wife on Amazing Race, Ug from Salute your Shorts, whatever not dead Diffrent Strokes cast member they can find, etc. I think that may be generous, actually. There may be one or two people we maybe have heard of and a bunch of youtube stars.
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Sep 21, 2017 23:06
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STAC Goat posted:I'm really hoping that its just a mix of people from Survivor, Amazing Race, whatever CBS soap operas are, Drew Carey, and Frankie. The thing about soap people and Star Trek is that taking a month off is a huge ask for any actor that is currently employed.
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Sep 21, 2017 23:13
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There's gotta be a dead soap character just waiting to be recast on a new soap opera as a face transplanted character, right? But fine. Amazing Race, Survivor, Drew Carey, Frankie, and... do they have an ET show? Can Mario Lopez show up? Gayle King and Charlie Rose could show up and make uncomfortable sexual comments. Boomer Esiason and Bill Cowher? I mean, Deion Sanders is a CBS employee. They're loaded with options.
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Sep 21, 2017 23:21
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Can we get some pro wrestlers and old porn stars in the house?
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Sep 21, 2017 23:41
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I really don't understand these celebrity seasons. When the celebrities are d-list garbage, what's really the draw as compared to like another BBOTT?
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Sep 21, 2017 23:43
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STAC Goat posted:There's gotta be a dead soap character just waiting to be recast on a new soap opera as a face transplanted character, right? Boomer has a daily radio show for CBS over in NYC.
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Sep 21, 2017 23:44
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Oh God, he does it alone now that Carton ran a ponzi scheme! I didn't think of that. That's gotta be hell even for sports radio. Stop shooting down my nonsense suggestions, Toasty. We all know its Deion, Drew, and Frankie.
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Sep 22, 2017 00:00
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STAC Goat posted:Oh God, he does it alone now that Carton ran a ponzi scheme! I didn't think of that. That's gotta be hell even for sports radio. Doesn't Deion do a football show on weekends?  Also, I would hope they lined up guess co-hosts for Boomer until a full time replacement is found.
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Sep 22, 2017 00:05
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Who doesn't have a sports radio show? I once had a sports radio show. If you're a former NFL star with a job as a sports announcer and you don't do a radio show you're just not trying. Prime Time's a two sports stud and will just record them from the DR. Edit: On a vaguely serious note I feel like any "All Stars" conversation should deal with the fact that the "Revengers" probably gave us the baseline for such a cast. Frankie, James, Nicole, Caleb, Day, Victor, Austin, Pectacular, and Dan. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 22, 2017 00:08
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STAC Goat posted:Who doesn't have a sports radio show? I once had a sports radio show. If you're a former NFL star with a job as a sports announcer and you don't do a radio show you're just not trying. Except for Dan, that's not really an all star cast. If they're gonna do all stars, go balls out. Will, Derrick, Dan, Paul (so he can see he's not nearly as good as he thinks he is), Rachel, Christmas with a healthy foot, Nicole, etc.
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Sep 22, 2017 02:07
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I want Alex Jones on there
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Sep 22, 2017 02:36
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Your Taint posted:Except for Dan, that's not really an all star cast. Your name isn't Allison Grodner. When it is, see if that's still your opinion.
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Sep 22, 2017 04:05
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